Mobiles for VOIP

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Theo Markettos, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. I'm wondering about buying a mobile principally for use as a VOIP client
    over wifi. It's to be bought and used in Sudan, where there's not much
    selection of non-mobile VOIP phones (and offers like Three Skype don't
    exist).

    Due to various double NAT headaches (see my thread on uk.telecom.voip) it
    looks like Skype or IAX are the most robust protocols, but I'd like to keep
    my options open to use SIP too.

    Skype only works on Nokias, with the Windows Mobile client being deprecated.
    I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I'm wary
    about deprecated software.

    IAX is only supported by Zoiper Mobile Beta on Windows Mobile. However I
    prefer Skype as I don't need to run my own IAX server (but I can run a
    Skype-to-SIP gateway later if I want).

    Nokia have a SIP client on various of their S40/S60 phones, and third-party
    clients can be loaded on other of their phones.


    I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I need this
    as bomb-proof as possible. For this reason I'm wary about deprecated or
    beta software. I'd also like as many SIP options I can tweak as possible
    (for example, to try to work around my NAT trouble), because I can't take it
    back once I've bought it.

    I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
    Skype and SIP.

    So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
    mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
    Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
    3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later version?
    Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
    watch for?

    Thanks
    Theo
    Theo Markettos, Apr 21, 2010
    #1
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  2. In article <uVb*>,
    Theo Markettos <> wrote:

    >I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
    >Skype and SIP.
    >
    >So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
    >mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
    >Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
    >3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later version?
    >Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
    >watch for?


    The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
    on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
    over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
    as I live in a 2G only area (O2)

    OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
    Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....

    So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
    SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

    As for battery life - when using Wi-Fi or 3G it's short - but I'm getting
    over 2 days on my N900 using it as a phone with Wi-Fi and data turned off
    (actually hard to keep it off!), but seems to give me all days use with
    Wi-Fi on, but I'm not doing too much on it other than checking twitter,
    making a few calls and playing music...

    No worse than an iPhone, I reckon.

    Gordon
    Gordon Henderson, Apr 21, 2010
    #2
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  3. Theo Markettos

    alexd Guest

    On 21/04/10 20:18, Gordon Henderson wrote:

    > So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
    > SIP phone register to itself and off you go...


    The advantage to this is that if you found IAX is blocked in Sudan, you
    could tunnel it in OpenVPN from an N900.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    21:19:22 up 12 days, 10:36, 2 users, load average: 0.18, 0.77, 0.47
    It is better to have been wasted and then sober
    than to never have been wasted at all
    alexd, Apr 21, 2010
    #3
  4. In uk.telecom.voip Gordon Henderson <> wrote:
    > The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
    > on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
    > over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
    > as I live in a 2G only area (O2)
    >
    > OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
    > Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....
    >
    > So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
    > SIP phone register to itself and off you go...


    I've come up with another idea... Fring. It even works on my geriatric N70
    (client dated 2007). I put in the Mobile Broadband SIM and Skype and SIP
    work acceptably (a little voice breakup, but OK).

    Integration with the phone is good. This approach also allows use away from
    the wifi (by buying a daily Zain internet pass for 1 SDG - about 30p).

    Of course this is only on single NAT. So the question is does Fring work on
    double NAT? It appears to use its own protocol to the Fring servers which
    then turn it into Skype/SIP/etc (a bit like Opera Mini). But I can't work
    out how it behaves when behind double NAT (there's no PC client). Or indeed
    their business model (how they'll break things in future). And they have
    woeful security (you can't change your password. Ever).

    Theo
    Theo Markettos, Apr 21, 2010
    #4
  5. Theo Markettos

    andy Guest

    On 21 Apr, 22:31, Theo Markettos <>
    wrote:
    > In uk.telecom.voip Gordon Henderson <> wrote:
    >
    > > The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
    > > on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
    > > over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
    > > as I live in a 2G only area (O2)

    >
    > > OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
    > > Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....

    >
    > > So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
    > > SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

    >
    > I've come up with another idea... Fring.  It even works on my geriatric N70
    > (client dated 2007).  I put in the Mobile Broadband SIM and Skype and SIP
    > work acceptably (a little voice breakup, but OK).
    >
    > Integration with the phone is good.  This approach also allows use away from
    > the wifi (by buying a daily Zain internet pass for 1 SDG - about 30p).
    >
    > Of course this is only on single NAT.  So the question is does Fring work on
    > double NAT?  It appears to use its own protocol to the Fring servers which
    > then turn it into Skype/SIP/etc (a bit like Opera Mini).  But I can't work
    > out how it behaves when behind double NAT (there's no PC client).  Or indeed
    > their business model (how they'll break things in future).  And they have
    > woeful security (you can't change your password.  Ever).
    >
    > Theo


    I can't tell you anything about NAT, still mysterious to me.

    As well as Fring, look at Nimbuzz. Thus on phones with their own SIP
    client you can give yourself 3 choices.

    Also, you can occasionally find secondhand wi-fi only phones for
    pretty modest prices
    andy, Apr 22, 2010
    #5
  6. Theo Markettos

    Bodincus Guest

    Theo Markettos:
    > In uk.telecom.voip Gordon Henderson <> wrote:
    >> The SIP client on my Nokia E90 was usable, but fiddly to setup. The one
    >> on my N900 is good - easy to setup with multiple accounts. Seems to work
    >> over Wi-Fi and 3G too - although I've yet to make a proper call over 3G
    >> as I live in a 2G only area (O2)
    >>
    >> OK - So i've not tried this, but will soon ... Nokia N900 which can run
    >> Asterisk natively and has a built-in SIP client....
    >>
    >> So load up Asterisk, get it to peer with someone using IAX and have the
    >> SIP phone register to itself and off you go...

    >
    > I've come up with another idea... Fring. It even works on my geriatric N70
    > (client dated 2007). I put in the Mobile Broadband SIM and Skype and SIP
    > work acceptably (a little voice breakup, but OK).
    >
    > Integration with the phone is good. This approach also allows use away from
    > the wifi (by buying a daily Zain internet pass for 1 SDG - about 30p).
    >
    > Of course this is only on single NAT. So the question is does Fring work on
    > double NAT? It appears to use its own protocol to the Fring servers which
    > then turn it into Skype/SIP/etc (a bit like Opera Mini). But I can't work
    > out how it behaves when behind double NAT (there's no PC client). Or indeed
    > their business model (how they'll break things in future). And they have
    > woeful security (you can't change your password. Ever).
    >
    > Theo

    AFAICT Fring works like Skype, with the advantage Fring has servers the
    client authenticates and keeps the connection to, trough any means
    available on the phone. Should be fine on double or multiple NAT, the
    SIP/RTP traffic is only between the Fring servers and your provider.
    It's a bit of a drain on batteries tho, and the voice is a bit laggy.
    But better than nothing tho.
    --
    Bodincus - The Y2K Druid
    ************************
    Law 42 on computing:
    Anything that could fail, will break at the worst possible mom%*= ?@@
    # Access Violation - Core dumped
    # Kernel Panic
    Bodincus, Apr 22, 2010
    #6
  7. Theo Markettos

    Stephen Guest

    On 21 Apr 2010 18:46:32 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
    <> wrote:

    >
    >I'm wondering about buying a mobile principally for use as a VOIP client
    >over wifi. It's to be bought and used in Sudan, where there's not much
    >selection of non-mobile VOIP phones (and offers like Three Skype don't
    >exist).
    >

    You need fairly uncongested Internet access in the country to get any
    of Voip to work well
    - do you have any info on what you can expect for Internet thruput to
    the countries your VoIP will need to get to?

    >Due to various double NAT headaches (see my thread on uk.telecom.voip) it
    >looks like Skype or IAX are the most robust protocols, but I'd like to keep
    >my options open to use SIP too.
    >
    >Skype only works on Nokias, with the Windows Mobile client being deprecated.
    >I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I'm wary
    >about deprecated software.
    >
    >IAX is only supported by Zoiper Mobile Beta on Windows Mobile. However I
    >prefer Skype as I don't need to run my own IAX server (but I can run a
    >Skype-to-SIP gateway later if I want).
    >
    >Nokia have a SIP client on various of their S40/S60 phones, and third-party
    >clients can be loaded on other of their phones.
    >
    >
    >I need this to run with no maintenance once I've set it up, so I need this
    >as bomb-proof as possible. For this reason I'm wary about deprecated or
    >beta software. I'd also like as many SIP options I can tweak as possible
    >(for example, to try to work around my NAT trouble), because I can't take it
    >back once I've bought it.
    >
    >I suppose I'm limited to the Nokia phones that have wifi and can do both
    >Skype and SIP.
    >
    >So any comments on this strategy? In particular how reliable are these
    >mobile apps compared with a hardware VOIP phone? It seems that different
    >Nokias have different versions of their SIP client (2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 3.0,
    >3.1)? Is there much to be gained by going for a phone with a later version?
    >Does VOIP still cause significant battery drain? Any other things I should
    >watch for?
    >
    >Thanks
    >Theo

    Stephen
    --
    Regards

    - replace xyz with ntl
    Stephen, Apr 22, 2010
    #7
  8. In uk.telecom.mobile andy <> wrote:
    > As well as Fring, look at Nimbuzz. Thus on phones with their own SIP
    > client you can give yourself 3 choices.


    Thanks, I'll have a look. Currently the N70 is driving me up the wall
    refusing to connect to the network, not giving me traffic, or automatically
    connecting to the wrong APN. I'm not sure if this is the result of Fring
    (which starts automatically), but Fring has frozen the phone solid (to the
    extent of taking out the battery a few times). Which is disappointing as it
    worked nicely the first time I installed it.

    > Also, you can occasionally find secondhand wi-fi only phones for
    > pretty modest prices


    Unfortunately, not in Africa you don't. Think battered dusty ancient phones
    in the market for about the new price (even when you haggle) :(

    Theo
    Theo Markettos, Apr 23, 2010
    #8
  9. In uk.telecom.mobile Stephen <> wrote:
    > You need fairly uncongested Internet access in the country to get any
    > of Voip to work well
    > - do you have any info on what you can expect for Internet thruput to
    > the countries your VoIP will need to get to?


    A quick test on speedtest.net suggests somewhere between 0.3-1Mbit/s down
    and 0.3Mbit/s up (I think that's because there's no HSUPA).

    Fring (less than 2KB/s each up and down) works OK - with a little breakup.
    I think once a stream is running it's OK, but getting connections up is slow
    (DNS is poor, for example, and HTTP goes through a China-style firewall).
    Skype seems to be OK.

    Theo
    Theo Markettos, Apr 23, 2010
    #9
  10. In uk.telecom.voip R. Mark Clayton <> wrote:
    > This does work, but is fiddly to set up, but once done it works very well
    > and reliably.
    >
    > The SIP works fine over wi-fi, with good call quality, quick set up etc.


    Well, that rather depends on what's at the other end of the wifi. I assume
    you mean ADSL or cable? Here it's a router with a builtin 3G dongle, so
    it's pretty much the same whether it's over wifi or the phone does the 3G.

    > There is a slight increase in battery drain.


    That's useful to know... I did wonder if such apps ate batteries for
    breakfast. If you leave such an app on all the time, how much battery life
    do you get?

    > Unexpectedly once set up over wi-fi it also works over 3G outbound and less
    > reliably inbound (if you are mobile), however the call quality is poor and
    > most service providers will cut you off if they notice.


    What do you mean that it's less reliable inbound? That registration fails
    because it doesn't send keepalive packets?

    Theo
    Theo Markettos, Apr 23, 2010
    #10
  11. Theo Markettos

    Graham. Guest

    "Theo Markettos" <> wrote in message news:uVb*...
    > In uk.telecom.mobile andy <> wrote:
    >> As well as Fring, look at Nimbuzz. Thus on phones with their own SIP
    >> client you can give yourself 3 choices.

    >
    > Thanks, I'll have a look. Currently the N70 is driving me up the wall
    > refusing to connect to the network, not giving me traffic, or automatically
    > connecting to the wrong APN. I'm not sure if this is the result of Fring
    > (which starts automatically), but Fring has frozen the phone solid (to the
    > extent of taking out the battery a few times). Which is disappointing as it
    > worked nicely the first time I installed it.
    >
    >> Also, you can occasionally find secondhand wi-fi only phones for
    >> pretty modest prices

    >
    > Unfortunately, not in Africa you don't. Think battered dusty ancient phones
    > in the market for about the new price (even when you haggle) :(
    >
    > Theo


    Don't you have ebay?

    --
    Graham.

    %Profound_observation%
    Graham., May 28, 2010
    #11
  12. Theo Markettos

    mnmaria20

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    http://www.mobile-phone.pk

    this is a very nice and impressive web site which is one of the best for getting information about mobile-phone.pk mobile prices in Pakistan which is more helpful for all the users of mobile.
    mnmaria20, Sep 30, 2010
    #12
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