minor D70 gotchas fixable in firmware

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Stanley Krute, Apr 19, 2004.

  1. It seems as if the possibility exists for Nikon to
    amend a few D70 glitches in firmware. Paraphrasing
    Thom Hogan (excellent review is here: http://bythom.com/D70REVIEW.HTM ),
    the two big items would be:

    [1] No uncompressed NEF

    [2] No choice of size and type of JPEG
    when shooting NEF+JPEG

    Anyone wanna guess if Nikon will fix those items ?

    My own sniff, given the non-feature-crippling
    of the D70 as opposed to the 300D, is that they
    might.

    Regards,

    Stan
    Stanley Krute, Apr 19, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Stanley Krute

    Paul Howland Guest

    Stanley Krute wrote:
    > It seems as if the possibility exists for Nikon to
    > amend a few D70 glitches in firmware. Paraphrasing
    > Thom Hogan (excellent review is here: http://bythom.com/D70REVIEW.HTM ),
    > the two big items would be:
    >
    > [1] No uncompressed NEF
    >
    > [2] No choice of size and type of JPEG
    > when shooting NEF+JPEG
    >
    > Anyone wanna guess if Nikon will fix those items ?
    >
    > My own sniff, given the non-feature-crippling
    > of the D70 as opposed to the 300D, is that they
    > might.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Stan


    Why would you want uncompressed NEF? Hardly a glitch in my opinion.
    Not all compression algorithms result in image loss.
    Paul Howland, Apr 19, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Stanley Krute wrote:

    > [1] No uncompressed NEF


    You don't have the need for an uncompressed NEF as the compressed NEF
    gives you exactly the same information (compression is lossless) and the
    camera has enough processing power to do the compression without slowing
    the pace at which you can take the photos.

    > [2] No choice of size and type of JPEG
    > when shooting NEF+JPEG


    There you have a point... this would be nice :)
    Yves Deweerdt, Apr 20, 2004
    #3
  4. Yves Deweerdt <> writes:

    >> [2] No choice of size and type of JPEG
    >> when shooting NEF+JPEG


    >There you have a point... this would be nice :)


    It could be deliberate. The camera may not have the signal processing
    capability to do the NEF processing *and* resizing the data for a
    smaller JPEG without slowing down the shooting rate. Of course, they
    could have given you the option and warned you that it would be slower,
    but this might not be a "free" feature.

    Dave
    Dave Martindale, Apr 20, 2004
    #4
  5. Dave Martindale wrote:
    > Yves Deweerdt <> writes:
    >
    >
    >>>[2] No choice of size and type of JPEG
    >>> when shooting NEF+JPEG

    >
    >
    >>There you have a point... this would be nice :)

    >
    >
    > It could be deliberate. The camera may not have the signal processing
    > capability to do the NEF processing *and* resizing the data for a
    > smaller JPEG without slowing down the shooting rate. Of course, they
    > could have given you the option and warned you that it would be slower,
    > but this might not be a "free" feature.
    >
    > Dave


    You have a point too :)
    I see only 2 possible influence factors for this decision...
    first is processing power to do the compression, and second is the
    throughput to the memory card...
    Probably the Large BASIC JPEG was the optimal solution here... as Large
    FINE JPEG would require more throughput and the smaller formats maybe
    required more processing power...

    I've been thinking however (and it hurt like hell ;-) )
    I didn't search for it yet in the Nikon View software, but if I can find
    a batch mode over there to make jpegs out of all my NEF files or even
    better, a command line tool to create jpegs out of a NEF, I would never
    use the NEF+JPEG mode again...
    Now I stil write NEF+JPEG to card because I want the JPEG to create
    slideshows, to show to friends, or to put next the NEF files when I
    archive them to CD or DVD, so I can see what's on it without having to
    have support for NEF files on that PC...

    So if I can create the jpegs on my pc in about 2 seconds, the NEF+JPEG
    feature is worthless to me ;-)

    Hmmm, must investigate this, when I get home...

    Regards,

    Yves
    Yves Deweerdt, Apr 20, 2004
    #5
  6. Yves Deweerdt <> writes:

    >You have a point too :)
    >I see only 2 possible influence factors for this decision...
    >first is processing power to do the compression, and second is the
    >throughput to the memory card...


    Allowing you to make smaller JPEGs reduces memory card traffic, so I
    can't see that as a reason not to offer the choice.

    What I was thinking of is this: The camera data flow for NEF looks
    something like

    - read CCD
    - compress losslessly
    - write to card

    The flow for JPEG looks something like

    - read CCD
    - Bayer interpolation
    - (optional resize)
    - white balance/contrast/saturation/sharpen
    - JPEG encoding (which is several phases itself)

    These operations are done in any particular camera using a set of
    hardware building blocks. If it happens that the "resize" step for JPEG
    output uses the same hardware as the "compress" step for NEF output,
    but the rest of the JPEG processing is done on different hardware,
    then both images can be produced in parallel as long as you don't
    require the resize step.

    Dave
    Dave Martindale, Apr 20, 2004
    #6
  7. Dave Martindale wrote:
    > Yves Deweerdt <> writes:
    >
    >
    >>You have a point too :)
    >>I see only 2 possible influence factors for this decision...
    >>first is processing power to do the compression, and second is the
    >>throughput to the memory card...

    >
    >
    > Allowing you to make smaller JPEGs reduces memory card traffic, so I
    > can't see that as a reason not to offer the choice.


    What I meant is this: if with a Large Fine JPEG exceeds the memory card
    bandwidth and with the resizing in combination with the NEF exceeds the
    processing capabilities, a Large Basic JPEG might be the only "possible"
    combination...
    You have 9 combinations (Large Medium Small) x (Basic Normal Fine)
    suppose that their hardware is build in a way that making a Small Basic
    JPEG can not be done because of the limited processing power.
    and the Large Fine JPEG can not be done, because it would require more
    bandwidth to the memory card then is available...
    Resulting in lets say 3 of the 9 combinations would be possible with
    this hardware, what would you offer?

    For the explanation above I assumed that a higher compression ratio
    requires more processing power...
    Can you tell me: JPEG compression with a higher compression ratio
    (BASIC), does it take more calculations than JPEG compression with a
    lower compression ratio (FINE)? And how much is the difference?

    BTW I've checked, there is a batch conversion option in the Nikon View
    software, so my camera will be in RAW mode any time now :)

    Yves
    Yves Deweerdt, Apr 21, 2004
    #7
  8. Yves Deweerdt <> writes:

    >For the explanation above I assumed that a higher compression ratio
    >requires more processing power...
    >Can you tell me: JPEG compression with a higher compression ratio
    >(BASIC), does it take more calculations than JPEG compression with a
    >lower compression ratio (FINE)? And how much is the difference?


    I expect it's the other way around. For any given image size in pixels,
    you have to do the colour space conversion and the DCT steps on the full
    input image. A higher compression simply discards more of the bits left
    after the DCT step, and thus there is less data to Huffman encode. So
    the low-compression "fine" output should take somewhat more CPU time as
    well as producing a larger output file.

    On the other hand, a smaller image size is likely substantially
    cheaper, since the image would be resized first and the JPEG steps
    would be done on the resulting smaller image.

    Dave
    Dave Martindale, Apr 21, 2004
    #8
  9. Stanley Krute

    Giles Morant Guest

    On Tue, 20 Apr 2004 19:05:56 +0200, Yves Deweerdt wrote:

    > Dave Martindale wrote:
    >> Yves Deweerdt <> writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>>>[2] No choice of size and type of JPEG
    >>>> when shooting NEF+JPEG

    >>
    >>
    >>>There you have a point... this would be nice :)

    >>
    >>
    >> It could be deliberate. The camera may not have the signal processing
    >> capability to do the NEF processing *and* resizing the data for a
    >> smaller JPEG without slowing down the shooting rate. Of course, they
    >> could have given you the option and warned you that it would be slower,
    >> but this might not be a "free" feature.
    >>
    >> Dave

    >
    > You have a point too :)
    > I see only 2 possible influence factors for this decision...
    > first is processing power to do the compression, and second is the
    > throughput to the memory card...
    > Probably the Large BASIC JPEG was the optimal solution here... as Large
    > FINE JPEG would require more throughput and the smaller formats maybe
    > required more processing power...
    >
    > I've been thinking however (and it hurt like hell ;-) )
    > I didn't search for it yet in the Nikon View software, but if I can find
    > a batch mode over there to make jpegs out of all my NEF files or even
    > better, a command line tool to create jpegs out of a NEF, I would never
    > use the NEF+JPEG mode again...
    > Now I stil write NEF+JPEG to card because I want the JPEG to create
    > slideshows, to show to friends, or to put next the NEF files when I
    > archive them to CD or DVD, so I can see what's on it without having to
    > have support for NEF files on that PC...
    >
    > So if I can create the jpegs on my pc in about 2 seconds, the NEF+JPEG
    > feature is worthless to me ;-)
    >
    > Hmmm, must investigate this, when I get home...
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Yves


    dcraw is a free command line RAW converter, which I believe will handle
    D70 NEFs. It's the basis of most programs advertising RAW conversion,
    including AFAIK, Breezebrowser and Photoshop.

    Giles Morant
    Giles Morant, Apr 24, 2004
    #9

  10. >
    > dcraw is a free command line RAW converter, which I believe will handle
    > D70 NEFs. It's the basis of most programs advertising RAW conversion,
    > including AFAIK, Breezebrowser and Photoshop.
    >
    > Giles Morant


    Thanks Giles,

    Just what I needed :)

    Yves
    Yves Deweerdt, Apr 26, 2004
    #10
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. scada
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    447
    scada
    Jan 28, 2004
  2. Jonathan Ashton
    Replies:
    6
    Views:
    6,924
    Clark_Harris
    Feb 25, 2004
  3. Jamin

    Shutter cover problem Sony DSC P72 - fixable?

    Jamin, Jan 28, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    555
    Jamin
    Jan 28, 2004
  4. Mark Mestman

    Change D70's Firmware to D100 Firmware???

    Mark Mestman, Aug 15, 2004, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,211
    Tomas Daniska
    Aug 18, 2004
  5. Broken Camera - Does it look fixable?

    , Jan 6, 2006, in forum: Digital Photography
    Replies:
    18
    Views:
    427
    Jim Vatunz
    Jan 7, 2006
Loading...

Share This Page