Motivating high-school students to join college after completing high school

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by m1@mailinator.com, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. Guest

    My nephew and his friend are living with me since a few weeks, till
    their parents return from an overseas trip, and both are teenagers who
    will be completing high school next year (May 08).

    Unfortunately, during the few weeks they stayed with me, I did not
    monitor them closely and the two boys have talked to people in my
    neighborhood, places where they were working part-time and got some
    ideas about not going to a college immediately after high-school is
    more profitable in the long run.

    The problem started as they talked to people in my neighborhood and
    were working in retail stores (like Target and JCPenney) as their
    parents had allowed them to work part-time during their stay with
    them. Somehow, the two boys have got the idea that it is far more
    lucrative to continue working full time after completing high-school,
    get a few years experience in a specific field, start their own
    business and become wealthy relatively faster as compared to someone
    who gets a college degree. They told me that they were going to
    discuss this matter with their parents. Obviously, their parents will
    dissuade them like me, but I don't want the parents to think I
    misguided the boys while they were with me. I am 26 years old, a
    recent graduate (having a B.S. + M.S in Computer Science), working for
    the state govt. and my gross salary is 32K and net is 25K in
    Tallahassee, FL. Both the teenagers were partly discouraged looking
    at my salary after a 6 year college degree. I explained to them as I
    liked to contribute my talents to the govt. sector where there is
    relatively less hustle, politics and need of producing short term
    gains as compared to corporate sector and hence took up a job with the
    State govt.

    In my area people who work for stores like Target, JC Penney people
    with high school diploma and 2-3 years of experience start with
    50K(gross), people having their own business(credit union, bank, gas
    station, grocery store, real estate agent, landlord, hotel, restaurant
    owners, automobile stores, automobile parts and the varied number of
    shops we all see on the roads) are well in 300K - 500K in their middle
    twenties(24-27) and some more experienced folks are 1M(one million) or
    more. I was slightly skeptical, but the boys were told(by the folks
    who gave them this information) it is accurate as people in the
    corporate sector or having their own business typically earn lot more
    than people in the govt. sector or else most of them wouldn't be
    working there for the private sector or running their own business,
    which I could not deny.

    They were advised to start their own business and prosper rather than
    get a college degree and aid the State (or corporate sector) in
    generating revenue like me. They were informed in today's age of
    obtaining degrees on the Web, distance education classes practically
    anyone can get a degree when they truly require it (in 1-2 years or
    so) which so many Web only campuses provide. They were told going to
    college and spending 3-4 years while you can get it in 2 years when
    you actually require it seems a bit odd.

    One of my neighbor who just has an A.S. in Computer Science works as a
    contractor. He teaches classes to new employees of state in fields
    like Java,PL/SQL etc. and earns about 160K gross and 120K net. He gets
    about 5K income per week he teaches a class and sometimes about 7K. He
    is employed about 30-35 weeks per year out of the 52 weeks in a year.
    His net is 120K as he gets enormous tax breaks of running a business
    not to mention the funds he receives under the table(which seems
    unethical and how he does that is a mystery to me) which are tax free.
    His wife works for a State agency getting benefits(health/life
    insurance/investment) for the family. The husband is 24 and wife is
    22(no college degree). Their household income is about 135K and only
    one member in their household has a 2 year college degree. He told the
    boys they could follow his path, as state agencies have some funds
    allocated for training and if one has good contacts with key people in
    the state agencies, their employment odds are high as the state
    agencies will hire them every year for teaching the same subject. If
    things don't work out, one can nearly always find a secure job with
    local, state or federal government, but at first one should take
    risks, if he wants to retire decently, buy a car, home, put his
    children through college and other myriad expenses incurred in raising
    a family.

    Another person in my area is an immigrant from another part of world.
    He immigrated at 55 to U.S. with no funds and aided by his relatives
    started a motel and became a millionaire at 65. I could not explain to
    the boys how someone with no college degree, comes to our country at
    55 and becomes so prosperous in 10 years. Agreed, most businesses
    which pan out like his did are in that range, but I could not find a
    valid reason that so many people having college degrees and working
    for govt. or private sector are having financial issues in their
    fifties, but such business owners are remarkably flourishing. The
    immigrant secured loans from banks as his relatives were a collateral
    for him. His relatives also taught him the tricks of motel
    business(hike up the price during weekends, when there is a big
    function in City, getting tax breaks, dealings under the table by cash
    only deals etc.) His relatives were like that person except that they
    came while they were between the age group of 30-35. I realize people
    who have their own businesses are normally well off as compared to
    someone who work for private or govt. sector.

    Another immigrant living a few blocks from me is from India. He came
    through a
    visa program similar to this one explained at this link
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/25/AR2007062502016.html?hpid=topnews
    The link states how someone was running a company by bringing people
    to our country and gaining his commission from the companies that
    require such people. That immigrant (person X) came through the same
    means. He has a Bachelor's in Computer Engineering and he came on some
    work visa (H1-B). He worked for companies like Goldman Sachs, Ernst
    and Young and many other financial firms and 40% of his salary was
    withheld by the person who brought him as part of the deal for
    bringing him to the country. He after gaining permanent residency
    applied the same method. He would bring someone from India/China
    stating he wants to employ person 'A', thus applying for person A's H1-
    B visa. Person 'A' would work for a company like Goldman Sachs who
    would be billed for 80$/hr. Person A would obtain only 30$/hr with no
    benefits as 50$ will be his employer's (person X) charges. Thus,
    person X obtained a profit of about 25$/hr from one person A (after
    deducting business expenses of 25$/hr from the 80$/hour rate he was
    billing Goldman Sachs) or about 50K per person. He brought in 10 such
    people from India/China every year and is now a multi-millionaire at
    32. He just has to advertise his employees properly and ensure there
    are projects for them all the year round just like any other
    consulting company. The H1-B visa was implemented to enable foreign
    workers who are actually skilled to be hired in U.S. rather than
    bringing someone who will pay a percentage of his wages to his
    employer and without any benefits. I explained to the boys it was like
    some admission official in a top college allowing unworthy students to
    get admitted(who actually did not deserve and did not meet the
    standards of the college) just because the students were allowing to
    grease the palms of the admission official. This keeps the truly
    talented students out of the college (and deprives them of their
    chances of growth) as well as degrades the quality of the college as a
    campus is judged by its students. Granted, he is impacting the U.S.
    company in a negative way, but that person was just worried about
    filling his pocket. The boys assured me they will not indulge in any
    such dishonest tactics (taking advantage of loopholes in immigration
    law) which would be detrimental to our country's economy in the short
    and long run.

    Another family in my neighborhood runs an internet site like
    http://www.mymoneyblog.com/ and generates revenue of about 300K per
    year from the advertisements on their site. The boys were attracted to
    this venture also as that household folks learned computers 4 years
    ago.

    Another person who worked for a while(3-4 years) at a bank after high-
    school, started his own credit union and became a multi-millionaire at
    32. Another man became a millionaire after working for an expensive
    restaurant and then starting his own restaurant at 33. As the boys
    were working at the retail stores like Target and JC Penney, looking
    at the crowd which was purchasing expensive items daily, they thought
    that most people in our area are quite well off. Unfortunately, as I
    am in low income and hardly ever go to such malls, the boys concluded
    looking at me, starting your own business one can become far more
    financially independent compared to going to college and then working
    for someone. I attempted to explain that few people who shop in such
    malls go on unwanted spending (resulting in unnecessary debt) which is
    not a proper practice, but could not refute the fact that our country
    has the maximum billionaires or in other words people in our country
    are quite well off and hence can afford such spending.

    They talked to my landlord who owns about 100 apartments and hardly
    knows anything about house repair. On a repair call from a tenant, he
    sends his repair crew, still manages to pocket 1.5M after his expenses
    or taxes. That person is just 25, but he had the advantage that his
    grandfather purchased the property and paid the mortgage long ago, so
    this person just has to collect rent from people like me and lead a
    leisurely life. I wanted to explain to the boys that, though my
    landlord(without clearing middle school) has a seven figure salary
    working 10hours/week, instances like him are little rare. But, the
    boys were not fully convinced by my explanation as there are too many
    people in the real estate industry who are in the seven figure income
    in my area and possibly 8-9 figures in places like urban California
    and New York City. The boys thought despite of me having a six year
    degree I was not so well off financially, but people like my landlord
    were heavily prospering. I recognize it is tenants like me who
    contribute to my landlord's wealth at my expense.

    A fellow who has a construction business, earns about 500K per year at
    26 without a college degree. He had to gain some licenses, but 500K
    seemed quite attractive to the youngsters at 26, though I believe such
    cases are uncommon.

    Couple of other folks who have pawn shops, gas stations, grocery
    stores, automobile shops, retail stores gave the boys same idea of
    working somewhere and then starting their own business to become a
    millionaire while in their twenties. All the people told the boys,
    starting your own business and on the first few years doing as much
    cash only transactions will aid them in evading lot of taxes and after
    then keeping two registers for transactions like one for
    IRS(evidently, which will be fabricated) and one which shows the
    actual dealings. Seraching the web viewing links such as
    http://www.careerprospects.org/Trends/salary-sixfigure.html,
    discussions in stock/investment newsgroups as well as e-bay newsgroups
    made the youngsters believe 6 figure salaries is indeed very common in
    our country and if so many people with a high school diploma are
    obtaining it, it should be possible for them if they act wisely after
    high school. Apparently, they were informed that most people in the
    sports, media(TV/movie/radio industry) are well beyond the 6 figure
    salary. I understand few sports coach salaries are in seven figures,
    some movie/TV/radio stars and many others are well in the six figures,
    not all, but it tough convincing the young folks of risks (success
    rate of actors) present in such fields.

    Some have suggested the boys to gain some experience in credit card
    industry which is booming. The boys were informed Visa/Mastercard earn
    about 25% of each transaction as their transaction fees and removing
    the business expenses they earn a profit of about 10% per transaction.
    Organizations which provide Bill pay service to new banks earn
    interest by just moving funds around from the payer to payee, and
    earning funds in the interim period. As I don't have much knowledge
    about such services I could not refute statements stated by people who
    work in banking industry. That was one other area the boys were
    suggested to go into.

    The teenagers read a couple of books on the library which gave them
    some 101 top business ideas, but I clarified if the ideas actually
    worked, the author could be earning a mint himself before he published
    the book.

    http://www.google.com/services/local-business-referrals/repfaq.html
    http://www.selladsense.com/
    are few of the links where people can earn some funds which the boys
    were suggested to look into. I don't know how much of these programs
    work.

    I stated examples of how people with a college degree working for the
    State could start with 100K or more in my area (Tallahasee, FL) after
    graduation as explained below. I gave them an example of a
    hypothetical high school student who finishes high school at 17-18.
    And, today virtually all high school students take AP(Advanced
    Placement) classes while in high school itself which enables them to
    start as a sophomore(2nd year student in college) instead of a
    freshman(1st year student in college). There, they can save a year so
    they can get their bachelor's in 3 years instead of 4 years. Taking
    all the summer and winter classes their campus may offer (and today
    most colleges have winter or summer classes) they complete the
    workload of 3 years in 2 years. So, by the time they are 19 or 20 they
    have finished their Bachelor's. Then, with a year of experience of
    research at 20 or 21 about the Bachelor's thesis work they can go for
    Ph.D and finish in about 4 years which is 24 or 25. Then, they can
    start as a tenure track faculty or Assistant Professor. Where I live
    there is a college FSU(http://www.fsu.edu) where such faculties start
    with 80K for nine months. For three months of summer they get
    additional 27K. So, their yearly salary is 80+27 = 107K. Assuming a
    household in which both members (husband and wife) do this, the
    household income of such a family is 107*2 = 214K at the age group of
    24-25 and that too working for the State Govt. (as FSU is a state
    university) seems attractive. Most lawyers, optometrists, nuclear,
    chemical, petroleum engineer, MBA graduates from top 15 B-schools
    start with 100K or quite close after graduation in the area where I
    live. I encouraged the boys to be like the professionals I stated. I
    recognize the final choice can be made only by the parents and
    children, but I wanted them to get a college education which would
    help them understand things better in life and work place.

    Granted, like most aspects in life the higher the risk, more is the
    reward. And, starting one's own business brings its own rewards which
    is the reason most people commence their own business or continue
    their family business and indeed prosper. But, I feel the boys could
    approach that issue after a Bachelor's degree and that time is not
    wasted if they actually learn something in a college.

    Finally, I did not intend to disparage anyone (immigrant examples),
    FSU faculty salaries might be little low or high(I got the number from
    a friend) or the numerous examples( commission charged by Visa/
    Mastercard, people in different fields). I understand different people
    have different talents and they pursue them. A person having athletic
    or acting ability can be a sportstar or in the media industry and it
    is completely fine, but I did not want the boys to choose a path
    solely based on the financial rewards. The salaries of people like my
    landlord, people in my neighbourhood, restaurant owners etc. were
    obtained by the folks themselves and may have a slight variance
    depending on the market.

    I realize the issue I am facing is not new and people in this group
    who are far more knowledgeable can guide me in encouraging the
    teenagers to pursue college. I would appreciate any advice.

    I have posted in another group, but somehow it did not appear in that
    group hence trying here as
    this being a helpdesk group could help someone like me though it is a
    non-IT issue.

    Thanks a lot.
     
    , Aug 13, 2007
    #1
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  2. WhzzKdd Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > I have posted in another group, but somehow it did not appear in that
    > group hence trying here as
    > this being a helpdesk group could help someone like me though it is a
    > non-IT issue.
    >
    > Thanks a lot.
    >


    Blimey, you like to talk a lot.

    It's between the boys and the parents. Stay out of it.
     
    WhzzKdd, Aug 13, 2007
    #2
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  3. Re: Motivating high-school students to join college after completinghigh school

    wrote:
    > My nephew and his friend are living with me since a few weeks, till
    > their parents return from an overseas trip, and both are teenagers who

    <snip>

    I have an erection that's lasted more than 4 hours and I'm wondering
    what to do. I've called for a press conference at midnight, but so far
    only the Poor Valley Astonisher has agreed to send a representative. And
    she's fat and ugly. Anyway, I'm thinking of moving to your area so I can
    get one of those low-paying jobs of $300K a year.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Aug 13, 2007
    #3
  4. Rectum Burn Guest

    Rôgêr <> said in
    news::

    > wrote:
    >> My nephew and his friend are living with me since a few weeks, till
    >> their parents return from an overseas trip, and both are teenagers who

    > <snip>
    >
    > I have an erection that's lasted more than 4 hours and I'm wondering
    > what to do. I've called for a press conference at midnight, but so far
    > only the Poor Valley Astonisher has agreed to send a representative. And
    > she's fat and ugly. Anyway, I'm thinking of moving to your area so I can
    > get one of those low-paying jobs of $300K a year.
    >


    Roger, you're a fucking riot! Just thought you'd like to know.

    Rectum Burrrrrrrrrn
     
    Rectum Burn, Aug 13, 2007
    #4
  5. Re: Motivating high-school students to join college after completinghigh school

    Rectum Burn wrote:

    > Roger, you're a fucking riot! Just thought you'd like to know.


    Quiet, you'll only encourage me.
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=, Aug 13, 2007
    #5
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