Moonset Over Zion

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by M-M, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. M-M

    M-M Guest

    M-M, Jul 23, 2010
    #1
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  2. M-M

    Peter Guest

    Peter, Jul 23, 2010
    #2
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  3. M-M

    Twibil Guest

    On Jul 23, 6:50 am, M-M <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > Taken inside Zion National Park from the bottom of the canyon.


    Nice photo.

    Makes the viewer stop and think about what he's seeing.

    ~Pete
     
    Twibil, Jul 23, 2010
    #3
  4. M-M

    GMAN Guest

    In article <4c499fe1$0$5504$-secrets.com>, "Peter" <> wrote:
    >"M-M" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Taken inside Zion National Park from the bottom of the canyon.
    >>
    >> http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_23928w.jpg
    >>
    >> --
    >> m-m
    >> http://www.mhmyers.com

    >
    >
    >
    >Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >blurry outline ruins it for me.
    >

    None of you seem happy with anyones effort unless it was "YOU" who took the
    picture, then its a masterpiece. I enjoyed this photo, flaws or no flaws.
     
    GMAN, Jul 23, 2010
    #4
  5. M-M

    Peter Guest

    "GMAN" <> wrote in message
    news:Yuk2o.873794$1.easynews.com...
    > In article <4c499fe1$0$5504$-secrets.com>, "Peter"
    > <> wrote:
    >>"M-M" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Taken inside Zion National Park from the bottom of the canyon.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_23928w.jpg
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> m-m
    >>> http://www.mhmyers.com

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >>blurry outline ruins it for me.
    >>

    > None of you seem happy with anyones effort unless it was "YOU" who took
    > the
    > picture, then its a masterpiece. I enjoyed this photo, flaws or no flaws.



    That is neither a fair, nor true comment. With the exception of our resident
    troll, there have been many compliments and hopeful suggestions. Life is not
    a kindergarten and I am not related to the maker. If an image is submitted
    for critique and I am so inclined I will make what I hope are helpful
    suggestions. Just as when I submit an image in the SI, I hope to get honest
    comment.

    If you like the image, it would be helpful to all of us by saying why you
    like it. That too is helpful critique.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 23, 2010
    #5
  6. M-M

    me Guest

    On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
    <> wrote:


    >Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >blurry outline ruins it for me.



    How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
    sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?
     
    me, Jul 23, 2010
    #6
  7. M-M

    Peter Guest

    "me" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >>blurry outline ruins it for me.

    >
    >
    > How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
    > sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?



    The same way you take a picture of a hummingbird, with its wings frozen,
    with a 28mm f5.6 lens, without strobe.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 23, 2010
    #7
  8. M-M

    me Guest

    On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:25:09 -0400, "Peter"
    <> wrote:

    >"me" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >>>blurry outline ruins it for me.

    >>
    >>
    >> How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
    >> sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?

    >
    >
    >The same way you take a picture of a hummingbird, with its wings frozen,
    >with a 28mm f5.6 lens, without strobe.


    I'm sorry, I must be dense. Can you please be more explicit?
     
    me, Jul 24, 2010
    #8
  9. M-M

    Peter Guest

    "me" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:25:09 -0400, "Peter"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>"me" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >>>>blurry outline ruins it for me.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
    >>> sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?

    >>
    >>
    >>The same way you take a picture of a hummingbird, with its wings frozen,
    >>with a 28mm f5.6 lens, without strobe.

    >
    > I'm sorry, I must be dense. Can you please be more explicit?




    think impossible shot

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 24, 2010
    #9
  10. M-M

    Tim Conway Guest

    "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    news:C86FA051.39A73%...
    >
    >
    >
    > On 7/23/10 3:26 PM, in article ,
    > "me" <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >>> blurry outline ruins it for me.

    >>
    >>
    >> How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
    >> sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?

    >
    > Careful planning.
    >

    Two separate exposures. One focused on moon, other on rocks/trees. Combine
    two in photoshop - masks, layers, combine layers. Voila.
     
    Tim Conway, Jul 24, 2010
    #10
  11. M-M

    Peter Guest

    "Tim Conway" <> wrote in message
    news:i2ddpe$rj7$-september.org...
    >
    > "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    > news:C86FA051.39A73%...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> On 7/23/10 3:26 PM, in article
    >> ,
    >> "me" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >>>> blurry outline ruins it for me.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
    >>> sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?

    >>
    >> Careful planning.
    >>

    > Two separate exposures. One focused on moon, other on rocks/trees.
    > Combine two in photoshop - masks, layers, combine layers. Voila.
    >



    But the question was how to do it in a single shot.
    I would be happy to learn that myself.
    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 24, 2010
    #11
  12. M-M

    M-M Guest

    In article <i2ddpe$rj7$-september.org>,
    "Tim Conway" <> wrote:

    > "George Kerby" <> wrote in message
    > news:C86FA051.39A73%...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > On 7/23/10 3:26 PM, in article ,
    > > "me" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
    > >> <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>> Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    > >>> blurry outline ruins it for me.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
    > >> sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?

    > >
    > > Careful planning.
    > >

    > Two separate exposures. One focused on moon, other on rocks/trees. Combine
    > two in photoshop - masks, layers, combine layers. Voila.


    Bingo!

    m-m
    www.mhmyers.com
     
    M-M, Jul 24, 2010
    #12
  13. M-M

    M-M Guest

    In article <4c4a3f39$0$21179$-secrets.com>,
    "Peter" <> wrote:

    RE: http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_23928w.jpg

    > But the question was how to do it in a single shot.
    > I would be happy to learn that myself.


    You can get them both in focus if the trees are far enough away and both
    are at infinity and your lens is powerful enough focal-length-wise. I
    would like to get a shot of the full-frame moon rising behind a city
    skyline. You have to be many miles away from the city.

    I have been able to get a jet plane crossing the moon with both in focus:

    http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_11664w.jpg

    The issue with this photo however is not the focus but the exposure. It
    is an impossible photo to achieve in a single exposure. The background
    took a 2 sec exposure, the moon only needed 1/125.

    The photo of the moon indeed had the rocks and trees in front of it but
    the background was completely black. So I took an exposure of the rocks
    and trees before the moon set behind it and combined the two.

    Kudos to Tim Conway (my favorite comedian btw) for realizing this. I
    thought the big clue would be the EXIF says 2 sec and there is no way
    the moon would stay sharp with that long of an exposure because (a) the
    earth is rotating and the moon consequently moves across the frame and
    (b) 2 sec would completely overexpose such a bright object.

    --
    m-m
    www.mhmyers.com
     
    M-M, Jul 24, 2010
    #13
  14. M-M

    M-M Guest

    In article <>,
    "Frank ess" <> wrote:


    > >>> Careful planning.
    > >>>
    > >> Two separate exposures. One focused on moon, other on
    > >> rocks/trees. Combine two in photoshop - masks, layers, combine
    > >> layers. Voila.

    > >
    > > Bingo!
    > >
    > > m-m
    > > www.mhmyers.com

    >
    > Voila!
    >
    > http://farm1.static.flickr.com/30/43193577_907f5945dc_o.jpg



    This one is a single exposure. No photoshop at all. Full frame but
    reduced to 25% of original:

    http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_23907w.jpg


    --
    m-m
    http://www.mhmyers.com
     
    M-M, Jul 24, 2010
    #14
  15. M-M

    me Guest

    On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:25:09 -0400, "Peter"
    <> wrote:

    >"me" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:56:50 -0400, "Peter"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    >>>blurry outline ruins it for me.

    >>
    >>
    >> How would you propose to have both the moon and the silhouette both be
    >> sharp in a single shot with 1000mm f.l.?

    >
    >
    >The same way you take a picture of a hummingbird, with its wings frozen,
    >with a 28mm f5.6 lens, without strobe.


    I don't necessarily see the issue with today's sensors. At iso800 in
    bright sunlight you get 1/2000s. I routinely shoot to iso1600 with my
    D300.
    So there is a possibility, no? 28mm, f/5.6 at 3+ ft also has
    sufficient DOF. As opposed to never having enough DOF for the
    original shot.
     
    me, Jul 24, 2010
    #15
  16. M-M

    Peter Guest

    "me" <> wrote in message
    news:...


    > I don't necessarily see the issue with today's sensors. At iso800 in
    > bright sunlight you get 1/2000s. I routinely shoot to iso1600 with my
    > D300.
    > So there is a possibility, no? 28mm, f/5.6 at 3+ ft also has
    > sufficient DOF. As opposed to never having enough DOF for the
    > original shot.


    With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but high
    contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
    did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?


    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 24, 2010
    #16
  17. M-M

    me Guest

    On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:16:03 -0400, "Peter"
    <> wrote:

    >With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but high
    >contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
    >did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?


    I haven't shot jpgs since I originally got my D70. These days I use
    Bibble to convert raw files from my D200/300. It contains a basic
    version of NoiseNinja. I also have the full version of NeatImage and
    can process minimally in Bibble and then use the NI filter in PS. You
    might consider giving either of the free versions of NN/NI a try if
    you don't care to process raw image. That said, I would guess you
    would benefit from raw processing given my experience with early
    morning/late evening wildlife and indoor Arena Racing.
     
    me, Jul 24, 2010
    #17
  18. M-M

    me Guest

    On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:16:03 -0400, "Peter"
    <> wrote:


    >With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but high
    >contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
    >did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?



    BTW, you are aware that above 1600 on the D300 is nothing but pushing
    1600 with additional amplification. So unless you really need it to
    get the shutter speed up, you're not gaining snr.
     
    me, Jul 24, 2010
    #18
  19. M-M

    Peter Guest

    "me" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:16:03 -0400, "Peter"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>With my D300 I start to get significant noise above ISO1600 in low, but
    >>high
    >>contrast light such as night harness racing. All the in camera NR settings
    >>did was blur the image. Have you had any experience with that?

    >
    > I haven't shot jpgs since I originally got my D70. These days I use
    > Bibble to convert raw files from my D200/300. It contains a basic
    > version of NoiseNinja. I also have the full version of NeatImage and
    > can process minimally in Bibble and then use the NI filter in PS. You
    > might consider giving either of the free versions of NN/NI a try if
    > you don't care to process raw image. That said, I would guess you
    > would benefit from raw processing given my experience with early
    > morning/late evening wildlife and indoor Arena Racing.



    I shoot everything in RAW and use ACR for the conversion. I tried converting
    the files using CaptureNX2, but no joy. It seems that the excessive noise
    only appears when there is high contrast lighting present.

    --
    Peter
     
    Peter, Jul 24, 2010
    #19
  20. M-M

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:58:25 -0400, "Peter" <>
    wrote:
    : "GMAN" <> wrote in message
    : news:Yuk2o.873794$1.easynews.com...
    : > In article <4c499fe1$0$5504$-secrets.com>, "Peter"
    : > <> wrote:
    : >>"M-M" <> wrote in message
    : >>news:...
    : >>> Taken inside Zion National Park from the bottom of the canyon.
    : >>>
    : >>> http://www.netaxs.com/~mhmyers/d80/DSC_23928w.jpg
    : >>>
    : >>> --
    : >>> m-m
    : >>> http://www.mhmyers.com
    : >>
    : >>
    : >>
    : >>Interesting effect. I would have liked to see the silhouette sharp. The
    : >>blurry outline ruins it for me.
    : >>
    : > None of you seem happy with anyones effort unless it was "YOU" who took
    : > the picture, then its a masterpiece. I enjoyed this photo, flaws or no
    : > flaws.
    :
    : That is neither a fair, nor true comment. With the exception of our resident
    : troll, there have been many compliments and hopeful suggestions. Life is not
    : a kindergarten and I am not related to the maker. If an image is submitted
    : for critique and I am so inclined I will make what I hope are helpful
    : suggestions. Just as when I submit an image in the SI, I hope to get honest
    : comment.

    GMan's comment is absolutely fair. When you say you'd prefer that the
    silhouette be sharp, that's a valid criticism, even if that sharpness might,
    as someone else suggested, be difficult to achieve. But when you go on to say
    that such an insignificant detail "ruins" the picture, that's plain silly. Is
    Rich Anderson's attitude starting to infect us all, so that nothing that isn't
    perfect is acceptable?

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jul 24, 2010
    #20
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