Monitor for photo editing

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by aa.woods.excess@comcast.net, Jan 2, 2004.

  1. Guest

    Just when I finally have all the equipment ready my monitor
    (viewsonic PT775) is starting to go. I am looking for
    recommendations for a 17 to19 inch monitor that is good for photo
    editing and is available in the US. I do not want to pay much
    over $600 US.

    From the research I have done so far, the Eizo FlexScan T566
    looks promising. However, I would have to order this on faith,
    since it is not carried in the stores. Does anyone have
    experience with this monitor?

    I tried the NEC FE991SB and am bringing it back. I was not happy
    with the say it rendered colors. I tried making endless
    adjustments in the software that came with my video card and was
    unable to get satisfactory results. The monitor seems to be
    designed to run at a gamut setting of 2.2 and does not react well
    to lowering that. I could not find a setting that would give me a
    reasonably close tint across the light spectrum.
    --
    Allan
    Remove ".excess" from address for direct replies.
     
    , Jan 2, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jim Waggener Guest

    <aa.> I tried the NEC FE991SB and am bringing it back. I was not happy
    > with the say it rendered colors. I tried making endless
    > adjustments in the software that came with my video card and was
    > unable to get satisfactory results. The monitor seems to be
    > designed to run at a gamut setting of 2.2 and does not react well
    > to lowering that. I could not find a setting that would give me a
    > reasonably close tint across the light spectrum.
    > --
    > Allan
    > Remove ".excess" from address for direct replies.


    The ViewSonics get good reviews Allan. Check out that line




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    Jim Waggener, Jan 2, 2004
    #2
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  3. LauraK Guest

    >Just when I finally have all the equipment ready my monitor
    >(viewsonic PT775) is starting to go. I am looking for
    >recommendations for a 17 to19 inch monitor that is good for photo
    >editing and is available in the US. I do not want to pay much
    >over $600 US.


    Are you sure it's the monitor? Make sure the video card is in tight and also
    check the cord. I've had a P775 I bought refurbished 4 years ago and gave it
    heavy use. I thought it was dying last but turned out the cord had deteriorated
    where it was bending against the desktop.
    I went ahead and got another refurb Viewsonic anyway (a 21 inch) and now run a
    two-monitor setup with a Viewsonic G810 that I also bought refurbed from
    Viewsonic.
    I don't like the flat monitors with the wires.
    http://store.viewsonic.com/html/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=11746&site=VS
    _OUTLET&respid=22372


    http://www.madmousergraphics.com
    web design, print design, photography
     
    LauraK, Jan 2, 2004
    #3
  4. Flycaster Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Just when I finally have all the equipment ready my monitor
    > (viewsonic PT775) is starting to go. I am looking for
    > recommendations for a 17 to19 inch monitor that is good for photo
    > editing and is available in the US. I do not want to pay much
    > over $600 US.


    For photo editing, a 19" is the minimum size I'd recommend for a CRT.

    > From the research I have done so far, the Eizo FlexScan T566
    > looks promising. However, I would have to order this on faith,
    > since it is not carried in the stores. Does anyone have
    > experience with this monitor?


    Way too expensiive for a 17" monitor. Try Mitsubishi, Illyama, and LaCie.

    > I tried the NEC FE991SB and am bringing it back. I was not happy
    > with the say it rendered colors.


    Actually, those are pretty decent monitors once they're adjusted correctly
    and profiled. Without calibration and profiling, you don't have a clue what
    it will *really* do. Most monitors come from the factory with white points
    of 9500K, briightness set to 100%, and with the blue and green guns turned
    up way too high. This makes 'em look brighter and sharper in the store,
    and, frankly, most folks could give a crap about "color accuracy" anyway.

    >I tried making endless
    > adjustments in the software that came with my video card and was
    > unable to get satisfactory results.


    You should be calibrating and profiling the monitor with something designed
    to do that, not by playing with your Video card driver. Either use a
    hardware package (such as one made by Colorvision or Gretag Macbeth), or by
    using Adobe Gamma, which comes free with Photoshop and Photoshop Elements.

    >The monitor seems to be
    > designed to run at a gamut setting of 2.2 and does not react well
    > to lowering that. I could not find a setting that would give me a
    > reasonably close tint across the light spectrum.


    ALL modern CRT's have a native gamma of close to 2.2. Even on Mac systems,
    most pros who output to photoprinters calibrate to D65 (a white point of
    6500K), and a gamma of 2.2 because of this, plus they tend to work in color
    spaces such as AdobeRGB98 and sRGB, which likewise have a native gamma of
    2.2.

    Nonetheless, your comment about "tint" reveals your *real* problem: you need
    a calibration and profiling package, along with image manipulation software
    that uses color management.




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    Flycaster, Jan 2, 2004
    #4
  5. Guest

    Flycaster wrote:
    ><> wrote in message
    >news:...

    <snip>
    >> From the research I have done so far, the Eizo FlexScan T566
    >> looks promising. However, I would have to order this on faith,
    >> since it is not carried in the stores. Does anyone have
    >> experience with this monitor?


    >Way too expensiive for a 17" monitor. Try Mitsubishi, Illyama, and LaCie.


    I don't consider $430 that bad if it will do the job. I would try
    the other brands if I could actually see one in action.

    >> I tried the NEC FE991SB and am bringing it back. I was not happy
    >> with the say it rendered colors.

    >
    >Actually, those are pretty decent monitors once they're adjusted correctly
    >and profiled. Without calibration and profiling, you don't have a clue what
    >it will *really* do. Most monitors come from the factory with white points
    >of 9500K, briightness set to 100%, and with the blue and green guns turned
    >up way too high. This makes 'em look brighter and sharper in the store,
    >and, frankly, most folks could give a crap about "color accuracy" anyway.


    I realize that. I adjusted these things. I found it curious that
    6500K was not even one of the presets. I set it manually. I put
    brightness way down. The color profiler indicated that a 30%
    setting would be best. However, I fiddled with settings even
    lower than that.
    >>I tried making endless
    >> adjustments in the software that came with my video card and was
    >> unable to get satisfactory results.


    >You should be calibrating and profiling the monitor with something designed
    >to do that, not by playing with your Video card driver. Either use a
    >hardware package (such as one made by Colorvision or Gretag Macbeth), or by
    >using Adobe Gamma, which comes free with Photoshop and Photoshop Elements.


    The software I used is the color profiler that came with my
    Matrox card. At least with my old monitor, I found that it worked
    better than Adobe Gamma.

    >>The monitor seems to be
    >> designed to run at a gamut setting of 2.2 and does not react well
    >> to lowering that. I could not find a setting that would give me a
    >> reasonably close tint across the light spectrum.

    >
    >ALL modern CRT's have a native gamma of close to 2.2. Even on Mac systems,
    >most pros who output to photoprinters calibrate to D65 (a white point of
    >6500K), and a gamma of 2.2 because of this, plus they tend to work in color
    >spaces such as AdobeRGB98 and sRGB, which likewise have a native gamma of
    >2.2.


    One of the attractions of the Eizo is that it allows gamma
    adjustments. I find that adjusting the gamma on the display
    allows me to get a screen image which is closer to the printed
    photo.

    >Nonetheless, your comment about "tint" reveals your *real* problem: you need
    >a calibration and profiling package, along with image manipulation software
    >that uses color management.


    My profiling software and image manipulation software work just
    fine with the PT775. The color management in Photoshop 7 and
    Corel 11 isn't all that bad.
    --
    Allan
    Remove ".excess" from address for direct replies.
     
    , Jan 3, 2004
    #5
  6. Guest

    LauraK wrote:

    >>Just when I finally have all the equipment ready my monitor
    >>(viewsonic PT775) is starting to go. I am looking for
    >>recommendations for a 17 to19 inch monitor that is good for photo
    >>editing and is available in the US. I do not want to pay much
    >>over $600 US.


    >Are you sure it's the monitor? Make sure the video card is in tight and also
    >check the cord. I've had a P775 I bought refurbished 4 years ago and gave it
    >heavy use. I thought it was dying last but turned out the cord had deteriorated
    >where it was bending against the desktop.
    >I went ahead and got another refurb Viewsonic anyway (a 21 inch) and now run a
    >two-monitor setup with a Viewsonic G810 that I also bought refurbed from
    >Viewsonic.


    The monitor loses power entirely. I think its the power supply
    going out. If I unplug the monitor for 10 minutes, it works fine
    again. Sometimes it goes a few days between failures. As far as I
    can tell, the problem comes up most often when I turn the monitor
    back on when it is still warm (which happens when I hit the power
    switch thinking that it is off when its just powered off by
    windows).

    I take it you are happy with the G810? I've had better luck with
    the Ps. a local store has a P220FB which I am thinking about
    trying even though it is larger than I would like.

    Allan
    --
    Allan
    Remove ".excess" from address for direct replies.
     
    , Jan 3, 2004
    #6
  7. Ron Hunter Guest

    wrote:

    > Just when I finally have all the equipment ready my monitor
    > (viewsonic PT775) is starting to go. I am looking for
    > recommendations for a 17 to19 inch monitor that is good for photo
    > editing and is available in the US. I do not want to pay much
    > over $600 US.
    >
    > From the research I have done so far, the Eizo FlexScan T566
    > looks promising. However, I would have to order this on faith,
    > since it is not carried in the stores. Does anyone have
    > experience with this monitor?
    >
    > I tried the NEC FE991SB and am bringing it back. I was not happy
    > with the say it rendered colors. I tried making endless
    > adjustments in the software that came with my video card and was
    > unable to get satisfactory results. The monitor seems to be
    > designed to run at a gamut setting of 2.2 and does not react well
    > to lowering that. I could not find a setting that would give me a
    > reasonably close tint across the light spectrum.


    I am using a Viewsonic F70+ and it is the sharpest, clearest, and most
    color accurate monitor I have ever used (and I have been in IT for 40
    years). I haven't seen anything close, let alone better. You might
    check out this monitor and its big brother the F90+. You will save some
    money.
     
    Ron Hunter, Jan 3, 2004
    #7
  8. Guest

    Ron Hunter wrote:

    >I am using a Viewsonic F70+ and it is the sharpest, clearest, and most
    >color accurate monitor I have ever used (and I have been in IT for 40
    >years). I haven't seen anything close, let alone better. You might
    >check out this monitor and its big brother the F90+. You will save some
    >money.


    Viewsonic hasn't used the F designation for a while, at least in
    the US. I wander whether these would be the same as the P70F and
    P90F. Those monitors sound like they are targeted at the same
    market as my old PT775 (which is so old it doesn't even show up
    on their web site as an old model).
    --
    Allan
    Remove ".excess" from address for direct replies.
     
    , Jan 3, 2004
    #8
  9. Rafe B. Guest

    On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 23:01:51 GMT, wrote:

    >Just when I finally have all the equipment ready my monitor
    >(viewsonic PT775) is starting to go. I am looking for
    >recommendations for a 17 to19 inch monitor that is good for photo
    >editing and is available in the US. I do not want to pay much
    >over $600 US.



    I've been using that exact model for about five years
    now and have yet to see a sharper or brighter screen
    at any size. Couple years back I bought a Viewsonic
    P95F and was quite disappointed, even more so by
    Viewsonic's service. So while I *love* the PT775 that
    I'm using at this moment, I doubt I will buy another one.

    I've been using Dell Trinitron monitors at work for quite
    some time and they are quite decent.

    One of the problems of buying CRTs sight-unseen is
    that they are bulky and heavy as hell. If it goes bad
    and wasn't bought locally, it's a major schlep boxing
    it up and getting it shipped back to the store or the
    manufacturer's repair site.



    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    Rafe B., Jan 3, 2004
    #9
  10. Ron Hunter Guest

    wrote:
    > Ron Hunter wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I am using a Viewsonic F70+ and it is the sharpest, clearest, and most
    >>color accurate monitor I have ever used (and I have been in IT for 40
    >>years). I haven't seen anything close, let alone better. You might
    >>check out this monitor and its big brother the F90+. You will save some
    >>money.

    >
    >
    > Viewsonic hasn't used the F designation for a while, at least in
    > the US. I wander whether these would be the same as the P70F and
    > P90F. Those monitors sound like they are targeted at the same
    > market as my old PT775 (which is so old it doesn't even show up
    > on their web site as an old model).


    The monitors are available at CompUSA and Office Depot, to name just two
    places. I assume they are current models as mine is only a year old.
     
    Ron Hunter, Jan 3, 2004
    #10
  11. Ron Hunter Guest

    Rafe B. wrote:

    > On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 23:01:51 GMT, wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Just when I finally have all the equipment ready my monitor
    >>(viewsonic PT775) is starting to go. I am looking for
    >>recommendations for a 17 to19 inch monitor that is good for photo
    >>editing and is available in the US. I do not want to pay much
    >>over $600 US.

    >
    >
    >
    > I've been using that exact model for about five years
    > now and have yet to see a sharper or brighter screen
    > at any size. Couple years back I bought a Viewsonic
    > P95F and was quite disappointed, even more so by
    > Viewsonic's service. So while I *love* the PT775 that
    > I'm using at this moment, I doubt I will buy another one.
    >
    > I've been using Dell Trinitron monitors at work for quite
    > some time and they are quite decent.


    They are ok if you can stand having two lines across the picture at 1/3
    and 2/3 of the way down. I can't.

    >
    > One of the problems of buying CRTs sight-unseen is
    > that they are bulky and heavy as hell. If it goes bad
    > and wasn't bought locally, it's a major schlep boxing
    > it up and getting it shipped back to the store or the
    > manufacturer's repair site.
    >
    >
    >
    > rafe b.
    > http://www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    Ron Hunter, Jan 3, 2004
    #11
  12. LauraK Guest

    >I take it you are happy with the G810? I've had better luck with
    >the Ps. a local store has a P220FB which I am thinking about
    >trying even though it is larger than I would like.


    I'm very happy with the G810. The wires on the PF series drive me nuts. I had
    one at an old office. I use Illustrator a lot and I keep try to move them,
    thinking they're guidelines.
    The G810 is comparable to the P series.
    If you're thinking about getting the P220FB, check Viewsonic's website. They're
    selling it refurbed for $359.
    I don't know what the shipping would be. When I ordered the G810 from them, it
    said that FEDEX overnight shipping was the same as regular, so I checked that
    option, thinking they would call or e-mail to tell me it was a mistake. They
    didn't. They overnighted me this huge monitor for $15.
    They've probably fixed that by now, but you never know.
    The 21 inch is a big monitor -- it takes some getting used to. But all that
    real estate sure comes in handy.
    If you're happy with the one you've got now, see if you can get it fixed. I'd
    check the Viewsonic site and maybe e-mail them to see if it's a problem they
    know about.


    http://www.madmousergraphics.com
    web design, print design, photography
     
    LauraK, Jan 3, 2004
    #12
  13. Rafe B. Guest

    On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 03:31:32 -0600, Ron Hunter <>
    wrote:


    >They are ok if you can stand having two lines across the picture at 1/3
    >and 2/3 of the way down. I can't.



    I know they're there but they never bothered me or
    interfered with my work. IMO, a tiny price to pay for
    the sharpness, clarity and color saturation.


    rafe b.
    http://www.terrapinphoto.com
     
    Rafe B., Jan 3, 2004
    #13
  14. B. Peg Guest

    > The monitors (i.e. "f" series) are available at CompUSA and Office Depot,
    to name just two
    > places. I assume they are current models as mine is only a year old.


    Yep, saw them there last night. A70f+ and A90f+: $149.97 and $249.97
    respectively.

    The LCD units still have a way to go, imho. Low brightness, poor contrast,
    larger pixels, and lamps that dim over time (interesting note: salesman said
    they rotate the LCD units every 3 months as they darken with age). Tell me
    about it. My pricey SVGA is getting really dark ( 1 1/2 years old. Maybe
    3-4 hours a day usage). Fixing costs about same as newer (lower price too)
    unit. ColorVision's SpyderPro with OptiCal can track the darkening month by
    month (like 3!) until it no longer is usable for good editing. :eek:(

    Back to the good ol' CRT.....

    B~
     
    B. Peg, Jan 3, 2004
    #14
  15. Flycaster Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I don't consider $430 that bad if it will do the job. I would try
    > the other brands if I could actually see one in action.


    You can buy excellent 19" monitors starting at $250, including models of the
    above. The extra 2" makes a big difference. Don't get me wrong, Eizo makes
    a great screen; they're just very expensive. FWIW, neither of my service
    bureaus use them; one uses LaCie, the other Mitsubishi (same tube).
    Regardless, whatever you want to ultimately do will work fine: they're all
    good, and it's your money.

    > I realize that. I adjusted these things. I found it curious that
    > 6500K was not even one of the presets. I set it manually. I put
    > brightness way down. The color profiler indicated that a 30%
    > setting would be best. However, I fiddled with settings even
    > lower than that.


    Some come with presets, others are variable, usually in increments of 100K.
    Most folks recommend 6500K, but the point is to get a white point that
    (according to your eyes) matches the white of your photo paper (ie, neither
    too yellow, nor too blue).

    > >>I tried making endless
    > >> adjustments in the software that came with my video card and was
    > >> unable to get satisfactory results.

    >
    > >You should be calibrating and profiling the monitor with something

    designed
    > >to do that, not by playing with your Video card driver. Either use a
    > >hardware package (such as one made by Colorvision or Gretag Macbeth), or

    by
    > >using Adobe Gamma, which comes free with Photoshop and Photoshop

    Elements.
    >
    > The software I used is the color profiler that came with my
    > Matrox card. At least with my old monitor, I found that it worked
    > better than Adobe Gamma.


    I haven't used it. In what way is it better than Adobe Gamma?

    > One of the attractions of the Eizo is that it allows gamma
    > adjustments. I find that adjusting the gamma on the display
    > allows me to get a screen image which is closer to the printed
    > photo.


    As long as you stay in your closed loop system, that's fine. If you go
    outside to a photolab or a service bureau, however, you are asking for
    problems since they will either be set to 1.8 or 2.2.

    > My profiling software and image manipulation software work just
    > fine with the PT775.


    I thought you said you had a "tint?" Did I misread that? Irrespective, I
    never said your software was bad, rather that you might not have correctly
    run the calibration/profiling.

    >The color management in Photoshop 7 and
    > Corel 11 isn't all that bad.


    Never said it was. In fact, this is the first time you've mentioned either
    one. Color management is a huge improvement over the old days, *but* as you
    know, you do need to get your monitor accurately calibrated and profiled.
    ;)

    Take care and good luck with your purchase. New screens are always fun.




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    Flycaster, Jan 8, 2004
    #15
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