Microsoft on Linux: Divide and Conquer

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Mickey Mouse, May 15, 2007.

  1. Mickey Mouse

    Mickey Mouse Guest

    What better way to destroy Linux?

    Buy a major distribution.
    Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    Initiate legal action against other distributions.
    Destroy competitors.
    Control and manipulate other distributions through restrictive licensing.
    Conquer the Linux market.

    Who owns Linux? Microsoft. Game Over!
     
    Mickey Mouse, May 15, 2007
    #1
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  2. Mickey Mouse

    Mickey Mouse Guest

    On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:06:16 +1200, Mickey Mouse wrote:

    > What better way to destroy Linux?
    >
    > Buy a major distribution.
    > Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    > Initiate legal action against other distributions.
    > Destroy competitors.
    > Control and manipulate other distributions through restrictive licensing.
    > Conquer the Linux market.
    >
    > Who owns Linux? Microsoft. Game Over!


    Oh. By the way.
    The URL....
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070515/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_open_source;_ylt=A0WTUdWDcElGYsUAbRsh2.cA
     
    Mickey Mouse, May 15, 2007
    #2
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  3. Mickey Mouse

    Gordon Guest

    On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:06:16 +1200, Mickey Mouse wrote:

    > What better way to destroy Linux?
    >
    > Buy a major distribution.
    > Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    > Initiate legal action against other distributions.
    > Destroy competitors.
    > Control and manipulate other distributions through restrictive licensing.
    > Conquer the Linux market.
    >
    > Who owns Linux? Microsoft. Game Over!


    Problem, a distribution is only a packaging. The code remains aloof.

    Seems to me someone is having problems in understanding OSS.
     
    Gordon, May 15, 2007
    #3
  4. Mickey Mouse

    Peter Guest

    Mickey Mouse wrote:
    > What better way to destroy Linux?
    > Buy a major distribution.
    > Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    > Initiate legal action against other distributions.
    > Destroy competitors.
    > Control and manipulate other distributions through restrictive licensing.
    > Conquer the Linux market.
    >
    > Who owns Linux? Microsoft. Game Over!


    MS knows that OSS is a major threat. OSS offers much a better value
    proposition, except where MS can exert their monopoly (such as through
    captive hardware vendors and application developers). More and more users
    are finding OSS is a viable alternative.
    To stop the leakage of captive customers, Microsoft seeks to scare them into
    submission. It used to be called FUD.

    A couple of years back, it was that SCO scam. SCO made extravagant claims
    about Linux having stolen their code, and initiated legal actions. Legal
    actions are expensive, but SCO had plenty of cash (reports were that
    millions were provided indirectly from Microsoft). This saga is still
    limping on, the most conspicuous aspect being the total failure of SCO to
    identify ANY example of stolen code.
    This is just another example of Microsoft trying to scare people into using
    their products.

    If Microsoft's products were so good, why would they have to do this?
    If someone actually has stolen some of their code, why doesn't Microsoft
    speak up, ask them to cease and desist. And if they don't, take legal
    action.


    Peter
     
    Peter, May 15, 2007
    #4
  5. Mickey Mouse

    Peter Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > If Microsoft's products were so good, why would they have to do this?
    > If someone actually has stolen some of their code, why doesn't Microsoft
    > speak up, ask them to cease and desist. And if they don't, take legal
    > action.


    As always, Groklaw has interesting comment and links.
    http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20070513234519615
    Paraphrasing the claim: "Our precious IP is worth beeelions, and you must
    honor our sacred intellectual property, which is behind this curtain. We
    can't exactly show you or identify it with specificity, but trust me, it's
    worth oodles and boodles, and you are violating it. We just can't show you
    precisely where and how. But we don't want to sue you, so we will let you
    use Linux anyway, if you just sign on the dotted line and pay us for code
    we didn't write but we'd like to tax because it's winning in the
    marketplace and we don't know how to make money fair and square against
    it."

    ----------------------------------------
     
    Peter, May 15, 2007
    #5
  6. Mickey Mouse

    Mickey Mouse Guest

    On 15 May 2007 09:22:25 GMT, Gordon wrote:

    > On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:06:16 +1200, Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >
    >> What better way to destroy Linux?
    >>
    >> Buy a major distribution.
    >> Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    >> Initiate legal action against other distributions.
    >> Destroy competitors.
    >> Control and manipulate other distributions through restrictive licensing.
    >> Conquer the Linux market.
    >>
    >> Who owns Linux? Microsoft. Game Over!

    >
    > Problem, a distribution is only a packaging. The code remains aloof.
    >
    > Seems to me someone is having problems in understanding OSS.


    The key here IS the distribution, particularly when offering support
    packages to corporates. Novell in bed with Microsoft (Suse), along with
    patent immunity. The OSS environment may be harder to crack, but the
    objective is the same.
     
    Mickey Mouse, May 15, 2007
    #6
  7. On Tue, 15 May 2007 09:22:25 +0000, Gordon wrote:

    > Seems to me someone is having problems in understanding OSS.


    Shhh. Don't say that too loudly. Balmer might throw another chair.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "You'll have to excuse me — I have a long
    bath and a short dress to get into."
     
    Jonathan Walker, May 15, 2007
    #7
  8. On Tue, 15 May 2007 22:24:29 +1200, Mickey Mouse wrote:

    > The key here IS the distribution, particularly when offering support
    > packages to corporates. Novell in bed with Microsoft (Suse), along with
    > patent immunity. The OSS environment may be harder to crack, but the
    > objective is the same.


    Linux is not developed by Novell. It is developed by the Linux Foundation.

    OpenOffice is not developed by Novell. It is developed by OpenOffice.org
    and mostly funded by Sun Microsystems.

    Samba is not developed by Novell. It is developed by the Samba team.

    Novell does contribute to the development of those projects, but they are
    not controlled by Novell, and neither are releases of those pieces of
    software controlled by Novell (other than custom releases as a part of the
    SuSE Linux distro.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "You'll have to excuse me — I have a long
    bath and a short dress to get into."
     
    Jonathan Walker, May 15, 2007
    #8
  9. In message <>, Mickey Mouse wrote:

    > What better way to destroy Linux?
    >
    > Buy a major distribution.
    > Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    > Initiate legal action against other distributions.


    Trouble is, there's a problem here. As a result of the deal with Novell,
    Microsoft is now a distributor of software covered by the GPL. But, the GPL
    <http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html> says (in section 7) that

    If a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the
    Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through
    you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would
    be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.

    In other words, if Microsoft tries to enforce its patents against
    distributors of Linux and other GPL'd software, then it loses the right to
    distribute such software itself.

    The only way around this is for Microsoft to sue end-users directly. Since a
    large proportion of those Linux users are also users of Microsoft products,
    such lawsuits are inevitably going to leave a bad taste in their
    mouths--put them right off buying Microsoft products. This will put a major
    dent in Microsoft's business. Which is the last thing Microsoft needs right
    now, with all its problems over Vista.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, May 15, 2007
    #9
  10. I see it as as huge compliment from Microsoft to open source software.

    After rubbishing the Linux desktop for ages, Microsoft now has to admit
    that Linux is making a dent in their profits. Hence the sable rattling.

    Not a clever move: any publicity is bad publicity here.
     
    bob the builder, May 16, 2007
    #10
  11. Mickey Mouse

    Shane Guest

    bob the builder wrote:

    > I see it as as huge compliment from Microsoft to open source software.
    >
    > After rubbishing the Linux desktop for ages, Microsoft now has to admit
    > that Linux is making a dent in their profits. Hence the sable rattling.
    >
    > Not a clever move: any publicity is bad publicity here.


    Microsoft has implemented FOSS in their products since its inception (BSD
    code).
    As far as I can tell Microsofts biggest issue with Linux is the use of the
    GPL. Because of that license Microsoft cannot simply 'buyout' Linux, as
    has been a strategy in the past, nor can they simply include the code into
    their products, as they would be required to release the source code of any
    of their 'embrace and extend' additions.

    The last comment I heard on the GPL issue from a Microsoft official,
    specifically it was on the Novell deal, was that Microsoft had 'gazumped'
    the GPL. Further that the GPL 'guys' were mad and thats why there was
    moves towards GPL3.

    IOW Microsoft has no issue with the products, just the license.

    If I might digress, there has been comment that, at this time, Microsoft,
    via the Novell deal, is the biggest Linux distributor on this planet ( I am
    not sure of its accuracy however).
    Further, there has been comment that Apples approach, use the Carnegie Melon
    University Mach 10 kernel, (FOSS), and some BSD applications, more FOSS,
    and then write its own GUI is a model for Microsofts future. TiVo has also
    taken this approach, with Linux, although the aim was a PVR, not a desktop
    OS.




    --
    Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].
     
    Shane, May 16, 2007
    #11
  12. Mickey Mouse

    BrianM Guest

    On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:06:16 +1200, Mickey Mouse wrote:

    > What better way to destroy Linux?
    >
    > Buy a major distribution.
    > Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    > Initiate legal action against other distributions.
    > Destroy competitors.
    > Control and manipulate other distributions through restrictive licensing.
    > Conquer the Linux market.
    >
    > Who owns Linux? Microsoft. Game Over!


    Let's see the alleged patents that are being infringed by OSS Microsoft.
    Put up or shut up.

    brianM
     
    BrianM, May 16, 2007
    #12
  13. Yes the FOSS is an entirely different game.
    No wonder Microsoft is worried.
     
    bob the builder, May 16, 2007
    #13
  14. Mickey Mouse

    roger Guest

    On Wed, 16 May 2007 01:20:23 +0000, BrianM wrote:

    > On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:06:16 +1200, Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >
    >> What better way to destroy Linux?
    >>
    >> Buy a major distribution.
    >> Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    >> Initiate legal action against other distributions.
    >> Destroy competitors.
    >> Control and manipulate other distributions through restrictive licensing.
    >> Conquer the Linux market.
    >>
    >> Who owns Linux? Microsoft. Game Over!

    >
    > Let's see the alleged patents that are being infringed by OSS Microsoft.
    > Put up or shut up.
    >
    > brianM


    What a great business model---Behind this curtain we have stacks
    of software patents---no, no; no peeking--- It looks as if you
    must owe us heaps and you'll pay up quick if you know what's good
    for you---. They must be desperate after the collapse of the SCO case.
    Who would want to do business with a bunch of gangsters running a
    protection racket?.
     
    roger, May 16, 2007
    #14
  15. Mickey Mouse

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Mickey Mouse wrote:
    > What better way to destroy Linux?


    What does this have to do with Linux?

    OSS != Linux

    MS are in effect pretty much taking on the entire non-MS software
    industry, (well, all that is left after dealing to almost every other
    vendor of non-specialised or enterprise commercial software over the years).

    42 patent infringements are alleged to relate to the Linux kernel, but
    everything else is not necessarily Linux specific.

    Open Office runs on many platforms including Windows. Window managers
    and GUIs existed well before Linux, (and Windows, for that matter). As
    did email.

    It is a waste of time speculating on this strategy until more specific
    details about the patents involved are released (and I don't think that
    is ever going to happen).

    MS should be concentrating a) on improving Vista and its next products
    and b) getting more of their business online; it is far too late to
    worry about OSes, they are already irrelevant. MS has seen this coming
    for years, and they still are powerless to change quickly enough.
     
    -=rjh=-, May 16, 2007
    #15
  16. Mickey Mouse

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Mickey Mouse wrote:
    > What better way to destroy Linux?


    <Re-Plonk>
    --
    Shaun.

    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
     
    ~misfit~, May 16, 2007
    #16
  17. Mickey Mouse

    BrianM Guest

    On Wed, 16 May 2007 17:57:21 +1200, roger wrote:

    > On Wed, 16 May 2007 01:20:23 +0000, BrianM wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 15 May 2007 21:06:16 +1200, Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >>
    >>> What better way to destroy Linux?
    >>>
    >>> Buy a major distribution.
    >>> Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    >>> Initiate legal action against other distributions.
    >>> Destroy competitors.
    >>> Control and manipulate other distributions through restrictive licensing.
    >>> Conquer the Linux market.
    >>>
    >>> Who owns Linux? Microsoft. Game Over!

    >>
    >> Let's see the alleged patents that are being infringed by OSS Microsoft.
    >> Put up or shut up.
    >>
    >> brianM

    >
    > What a great business model---Behind this curtain we have stacks
    > of software patents---no, no; no peeking--- It looks as if you
    > must owe us heaps and you'll pay up quick if you know what's good
    > for you---. They must be desperate after the collapse of the SCO case.
    > Who would want to do business with a bunch of gangsters running a
    > protection racket?.


    Just another business day for Ms. Goes to show how thick
    they really are by backing SCO. Novell is out of my computer - they
    really were scraping the bottom of the pond - hope they join the long
    list of other ex "partners" of Ms.

    brianM
     
    BrianM, May 16, 2007
    #17
  18. Mickey Mouse

    Peter Guest

    BrianM wrote:
    > Just another business day for Ms. Goes to show how thick
    > they really are by backing SCO. Novell is out of my computer - they
    > really were scraping the bottom of the pond - hope they join the long
    > list of other ex "partners" of Ms.



    A Microsoft partner is just a victim they haven't gotten round to yet.
     
    Peter, May 16, 2007
    #18
  19. Mickey Mouse

    Mutlley Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    >In message <>, Mickey Mouse wrote:
    >
    >> What better way to destroy Linux?
    >>
    >> Buy a major distribution.
    >> Offer patent immunity if you use this distribution.
    >> Initiate legal action against other distributions.

    >
    >Trouble is, there's a problem here. As a result of the deal with Novell,
    >Microsoft is now a distributor of software covered by the GPL. But, the GPL
    ><http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html> says (in section 7) that
    >
    > If a patent license would not permit royalty-free redistribution of the
    > Program by all those who receive copies directly or indirectly through
    > you, then the only way you could satisfy both it and this License would
    > be to refrain entirely from distribution of the Program.
    >
    >In other words, if Microsoft tries to enforce its patents against
    >distributors of Linux and other GPL'd software, then it loses the right to
    >distribute such software itself.
    >
    >The only way around this is for Microsoft to sue end-users directly. Since a
    >large proportion of those Linux users are also users of Microsoft products,
    >such lawsuits are inevitably going to leave a bad taste in their
    >mouths--put them right off buying Microsoft products. This will put a major
    >dent in Microsoft's business. Which is the last thing Microsoft needs right
    >now, with all its problems over Vista.



    "Linus Torvalds on Microsoft patent threat: It works both ways"
    http://tinyurl.com/2u7wab
     
    Mutlley, May 17, 2007
    #19
  20. Mickey Mouse

    El Chippy Guest

    On Thu, 17 May 2007 12:42:23 +1200, Mutlley wrote:


    > "Linus Torvalds on Microsoft patent threat: It works both ways"
    > http://tinyurl.com/2u7wab


    thanks Mutlley, I learnt a new word today from that link.

    "If Microsoft attempts to sue Linux users, developers, or distributors,
    the OIN would retaliate by suing Microsoft. The end result would be a
    veritable __lawyerclysm___ that would lead to the legal equivalent of
    mutually-assured destruction."

    Better a lawyerclysm than a lawyergasm i guess...
     
    El Chippy, May 17, 2007
    #20
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