Money? What money? It never existed.

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by joevan, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. joevan

    joevan Guest

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  2. joevan

    chuckcar Guest

    chuckcar, Oct 11, 2008
    #2
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  3. joevan

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    chuckcar added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    ....

    >> http://www.newsweek.com/id/163511?GT1=43002
    >>

    > Money is just a figment of the imagination created by those
    > who want it all.
    >

    Them that has, gets.

    --
    HP, aka Jerry

    "Don't say 'can't' when you really mean 'won't'"
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 12, 2008
    #3
  4. joevan

    Tony Guest

    What about all the money the short sellers like me made last week? For
    every loser like them there's a winner like me. Read the book *the zero sum
    economy* by Lester C Thurow. Well all the cash is now in one of my
    brokerage accounts as i covered my shorts on Friday. It isn't any figment
    of my imagination.

    chuckcar wrote:

    > joevan <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > http://www.newsweek.com/id/163511?GT1=43002
    > >

    > Money is just a figment of the imagination created by those who want it
    > all.
    >
    > --
    > (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )


    --
    The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

    Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

    No, I just decided not to play your silly game is all. *Some* of us know
    proper manners

    Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

    Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

    El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

    Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
    beyond the realm of understandability

    Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
    Tony, Oct 12, 2008
    #4
  5. joevan

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Tony added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

    > What about all the money the short sellers like me made last
    > week? For every loser like them there's a winner like me. Read
    > the book *the zero sum economy* by Lester C Thurow. Well all
    > the cash is now in one of my brokerage accounts as i covered
    > my shorts on Friday. It isn't any figment of my imagination.
    >

    Short sellers should have iron stomachs as their gamble don't
    always pay off, as I'm sure you'd agree. But, unless the SEC
    allowed the short selling ban to expire - don't know, haven't heard
    - I think that program trading is as much or more of a problem in
    manipulating securities prices legally. e.g., when one of us is
    coming into the market as I did to buy GM and Ford on Friday
    morning, the program traders were causing these two companies to
    swing wildly, up to 30%+ from open to low to high to close for the
    day. Thus, although I came in at what I believed to be the right
    time, after the Bush Friday morning speech had it's desired
    negative affect/effect, I somehow managed to get the stock at too
    high a price even though my broker and I were in phone conversation
    for a fair while watching the volatility.

    In short, pun intended, I think that ordinary investors have more
    to fear from gigantic computer banks of lore swooping in according
    to pre-determined criteria and either buying large quantities or
    selling same, and not the short sellers - unless, that is - the
    program traders were in fact also shorts.

    Inccidently, I think that the neatest business in the world is the
    stock brokerage biz. Think about it, Tony, these guys make $$$ on
    both ends of the trade!

    BTW, even if the SEC hadn't shut you down for a time, haven't you
    felt the sting of lack of ability to finance your short sales? Yes,
    I know how shorts work, the idea being to cover your sales costs
    with presumed lower buy costs, but it's a dicey game at best in
    these days of only 3 days to settlement. As to books by stock
    gurus, never touch the stuff. I know of none written by people who
    actually take their own advice during/after the time the book was
    written. Yeah, many have profited in the past which they think will
    convince you they can repeat their charm and many of them are self-
    made wealthy people, but there are about as many prevailing wisdom
    and contrarian views of how, when, and where to invest as their are
    radio and TV shows and books or magazine articles.

    --
    HP, aka Jerry

    "Efficiency is doing things right, effectiveness is doing the right
    things" - Peter Drucker
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 12, 2008
    #5
  6. joevan

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    D. Ismay added these comments in the current discussion du jour
    ....

    >>> [chucktard barfed] Money is just a figment of the
    >>> imagination created by those who want it all.
    >>>

    >> Them that has, gets.

    >
    > ...them thats not shall lose
    > So the bible said, and it still is news.
    > Mama may have, and papa may have
    > But god bless the child
    > That's got his own,
    > That's got his own.
    >
    > [David Clayton Thomas, BS&T
    > Billie Holiday before them]
    >

    My saying was coined by one of my bosses who was also my mentor.
    Doesn't always work like that, but his point was that people of
    means often/usually/always also have the ability to legally or
    illegally obtain the info they need to expand their gains or at
    least minimize their losses. For example, how many millionaires can
    you cite that do not become multi-millionairs or ditto for the
    billionaires?


    --
    HP, aka Jerry

    "Efficiency is doing things right, effectiveness is doing the right
    things" - Peter Drucker
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 12, 2008
    #6
  7. joevan

    Tony Guest

    I was highly leveraged and increased my position 3 fold when the market
    (DJIA) broke through the 10,000 barrier to the downside. I knew full
    well 2007 should've been a 20 to 30 percent down year for the markets
    and somehow through market manipulation they turned it around into a
    positive year. Firstly the DJIA should've never gotten above 10,000
    before the year 2020. Second i put fair market value on the DJIA at
    7,500 last year before this credit crisis shit came about. Now with
    unemployment headed for 10 percent and earning less than half what they
    used to be the bar has gone lower but short term like next week the
    markets will trend slightly higher. After the US election i'm picking
    late April 2009 as the end of the bear market with the DJIA around the
    6,800 mark. My short sales with stock not options or futures weren't
    *naked* shorts the shares of stocks were actually borrowed. I still have
    a heavy short position on onex corporation on the tsx and i'm looking
    for it to go to zero.


    HEMI-Powered wrote:

    > Tony added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
    >
    > > What about all the money the short sellers like me made last
    > > week? For every loser like them there's a winner like me. Read
    > > the book *the zero sum economy* by Lester C Thurow. Well all
    > > the cash is now in one of my brokerage accounts as i covered
    > > my shorts on Friday. It isn't any figment of my imagination.
    > >

    > Short sellers should have iron stomachs as their gamble don't
    > always pay off, as I'm sure you'd agree. But, unless the SEC
    > allowed the short selling ban to expire - don't know, haven't heard
    > - I think that program trading is as much or more of a problem in
    > manipulating securities prices legally. e.g., when one of us is
    > coming into the market as I did to buy GM and Ford on Friday
    > morning, the program traders were causing these two companies to
    > swing wildly, up to 30%+ from open to low to high to close for the
    > day. Thus, although I came in at what I believed to be the right
    > time, after the Bush Friday morning speech had it's desired
    > negative affect/effect, I somehow managed to get the stock at too
    > high a price even though my broker and I were in phone conversation
    > for a fair while watching the volatility.
    >
    > In short, pun intended, I think that ordinary investors have more
    > to fear from gigantic computer banks of lore swooping in according
    > to pre-determined criteria and either buying large quantities or
    > selling same, and not the short sellers - unless, that is - the
    > program traders were in fact also shorts.
    >
    > Inccidently, I think that the neatest business in the world is the
    > stock brokerage biz. Think about it, Tony, these guys make $$$ on
    > both ends of the trade!
    >
    > BTW, even if the SEC hadn't shut you down for a time, haven't you
    > felt the sting of lack of ability to finance your short sales? Yes,
    > I know how shorts work, the idea being to cover your sales costs
    > with presumed lower buy costs, but it's a dicey game at best in
    > these days of only 3 days to settlement. As to books by stock
    > gurus, never touch the stuff. I know of none written by people who
    > actually take their own advice during/after the time the book was
    > written. Yeah, many have profited in the past which they think will
    > convince you they can repeat their charm and many of them are self-
    > made wealthy people, but there are about as many prevailing wisdom
    > and contrarian views of how, when, and where to invest as their are
    > radio and TV shows and books or magazine articles.
    >
    > --
    > HP, aka Jerry
    >
    > "Efficiency is doing things right, effectiveness is doing the right
    > things" - Peter Drucker


    --
    The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

    Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

    No, I just decided not to play your silly game is all. *Some* of us know
    proper manners

    Very few. I used to take calls from *rank* noobs,

    Hamster isn't a newsreader it's a mistake!

    El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar

    Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
    beyond the realm of understandability

    Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday
    Tony, Oct 13, 2008
    #7
  8. joevan

    HEMI-Powered Guest

    Tony added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

    > I was highly leveraged and increased my position 3 fold when
    > the market (DJIA) broke through the 10,000 barrier to the
    > downside. I knew full well 2007 should've been a 20 to 30
    > percent down year for the markets and somehow through market
    > manipulation they turned it around into a positive year.
    > Firstly the DJIA should've never gotten above 10,000 before
    > the year 2020. Second i put fair market value on the DJIA at
    > 7,500 last year before this credit crisis shit came about. Now
    > with unemployment headed for 10 percent and earning less than
    > half what they used to be the bar has gone lower but short
    > term like next week the markets will trend slightly higher.
    > After the US election i'm picking late April 2009 as the end
    > of the bear market with the DJIA around the 6,800 mark. My
    > short sales with stock not options or futures weren't *naked*
    > shorts the shares of stocks were actually borrowed. I still
    > have a heavy short position on onex corporation on the tsx and
    > i'm looking for it to go to zero.
    >

    Thanks.

    So, I am basically right that the credit crunch would've shut
    down the speculators and short sellers even if the SEC hadn't put
    a moratorium on shorts?

    I am sure you know far more than me about the value of stock
    indices here or internationally. People like to quote the Dow,
    which is an extremely narrow and skewed index, because it is easy
    to understand. I stated earlier that for the Dow (and S & P xxx)
    to get back to pre-Black Tuesday levels required about 25 years
    to accomplish, 1954.

    Stock advisors who love to point out that 9 of the last 10 bear
    markets recovered by an average of 33% within 18-24 months - the
    exception being that after 9/11 - what these people fail to note
    is that this is nothing at all like the average bear market nor
    is it anything at all like the Great Depression except maybe that
    Big Government bungling today which is getting ever more
    desparate as it's extreme remedies are failing is the equivalent
    to FDR true failure to reverse much less even halt the decline
    prior to WWII.

    It sounds like you're even more of a contrarian than I am. I do
    not do enough work to be as factual and accurate as you are
    because that isn't my primare source of income but I did begin to
    get hinky about a year ago and got out pretty much except for my
    real does with fleas back in June. I was as much worried about
    how Wall Street might signal it's intent whichever way the
    election actually goes and skew everything so far that ordinary
    "prevailing wisdon", including informed wisdom such as yours,
    would be impossible.

    Glenn Beck, my fav cable news talk show host, has been in your
    camp for over two years now but nobody has listened to him yet.

    Many people agree with you that the bottom will be below 7,000 on
    the Dow, with some even saying will be closer to 6,000. I think
    the effects of the election are now actually lower than what I
    assumed during the conventions because both candidates will be
    simply unable to do much because their hands will be tied by
    Bush/Paulson's committments.

    What's your view of how the Street will take an election of Obama
    vs how it will view a McCain win, and why, please?

    Finally, how are you able to maintain any kind of short position
    since that is presumably prohibited by the SEC? Or, are you
    taking some liberties with the term "short" to mean that you are
    borrowing money to buy stock for real on the if come that you
    can, in effect, sell it short for a profit? With settlements only
    3 days for some time now, how can your possibly predict when to
    buy and sell in a market that is not only heading south like a
    roller coaster down it's first drop but it also is a very good
    roller coaster ride metaphor for volitility?

    --
    HP, aka Jerry

    "Efficiency is doing things right, effectiveness is doing the
    right things" - Peter Drucker
    HEMI-Powered, Oct 13, 2008
    #8
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