MP3 Players v MiniDisc

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by John, Dec 28, 2004.

  1. John

    John Guest

    Hello.

    Today I have been transferring lots of CDs of my sisters onto a MP3
    Zen thing she got for Christmas which was quite an experience.

    It is a pretty remarkable gadget and I am pretty amazed by the amount
    of songs it can hold - 40GB!!! I am still a big MiniDisc fan, but I
    believe these devices are a serious threat. They're not quite as
    refined as MiniDisc, however they are easier to use and more navigable
    in my opinion. It is also easier to transfer files than MiniDisc and
    you don't have a stupid restriction limiting you to 3 downloads.

    If I was to advise the Sony people of what to do to help keep MiniDisc
    in the picture, it would be to make the things easier to use without
    the small fiddley buttons. Also give them a big backlit LCD with
    better information, and to make them more navigable. Also to be able
    to digitally upload PCM quality material you have recorded on your
    MiniDisc for the new Hi-MD devices would be a good idea. And, how
    about an option whereby you can save just audio tracks to the Hi-MD in
    Atrac or Atrac3 format, or to be able to transfer just MP3 files that
    would also work and be playable on the MiniDisc in MP3 format, not
    converting to Atrac? You could have a device that was both a MiniDisc
    and an MP3 player not just one were you have to convert from MP3 to
    Atrac.

    The only negatives I can think of about this new MP3 gadget she got
    would be the lack of a Stop button, this is definitely an annoyance,
    and also the size. It is bigger and heavier than my Sony MZ-N1, and
    the battery life isn't anywhere near as good, though it is still more
    than you would need for a day or two before you recharge the thing.
    Also with MiniDisc you can record on the units from a line in/optical
    or mic, whereas the MP3 devices you just transfer files to, there
    doesn't seem to be many that you can actually make your own recordings
    with.

    Perhaps it would be an idea for Sony to make a Hi-MD unit that also
    had a built in Hard-Drive? That way they would be able to take some
    of the portable device share from companies like Apple, Creative etc.

    In the future you would also have to look at adding wireless features
    and being able to connect your portable audio device to the internet
    to buy and download new music directly to it while on the move.

    Both the MP3 player my sister has and the new Hi-MD units can store
    other data files on them besides the music, but the MP3 players do
    have a much greater capacity 40GB to 1GB. That is a colossal
    difference. One device for all your music. The next decision I will
    have to make will be what I get after my MZ-N1? Do I go to Hi-MD or
    MP3 player with internal hard disk?

    I think MiniDisc will continue to have a niche market especially among
    people making their own recordings, however they will need to listen
    to what their users want as well as what others want from an audio
    device. If the format is to continue it will have to evolve even more
    to compete and survive.

    John
     
    John, Dec 28, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. John

    The One Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello.
    >
    > Today I have been transferring lots of CDs of my sisters onto a MP3
    > Zen thing she got for Christmas which was quite an experience.
    >
    > It is a pretty remarkable gadget and I am pretty amazed by the amount
    > of songs it can hold - 40GB!!! I am still a big MiniDisc fan, but I
    > believe these devices are a serious threat. They're not quite as
    > refined as MiniDisc, however they are easier to use and more navigable
    > in my opinion. It is also easier to transfer files than MiniDisc and
    > you don't have a stupid restriction limiting you to 3 downloads.
    >
    > If I was to advise the Sony people of what to do to help keep MiniDisc
    > in the picture, it would be to make the things easier to use without
    > the small fiddley buttons. Also give them a big backlit LCD with
    > better information, and to make them more navigable. Also to be able
    > to digitally upload PCM quality material you have recorded on your
    > MiniDisc for the new Hi-MD devices would be a good idea. And, how
    > about an option whereby you can save just audio tracks to the Hi-MD in
    > Atrac or Atrac3 format, or to be able to transfer just MP3 files that
    > would also work and be playable on the MiniDisc in MP3 format, not
    > converting to Atrac? You could have a device that was both a MiniDisc
    > and an MP3 player not just one were you have to convert from MP3 to
    > Atrac.
    >
    > The only negatives I can think of about this new MP3 gadget she got
    > would be the lack of a Stop button, this is definitely an annoyance,
    > and also the size. It is bigger and heavier than my Sony MZ-N1, and
    > the battery life isn't anywhere near as good, though it is still more
    > than you would need for a day or two before you recharge the thing.
    > Also with MiniDisc you can record on the units from a line in/optical
    > or mic, whereas the MP3 devices you just transfer files to, there
    > doesn't seem to be many that you can actually make your own recordings
    > with.
    >
    > Perhaps it would be an idea for Sony to make a Hi-MD unit that also
    > had a built in Hard-Drive? That way they would be able to take some
    > of the portable device share from companies like Apple, Creative etc.
    >
    > In the future you would also have to look at adding wireless features
    > and being able to connect your portable audio device to the internet
    > to buy and download new music directly to it while on the move.
    >
    > Both the MP3 player my sister has and the new Hi-MD units can store
    > other data files on them besides the music, but the MP3 players do
    > have a much greater capacity 40GB to 1GB. That is a colossal
    > difference. One device for all your music. The next decision I will
    > have to make will be what I get after my MZ-N1? Do I go to Hi-MD or
    > MP3 player with internal hard disk?
    >
    > I think MiniDisc will continue to have a niche market especially among
    > people making their own recordings, however they will need to listen
    > to what their users want as well as what others want from an audio
    > device. If the format is to continue it will have to evolve even more
    > to compete and survive.
    >
    > John
    >

    I would go for a MP3 player anyday, the fact that all my collection of songs
    can be held on the MP3 player memory makes changing a 15 track minidisc
    frequently to find a liked track redundant.
     
    The One, Dec 28, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. John

    Kelly Pierce Guest

    John,

    I do a lot of field recording of events here in Chicago. In November, I was
    recording a talk at a bookstore and sitting next to me in the front row was
    someone I know from the local public radio station. he had what seemed the
    next generation of recorders: a device that used solid state memory cards
    that transferred audio files to his computer for editing. The files
    transferred instantly, like any data file and unlike the real time transfer
    needed for minidisc. One card was about two gigabytes in size and recorded
    slightly more than five hours at high quality. he didn't know how much it
    cost but I learned later it was about a thousand dollars. Last year the
    flash recorders were selling for a lot more and the cards held much less.
    I'll still be using minidisc for a few years yet but clearly this is the
    future for field recording. no moving parts and immediate, direct transfer.

    Kelly


    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello.
    >
    > Today I have been transferring lots of CDs of my sisters onto a MP3
    > Zen thing she got for Christmas which was quite an experience.
    >
    > It is a pretty remarkable gadget and I am pretty amazed by the amount
    > of songs it can hold - 40GB!!! I am still a big MiniDisc fan, but I
    > believe these devices are a serious threat. They're not quite as
    > refined as MiniDisc, however they are easier to use and more navigable
    > in my opinion. It is also easier to transfer files than MiniDisc and
    > you don't have a stupid restriction limiting you to 3 downloads.
    >
    > If I was to advise the Sony people of what to do to help keep MiniDisc
    > in the picture, it would be to make the things easier to use without
    > the small fiddley buttons. Also give them a big backlit LCD with
    > better information, and to make them more navigable. Also to be able
    > to digitally upload PCM quality material you have recorded on your
    > MiniDisc for the new Hi-MD devices would be a good idea. And, how
    > about an option whereby you can save just audio tracks to the Hi-MD in
    > Atrac or Atrac3 format, or to be able to transfer just MP3 files that
    > would also work and be playable on the MiniDisc in MP3 format, not
    > converting to Atrac? You could have a device that was both a MiniDisc
    > and an MP3 player not just one were you have to convert from MP3 to
    > Atrac.
    >
    > The only negatives I can think of about this new MP3 gadget she got
    > would be the lack of a Stop button, this is definitely an annoyance,
    > and also the size. It is bigger and heavier than my Sony MZ-N1, and
    > the battery life isn't anywhere near as good, though it is still more
    > than you would need for a day or two before you recharge the thing.
    > Also with MiniDisc you can record on the units from a line in/optical
    > or mic, whereas the MP3 devices you just transfer files to, there
    > doesn't seem to be many that you can actually make your own recordings
    > with.
    >
    > Perhaps it would be an idea for Sony to make a Hi-MD unit that also
    > had a built in Hard-Drive? That way they would be able to take some
    > of the portable device share from companies like Apple, Creative etc.
    >
    > In the future you would also have to look at adding wireless features
    > and being able to connect your portable audio device to the internet
    > to buy and download new music directly to it while on the move.
    >
    > Both the MP3 player my sister has and the new Hi-MD units can store
    > other data files on them besides the music, but the MP3 players do
    > have a much greater capacity 40GB to 1GB. That is a colossal
    > difference. One device for all your music. The next decision I will
    > have to make will be what I get after my MZ-N1? Do I go to Hi-MD or
    > MP3 player with internal hard disk?
    >
    > I think MiniDisc will continue to have a niche market especially among
    > people making their own recordings, however they will need to listen
    > to what their users want as well as what others want from an audio
    > device. If the format is to continue it will have to evolve even more
    > to compete and survive.
    >
    > John
    >
    >
     
    Kelly Pierce, Dec 29, 2004
    #3
  4. John

    Citimouse Guest

    Both IPOD and MD serves their own purposes and each have their pros and
    cons. What happen if you IPOD battery goes flat? You will have to charge it.
    For MD, just buy a battery and continue. You can transfer files from PC to
    IPOD easily but not for SonicStage. The list goes on.

    So, this is a never ending argument.


    "Kelly Pierce" <> wrote in message
    news:wLpAd.6119$...
    > John,
    >
    > I do a lot of field recording of events here in Chicago. In November, I

    was
    > recording a talk at a bookstore and sitting next to me in the front row

    was
    > someone I know from the local public radio station. he had what seemed

    the
    > next generation of recorders: a device that used solid state memory cards
    > that transferred audio files to his computer for editing. The files
    > transferred instantly, like any data file and unlike the real time

    transfer
    > needed for minidisc. One card was about two gigabytes in size and

    recorded
    > slightly more than five hours at high quality. he didn't know how much it
    > cost but I learned later it was about a thousand dollars. Last year the
    > flash recorders were selling for a lot more and the cards held much less.
    > I'll still be using minidisc for a few years yet but clearly this is the
    > future for field recording. no moving parts and immediate, direct

    transfer.
    >
    > Kelly
    >
    >
    > "John" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hello.
    > >
    > > Today I have been transferring lots of CDs of my sisters onto a MP3
    > > Zen thing she got for Christmas which was quite an experience.
    > >
    > > It is a pretty remarkable gadget and I am pretty amazed by the amount
    > > of songs it can hold - 40GB!!! I am still a big MiniDisc fan, but I
    > > believe these devices are a serious threat. They're not quite as
    > > refined as MiniDisc, however they are easier to use and more navigable
    > > in my opinion. It is also easier to transfer files than MiniDisc and
    > > you don't have a stupid restriction limiting you to 3 downloads.
    > >
    > > If I was to advise the Sony people of what to do to help keep MiniDisc
    > > in the picture, it would be to make the things easier to use without
    > > the small fiddley buttons. Also give them a big backlit LCD with
    > > better information, and to make them more navigable. Also to be able
    > > to digitally upload PCM quality material you have recorded on your
    > > MiniDisc for the new Hi-MD devices would be a good idea. And, how
    > > about an option whereby you can save just audio tracks to the Hi-MD in
    > > Atrac or Atrac3 format, or to be able to transfer just MP3 files that
    > > would also work and be playable on the MiniDisc in MP3 format, not
    > > converting to Atrac? You could have a device that was both a MiniDisc
    > > and an MP3 player not just one were you have to convert from MP3 to
    > > Atrac.
    > >
    > > The only negatives I can think of about this new MP3 gadget she got
    > > would be the lack of a Stop button, this is definitely an annoyance,
    > > and also the size. It is bigger and heavier than my Sony MZ-N1, and
    > > the battery life isn't anywhere near as good, though it is still more
    > > than you would need for a day or two before you recharge the thing.
    > > Also with MiniDisc you can record on the units from a line in/optical
    > > or mic, whereas the MP3 devices you just transfer files to, there
    > > doesn't seem to be many that you can actually make your own recordings
    > > with.
    > >
    > > Perhaps it would be an idea for Sony to make a Hi-MD unit that also
    > > had a built in Hard-Drive? That way they would be able to take some
    > > of the portable device share from companies like Apple, Creative etc.
    > >
    > > In the future you would also have to look at adding wireless features
    > > and being able to connect your portable audio device to the internet
    > > to buy and download new music directly to it while on the move.
    > >
    > > Both the MP3 player my sister has and the new Hi-MD units can store
    > > other data files on them besides the music, but the MP3 players do
    > > have a much greater capacity 40GB to 1GB. That is a colossal
    > > difference. One device for all your music. The next decision I will
    > > have to make will be what I get after my MZ-N1? Do I go to Hi-MD or
    > > MP3 player with internal hard disk?
    > >
    > > I think MiniDisc will continue to have a niche market especially among
    > > people making their own recordings, however they will need to listen
    > > to what their users want as well as what others want from an audio
    > > device. If the format is to continue it will have to evolve even more
    > > to compete and survive.
    > >
    > > John
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Citimouse, Dec 29, 2004
    #4
  5. John

    Thor Guest

    "Kelly Pierce" <> wrote in message
    news:wLpAd.6119$...
    > John,
    >
    > I do a lot of field recording of events here in Chicago. In November, I
    > was recording a talk at a bookstore and sitting next to me in the front
    > row was someone I know from the local public radio station. he had what
    > seemed the next generation of recorders: a device that used solid state
    > memory cards that transferred audio files to his computer for editing.
    > The files transferred instantly, like any data file and unlike the real
    > time transfer needed for minidisc. One card was about two gigabytes in
    > size and recorded slightly more than five hours at high quality. he
    > didn't know how much it cost but I learned later it was about a thousand
    > dollars. Last year the flash recorders were selling for a lot more and
    > the cards held much less. I'll still be using minidisc for a few years yet
    > but clearly this is the future for field recording. no moving parts and
    > immediate, direct transfer.


    even with flash memory, the transfer speed isn't instantaneous, since flash
    RAM isn't instantaneous, depending on the amount of data being transferred.
    Flash memory cards nearly as fast as normal non-flash RAM at storing and
    retrieving data. Besides, even if it was that fast, your harddrive clearly
    is not, and that would be the typical destination for such files during the
    transfer (or a slower optical device).
     
    Thor, Dec 29, 2004
    #5
  6. Thor wrote:
    \
    >
    > even with flash memory, the transfer speed isn't instantaneous, since flash
    > RAM isn't instantaneous, depending on the amount of data being transferred.
    > Flash memory cards nearly as fast as normal non-flash RAM at storing and
    > retrieving data. Besides, even if it was that fast, your harddrive clearly
    > is not, and that would be the typical destination for such files during the
    > transfer (or a slower optical device).


    Though you are correct, you need to understand two things

    1: Within a couple of seconds (The time it takes the computer to realize
    you have plugged in the card) the recording is available to play on the
    computer.... Instantly.

    Transfer takes a bit of time, How long it takes depends mostly on the
    computer but if you have the kind of computer radio stations use these
    days to record, edit, store and play audio..... Well....

    Let's just say it won't take long to copy a gig or two of audio
     
    John in Detroit, Dec 29, 2004
    #6
  7. John

    The One Guest

    "Citimouse" <> wrote in message
    news:41d26cba$...
    > Both IPOD and MD serves their own purposes and each have their pros and
    > cons. What happen if you IPOD battery goes flat? You will have to charge
    > it.
    > For MD, just buy a battery and continue. You can transfer files from PC to
    > IPOD easily but not for SonicStage. The list goes on.
    >
    > So, this is a never ending argument.
    >

    Each to their own, but a MP3 player makes it easier to compile favourite
    tracks, since it is easy to rip CD's to MP3 makes minidisc an outsider in
    the market.
     
    The One, Dec 29, 2004
    #7
  8. John

    citimouse Guest

    I do not deny that. I have just bought a NH900. I was deciding whether to
    get a Hi MD or IPOD to replace my Sharp MS722 MD. I finally settle for the
    NH900. There are several reasons why I chose the MD.

    1. If I drop my IPOD, there goes all my songs. I do not want to keep a
    backup copy of the songs in CD. If I want to do that, I might as well keep
    in MD. MD is protected by it's plastic case while CD does not.

    2. Battery Life. After reading all the -ve reports in IPOD battery life and
    the high cost of replacing it, I have decided not to let Steve Jobs to earn
    all these money.

    3. My MS722 has last me for the past 5 years and is still usable. I believe
    the IPOD do not last so long.

    Just my thoughts. :)

    "The One" <> wrote in message
    news:41d2b6b5$...
    >
    > "Citimouse" <> wrote in message
    > news:41d26cba$...
    >> Both IPOD and MD serves their own purposes and each have their pros and
    >> cons. What happen if you IPOD battery goes flat? You will have to charge
    >> it.
    >> For MD, just buy a battery and continue. You can transfer files from PC
    >> to
    >> IPOD easily but not for SonicStage. The list goes on.
    >>
    >> So, this is a never ending argument.
    >>

    > Each to their own, but a MP3 player makes it easier to compile favourite
    > tracks, since it is easy to rip CD's to MP3 makes minidisc an outsider in
    > the market.
    >
     
    citimouse, Dec 29, 2004
    #8
  9. John

    The One Guest

    "citimouse" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I do not deny that. I have just bought a NH900. I was deciding whether to
    >get a Hi MD or IPOD to replace my Sharp MS722 MD. I finally settle for the
    >NH900. There are several reasons why I chose the MD.
    >
    > 1. If I drop my IPOD, there goes all my songs. I do not want to keep a
    > backup copy of the songs in CD. If I want to do that, I might as well keep
    > in MD. MD is protected by it's plastic case while CD does not.
    >

    Keep a backup on a PC, dont drop it.

    > 2. Battery Life. After reading all the -ve reports in IPOD battery life
    > and the high cost of replacing it, I have decided not to let Steve Jobs to
    > earn all these money.


    Ipods are shit.
    >
    > 3. My MS722 has last me for the past 5 years and is still usable. I
    > believe the IPOD do not last so long.
    >

    Ipods are shit.

    > Just my thoughts. :)


    Ipods are shit.
    >
    > "The One" wrote in message
    > news:41d2b6b5$...
    >>
    >> "Citimouse" <> wrote in message
    >> news:41d26cba$...
    >>> Both IPOD and MD serves their own purposes and each have their pros and
    >>> cons. What happen if you IPOD battery goes flat? You will have to charge
    >>> it.
    >>> For MD, just buy a battery and continue. You can transfer files from PC
    >>> to
    >>> IPOD easily but not for SonicStage. The list goes on.
    >>>
    >>> So, this is a never ending argument.
    >>>

    >> Each to their own, but a MP3 player makes it easier to compile favourite
    >> tracks, since it is easy to rip CD's to MP3 makes minidisc an outsider in
    >> the market.
    >>

    >
    >
     
    The One, Dec 29, 2004
    #9
  10. John

    Jim Berwick Guest

    "The One" <> wrote in news:41d2bbe8$1_1@mk-
    nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com:

    > Ipods are shit.
    >


    I'd have to agree only because of the requirement of using crappy
    proprietary software to put music on to them.
     
    Jim Berwick, Dec 29, 2004
    #10
  11. John

    Jeff Findley Guest

    "John" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello.
    >
    > Today I have been transferring lots of CDs of my sisters onto a MP3
    > Zen thing she got for Christmas which was quite an experience.
    >
    > It is a pretty remarkable gadget and I am pretty amazed by the amount
    > of songs it can hold - 40GB!!!


    ....

    > Perhaps it would be an idea for Sony to make a Hi-MD unit that also
    > had a built in Hard-Drive? That way they would be able to take some
    > of the portable device share from companies like Apple, Creative etc.


    Sony already has a HD based ATRAC device. I'm not sure if it has the same
    "restrictions" as MD in SonicStage.

    Sticking a MD player and a HD into the same unit has some merit, but mostly
    it has drawbacks. If you have a 40GB HD (or bigger, since they keep growing
    in capacity year by year), what would be the point of sticking an MD slot on
    it? Even a 1GB MD can't touch a 40+GB HD in terms of capacity.

    Jeff
    --
    Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.
     
    Jeff Findley, Jan 3, 2005
    #11
  12. John

    Jeff Findley Guest

    "Citimouse" <> wrote in message
    news:41d26cba$...
    > Both IPOD and MD serves their own purposes and each have their pros and
    > cons. What happen if you IPOD battery goes flat? You will have to charge

    it.
    > For MD, just buy a battery and continue. You can transfer files from PC to
    > IPOD easily but not for SonicStage. The list goes on.


    This has little to do with the HD versus MD issue. It would be easy enough
    to create a HD based player that used AA batteries like most portable MD
    players.

    Jeff
    --
    Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.
     
    Jeff Findley, Jan 3, 2005
    #12
  13. John

    Jeff Findley Guest

    "John in Detroit" <> wrote in message
    news:EzyAd.7466$...
    > Thor wrote:
    > >
    > > even with flash memory, the transfer speed isn't instantaneous, since

    flash
    > > RAM isn't instantaneous, depending on the amount of data being

    transferred.
    > > Flash memory cards nearly as fast as normal non-flash RAM at storing and
    > > retrieving data. Besides, even if it was that fast, your harddrive

    clearly
    > > is not, and that would be the typical destination for such files during

    the
    > > transfer (or a slower optical device).

    >
    > Though you are correct, you need to understand two things
    >
    > 1: Within a couple of seconds (The time it takes the computer to realize
    > you have plugged in the card) the recording is available to play on the
    > computer.... Instantly.
    >
    > Transfer takes a bit of time, How long it takes depends mostly on the
    > computer but if you have the kind of computer radio stations use these
    > days to record, edit, store and play audio..... Well....
    >
    > Let's just say it won't take long to copy a gig or two of audio


    I'm not understanding the fundamental difference between this and any other
    music player that has a USB 2.0 connection and is recognized as a "mass
    media" device to Windows.

    My daughter's flash memory based MP3 player can do this. Plug the thing
    into any PC and you can play the MP3 files with your favorite MP3 player on
    the PC. You can also drag and drop the files anywhere on your PC.

    Maybe the memory on the commercial unit is faster than your typical consumer
    grade flash memory, but I see no fundamental difference in the way you can
    use the device.

    Jeff
    --
    Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.
     
    Jeff Findley, Jan 3, 2005
    #13
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