Microsoft's Xmas Message......

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by steve, Dec 25, 2003.

  1. steve

    steve Guest

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisp...8&thesection=technology&thesubsection=general

    or

    http://tinyurl.com/2vhc2

    Extract (full):

    Microsoft's festive advice: Don't plug PCs into the web

    25.12.2003
    By CHARLES ARTHUR

    LONDON - Its slogan is "where do you want to go today?" But Microsoft asks
    that if you get a Windows computer for Christmas, don't take it to one
    particular place: the internet.

    At least, the company says, not until you've been to the shops again to
    buy extra software, and protected the system from the deluge of viruses
    and worms that target the flaws in Microsoft's software as soon as you
    take it online.

    The warning came as anti-virus companies said 2003 was the worst year ever
    for viruses attacking Windows, with two "global" outbreaks which were the
    biggest in the history of the internet.

    And now a new Windows virus, called Sober, is spreading fast in Germany
    and Europe. It turns personal computers into mass-mailing machines that
    can be used by spammers to send messages, and spreads the virus to anyone
    in the machine's address book.

    Microsoft's advice features in a new page on - inevitably - its website,
    entitled "Protect New PCs Before Connecting to the internet".

    Anyone who manages to go online to read it without being infected will
    find the company warning users to obtain anti-virus software, and a
    "firewall" (which new versions of Windows include, yet the company leaves
    turned off) before they venture online.

    But as Simon Moores, an internet consultant, pointed out yesterday, the
    software giant's admonitions "place the world in a catch-22: you can't be
    sure that it's safe to go online unless you connect to the internet and
    get a huge file of security updates from Microsoft, and new anti-virus
    files - which are also only available online".

    - INDEPENDENT
     
    steve, Dec 25, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. steve

    Warwick Guest

    On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:12:26 +1300, steve wrote:

    > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisp...8&thesection=technology&thesubsection=general
    >
    > or
    >
    > http://tinyurl.com/2vhc2
    >
    > Extract (full):
    >
    > Microsoft's festive advice: Don't plug PCs into the web
    >
    > 25.12.2003
    > By CHARLES ARTHUR
    >
    > LONDON - Its slogan is "where do you want to go today?" But Microsoft asks
    > that if you get a Windows computer for Christmas, don't take it to one
    > particular place: the internet.
    >
    > At least, the company says, not until you've been to the shops again to
    > buy extra software, and protected the system from the deluge of viruses
    > and worms that target the flaws in Microsoft's software as soon as you
    > take it online.
    >
    > The warning came as anti-virus companies said 2003 was the worst year ever
    > for viruses attacking Windows, with two "global" outbreaks which were the
    > biggest in the history of the internet.
    >
    > And now a new Windows virus, called Sober, is spreading fast in Germany
    > and Europe. It turns personal computers into mass-mailing machines that
    > can be used by spammers to send messages, and spreads the virus to anyone
    > in the machine's address book.
    >
    > Microsoft's advice features in a new page on - inevitably - its website,
    > entitled "Protect New PCs Before Connecting to the internet".
    >
    > Anyone who manages to go online to read it without being infected will
    > find the company warning users to obtain anti-virus software, and a
    > "firewall" (which new versions of Windows include, yet the company leaves
    > turned off) before they venture online.
    >
    > But as Simon Moores, an internet consultant, pointed out yesterday, the
    > software giant's admonitions "place the world in a catch-22: you can't be
    > sure that it's safe to go online unless you connect to the internet and
    > get a huge file of security updates from Microsoft, and new anti-virus
    > files - which are also only available online".
    >
    > - INDEPENDENT


    Not very satisfactory is it?

    One wonders why the onus of preparing the machine for 'net readiness' does
    not fall onto the vendor.


    They are preinstalling the software anyway, why cant they install the
    patches before sale?
     
    Warwick, Dec 26, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. steve

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:33:31 +1300, Warwick <> wrote:
    >
    >Not very satisfactory is it?
    >
    >One wonders why the onus of preparing the machine for 'net readiness' does
    >not fall onto the vendor.
    >

    Because it would be next to impossible to achieve. Firstly the lead
    time for a new machine from a major manufacturer is say 3 - 4 weeks.
    Then they sit in boxes in the shop for an unknown number of weeks.
    With reasonable turn-over maybe a week or two. Before the machine are
    shipped from the factory, it'll take maybe a week to build a btach and
    maybe another week sitting in the warehouse. They are built using
    disks that are manufactured with the OS pre-installed. So may be the
    disks are in stock for on average two weeks. The OS is installed on
    the master system (or however it is done) based on a image which is a
    standard image. I don't know how the standard image is updated - I
    suspect that they are not. However if they were there would be a lead
    time on how long that took. Say a month, for testing, updating, UAT,
    etc.

    So if a patch comes out NOW, the earliest it could possibly appear in
    machines in the retailers could be 13 -14 weeks. That is too out of
    date.
    >
    >They are preinstalling the software anyway, why cant they install the
    >patches before sale?
    >

    The boxes don't get opened after they leave the factory. The software
    does not get installed in the shop.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Christmas comes but once a year, thank the gods. I don't think
    that I could cope with twice.
     
    Enkidu, Dec 26, 2003
    #3
  4. steve

    Lennier Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:21:51 +1300, Enkidu wrote:

    > They are built using disks that are manufactured
    > with the OS pre-installed. So may be the disks are in stock for on average
    > two weeks. The OS is installed on the master system (or however it is
    > done) based on a image which is a standard image


    So why don't they update that standard image to include the patches
    released for that particular version of Windows that ARE ALREADY AVAILABLE?

    How difficult would that be?

    Even simpler, how difficult would it be to create a directory in that
    image into which they could throw every patch released by Micro$oft for
    that particular version of Windows, and for the software that has been
    preinstalled.

    Not difficult at all, IMHO.

    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Dec 26, 2003
    #4
  5. steve

    Lennier Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:21:51 +1300, Enkidu wrote:

    > So if a patch comes out NOW, the earliest it could possibly appear in
    > machines in the retailers could be 13 -14 weeks. That is too out of date.


    Solution, buy your computer in pieces and put it together yourself.

    Some cannot do that you say?? too bad! They shouldn't buy such microsoft
    software.

    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Dec 26, 2003
    #5
  6. steve

    Enkidu Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:58:37 +1300, Lennier
    <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:21:51 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >> They are built using disks that are manufactured
    >> with the OS pre-installed. So may be the disks are in stock for on average
    >> two weeks. The OS is installed on the master system (or however it is
    >> done) based on a image which is a standard image

    >
    >So why don't they update that standard image to include the patches
    >released for that particular version of Windows that ARE ALREADY AVAILABLE?
    >
    >How difficult would that be?
    >
    >Even simpler, how difficult would it be to create a directory in that
    >image into which they could throw every patch released by Micro$oft for
    >that particular version of Windows, and for the software that has been
    >preinstalled.
    >

    How?

    The hard disks are *created* with an image on them. The image does not
    get copied or ghosted to the disk.

    So far as I'm aware they don't test the system as a whole before it
    goes out. I've had systems arrive with cables not connected, and
    others with dead HDDs.
    >
    >Not difficult at all, IMHO.
    >

    <heh!>

    Probably a better idea would be a "patches" CD that would be required
    to run before the machine would start properly. But even that would be
    weeks old.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Christmas comes but once a year, thank the gods. I don't think
    that I could cope with twice.
     
    Enkidu, Dec 26, 2003
    #6
  7. steve

    Lennier Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:26:59 +1300, Enkidu wrote:

    > The hard disks are *created* with an image on them. The image does not get
    > copied or ghosted to the disk.


    Well then create them with an updated image!!!!!

    I mean, how many persons does it take, and over how many minutes does it
    take to create a drive image in the first place????

    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Dec 26, 2003
    #7
  8. steve

    jerm Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 02:36:05 +1300, Lennier <> said

    >On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:26:59 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >> The hard disks are *created* with an image on them. The image does not get
    >> copied or ghosted to the disk.

    >
    >Well then create them with an updated image!!!!!
    >
    >I mean, how many persons does it take, and over how many minutes does it
    >take to create a drive image in the first place????
    >

    About 2-3 weeks to create and distribute, world wide, all the patches to
    date. And in that 2-3 weeks, another umpteen viruses/flaws/holes are found,
    so the cycle is never ending. And because they make some nonsense claim to
    be "up-to-date" but never are, the customers can sue for damage, etc, etc.
     
    jerm, Dec 26, 2003
    #8
  9. steve

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 02:36:05 +1300, Lennier
    <> wrote:

    >On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 19:26:59 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >> The hard disks are *created* with an image on them. The image does not get
    >> copied or ghosted to the disk.

    >
    >Well then create them with an updated image!!!!!
    >
    >I mean, how many persons does it take, and over how many minutes does it
    >take to create a drive image in the first place????
    >

    Well first you have to download the fix, then you have to test it and
    then you have to QA it, I don't think that it's a simple thing to
    update a master image and you don't do it overnight. You don't want to
    send out machines that reboot all the time or fall over when you open
    Explorer or something like that.

    And you also snipped out the bit about how long it takes to get from a
    disk with the OS on to a computer on your desk.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Christmas comes but once a year, thank the gods. I don't think
    that I could cope with twice.
     
    Enkidu, Dec 26, 2003
    #9
  10. steve

    T.N.O. Guest

    Warwick wrote:
    > One wonders why the onus of preparing the machine for 'net readiness' does
    > not fall onto the vendor.
    > They are preinstalling the software anyway, why cant they install the
    > patches before sale?


    If the vendor is someone like Dell, then they do, to a point, update them.

    When I worked in a PC shop, we used to, it wasn't really a problem, do
    the latest SP, do the latest IE updates, and then run windowsupdate.com
    and see what was left. took about 10 mins from memory.
     
    T.N.O., Dec 26, 2003
    #10
  11. steve

    Lennier Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:17:42 +1300, jerm wrote:

    >>I mean, how many persons does it take, and over how many minutes does it
    >>take to create a drive image in the first place????
    >>

    > About 2-3 weeks to create and distribute, world wide, all the patches to
    > date.


    LOL - pushing it out to an FTP server and emailing people hardly takes 2-3
    weeks.

    I recently reformatted the C: drive of my Windows box and reinstalled
    everything again - something I've been in the habit of doing about every
    8-9 months so that everything keeps working as it should.

    This time I also installed the version of Drive Image which was bundled
    with the MOBO.

    A day to install everything and get it all set up back as I like it.

    Less than an hour to create and to verify a complete image of my C:
    partition in CD sized chunks.

    If I had broadband, it would likewise be quickly pushed out to the server.

    The reality is that they simply do not want to produce updated images.

    And if they were concerned about being sued for not having all updates,
    then all they have to do is to state "Updated with all patches
    released prior to DDMMMYYYY"

    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Dec 26, 2003
    #11
  12. steve

    steve Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 14:33:31 +1300, Warwick wrote:


    > Not very satisfactory is it?


    I agree.....

    > One wonders why the onus of preparing the machine for 'net readiness' does
    > not fall onto the vendor.


    If they don't want to accept responsibility....they simply disclaim it and
    becasue they have a monopoly, 90% of the sheeples act as though they have
    no choice.

    80% of that 90% don't know what they are being arned about....or how to
    address it.

    > They are preinstalling the software anyway, why cant they install the
    > patches before sale?


    Too expensive......the sheeples will buy it anyway. It's not as though
    most of them have any choice.
     
    steve, Dec 26, 2003
    #12
  13. steve

    steve Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:27:01 +1300, T.N.O. wrote:

    > Warwick wrote:
    >> One wonders why the onus of preparing the machine for 'net readiness' does
    >> not fall onto the vendor.
    >> They are preinstalling the software anyway, why cant they install the
    >> patches before sale?

    >
    > If the vendor is someone like Dell, then they do, to a point, update them.
    >
    > When I worked in a PC shop, we used to, it wasn't really a problem, do
    > the latest SP, do the latest IE updates, and then run windowsupdate.com
    > and see what was left. took about 10 mins from memory.


    IN NZ...maybe....but if shipping 1,000 (or 5,000) PC's / day....and more
    at peaks....it becomes a serious time and logistical issue.
     
    steve, Dec 26, 2003
    #13
  14. steve

    steve Guest

    On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:59:54 +1300, Lennier wrote:

    > On Fri, 26 Dec 2003 17:21:51 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >> So if a patch comes out NOW, the earliest it could possibly appear in
    >> machines in the retailers could be 13 -14 weeks. That is too out of date.

    >
    > Solution, buy your computer in pieces and put it together yourself.
    >
    > Some cannot do that you say?? too bad! They shouldn't buy such microsoft
    > software.


    You make a good point.

    My neighbour is firmly in that boat. He bought a PC with WinXP....has NO
    IDEA what the issues are - never mind how to fix them - and he's on a
    dial-up connection.

    To download all those patches would take many hours...on the household's
    one phone line.

    He refuses to do it.

    We've cleaned any number of viruses off his PC over the past few months.
     
    steve, Dec 26, 2003
    #14
  15. steve

    Lennier Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:23:09 +1300, Enkidu wrote:

    >>I mean, how many persons does it take, and over how many minutes does it
    >>take to create a drive image in the first place????
    >>

    > Well first you have to download the fix, then you have to test it and then
    > you have to QA it, I don't think that it's a simple thing to update a
    > master image and you don't do it overnight. You don't want to send out
    > machines that reboot all the time or fall over when you open Explorer or
    > something like that.


    Yes - but to take weeks???

    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Dec 26, 2003
    #15
  16. steve

    T.N.O. Guest

    Lennier wrote:
    >>So if a patch comes out NOW, the earliest it could possibly appear in
    >>machines in the retailers could be 13 -14 weeks. That is too out of date.


    > Solution, buy your computer in pieces and put it together yourself.
    > Some cannot do that you say?? too bad! They shouldn't buy such microsoft
    > software.


    Another solution is to enable the XP firewall when you first connect to
    the internet, if you use the wizard(like most n00bs do) then it will ask
    you, and if you aren't a n00b, you should know to enable it anyway.
     
    T.N.O., Dec 26, 2003
    #16
  17. steve

    Lennier Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:40:13 +1300, steve wrote:

    >> When I worked in a PC shop, we used to, it wasn't really a problem, do
    >> the latest SP, do the latest IE updates, and then run windowsupdate.com
    >> and see what was left. took about 10 mins from memory.

    >
    > IN NZ...maybe....but if shipping 1,000 (or 5,000) PC's / day....and more
    > at peaks....it becomes a serious time and logistical issue.


    If they're all identical, then simply create a new master image of the HDD
    and use that instead of the original master.

    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Dec 26, 2003
    #17
  18. steve

    Lennier Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:43:29 +1300, steve wrote:

    > You make a good point.
    >
    > My neighbour is firmly in that boat. He bought a PC with WinXP....has NO
    > IDEA what the issues are - never mind how to fix them - and he's on a
    > dial-up connection.
    >
    > To download all those patches would take many hours...on the household's
    > one phone line.
    >
    > He refuses to do it.
    >
    > We've cleaned any number of viruses off his PC over the past few months.


    Confiscate his modem!!!!!! ;o)

    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Dec 26, 2003
    #18
  19. steve

    Lennier Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:56:36 +1300, T.N.O. wrote:

    >> Solution, buy your computer in pieces and put it together yourself. Some
    >> cannot do that you say?? too bad! They shouldn't buy such microsoft
    >> software.

    >
    > Another solution is to enable the XP firewall when you first connect to
    > the internet, if you use the wizard(like most n00bs do) then it will ask
    > you, and if you aren't a n00b, you should know to enable it anyway.


    A third solution is to install a system (such as RedHat or Mandrake) which
    does not suffer from those out-of-the-box vulnerabilities.

    Here is a point in question. Why has not Micro$oft not produced an updated
    version of XP that sorts out those massive vulnerabilities which were
    revealed in the same week as when XP went on sale?

    Lennier
     
    Lennier, Dec 26, 2003
    #19
  20. steve

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:47:00 +1300, Lennier
    <> wrote:

    >On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 11:23:09 +1300, Enkidu wrote:
    >
    >>>I mean, how many persons does it take, and over how many minutes does it
    >>>take to create a drive image in the first place????
    >>>

    >> Well first you have to download the fix, then you have to test it and then
    >> you have to QA it, I don't think that it's a simple thing to update a
    >> master image and you don't do it overnight. You don't want to send out
    >> machines that reboot all the time or fall over when you open Explorer or
    >> something like that.

    >
    >Yes - but to take weeks???
    >

    Easily. Eg Compaq laptops out of Asia can take up to six weeks to be
    delivered. Most shipments are pre-sold. Add on to that the time a
    machine would take to build. Or rather a *batch* of machines.

    During the SARS scare it went out to eight weeks, minimum, because
    there were less planes, and hence less cargo space.

    Your custom-built Dell would take almost as long because its built in
    Thailand or somewhere.

    This is a manufacturing process and as a result the image *has* to be
    right, otherwise you are going to get lots of people returning dud
    machines. I'd say it would take a minimum of a few weeks to create and
    verify an image. Even then it might take more weeks to be fitted in
    the first machine.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Christmas comes but once a year, thank the gods. I don't think
    that I could cope with twice.
     
    Enkidu, Dec 26, 2003
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Nick
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    918
  2. sonic

    xmas party

    sonic, Dec 8, 2004, in forum: MCSE
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    488
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere
    Dec 13, 2004
  3. Consultant

    OT C's early xmas wish

    Consultant, Feb 3, 2006, in forum: MCSE
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    660
    TechGeekPro
    Feb 3, 2006
  4. joe

    Re: XMAS IS COMMING(HAVE A READ)

    joe, Oct 10, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    493
  5. joe

    Re: XMAS IS COMMING(HAVE A READ)

    joe, Oct 10, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    496
Loading...

Share This Page