Microsoft haunted by Windows 7 upgrade issues

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Rajesh Shenoy, Oct 30, 2009.

  1. I am referring to the big debate currently underway about clean installation
    using Windows 7 upgrade media (see here:
    http://www.crn.com/software/221300023).

    Just thinking out aloud here: Couldn't Microsoft have avoided all this very
    easily by:

    1. Disabling boot from upgrade media (i.e., you absolutely have to run the
    setup.exe from an existing qualifying OS).
    2. Disabling option to format the system partition using the upgrade media
    (inside the Custom install option).
    3. Advertising loud and clear (even on the packaging) that Upgrade media can
    only be run from within an activated qualifying OS (WinXP or Vista).

    Unless I've missed something obvious, this solves the issue for everyone
    involved. People who want a "clean install" using the Upgrade media can
    still do so by selecting Custom install. (This bundles the old windows
    folder as windows.old, and no applications are carried forward.) And people
    just cannot install on an empty hard disk, so the EULA is also not violated
    (either intentionally or un-intentionally).

    Any thoughts?

    Cheers!
    - Rajesh
     
    Rajesh Shenoy, Oct 30, 2009
    #1
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  2. Rajesh Shenoy

    Gary Mount Guest

    You can not run the 64 bit windows upgrade from a 32 bit windows, so you
    have to be able to boot from the DVD.

    "Rajesh Shenoy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am referring to the big debate currently underway about clean
    > installation using Windows 7 upgrade media (see here:
    > http://www.crn.com/software/221300023).
    >
    > Just thinking out aloud here: Couldn't Microsoft have avoided all this
    > very easily by:
    >
    > 1. Disabling boot from upgrade media (i.e., you absolutely have to run the
    > setup.exe from an existing qualifying OS).
    > 2. Disabling option to format the system partition using the upgrade media
    > (inside the Custom install option).
    > 3. Advertising loud and clear (even on the packaging) that Upgrade media
    > can only be run from within an activated qualifying OS (WinXP or Vista).
    >
    > Unless I've missed something obvious, this solves the issue for everyone
    > involved. People who want a "clean install" using the Upgrade media can
    > still do so by selecting Custom install. (This bundles the old windows
    > folder as windows.old, and no applications are carried forward.) And
    > people just cannot install on an empty hard disk, so the EULA is also not
    > violated (either intentionally or un-intentionally).
    >
    > Any thoughts?
    >
    > Cheers!
    > - Rajesh
     
    Gary Mount, Oct 30, 2009
    #2
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  3. Not completely sure here, but since the setup is "Image based", I guess a
    32-bit installer should also be able to do it? From what I've understood of
    Windows installation, the first step (before the first re-boot) is just a
    copy ("dump") of the entire OS image from the installation media to the hard
    disk. This can be done by a 32-bit installer also (even if the image is of a
    64-bit OS)?

    "Gary Mount" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > You can not run the 64 bit windows upgrade from a 32 bit windows, so you
    > have to be able to boot from the DVD.
    >
    > "Rajesh Shenoy" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> I am referring to the big debate currently underway about clean
    >> installation using Windows 7 upgrade media (see here:
    >> http://www.crn.com/software/221300023).
    >>
    >> Just thinking out aloud here: Couldn't Microsoft have avoided all this
    >> very easily by:
    >>
    >> 1. Disabling boot from upgrade media (i.e., you absolutely have to run
    >> the setup.exe from an existing qualifying OS).
    >> 2. Disabling option to format the system partition using the upgrade
    >> media (inside the Custom install option).
    >> 3. Advertising loud and clear (even on the packaging) that Upgrade media
    >> can only be run from within an activated qualifying OS (WinXP or Vista).
    >>
    >> Unless I've missed something obvious, this solves the issue for everyone
    >> involved. People who want a "clean install" using the Upgrade media can
    >> still do so by selecting Custom install. (This bundles the old windows
    >> folder as windows.old, and no applications are carried forward.) And
    >> people just cannot install on an empty hard disk, so the EULA is also not
    >> violated (either intentionally or un-intentionally).
    >>
    >> Any thoughts?
    >>
    >> Cheers!
    >> - Rajesh

    >
     
    Rajesh Shenoy, Oct 30, 2009
    #3
  4. If you started the installation in with a 32-bit installer on a CPU that
    is not 64-bit, like a netbook, and the first reboot crashed as a result,
    you would have a bunch of people wanting to know why.

    By requiring the system to boot into the 64-bit mode you ensure the CPU
    is 64-bit capable.


    Rajesh Shenoy wrote:
    > Not completely sure here, but since the setup is "Image based", I guess
    > a 32-bit installer should also be able to do it? From what I've
    > understood of Windows installation, the first step (before the first
    > re-boot) is just a copy ("dump") of the entire OS image from the
    > installation media to the hard disk. This can be done by a 32-bit
    > installer also (even if the image is of a 64-bit OS)?
    >
    > "Gary Mount" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> You can not run the 64 bit windows upgrade from a 32 bit windows, so
    >> you have to be able to boot from the DVD.
    >>
    >> "Rajesh Shenoy" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> I am referring to the big debate currently underway about clean
    >>> installation using Windows 7 upgrade media (see here:
    >>> http://www.crn.com/software/221300023).
    >>>
    >>> Just thinking out aloud here: Couldn't Microsoft have avoided all
    >>> this very easily by:
    >>>
    >>> 1. Disabling boot from upgrade media (i.e., you absolutely have to
    >>> run the setup.exe from an existing qualifying OS).
    >>> 2. Disabling option to format the system partition using the upgrade
    >>> media (inside the Custom install option).
    >>> 3. Advertising loud and clear (even on the packaging) that Upgrade
    >>> media can only be run from within an activated qualifying OS (WinXP
    >>> or Vista).
    >>>
    >>> Unless I've missed something obvious, this solves the issue for
    >>> everyone involved. People who want a "clean install" using the
    >>> Upgrade media can still do so by selecting Custom install. (This
    >>> bundles the old windows folder as windows.old, and no applications
    >>> are carried forward.) And people just cannot install on an empty hard
    >>> disk, so the EULA is also not violated (either intentionally or
    >>> un-intentionally).
    >>>
    >>> Any thoughts?
    >>>
    >>> Cheers!
    >>> - Rajesh

    >>
     
    Bobby Johnson, Oct 30, 2009
    #4
  5. Can't the installer check programmatically for correct bit-ness of the
    processor (and maybe other things in the platform) as a first step before
    proceeding? On second thoughts, don't the installers do this anyway?

    "Bobby Johnson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If you started the installation in with a 32-bit installer on a CPU that
    > is not 64-bit, like a netbook, and the first reboot crashed as a result,
    > you would have a bunch of people wanting to know why.
    >
    > By requiring the system to boot into the 64-bit mode you ensure the CPU is
    > 64-bit capable.
    >
    >
    > Rajesh Shenoy wrote:
    >> Not completely sure here, but since the setup is "Image based", I guess a
    >> 32-bit installer should also be able to do it? From what I've understood
    >> of Windows installation, the first step (before the first re-boot) is
    >> just a copy ("dump") of the entire OS image from the installation media
    >> to the hard disk. This can be done by a 32-bit installer also (even if
    >> the image is of a 64-bit OS)?
    >>
    >> "Gary Mount" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> You can not run the 64 bit windows upgrade from a 32 bit windows, so you
    >>> have to be able to boot from the DVD.
    >>>
    >>> "Rajesh Shenoy" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:...
    >>>> I am referring to the big debate currently underway about clean
    >>>> installation using Windows 7 upgrade media (see here:
    >>>> http://www.crn.com/software/221300023).
    >>>>
    >>>> Just thinking out aloud here: Couldn't Microsoft have avoided all this
    >>>> very easily by:
    >>>>
    >>>> 1. Disabling boot from upgrade media (i.e., you absolutely have to run
    >>>> the setup.exe from an existing qualifying OS).
    >>>> 2. Disabling option to format the system partition using the upgrade
    >>>> media (inside the Custom install option).
    >>>> 3. Advertising loud and clear (even on the packaging) that Upgrade
    >>>> media can only be run from within an activated qualifying OS (WinXP or
    >>>> Vista).
    >>>>
    >>>> Unless I've missed something obvious, this solves the issue for
    >>>> everyone involved. People who want a "clean install" using the Upgrade
    >>>> media can still do so by selecting Custom install. (This bundles the
    >>>> old windows folder as windows.old, and no applications are carried
    >>>> forward.) And people just cannot install on an empty hard disk, so the
    >>>> EULA is also not violated (either intentionally or un-intentionally).
    >>>>
    >>>> Any thoughts?
    >>>>
    >>>> Cheers!
    >>>> - Rajesh
    >>>
     
    Rajesh Shenoy, Nov 1, 2009
    #5
  6. Rajesh Shenoy

    Frank Guest

    On Oct 30, 2:36 am, "Rajesh Shenoy" <> wrote:
    > I am referring to the big debate currently underway about clean installation
    > using Windows 7 upgrade media (see here:http://www.crn.com/software/221300023).
    >
    > Just thinking out aloud here: Couldn't Microsoft have avoided all this very
    > easily by:
    >
    > 1. Disabling boot from upgrade media (i.e., you absolutely have to run the
    > setup.exe from an existing qualifying OS).
    > 2. Disabling option to format the system partition using the upgrade media
    > (inside the Custom install option).
    > 3. Advertising loud and clear (even on the packaging) that Upgrade media can
    > only be run from within an activated qualifying OS (WinXP or Vista).
    >
    > Unless I've missed something obvious, this solves the issue for everyone
    > involved. People who want a "clean install" using the Upgrade media can
    > still do so by selecting Custom install. (This bundles the old windows
    > folder as windows.old, and no applications are carried forward.) And people
    > just cannot install on an empty hard disk, so the EULA is also not violated
    > (either intentionally or un-intentionally).
    >
    > Any thoughts?
    >
    > Cheers!
    > - Rajesh


    Can you run 16-bit programs on Windows 7 Home 32? If you have Home
    64 - can you run it in 32-bit mode to support 16-bit.
     
    Frank, Nov 2, 2009
    #6
  7. Frank wrote:

    Can you run 16-bit programs on Windows 7 Home 32?
    No.

    If you have Home 64 - can you run it in 32-bit mode to support 16-bit.
    No.
     
    Bobby Johnson, Nov 2, 2009
    #7
  8. I made a mistake and realized it after I clicked on Send.

    You can run 16-bit programs in any edition of Win 7 32-bit. Okay?

    However, you cannot run 16-bit programs on any edition of Win 7 64-bit
    without some sort of VM software or an emulator like DosBox. Okay?


    Zootal wrote:
    > "Bobby Johnson" <> wrote in message
    > news:OVZOxl%...
    >>
    >> Frank wrote:
    >>
    >> Can you run 16-bit programs on Windows 7 Home 32?
    >> No.
    >>
    >> If you have Home 64 - can you run it in 32-bit mode to support 16-bit.
    >> No.

    >
    > Any reason why you couldn't 1) run DosBox or the equivalent 2) Run a 32 bit
    > OS in a virtual machine that supports 16 bit apps?
    >
    >
     
    Bobby Johnson, Nov 2, 2009
    #8
  9. Rajesh Shenoy

    Frank Guest

    On Nov 2, 5:41 pm, Bobby Johnson <>
    wrote:
    > I made a mistake and realized it after I clicked on Send.
    >
    > You can run16-bitprograms in any edition of Win732-bit.  Okay?
    >
    > However, you cannot run16-bitprograms on any edition of Win764-bit
    > without some sort of VM software or an emulator like DosBox.  Okay?
    >
    >
    >
    > Zootal wrote:
    > > "Bobby Johnson" <> wrote in message
    > >news:OVZOxl%...

    >
    > >> Frank wrote:

    >
    > >> Can you run16-bitprograms onWindows7Home 32?
    > >> No.

    >
    > >> If you have Home 64 - can you run it in 32-bit mode to support16-bit.
    > >> No.

    >
    > > Any reason why you couldn't 1) run DosBox or the equivalent 2) Run a 32 bit
    > > OS in a virtual machine that supports16 bitapps?- Hide quoted text -

    >
    > - Show quoted text -


    The 16-bit apps are for Windows. I do not think DOS Box will help. I
    was thinking of a LINUX Wine wrapper or something. I cannot believe 3
    out of 4 versions of Window 7 support 16-bit and they left support out
    of one version. However it is the largest seller to consumers.
    I guess no way to get Home 64-bit to boot in 32 bit.
     
    Frank, Nov 8, 2009
    #9
  10. Rajesh Shenoy

    Rob Moir Guest

    "Rajesh Shenoy" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > Can't the installer check programmatically for correct bit-ness of the
    > processor (and maybe other things in the platform) as a first step before
    > proceeding? On second thoughts, don't the installers do this anyway?


    You know what a *really* good check would be? Making people run 64 bit code
    in order to install 64 bit windows. Like the current installer does.
     
    Rob Moir, Nov 8, 2009
    #10
  11. Rajesh Shenoy

    Rob Moir Guest

    "Frank" <> wrote in message news:7d5ff3a5-12ea-4e13-

    > The 16-bit apps are for Windows. I do not think DOS Box will help. I
    > was thinking of a LINUX Wine wrapper or something.


    Well that may work of course. I think they talked about a WINE layer that
    ran under windows at one stage, not sure what happened to that.

    > I cannot believe 3
    > out of 4 versions of Window 7 support 16-bit and they left support out
    > of one version. However it is the largest seller to consumers.
    > I guess no way to get Home 64-bit to boot in 32 bit.


    No. You're either 64 bit or you're not in the Windows world. It's probably
    time to let the 16-bit apps go... I suspect that Windows 7 is the last
    version of Windows to run in 32 bit mode (the server version of Windows 7,
    Windows 2008r2, is 64-bit only) and so you'll either be sticking with 32-bit
    windows 7 forever or letting the 16 bit stuff go at some point.
     
    Rob Moir, Nov 8, 2009
    #11
  12. I'm a little befuddled by you statements.

    All 32-bit versions of Windows 7 support 16-bit apps, not just 3.

    Which one is the Best Seller? And where? Home Premium is the most
    popular in the U.S. Home Basic is intended for emerging markets and
    Microsoft doesn't feel a 64-bit version would that much in demand there.

    Vista Home Basic may have been the most installed on OEM equipment, but
    with Windows 7 it is Home Premium.



    Frank wrote:
    >
    > The 16-bit apps are for Windows. I do not think DOS Box will help. I
    > was thinking of a LINUX Wine wrapper or something. I cannot believe 3
    > out of 4 versions of Window 7 support 16-bit and they left support out
    > of one version. However it is the largest seller to consumers.
    > I guess no way to get Home 64-bit to boot in 32 bit.
     
    Bobby Johnson, Nov 8, 2009
    #12
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