Mobile VOIP Access (With PDA?)

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Daviey, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. Daviey

    Daviey Guest

    Ivor Please Ignore - I am not advertising TMobile.

    I am interested in VOIP over mobile networks. Previously i didn't
    consider GPRS to be fast enough for voip access.

    3g seemed too expensive and unworthwhile. However Tmobile have released
    a new product. 10GB cap £22.50 p/m
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/29/tmobile_voip_tariff/

    This, in my opinion has made VOIP over mobile viable. Has anybody else
    looked into this? I reckon conventional mobiles wouldn't really support
    it, but PDA's might - with the right software.

    Has anybody any experience with PDA's, VOIP and 3G?

    The 3g connection would have to be constant to accept incoming calls, is
    this possible with PDA's? Can you easily VPN into a VOIP PBX?
    Daviey, Oct 6, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Daviey

    Guest

    On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 14:40:42 GMT, Daviey
    <> wrote:

    >Ivor Please Ignore - I am not advertising TMobile.

    Why bother Ivor don't own this group although he thinks he does
    you only need to just whisper the name of a company and he will accuse
    you of being a spammer.
    Damn the man .
    , Oct 6, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Daviey

    mattpark Guest

    mattpark, Oct 6, 2006
    #3
  4. Daviey

    cybuerke Guest

    wrote:
    > On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 14:40:42 GMT, Daviey
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Ivor Please Ignore - I am not advertising TMobile.

    > Why bother Ivor don't own this group although he thinks he does
    > you only need to just whisper the name of a company and he will accuse
    > you of being a spammer.
    > Damn the man .


    Ivor will not bite. He is above that. He is finding inner peace.

    Now then, may I help you with anything?
    cybuerke, Oct 6, 2006
    #4
  5. Daviey

    Daviey Guest

    Re: re:Mobile VOIP Access (With PDA?)

    On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 15:41 +0000, mattpark wrote:
    > Your out of luck.
    >
    > I think you will find that T mobile have placed a ban on all VoIP
    > activited accross their network
    >
    >
    > See this report:
    > http://ukvoiptalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=39&highlight=tmobile
    > ---
    > External Post from http://ukvoiptalk.com


    I have been watching that closely but the link in my original posting
    says that they have dropped it.

    But to be honest, if you could route it through a VPN then they could
    not stop you using VOIP as they would have no way of knowing.
    Daviey, Oct 6, 2006
    #5
  6. Daviey

    NicHughes Guest

    Daviey wrote:
    > Ivor Please Ignore - I am not advertising TMobile.
    >
    > I am interested in VOIP over mobile networks. Previously i didn't
    > consider GPRS to be fast enough for voip access.
    >
    > 3g seemed too expensive and unworthwhile. However Tmobile have released
    > a new product. 10GB cap £22.50 p/m
    > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/29/tmobile_voip_tariff/
    >


    If you want to make *lots* of VoIP calls it could be worth your while.
    Bear in mind that this is on top of your monthly rental so for less
    total money you could have 900 inclusive minutes on flext price plan
    anyway.

    Exactly how many minutes you would get in 10GB would vary according to
    protocol and compression used but I think you would need the phone
    pretty much stuck to your ear to see any real cost benefit. Which is
    presumably what T-Mobile are banking on - the mobile operators are
    generally about as keen on replacing voice calls with VoIP as turkeys
    are on Xmas.

    >
    > The 3g connection would have to be constant to accept incoming calls, is
    > this possible with PDA's? Can you easily VPN into a VOIP PBX?


    I suggest that tunneling any VoIP protocol is not for the
    faint-hearted, the simpler tunneling techniques do not work with UDP.
    Setting up VPN from a PDA to a server is going to depend on your PDA,
    your server and very probably what switches/routers you have between
    them.

    --
    Nic
    NicHughes, Oct 6, 2006
    #6
  7. Daviey

    Guest

    On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:46:17 +0100, "cybuerke"
    <> wrote:


    >Now then, may I help you with anything?

    Yes tell me how to get a certain useless voip provider stopped from
    offering its services in the UK .
    , Oct 6, 2006
    #7
  8. Daviey

    Daviey Guest

    On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 19:38 +0000, wrote:
    > On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:46:17 +0100, "cybuerke"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >Now then, may I help you with anything?

    > Yes tell me how to get a certain useless voip provider stopped from
    > offering its services in the UK .


    Dex, comments like that really don't help you! Personally i use
    Sipgate, but disagree with Ivor's unrelenting 'selling' of it.
    Especially if somebody else mentions a company he flames them as
    spamming.

    However, you really shouldn't make digs you above, as it adds substance
    to his argument.
    Daviey, Oct 6, 2006
    #8
  9. Daviey

    Daviey Guest

    On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 11:04 -0700, NicHughes wrote:
    > Daviey wrote:

    <SNIP>
    > >

    >
    > If you want to make *lots* of VoIP calls it could be worth your while.
    > Bear in mind that this is on top of your monthly rental so for less
    > total money you could have 900 inclusive minutes on flext price plan
    > anyway.
    >

    <SNIP>

    Nic, thank you for taking the time to post your comments. However, the
    real attraction to this new service is that it appears to be purely a
    data bundle as it mentions on the link i originally posted: "It'll cost
    consumer punters £22.50 as a standalone product and £44 for suits, who
    get voice bundled in."

    The real benefit of this service is not saving money in calls, as i'm
    not a huge user - it's the added benefit of having a fast Internet
    connection for other Internet purposes for a few extra pounds a month.
    Also my mobile number can be a standard area-code / or an extension on
    my current PBX. And the other benefit is the most important - novelty!

    > I suggest that tunneling any VoIP protocol is not for the
    > faint-hearted, the simpler tunneling techniques do not work with UDP.
    > Setting up VPN from a PDA to a server is going to depend on your PDA,
    > your server and very probably what switches/routers you have between
    > them.
    >
    > --
    > Nic
    >


    I'm not at all concerned with the server side of VPN as i currently have
    a functional OpenVPN configuration that works with my current asterisk
    setup. The real concern is how well PDA's work with it - as i'm
    currently looking to purchase one.

    Thanks again for your feedback Nic.
    Daviey, Oct 6, 2006
    #9
  10. Daviey

    NicHughes Guest

    Daviey wrote:
    > On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 11:04 -0700, NicHughes wrote:
    > > Daviey wrote:

    > <SNIP>
    > > >

    > >
    > > If you want to make *lots* of VoIP calls it could be worth your while.
    > > Bear in mind that this is on top of your monthly rental so for less
    > > total money you could have 900 inclusive minutes on flext price plan
    > > anyway.
    > >

    > <SNIP>
    >
    > Nic, thank you for taking the time to post your comments. However, the
    > real attraction to this new service is that it appears to be purely a
    > data bundle as it mentions on the link i originally posted: "It'll cost
    > consumer punters £22.50 as a standalone product and £44 for suits, who
    > get voice bundled in."
    >


    Web'n'walk currently works as a standalone for laptops (with a
    datacard) or a free-standing addon to their monthly tariffs for
    mobiles. I'd wait to see the actual product announcement before
    assuming that this is approach is being thrown away by T-Mobile. If all
    you want do do is put a data-only (i.e. no phone calls at all) SIM into
    a PDA you can already do that by taking the SIM out of a datacard -
    although I would agree that the new T-Mobile deal will be a good bundle
    for heavy data users (and way cheaper than the Vodafone equivalent, for
    example).

    Bear in mind that on a data-only tariff it will not functionally be a
    phone - its a super-portable computer with a better form factor for
    VoIP than your average hardware. If you do go for it let us know how
    you get on, I'm sure there will be interesting challenges along the
    way.

    --
    Nic
    NicHughes, Oct 6, 2006
    #10
  11. Daviey

    cybuerke Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:46:17 +0100, "cybuerke"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Now then, may I help you with anything?

    > Yes tell me how to get a certain useless voip provider stopped from
    > offering its services in the UK .


    That's an easy one. It's called market forces. Ask a Gossiptel subscriber.
    A lame duck will eventually be gobbled up by the predators. Keep an eye on
    Vonage's share price if you intend to stay with them for more than a few
    months.
    cybuerke, Oct 6, 2006
    #11
  12. Daviey

    NicHughes Guest

    Daviey wrote:

    >
    > Nic, thank you for taking the time to post your comments. However, the
    > real attraction to this new service is that it appears to be purely a
    > data bundle as it mentions on the link i originally posted: "It'll cost
    > consumer punters £22.50 as a standalone product and £44 for suits, who
    > get voice bundled in."
    >


    I just had another look at the T-Mobile site and I suspect el-reg was
    reporting PR fluff that turned out not quite to match reality. The
    tariffs are now up and appear to be:

    For a datacard only the cost is £44 per month for the big bundle.
    To have it on a phone of any sort it will cost £57.50 for the VoIP
    enabled package.

    http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/Dispatcher?menuid=pp_webnwalk_laptop

    Broadly comparable with other operators then.

    As the Register reported its only the -Max version that seems to permit
    VoIP, expect it to be blocked on other tariffs. Whether you can evade
    their blocks is down to your ingenuity I suppose :)

    --
    Nic
    NicHughes, Oct 6, 2006
    #12
  13. Daviey

    Herman Guest

    Aidan Whitehouse 12 MacKenzie Close SWINDON SN3 6JR England t +44 1793
    686423 t +31 187 712002 f +44 870 0633811 m +44 7977 096675
    http://aidanwhitehouse.homeip.net/
    "cybuerke" <> wrote in message
    news:eg6kd1$tta$2surf.net...
    >
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:46:17 +0100, "cybuerke"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Now then, may I help you with anything?

    >> Yes tell me how to get a certain useless voip provider stopped from
    >> offering its services in the UK .

    >
    > That's an easy one. It's called market forces. Ask a Gossiptel
    > subscriber. A lame duck will eventually be gobbled up by the predators.
    > Keep an eye on Vonage's share price if you intend to stay with them for
    > more than a few months.
    >

    I've been with Vonage for 12 months... and also Sipgate. Both are as liable
    as the other to go under in an emerging market. Doesn't stop you betting on
    more than one horse.
    Herman, Oct 7, 2006
    #13
  14. Daviey

    Daviey Guest

    On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 15:34 -0700, NicHughes wrote:
    > Daviey wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Nic, thank you for taking the time to post your comments. However, the
    > > real attraction to this new service is that it appears to be purely a
    > > data bundle as it mentions on the link i originally posted: "It'll cost
    > > consumer punters £22.50 as a standalone product and £44 for suits, who
    > > get voice bundled in."
    > >

    >
    > I just had another look at the T-Mobile site and I suspect el-reg was
    > reporting PR fluff that turned out not quite to match reality. The
    > tariffs are now up and appear to be:
    >
    > For a datacard only the cost is £44 per month for the big bundle.
    > To have it on a phone of any sort it will cost £57.50 for the VoIP
    > enabled package.
    >
    > http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/Dispatcher?menuid=pp_webnwalk_laptop
    >
    > Broadly comparable with other operators then.
    >
    > As the Register reported its only the -Max version that seems to permit
    > VoIP, expect it to be blocked on other tariffs. Whether you can evade
    > their blocks is down to your ingenuity I suppose :)
    >
    > --
    > Nic
    >


    Hi Nic,

    I just had a look at all their packages and they have been quite sneaky!
    The package that the reg' refers to is called 'Flext + web 'n talk.'
    Strictly speaking it's not a data package.

    £22.50 p/m with unlimited 3g access & £34 worth of Mins/SMS/MMS per
    month.

    Surely i am mistaken!
    Daviey, Oct 7, 2006
    #14
  15. Daviey

    Ivor Jones Guest

    "Daviey" <> wrote in
    message news:1160166565.13907.4.camel@localhost
    > On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 19:38 +0000,
    > wrote:
    > > On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:46:17 +0100, "cybuerke"
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > > Now then, may I help you with anything?

    > > Yes tell me how to get a certain useless voip provider
    > > stopped from offering its services in the UK .

    >
    > Dex, comments like that really don't help you!
    > Personally i use Sipgate, but disagree with Ivor's
    > unrelenting 'selling' of it. Especially if somebody else
    > mentions a company he flames them as spamming.


    Sorry, I have to dive in here. I do not "sell" Sipgate, either relenting
    or unrelenting. I have no financial connection with them so I can't. I do
    however recommend them as a satisfied customer, and I have no problem with
    anyone doing that with any provider, just as long as they don't slag off
    someone else in the process.

    However where I draw the line is when someone is obviously advertising by
    mentioning prices etc. I don't call anyone a spammer if they just mention
    someone.

    Dexter says he is a satisfied customer of Voiptalk or whoever, good for
    him, you don't see me saying I think they are crap and everyone should use
    Sipgate, do you..? If you genuinely think this, please point me at a post
    where I said it.



    Ivor
    Ivor Jones, Oct 7, 2006
    #15
  16. Daviey

    NicHughes Guest

    Daviey wrote:

    >
    > I just had a look at all their packages and they have been quite sneaky!
    > The package that the reg' refers to is called 'Flext + web 'n talk.'
    > Strictly speaking it's not a data package.
    >
    > £22.50 p/m with unlimited 3g access & £34 worth of Mins/SMS/MMS per
    > month.
    >
    > Surely i am mistaken!


    I'm afraid that does look about right.

    If you want data only you would need a datacard sim. I have tried this
    with another operator and it did work in a phone but of course the
    phone will no longer handle normal phone calls at all but is entirely
    dependent on the data channel.

    As I said elsewhere, mobile telcos deciding to let people use VoIP
    instead of voice minutes would be very like turkeys voting for Xmas -
    its not likely to happen no matter how much the consumer might like
    their Xmas dinner.

    The Register - to be fair to them - reported the PR fluff accurately
    but the PR was potentially misleading. Who ever heard of such a thing,
    PR designed to create hype and stir up interest!

    --
    Nic
    NicHughes, Oct 7, 2006
    #16
  17. Daviey

    alexd Guest

    NicHughes wrote:

    > The Register - to be fair to them - reported the PR fluff accurately
    > but the PR was potentially misleading. Who ever heard of such a thing,
    > PR designed to create hype and stir up interest!


    It's also highly unlike The Register to take a press release, change a few
    of the words, and publish it as a 'story'.

    --
    <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) ()
    08:34:18 up 2 days, 14:45, 3 users, load average: 1.10, 0.90, 0.54
    This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK
    alexd, Oct 8, 2006
    #17
  18. Daviey

    stephen Guest

    "Daviey" <> wrote in message
    news:1160145800.12725.5.camel@localhost...
    >This, in my opinion has made VOIP over mobile viable. Has anybody else
    >looked into this? I reckon conventional mobiles wouldn't really support
    >it, but PDA's might - with the right software.


    you can get a "softphone" for various PDAs that works with wireless LAN - i
    have seen demos of the old Compaq windows PDAs used this way - so 3G
    shouldnt be a big issue as long as you can get the interface sorted.

    >Has anybody any experience with PDA's, VOIP and 3G?


    Not together, but all 3 separately :)

    the killer may be the latency on the 3G network - when i use it for data
    with a VPN the end to end round trip delay averages several 100 mSec, and it
    peaks at well over 1 Sec. I suspect that latency and jitter would make the
    speech difficult to sort.

    >The 3g connection would have to be constant to accept incoming calls, is
    >this possible with PDA's?


    Think so, although it is going to seriously hurt battery life. if the screen
    needs to be on battery life on my Palm T5 PDA will limit at 4 or 5 hours.

    Also the Lithium Ion cells these things use dont last forever, and they
    gradually lose the ability to hold charge, so battery life will reduce over
    time.

    >Can you easily VPN into a VOIP PBX?


    Even if you cant, a separate VPNserver can terminate the tunnel - but that
    would need you to sort out the PBX bit (or send the traffic to your
    broadband etc etc - all of which will increase latency).

    --
    Regards

    - replace xyz with ntl
    stephen, Oct 8, 2006
    #18
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