Motherboards with onboard video: any of them remotely decent?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Squiggle, Sep 13, 2008.

  1. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?

    Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card in
    one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video, or
    just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$ available for
    a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only carry over parts
    will be the SATA drives.

    Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like working
    with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up running a lot
    of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.
     
    Squiggle, Sep 13, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Squiggle" typed:
    > As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >
    > Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    > money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card
    > in one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video,
    > or just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$
    > available for a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only
    > carry over parts will be the SATA drives.
    >
    > Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like
    > working with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up
    > running a lot of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.


    Hi,

    I can't give you specifics about boards but it's my experience that
    integrated mobos tend to be compromises and to not have very good video
    anyway. (Although I've been hearing about 'upcoming' good quality integrated
    video solutions for a while now but haven't seen any reviewed..)

    I would suggest (without having done research on this) that you get a good
    mobo and the cheapest PCIe graphics card you can find, then upgrade the card
    when you can afford it. That way you won't be wishing you had a better mobo
    in a year or two.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 13, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Squiggle

    Richard Guest

    Squiggle wrote:
    > As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >
    > Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    > money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card in
    > one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video, or
    > just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$ available for
    > a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only carry over parts
    > will be the SATA drives.
    >
    > Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like working
    > with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up running a lot
    > of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.


    For cad you would probably be better looking for a quadro or firegl in
    the longterm so onboard should suffice for now.

    I have no issues with solidworks on my 780g board with 80-90 parts, how
    it would scale I have no idea.

    The parts are all stupidly simple things like a cylander with raduised
    ends and flat plates, only a couple of weird lofts and rotated solids.
     
    Richard, Sep 13, 2008
    #3
  4. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > Squiggle wrote:
    >> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>
    >> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    >> money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card in
    >> one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video, or
    >> just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$ available for
    >> a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only carry over parts
    >> will be the SATA drives.
    >>
    >> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like working
    >> with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up running a lot
    >> of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.

    >
    > For cad you would probably be better looking for a quadro or firegl in
    > the longterm so onboard should suffice for now.
    >
    > I have no issues with solidworks on my 780g board with 80-90 parts, how
    > it would scale I have no idea.
    >
    > The parts are all stupidly simple things like a cylander with raduised
    > ends and flat plates, only a couple of weird lofts and rotated solids.


    re your comment about the quadro/firegl cards.. what do thses cards do
    that is so freaking fantastic to justify the outrageous prices they
    command? comparing the specs on something like an 8800GTS and one of
    the quadro cards a while ago it seemed that the 8800 GTS had more of
    everything (onboard ram, memory bandwidth, pipelines) for about a third
    the price.

    And a bit of googling now turns up results that indicate some of the
    geforce series can be "soft-modded" into the equivalent quadro cards. eg
    http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539

    Seems to me like its more of a marketing scam driven by minor
    firmware/driver changes than any real difference in the hardware.
     
    Squiggle, Sep 13, 2008
    #4
  5. Squiggle

    Richard Guest

    Squiggle wrote:

    > re your comment about the quadro/firegl cards.. what do thses cards do
    > that is so freaking fantastic to justify the outrageous prices they
    > command? comparing the specs on something like an 8800GTS and one of
    > the quadro cards a while ago it seemed that the 8800 GTS had more of
    > everything (onboard ram, memory bandwidth, pipelines) for about a third
    > the price.
    >
    > And a bit of googling now turns up results that indicate some of the
    > geforce series can be "soft-modded" into the equivalent quadro cards. eg
    > http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539
    >
    > Seems to me like its more of a marketing scam driven by minor
    > firmware/driver changes than any real difference in the hardware.


    Yeah, you can softmod some of them but the difference is they can do all
    the stuff needed to accelerate the lines in the view and some other
    stuff, its just not enabled in the gaming cards despite the chip
    normally having the parts fully functional in them, Its like enabling
    the additional pipelines by a softmod, some cards will do it, some wont.
    When I tried it mine didnt and I got visual crap allover the screen when
    doing cad.

    Having the instruciont makes solidworks and some others have bling mode
    work where things have textures and stuff so they look a lot nicer
    without having to render them.
     
    Richard, Sep 13, 2008
    #5
  6. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > Squiggle wrote:
    >
    >> re your comment about the quadro/firegl cards.. what do thses cards do
    >> that is so freaking fantastic to justify the outrageous prices they
    >> command? comparing the specs on something like an 8800GTS and one of
    >> the quadro cards a while ago it seemed that the 8800 GTS had more of
    >> everything (onboard ram, memory bandwidth, pipelines) for about a third
    >> the price.
    >>
    >> And a bit of googling now turns up results that indicate some of the
    >> geforce series can be "soft-modded" into the equivalent quadro cards. eg
    >> http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539
    >>
    >> Seems to me like its more of a marketing scam driven by minor
    >> firmware/driver changes than any real difference in the hardware.

    >
    > Yeah, you can softmod some of them but the difference is they can do all
    > the stuff needed to accelerate the lines in the view and some other
    > stuff, its just not enabled in the gaming cards despite the chip
    > normally having the parts fully functional in them, Its like enabling
    > the additional pipelines by a softmod, some cards will do it, some wont.
    > When I tried it mine didnt and I got visual crap allover the screen when
    > doing cad.
    >
    > Having the instruciont makes solidworks and some others have bling mode
    > work where things have textures and stuff so they look a lot nicer
    > without having to render them.


    Hmm, might have to take my chances with a softmod, the prices of the
    workstation cards are bloody ridiculous, and I don't need anti-alaising
    or fancy lighting, I just need to move lines and vertices around at a
    reasonable pace.
     
    Squiggle, Sep 13, 2008
    #6
  7. Squiggle

    Gordon Guest

    On 2008-09-13, Squiggle <> wrote:
    > Richard wrote:
    >> Squiggle wrote:
    >>
    >>> re your comment about the quadro/firegl cards.. what do thses cards do
    >>> that is so freaking fantastic to justify the outrageous prices they
    >>> command? comparing the specs on something like an 8800GTS and one of
    >>> the quadro cards a while ago it seemed that the 8800 GTS had more of
    >>> everything (onboard ram, memory bandwidth, pipelines) for about a third
    >>> the price.
    >>>
    >>> And a bit of googling now turns up results that indicate some of the
    >>> geforce series can be "soft-modded" into the equivalent quadro cards. eg
    >>> http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539
    >>>
    >>> Seems to me like its more of a marketing scam driven by minor
    >>> firmware/driver changes than any real difference in the hardware.

    >>
    >> Yeah, you can softmod some of them but the difference is they can do all
    >> the stuff needed to accelerate the lines in the view and some other
    >> stuff, its just not enabled in the gaming cards despite the chip
    >> normally having the parts fully functional in them, Its like enabling
    >> the additional pipelines by a softmod, some cards will do it, some wont.
    >> When I tried it mine didnt and I got visual crap allover the screen when
    >> doing cad.
    >>
    >> Having the instruciont makes solidworks and some others have bling mode
    >> work where things have textures and stuff so they look a lot nicer
    >> without having to render them.

    >
    > Hmm, might have to take my chances with a softmod, the prices of the
    > workstation cards are bloody ridiculous, and I don't need anti-alaising
    > or fancy lighting, I just need to move lines and vertices around at a
    > reasonable pace.


    So you are not interested in many frames per second then? Think of it this
    way, in a game on ones PC the pixels change fast as the monitor and graphics
    card allow.
     
    Gordon, Sep 13, 2008
    #7
  8. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    Gordon wrote:
    > On 2008-09-13, Squiggle <> wrote:
    >> Richard wrote:
    >>> Squiggle wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> re your comment about the quadro/firegl cards.. what do thses cards do
    >>>> that is so freaking fantastic to justify the outrageous prices they
    >>>> command? comparing the specs on something like an 8800GTS and one of
    >>>> the quadro cards a while ago it seemed that the 8800 GTS had more of
    >>>> everything (onboard ram, memory bandwidth, pipelines) for about a third
    >>>> the price.
    >>>>
    >>>> And a bit of googling now turns up results that indicate some of the
    >>>> geforce series can be "soft-modded" into the equivalent quadro cards. eg
    >>>> http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539
    >>>>
    >>>> Seems to me like its more of a marketing scam driven by minor
    >>>> firmware/driver changes than any real difference in the hardware.
    >>> Yeah, you can softmod some of them but the difference is they can do all
    >>> the stuff needed to accelerate the lines in the view and some other
    >>> stuff, its just not enabled in the gaming cards despite the chip
    >>> normally having the parts fully functional in them, Its like enabling
    >>> the additional pipelines by a softmod, some cards will do it, some wont.
    >>> When I tried it mine didnt and I got visual crap allover the screen when
    >>> doing cad.
    >>>
    >>> Having the instruciont makes solidworks and some others have bling mode
    >>> work where things have textures and stuff so they look a lot nicer
    >>> without having to render them.

    >> Hmm, might have to take my chances with a softmod, the prices of the
    >> workstation cards are bloody ridiculous, and I don't need anti-alaising
    >> or fancy lighting, I just need to move lines and vertices around at a
    >> reasonable pace.

    >
    > So you are not interested in many frames per second then? Think of it this
    > way, in a game on ones PC the pixels change fast as the monitor and graphics
    > card allow.
    >


    anything over 10 fps is bearable for rotating a CAD model, and if a
    softmod can turn a $500 geforce 8800gtx into a $3600 Quadro fx 4600
    clone, then i'm sure to be happy with that. why waste the extra $3K. and
    if it fails i'm sure that the 8800 will rotate it just fine in the first
    place. If a radeon 9600 is only just driving me nuts now, I cant see how
    a card 4 generations or more newer would cause me to rip my hair out.
     
    Squiggle, Sep 13, 2008
    #8
  9. Squiggle

    impossible Guest

    "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    news:48cb8db4$...
    > Gordon wrote:
    >> On 2008-09-13, Squiggle <> wrote:
    >>> Richard wrote:
    >>>> Squiggle wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> re your comment about the quadro/firegl cards.. what do thses cards
    >>>>> do
    >>>>> that is so freaking fantastic to justify the outrageous prices they
    >>>>> command? comparing the specs on something like an 8800GTS and one of
    >>>>> the quadro cards a while ago it seemed that the 8800 GTS had more of
    >>>>> everything (onboard ram, memory bandwidth, pipelines) for about a
    >>>>> third
    >>>>> the price.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> And a bit of googling now turns up results that indicate some of the
    >>>>> geforce series can be "soft-modded" into the equivalent quadro cards.
    >>>>> eg
    >>>>> http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=539
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Seems to me like its more of a marketing scam driven by minor
    >>>>> firmware/driver changes than any real difference in the hardware.
    >>>> Yeah, you can softmod some of them but the difference is they can do
    >>>> all
    >>>> the stuff needed to accelerate the lines in the view and some other
    >>>> stuff, its just not enabled in the gaming cards despite the chip
    >>>> normally having the parts fully functional in them, Its like enabling
    >>>> the additional pipelines by a softmod, some cards will do it, some
    >>>> wont.
    >>>> When I tried it mine didnt and I got visual crap allover the screen
    >>>> when
    >>>> doing cad.
    >>>>
    >>>> Having the instruciont makes solidworks and some others have bling mode
    >>>> work where things have textures and stuff so they look a lot nicer
    >>>> without having to render them.
    >>> Hmm, might have to take my chances with a softmod, the prices of the
    >>> workstation cards are bloody ridiculous, and I don't need anti-alaising
    >>> or fancy lighting, I just need to move lines and vertices around at a
    >>> reasonable pace.

    >>
    >> So you are not interested in many frames per second then? Think of it
    >> this
    >> way, in a game on ones PC the pixels change fast as the monitor and
    >> graphics
    >> card allow.
    >>

    >
    > anything over 10 fps is bearable for rotating a CAD model, and if a
    > softmod can turn a $500 geforce 8800gtx into a $3600 Quadro fx 4600
    > clone, then i'm sure to be happy with that. why waste the extra $3K. and
    > if it fails i'm sure that the 8800 will rotate it just fine in the first
    > place. If a radeon 9600 is only just driving me nuts now, I cant see how
    > a card 4 generations or more newer would cause me to rip my hair out.


    Agreed. And 8800 GT's, which perform nearly as well as GTX's can be had for
    **much** less. Still, for your purposes right now, I think your first
    instinct is the best. For 2D CAD, the better integrated graphics chips (like
    the x3100) will do the job just fine. For 3D rendering, dedicated cards will
    provide a big improvement in performance, but there's really no need to go
    climbing the gpu ladder for that unless (a) you do a lot of 3D rendering and
    (b) you really can't spare a few extra minutes -- and of course you can
    always upgrade down the road as your needs change.
     
    impossible, Sep 13, 2008
    #9
  10. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    thingy wrote:
    > Squiggle wrote:
    >> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>
    >> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    >> money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card in
    >> one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video, or
    >> just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$ available for
    >> a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only carry over parts
    >> will be the SATA drives.
    >>
    >> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like working
    >> with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up running a lot
    >> of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.

    >
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > OK....you have provided us some detail here to work with....what you are
    > going to be running (CAD etc) suggests a quad core CPU and an Intel one
    > appears to be the way to go as Intel CPUs do better in this area I
    > believe. You will also probably be loading large files on and off disk
    > so good sata performance, and since its your Uni work, I'd raid1 the
    > disks and backup to DVD/USB sticks (I have a 2gb one inside my PC just
    > for that)...The intel 10R series of onboard chipsets are the best for
    > speed and raid IMHO...
    >
    > Lots RAM is going to be a must....this will depend on your OS, but I'd
    > look for a motherboard supporting 8Gb but start with 2 x 2GB of DDR2-800...
    >
    > So if you get a basic $120 motherboard its going to be limited in
    > several areas, it might only have 2 sata channels, its PCI-e slot might
    > be 16 way physically but the cheap ones are 8 way electrically...and its
    > sata performance will be cwap....
    >
    > So this is pushing us to look at the $200~$250 mark for motherboards IMHO.
    >
    > I would suggest looking at a good motherbaord such as Asus and Gigabyte,
    > with 4+ sata channels and capable of 8GB ram support....You could go
    > AMD but to be honest I would not unless money really is an issue......if
    > you were doing general desktop work with games yes....when you look at
    > rendering and CAD then from what I have seen Intel seems the better
    > performer, you will also have more chance for better CPUs as Intel has a
    > higher performance range though at high cost.....
    >
    > But first, I would go look at what the vendor of your CAD program
    > recommends for CPU and Ram but also do independant research to confirm,
    > as these days its not un-usual for companies like Intel etc to offer
    > backhanders to others to push their CPUs...
    >
    > You may also need to consider dual booting a 32bit of your OS and a
    > 64bit one...I would not be surprised if the need for lots of Ram will
    > dictate that you will need 64bit. 400+ CAD assemblies suggests a lot of
    > RAM.
    >
    > You dont list what sort of Video card but for "real" CAD work, games
    > video cards are not the best, you should really look at the workstation
    > versions again research is needed here as there maybe special extra
    > drivers from the video card vendor and/or CAD vendor to make a better
    > match....even for the games cards...
    >
    > Next point is both Nvidia and ATI are talking about using the on-board
    > video on top of the dedicated video card for a performance boost, this
    > seem to be happening now, so look for motherboards with this feature.
    > This will lock you into one video card vendor though...
    >
    > So if money is tight, I'd get a middle range motherbaord in the $250
    > range with an onboard 7100 or 8100 series class video...if you have the
    > money 2 x 2 Gb of ram or say 2 x 1GB stick, DDR2 is fone unless DDR3 is
    > little more.
    >
    > Other things to consider is if you need to move large files between home
    > and uni an external e-sata/fw/usb2 drive like the seagate ones..in
    > e-sata mode you will get a high speed transfer, so a motherbaord with an
    > e-sata port seems a good idea.



    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >


    Thanks for the suggestions, but quad cores, workstation graphics cards,
    8GB Ram and $250 motherboards on a student budget is somewhat...
    unrealistic.
     
    Squiggle, Sep 14, 2008
    #10
  11. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:
    > Squiggle wrote:
    >> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>
    >> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    >> money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video
    >> card in one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board
    >> video, or just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$
    >> available for a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only
    >> carry over parts will be the SATA drives.
    >>
    >> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like
    >> working with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up
    >> running a lot of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.

    >
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > OK....you have provided us some detail here to work with....what you
    > are going to be running (CAD etc) suggests a quad core CPU and an
    > Intel one appears to be the way to go as Intel CPUs do better in this
    > area I believe. You will also probably be loading large files on and off
    > disk
    > so good sata performance, and since its your Uni work, I'd raid1 the
    > disks and backup to DVD/USB sticks (I have a 2gb one inside my PC just
    > for that)...The intel 10R series of onboard chipsets are the best for
    > speed and raid IMHO...
    >
    > Lots RAM is going to be a must....this will depend on your OS, but I'd
    > look for a motherboard supporting 8Gb but start with 2 x 2GB of
    > DDR2-800...
    > So if you get a basic $120 motherboard its going to be limited in
    > several areas, it might only have 2 sata channels, its PCI-e slot
    > might be 16 way physically but the cheap ones are 8 way electrically...and
    > its sata performance will be cwap....
    >
    > So this is pushing us to look at the $200~$250 mark for motherboards
    > IMHO.
    > I would suggest looking at a good motherbaord such as Asus and
    > Gigabyte, with 4+ sata channels and capable of 8GB ram
    > support....You could go AMD but to be honest I would not unless money
    > really is an
    > issue......if you were doing general desktop work with games
    > yes....when you look at rendering and CAD then from what I have seen
    > Intel seems the better performer, you will also have more chance for
    > better CPUs as Intel has a higher performance range though at high
    > cost.....
    > But first, I would go look at what the vendor of your CAD program
    > recommends for CPU and Ram but also do independant research to
    > confirm, as these days its not un-usual for companies like Intel etc to
    > offer
    > backhanders to others to push their CPUs...
    >
    > You may also need to consider dual booting a 32bit of your OS and a
    > 64bit one...I would not be surprised if the need for lots of Ram will
    > dictate that you will need 64bit. 400+ CAD assemblies suggests a lot
    > of RAM.
    > You dont list what sort of Video card but for "real" CAD work, games
    > video cards are not the best, you should really look at the
    > workstation versions again research is needed here as there maybe
    > special extra drivers from the video card vendor and/or CAD vendor to make
    > a better
    > match....even for the games cards...
    >
    > Next point is both Nvidia and ATI are talking about using the on-board
    > video on top of the dedicated video card for a performance boost, this
    > seem to be happening now, so look for motherboards with this feature.
    > This will lock you into one video card vendor though...
    >
    > So if money is tight, I'd get a middle range motherbaord in the $250
    > range with an onboard 7100 or 8100 series class video...if you have
    > the money 2 x 2 Gb of ram or say 2 x 1GB stick, DDR2 is fone unless
    > DDR3 is little more.
    >
    > Other things to consider is if you need to move large files between
    > home and uni an external e-sata/fw/usb2 drive like the seagate
    > ones..in e-sata mode you will get a high speed transfer, so a motherbaord
    > with
    > an e-sata port seems a good idea.


    I have to say I largely agree with this. Two things though, the ICH10r
    southbridge only seems to be available with the latest generation
    northbridge (P45 etc.) so I would think that would put the board out of the
    $250 range. IMO and in reviews I've read the ICH9r should do almost as well
    anyway and can be found on time-tested P35 mobos. From what I can tell the
    10r is basically little more than a die-shrink of the 9r.

    The other thing is, if you want eSATA avoid the Seagate Freeagent (Pro)
    external drives as, not only do they run hot, they perform very poorly when
    used via eSATA (interface controller problem which Seagate don't even
    acknowledge), hardly any faster than when used via USB. You're far better
    off with a NexStar 3 enclosure and then fitting your own HDD. They *do* run
    at full eSATA speeds:

    http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=9345450

    Pair one of those with a Seagate 1TB drive (<$250 now) and you have an
    excellent external storage solution. (Best used on a mobo that has true
    eSATA rather than using the supplied SATA - eSATA adapter with the NexStar
    enclosure if you will be wanting to hot-swap.)

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 14, 2008
    #11
  12. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "~misfit~" typed:
    > Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:
    >>
    >> The intel 10R series of onboard chipsets are the
    >> best for speed and raid IMHO...
    >>

    > From
    > what I can tell the 10r is basically little more than a die-shrink of
    > the 9r.

    And, if I'd waited for the page to load I could have provided a link that
    says the same:

    http://techreport.com/articles.x/14882

    At the bottom of that page.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 14, 2008
    #12
  13. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "Squiggle" typed:
    > thingy wrote:
    >> Squiggle wrote:
    >>> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>>
    >>> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    >>> money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video
    >>> card in one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board
    >>> video, or just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the
    >>> $$$ available for a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so
    >>> only carry over parts will be the SATA drives.
    >>>
    >>> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like
    >>> working with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up
    >>> running a lot of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.

    >>
    >>
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> OK....you have provided us some detail here to work with....what you
    >> are going to be running (CAD etc) suggests a quad core CPU and an
    >> Intel one appears to be the way to go as Intel CPUs do better in
    >> this area I believe. You will also probably be loading large files
    >> on and off disk
    >> so good sata performance, and since its your Uni work, I'd raid1 the
    >> disks and backup to DVD/USB sticks (I have a 2gb one inside my PC
    >> just
    >> for that)...The intel 10R series of onboard chipsets are the best for
    >> speed and raid IMHO...
    >>
    >> Lots RAM is going to be a must....this will depend on your OS, but
    >> I'd look for a motherboard supporting 8Gb but start with 2 x 2GB of
    >> DDR2-800...
    >>
    >> So if you get a basic $120 motherboard its going to be limited in
    >> several areas, it might only have 2 sata channels, its PCI-e slot
    >> might
    >> be 16 way physically but the cheap ones are 8 way electrically...and
    >> its sata performance will be cwap....
    >>
    >> So this is pushing us to look at the $200~$250 mark for motherboards
    >> IMHO.
    >>
    >> I would suggest looking at a good motherbaord such as Asus and
    >> Gigabyte, with 4+ sata channels and capable of 8GB ram
    >> support....You could go
    >> AMD but to be honest I would not unless money really is an
    >> issue......if you were doing general desktop work with games
    >> yes....when you look at rendering and CAD then from what I have seen
    >> Intel seems the better performer, you will also have more chance for
    >> better CPUs as Intel has a higher performance range though at high
    >> cost.....
    >>
    >> But first, I would go look at what the vendor of your CAD program
    >> recommends for CPU and Ram but also do independant research to
    >> confirm,
    >> as these days its not un-usual for companies like Intel etc to offer
    >> backhanders to others to push their CPUs...
    >>
    >> You may also need to consider dual booting a 32bit of your OS and a
    >> 64bit one...I would not be surprised if the need for lots of Ram will
    >> dictate that you will need 64bit. 400+ CAD assemblies suggests a lot
    >> of RAM.
    >>
    >> You dont list what sort of Video card but for "real" CAD work, games
    >> video cards are not the best, you should really look at the
    >> workstation versions again research is needed here as there maybe
    >> special extra drivers from the video card vendor and/or CAD vendor
    >> to make a better match....even for the games cards...
    >>
    >> Next point is both Nvidia and ATI are talking about using the
    >> on-board video on top of the dedicated video card for a performance
    >> boost, this seem to be happening now, so look for motherboards with
    >> this feature.
    >> This will lock you into one video card vendor though...
    >>
    >> So if money is tight, I'd get a middle range motherbaord in the $250
    >> range with an onboard 7100 or 8100 series class video...if you have
    >> the money 2 x 2 Gb of ram or say 2 x 1GB stick, DDR2 is fone unless
    >> DDR3 is little more.
    >>
    >> Other things to consider is if you need to move large files between
    >> home and uni an external e-sata/fw/usb2 drive like the seagate
    >> ones..in
    >> e-sata mode you will get a high speed transfer, so a motherbaord
    >> with an e-sata port seems a good idea.

    >
    > Thanks for the suggestions, but quad cores, workstation graphics
    > cards, 8GB Ram and $250 motherboards on a student budget is
    > somewhat... unrealistic.


    I would strongly suggest that you consider spending as much as you can
    muster on a good mid-level P35 / ICH9r mobo, which is likely to cost you in
    the region of $250. The mobo is the heart of your system and not something
    you want to upgrade later. As such it makes sense to get something proven
    reliable and solid. I would suggest an Asus P5K-E as the bare minimum for a
    mission-critical machine with good connectivity. It'll likely cost you a
    little less than $250 by the time you pay GST and freight:

    http://www.nzoczone.com/product_info.php?cPath=32_33&products_id=6288?

    For an extra $10 you can get the P5K-E/WiFi-AP if you need wireless
    connectivity.

    P35 / ICH9r are a great combo and well-proven to be reliable and fast. A
    machine built around this mobo should last you well and not disappoint.

    Most any ~$80 graphics card will do as well as your 9600 and for a few
    dollars more ($113 delivered) you could get something significantly better
    that might make it less urgent to upgrade for a while:

    http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=367624

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 14, 2008
    #13
  14. Squiggle

    impossible Guest

    "thingy" <> wrote in message
    news:48cc3e14$...
    > Squiggle wrote:
    >> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>
    >> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    >> money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card in
    >> one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video, or
    >> just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$ available for
    >> a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only carry over parts
    >> will be the SATA drives.
    >>
    >> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like working
    >> with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up running a lot
    >> of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.

    >
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > OK....you have provided us some detail here to work with....


    ....but, no matter, thing-thingy-thing2 is going to ignore all that and just
    tell you what he likes instead.

    > what you are going to be running (CAD etc) suggests a quad core CPU and an
    > Intel one appears to be the way to go as Intel CPUs do better in this area
    > I believe. You will also probably be loading large files on and off disk
    > so good sata performance, and since its your Uni work, I'd raid1 the disks
    > and backup to DVD/USB sticks (I have a 2gb one inside my PC just for
    > that)...The intel 10R series of onboard chipsets are the best for speed
    > and raid IMHO...
    >


    Great on a student budget. Not!

    > Lots RAM is going to be a must....this will depend on your OS, but I'd
    > look for a motherboard supporting 8Gb but start with 2 x 2GB of
    > DDR2-800...
    >


    8GB? For what, pray tell?

    > So if you get a basic $120 motherboard its going to be limited in several
    > areas, it might only have 2 sata channels, its PCI-e slot might be 16 way
    > physically but the cheap ones are 8 way electrically...and its sata
    > performance will be cwap....
    >
    > So this is pushing us to look at the $200~$250 mark for motherboards IMHO.
    >


    "Us"? Is thing-thingy-thing2 chipping in?

    > I would suggest looking at a good motherbaord such as Asus and Gigabyte,
    > with 4+ sata channels and capable of 8GB ram support....You could go AMD
    > but to be honest I would not unless money really is an issue......if you
    > were doing general desktop work with games yes....when you look at
    > rendering and CAD then from what I have seen Intel seems the better
    > performer, you will also have more chance for better CPUs as Intel has a
    > higher performance range though at high cost.....
    >
    > But first, I would go look at what the vendor of your CAD program
    > recommends for CPU and Ram but also do independant research to confirm, as
    > these days its not un-usual for companies like Intel etc to offer
    > backhanders to others to push their CPUs...
    >
    > You may also need to consider dual booting a 32bit of your OS and a 64bit
    > one...I would not be surprised if the need for lots of Ram will dictate
    > that you will need 64bit. 400+ CAD assemblies suggests a lot of RAM.
    >


    No it doesn't. CAD software is processor intensive.

    > You dont list what sort of Video card but for "real" CAD work, games video
    > cards are not the best, you should really look at the workstation versions
    > again research is needed here as there maybe special extra drivers from
    > the video card vendor and/or CAD vendor to make a better match....even for
    > the games cards...
    >


    Utter nonsense.

    > Next point is both Nvidia and ATI are talking about using the on-board
    > video on top of the dedicated video card for a performance boost, this
    > seem to be happening now, so look for motherboards with this feature. This
    > will lock you into one video card vendor though...
    >
    > So if money is tight, I'd get a middle range motherbaord in the $250 range
    > with an onboard 7100 or 8100 series class video...if you have the money 2
    > x 2 Gb of ram or say 2 x 1GB stick, DDR2 is fone unless DDR3 is little
    > more.
    >
    > Other things to consider is if you need to move large files between home
    > and uni an external e-sata/fw/usb2 drive like the seagate ones..in e-sata
    > mode you will get a high speed transfer, so a motherbaord with an e-sata
    > port seems a good idea.
    >


    It's easy to spend other people's money, isn't it?
     
    impossible, Sep 14, 2008
    #14
  15. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    OZZY Boy wrote:
    > On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:16:46 +1200, Squiggle <> wrote:
    >
    >> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>
    >> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    >> money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card in
    >> one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video, or
    >> just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$ available for
    >> a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only carry over parts
    >> will be the SATA drives.
    >>
    >> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like working
    >> with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up running a lot
    >> of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.

    >
    >
    > No NO & NO..
    >
    >
     
    Squiggle, Sep 14, 2008
    #15
  16. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    OZZY Boy wrote:
    > On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:16:46 +1200, Squiggle <> wrote:
    >
    >> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>
    >> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    >> money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card in
    >> one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video, or
    >> just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$ available for
    >> a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only carry over parts
    >> will be the SATA drives.
    >>
    >> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like working
    >> with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up running a lot
    >> of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.

    >
    >
    > No NO & NO..
    >
    >


    Your opinion has been duly noted and ignored Woger.
     
    Squiggle, Sep 14, 2008
    #16
  17. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "~misfit~" typed:
    > Somewhere on teh intarweb "Squiggle" typed:
    >> thingy wrote:
    >>> Squiggle wrote:
    >>>> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>>>
    >>>> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system,
    >>>> but money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good
    >>>> video card in one hit. So trying to decide between a board with
    >>>> on-board video, or just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I
    >>>> have the $$$ available for a real video card. Current system is
    >>>> AGP & DDR so only carry over parts will be the SATA drives.
    >>>>
    >>>> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like
    >>>> working with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up
    >>>> running a lot of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Hi,
    >>>
    >>> OK....you have provided us some detail here to work with....what you
    >>> are going to be running (CAD etc) suggests a quad core CPU and an
    >>> Intel one appears to be the way to go as Intel CPUs do better in
    >>> this area I believe. You will also probably be loading large files
    >>> on and off disk
    >>> so good sata performance, and since its your Uni work, I'd raid1 the
    >>> disks and backup to DVD/USB sticks (I have a 2gb one inside my PC
    >>> just
    >>> for that)...The intel 10R series of onboard chipsets are the best
    >>> for speed and raid IMHO...
    >>>
    >>> Lots RAM is going to be a must....this will depend on your OS, but
    >>> I'd look for a motherboard supporting 8Gb but start with 2 x 2GB of
    >>> DDR2-800...
    >>>
    >>> So if you get a basic $120 motherboard its going to be limited in
    >>> several areas, it might only have 2 sata channels, its PCI-e slot
    >>> might
    >>> be 16 way physically but the cheap ones are 8 way electrically...and
    >>> its sata performance will be cwap....
    >>>
    >>> So this is pushing us to look at the $200~$250 mark for motherboards
    >>> IMHO.
    >>>
    >>> I would suggest looking at a good motherbaord such as Asus and
    >>> Gigabyte, with 4+ sata channels and capable of 8GB ram
    >>> support....You could go
    >>> AMD but to be honest I would not unless money really is an
    >>> issue......if you were doing general desktop work with games
    >>> yes....when you look at rendering and CAD then from what I have seen
    >>> Intel seems the better performer, you will also have more chance for
    >>> better CPUs as Intel has a higher performance range though at high
    >>> cost.....
    >>>
    >>> But first, I would go look at what the vendor of your CAD program
    >>> recommends for CPU and Ram but also do independant research to
    >>> confirm,
    >>> as these days its not un-usual for companies like Intel etc to offer
    >>> backhanders to others to push their CPUs...
    >>>
    >>> You may also need to consider dual booting a 32bit of your OS and a
    >>> 64bit one...I would not be surprised if the need for lots of Ram
    >>> will dictate that you will need 64bit. 400+ CAD assemblies suggests
    >>> a lot of RAM.
    >>>
    >>> You dont list what sort of Video card but for "real" CAD work, games
    >>> video cards are not the best, you should really look at the
    >>> workstation versions again research is needed here as there maybe
    >>> special extra drivers from the video card vendor and/or CAD vendor
    >>> to make a better match....even for the games cards...
    >>>
    >>> Next point is both Nvidia and ATI are talking about using the
    >>> on-board video on top of the dedicated video card for a performance
    >>> boost, this seem to be happening now, so look for motherboards with
    >>> this feature.
    >>> This will lock you into one video card vendor though...
    >>>
    >>> So if money is tight, I'd get a middle range motherbaord in the $250
    >>> range with an onboard 7100 or 8100 series class video...if you have
    >>> the money 2 x 2 Gb of ram or say 2 x 1GB stick, DDR2 is fone unless
    >>> DDR3 is little more.
    >>>
    >>> Other things to consider is if you need to move large files between
    >>> home and uni an external e-sata/fw/usb2 drive like the seagate
    >>> ones..in
    >>> e-sata mode you will get a high speed transfer, so a motherbaord
    >>> with an e-sata port seems a good idea.

    >>
    >> Thanks for the suggestions, but quad cores, workstation graphics
    >> cards, 8GB Ram and $250 motherboards on a student budget is
    >> somewhat... unrealistic.

    >
    > I would strongly suggest that you consider spending as much as you can
    > muster on a good mid-level P35 / ICH9r mobo, which is likely to cost
    > you in the region of $250. The mobo is the heart of your system and
    > not something you want to upgrade later. As such it makes sense to
    > get something proven reliable and solid. I would suggest an Asus
    > P5K-E as the bare minimum for a mission-critical machine with good
    > connectivity. It'll likely cost you a little less than $250 by the
    > time you pay GST and freight:
    > http://www.nzoczone.com/product_info.php?cPath=32_33&products_id=6288?
    >
    > For an extra $10 you can get the P5K-E/WiFi-AP if you need wireless
    > connectivity.
    >
    > P35 / ICH9r are a great combo and well-proven to be reliable and
    > fast. A machine built around this mobo should last you well and not
    > disappoint.
    > Most any ~$80 graphics card will do as well as your 9600 and for a few
    > dollars more ($113 delivered) you could get something significantly
    > better that might make it less urgent to upgrade for a while:
    >
    > http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=367624


    Just a thought, if you spend more than you could really afford on the mobo
    you could always use a CPU such as a Celeron E1400 2.0GHz dual-core for a
    while. It'll run rings around your old P4 and it costs less than $100:

    http://www.nzoczone.com/product_info.php?cPath=23_24&products_id=7571

    That could tide you over until you could afford something more powerful.
    Once you have a good mobo you have many options.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 14, 2008
    #17
  18. Squiggle

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Somewhere on teh intarweb "thingy" typed:
    >>> Squiggle wrote:
    >>>> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>>>
    >>>> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system,
    >>>> but money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good
    >>>> video card in one hit. So trying to decide between a board with
    >>>> on-board video, or just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I
    >>>> have the $$$ available for a real video card. Current system is
    >>>> AGP & DDR so only carry over parts will be the SATA drives.
    >>>>
    >>>> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like
    >>>> working with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up
    >>>> running a lot of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.
    >>>
    >>> Hi,
    >>>
    >>> OK....you have provided us some detail here to work with....what you
    >>> are going to be running (CAD etc) suggests a quad core CPU and an
    >>> Intel one appears to be the way to go as Intel CPUs do better in
    >>> this area I believe. You will also probably be loading large files
    >>> on and off disk
    >>> so good sata performance, and since its your Uni work, I'd raid1 the
    >>> disks and backup to DVD/USB sticks (I have a 2gb one inside my PC
    >>> just for that)...The intel 10R series of onboard chipsets are the
    >>> best for speed and raid IMHO...
    >>>
    >>> Lots RAM is going to be a must....this will depend on your OS, but
    >>> I'd look for a motherboard supporting 8Gb but start with 2 x 2GB of
    >>> DDR2-800...
    >>> So if you get a basic $120 motherboard its going to be limited in
    >>> several areas, it might only have 2 sata channels, its PCI-e slot
    >>> might be 16 way physically but the cheap ones are 8 way
    >>> electrically...and its sata performance will be cwap....
    >>>
    >>> So this is pushing us to look at the $200~$250 mark for motherboards
    >>> IMHO.
    >>> I would suggest looking at a good motherbaord such as Asus and
    >>> Gigabyte, with 4+ sata channels and capable of 8GB ram
    >>> support....You could go AMD but to be honest I would not unless
    >>> money really is an
    >>> issue......if you were doing general desktop work with games
    >>> yes....when you look at rendering and CAD then from what I have seen
    >>> Intel seems the better performer, you will also have more chance for
    >>> better CPUs as Intel has a higher performance range though at high
    >>> cost.....
    >>> But first, I would go look at what the vendor of your CAD program
    >>> recommends for CPU and Ram but also do independant research to
    >>> confirm, as these days its not un-usual for companies like Intel
    >>> etc to offer
    >>> backhanders to others to push their CPUs...
    >>>
    >>> You may also need to consider dual booting a 32bit of your OS and a
    >>> 64bit one...I would not be surprised if the need for lots of Ram
    >>> will dictate that you will need 64bit. 400+ CAD assemblies suggests
    >>> a lot of RAM.
    >>> You dont list what sort of Video card but for "real" CAD work, games
    >>> video cards are not the best, you should really look at the
    >>> workstation versions again research is needed here as there maybe
    >>> special extra drivers from the video card vendor and/or CAD vendor
    >>> to make a better
    >>> match....even for the games cards...
    >>>
    >>> Next point is both Nvidia and ATI are talking about using the
    >>> on-board video on top of the dedicated video card for a performance
    >>> boost, this seem to be happening now, so look for motherboards with
    >>> this feature. This will lock you into one video card vendor
    >>> though... So if money is tight, I'd get a middle range motherbaord in
    >>> the $250
    >>> range with an onboard 7100 or 8100 series class video...if you have
    >>> the money 2 x 2 Gb of ram or say 2 x 1GB stick, DDR2 is fone unless
    >>> DDR3 is little more.
    >>>
    >>> Other things to consider is if you need to move large files between
    >>> home and uni an external e-sata/fw/usb2 drive like the seagate
    >>> ones..in e-sata mode you will get a high speed transfer, so a
    >>> motherbaord with
    >>> an e-sata port seems a good idea.

    >>
    >> I have to say I largely agree with this. Two things though, the
    >> ICH10r southbridge only seems to be available with the latest
    >> generation northbridge (P45 etc.) so I would think that would put
    >> the board out of the $250 range. IMO and in reviews I've read the
    >> ICH9r should do almost as well anyway and can be found on
    >> time-tested P35 mobos. From what I can tell the 10r is basically
    >> little more than a die-shrink of the 9r.

    >
    > Agree....mostly...I was thinking the later motherboard would allow
    > later gen cpus and not go obsolete quite as quick...but if the $
    > markup is significant then the p35 is a great bargin.


    Yeah, IMO there's no reason to go past the P35. All CPUs that are going to
    be made for Skt 775 will work in it (the new socket / format, 'Nehalem',
    will be out early next year and both P35 and P45 will then be obsolete). The
    only real reason to go P45 / ICH10 is higher officially supported FSB, PCIe
    2.0 implimentation and dual PCIe x 8 lanes. IOW unless you're into
    cutting-edge SLI graphics there's no advantage over the cheaper and
    time-tested P35. (P35 supports the higher FSB settings just fine, just
    'unofficially'.) The advantage of P35 is some mobos have been around a while
    now and any bugs have been shaken out.

    Cheers,
    --
    Shaun.

    DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me
    offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it.
    If you don't know how to ignore a posting, complain to
    me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate... ;-)
     
    ~misfit~, Sep 14, 2008
    #18
  19. Squiggle

    Squiggle Guest

    thingy wrote:
    > Squiggle wrote:


    >>
    >> Thanks for the suggestions, but quad cores, workstation graphics cards,
    >> 8GB Ram and $250 motherboards on a student budget is somewhat...
    >> unrealistic.

    >
    > You dont have to get 8GB straight away and DDR2-800 is cheap...very
    > cheap really. Low end Intel Quad core CPUs can be got for a reasonable
    > amount, or get a low end dual core for now, you could overclock them
    > quite well. $250 for a motherboard sounds a lot but if you find you need
    > addon cards the extra over the cheap board will be surpassed quickly.


    What addon cards do you really need these days? sound and LAN are
    onboard, so once you have something to move pixels pretty much
    everything else you need is taken care of.

    >
    > What is your budget?
    >


    Absolute limit is $1000, but trying to keep in under $800 so I can pick
    up a cheap lappy when a friends company moves building and flicks off
    all the old IT hardware cheap. That needs to cover a decent case,psu
    and cooling solution, Vista Business, RAM, CPU, Motherboard and graphics
    card.
     
    Squiggle, Sep 14, 2008
    #19
  20. Squiggle

    J Brockley Guest

    "Squiggle" <> wrote in message
    news:48cc7931$...
    > OZZY Boy wrote:
    >> On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 17:16:46 +1200, Squiggle <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> As per the topic, are any of the boards with onboard video decent?
    >>>
    >>> Looking at finally retiring the P4 for a C2D or AMD 64x2 system, but
    >>> money is a little tight, can't afford a new box and a good video card in
    >>> one hit. So trying to decide between a board with on-board video, or
    >>> just a <$100 pci-E card to get me thru till I have the $$$ available for
    >>> a real video card. Current system is AGP & DDR so only carry over parts
    >>> will be the SATA drives.
    >>>
    >>> Main reason for upgrading is that the curent system doesn't like working
    >>> with 400 part CAD assemblies, and next year I may end up running a lot
    >>> of FEA and CFD simulations for uni projects.

    >>

    Asus do a few including one with dual head (DVI + VGA) and mine works OK.
    Probably wouldn't use for gaming but does have a PCIe slot for when you want
    something a bit more up market.
     
    J Brockley, Sep 14, 2008
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Mike Timbell
    Replies:
    9
    Views:
    1,513
    Don Wiss
    Nov 13, 2003
  2. todd
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    372
    bodfish
    Oct 28, 2003
  3. Moe Hair
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    371
    NightSky 421
    Dec 14, 2004
  4. Networking Student
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,342
    vreyesii
    Nov 16, 2006
  5. Paul
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    2,090
Loading...

Share This Page