Microsoft admits Vista failure

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Mutlley, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Mutlley

    Mutlley Guest

    Mutlley, Jul 26, 2007
    #1
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  2. Mutlley

    BrianM Guest

    On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:13:26 +1200, Mutlley wrote:

    > FYI,
    >
    > http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087



    Interesting observation but a bit premature I think. Loved a couple
    of the animal witicisms though, eg
    "but for the walking sheep class, well, you take what you are shovelled"
    ''This was a sacred cow, and it is now hamburger backed up against the
    wall"

    cheers
    brianM
    BrianM, Jul 26, 2007
    #2
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  3. Mutlley

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Mutlley wrote:
    > FYI,
    >
    > http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087


    Good to see that Dell has finally seen the light.

    A friend in NYC bought a reasonably fast PC from Dell just after Vista came
    out (upgraded from a PIII/98SE machine, although he'd used XP often enough).
    He disliked it so much after a couple of weeks that he paid a $200
    "re-stocking" fee, then posed as a business and paid $300 (all in US$) extra
    just to get basically the same machine only with XP. (He tried talking to
    them for weeks first, to get XP instead of Vista, no dice then).

    I guess he'll feel vindicated now, although still owing an extra $500 (as
    he's a student he had to borrow the money from his parents).
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Jul 27, 2007
    #3
  4. Mutlley

    Peter Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:
    > Mutlley wrote:
    >> http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087

    >
    > Good to see that Dell has finally seen the light.


    Also this article in today's NZ Herald ...
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10454189

    "Dell will soon offer more personal computers that use the Linux operating
    system instead of Microsoft's Windows, said the founder of a company that
    offers Linux support services. ... Dell, the world's second-largest PC
    maker after Hewlett-Packard Co, now offers three consumer PCs that run
    Ubuntu Linux. ... Dell was pleased with customer response to its Linux
    PCs."
    Peter, Jul 27, 2007
    #4
  5. Mutlley

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Peter wrote:
    > ~misfit~ wrote:
    > > Mutlley wrote:
    > > > http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087

    > >
    > > Good to see that Dell has finally seen the light.

    >
    > Also this article in today's NZ Herald ...
    > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10454189
    >
    > "Dell will soon offer more personal computers that use the Linux
    > operating system instead of Microsoft's Windows, said the founder of
    > a company that offers Linux support services. ... Dell, the world's
    > second-largest PC maker after Hewlett-Packard Co, now offers three
    > consumer PCs that run Ubuntu Linux. ... Dell was pleased with
    > customer response to its Linux PCs."


    Excellent news. About time that there was real choice.
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Jul 27, 2007
    #5
  6. Mutlley

    impossible Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Mutlley wrote:
    >> FYI,
    >>
    >> http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087

    >
    > Good to see that Dell has finally seen the light.
    >
    > A friend in NYC bought a reasonably fast PC from Dell just after Vista
    > came out (upgraded from a PIII/98SE machine, although he'd used XP often
    > enough). He disliked it so much after a couple of weeks that he paid a
    > $200 "re-stocking" fee, then posed as a business and paid $300 (all in
    > US$) extra just to get basically the same machine only with XP. (He tried
    > talking to them for weeks first, to get XP instead of Vista, no dice
    > then).
    >
    > I guess he'll feel vindicated now, although still owing an extra $500 (as
    > he's a student he had to borrow the money from his parents).
    > --


    Doesn't add up. Your friend could have bought a full retail version of XP
    Home (US$189) or XP Professional (US$299) in NYC for so much less. Why would
    he go through all that bother just to hand more cash to Dell?
    impossible, Jul 27, 2007
    #6
  7. Mutlley

    peterwn Guest

    impossible wrote:

    >
    > Doesn't add up. Your friend could have bought a full retail version of XP
    > Home (US$189) or XP Professional (US$299) in NYC for so much less. Why would
    > he go through all that bother just to hand more cash to Dell?
    >
    >


    Because he did not know the 'system'.

    Being the conspiracy theorist that I am, Dell obviously had an incentive
    from somewhere (guess whom) to ram an unwanted product (to wit Vista)
    down customers' throats. Why else would they 'block' the offering of XP
    computers to the consumer but not the business market. Moreover XP
    shrinkwrap version would have disappeared from shop shelves when Vista
    was launched and customers could be forgiven for assuming that it was no
    longer available.

    As far as I can see, Dell would dearly love to sever its 'dependency' on
    Microsoft and treat Microsoft as just another supplier of 'product' that
    can be installed on Dell computers in accordance with customers' wishes.
    Dell is at present between a rock and a hard place at present and is
    having to strategically plan for a life without Microsoft when in due
    course Microsoft is reduced to just another company (as IBM was years
    ago). Dell cannot quite give Bill and Steve the finger at the moment,
    but Dell is steadily paving the way towards this. As a first step, the
    time has probably almost come where Microsoft would need to supply a
    minimal Vista system and a trial Office 2007 at little or no cost to
    Dell, or even pay Dell for the privilege of loading this stuff on Dell
    machines

    Coming to think of it, how do you have such detailed knowledge of this
    sort of thing at your fingertips? Knowledge which the hapless OP's
    friend did not have.
    peterwn, Jul 27, 2007
    #7
  8. Mutlley

    impossible Guest

    "peterwn" <> wrote in message
    news:46aa63ec$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Doesn't add up. Your friend could have bought a full retail version of XP
    >> Home (US$189) or XP Professional (US$299) in NYC for so much less. Why
    >> would he go through all that bother just to hand more cash to Dell?

    >
    > Because he did not know the 'system'.
    >
    > Being the conspiracy theorist that I am...


    <SNIP conspiracy theory>

    > Coming to think of it, how do you have such detailed knowledge of this
    > sort of thing at your fingertips? Knowledge which the hapless OP's friend
    > did not have.
    >


    Just Google, and you too can substitute fact for fantasy.
    impossible, Jul 28, 2007
    #8
  9. Mutlley

    ~misfit~ Guest

    impossible wrote:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Mutlley wrote:
    > > > FYI,
    > > >
    > > > http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087

    > >
    > > Good to see that Dell has finally seen the light.
    > >
    > > A friend in NYC bought a reasonably fast PC from Dell just after
    > > Vista came out (upgraded from a PIII/98SE machine, although he'd
    > > used XP often enough). He disliked it so much after a couple of
    > > weeks that he paid a $200 "re-stocking" fee, then posed as a
    > > business and paid $300 (all in US$) extra just to get basically the
    > > same machine only with XP. (He tried talking to them for weeks
    > > first, to get XP instead of Vista, no dice then).
    > >
    > > I guess he'll feel vindicated now, although still owing an extra
    > > $500 (as he's a student he had to borrow the money from his
    > > parents). --

    >
    > Doesn't add up. Your friend could have bought a full retail version
    > of XP Home (US$189) or XP Professional (US$299) in NYC for so much
    > less. Why would he go through all that bother just to hand more cash
    > to Dell?


    Because he's basically computer-illiterate. He browses, emails, reads
    newsgroups and plays mp3s. That's it. While he installs software he's
    certainly not confident enough to install an OS from scratch, then hunt for
    drivers (if it worked well enough to get online without them in the first
    place). Also, he wanted a /warranted/ PC in case of problems. To him a PC is
    a consumer item like a TV.
    Sometimes we forget that not everyone in the world has a similar skill-set
    to our own. He is an excellent forensic psychologist, currently doing
    post-grad work and preparing for his masters but when it comes to PCs he
    prefers to buy them as a unit.

    His knowledge of PCs is such that the machine specs listed a dual-layer,
    multi-format DVD-RW but didn't mention it's CD writing capabilities,
    something that most of us take for granted. He didn't know, and wanted CD
    writing capabilities, so added a CD writer to the package.

    Add up now?
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Jul 28, 2007
    #9
  10. Mutlley

    Greg House Guest

    On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:19:49 +1200, Peter <> wrote:

    >~misfit~ wrote:
    >> Mutlley wrote:
    >>> http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087

    >>
    >> Good to see that Dell has finally seen the light.

    >
    >Also this article in today's NZ Herald ...
    >http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10454189
    >
    >"Dell will soon offer more personal computers that use the Linux operating
    >system instead of Microsoft's Windows, said the founder of a company that
    >offers Linux support services. ... Dell, the world's second-largest PC
    >maker after Hewlett-Packard Co, now offers three consumer PCs that run
    >Ubuntu Linux. ... Dell was pleased with customer response to its Linux
    >PCs."
    >
    >
    >




    Get out of here this is Not a Lunix News Group..

    Go set up your own new group and leave the decent people here alone...
    Greg House, Jul 28, 2007
    #10
  11. Mutlley

    impossible Guest

    "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    news:46aa9d14$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > Mutlley wrote:
    >> > > FYI,
    >> > >
    >> > > http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087
    >> >
    >> > Good to see that Dell has finally seen the light.
    >> >
    >> > A friend in NYC bought a reasonably fast PC from Dell just after
    >> > Vista came out (upgraded from a PIII/98SE machine, although he'd
    >> > used XP often enough). He disliked it so much after a couple of
    >> > weeks that he paid a $200 "re-stocking" fee, then posed as a
    >> > business and paid $300 (all in US$) extra just to get basically the
    >> > same machine only with XP. (He tried talking to them for weeks
    >> > first, to get XP instead of Vista, no dice then).
    >> >
    >> > I guess he'll feel vindicated now, although still owing an extra
    >> > $500 (as he's a student he had to borrow the money from his
    >> > parents). --

    >>
    >> Doesn't add up. Your friend could have bought a full retail version
    >> of XP Home (US$189) or XP Professional (US$299) in NYC for so much
    >> less. Why would he go through all that bother just to hand more cash
    >> to Dell?

    >
    > Because he's basically computer-illiterate. He browses, emails, reads
    > newsgroups and plays mp3s. That's it. While he installs software he's
    > certainly not confident enough to install an OS from scratch, then hunt
    > for drivers (if it worked well enough to get online without them in the
    > first place). Also, he wanted a /warranted/ PC in case of problems. To him
    > a PC is a consumer item like a TV.
    > Sometimes we forget that not everyone in the world has a similar skill-set
    > to our own. He is an excellent forensic psychologist, currently doing
    > post-grad work and preparing for his masters but when it comes to PCs he
    > prefers to buy them as a unit.
    >
    > His knowledge of PCs is such that the machine specs listed a dual-layer,
    > multi-format DVD-RW but didn't mention it's CD writing capabilities,
    > something that most of us take for granted. He didn't know, and wanted CD
    > writing capabilities, so added a CD writer to the package.
    >
    > Add up now?
    > --


    Maybe, if you're now saying that he returned his machine to Dell in the
    first place because it didn't have the CD-writing capability he thouight it
    would, and that this is what accounts for most of his extra costs. But
    that's not the story you originally told here. Thing is, most "computer
    illiterates" I know have little or no opinion of operating systems -- it
    takes a "friend" to spin their inarticulate frustration with something into
    a cause of some sort -- so the none-too-subtle tip-ff was when you said
    your friend felt "vindicated" by Dell's change of policy. Yeah, right.
    impossible, Jul 28, 2007
    #11
  12. Mutlley

    ~misfit~ Guest

    impossible wrote:
    > "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    > news:46aa9d14$...
    > > impossible wrote:
    > > > "~misfit~" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > Mutlley wrote:
    > > > > > FYI,
    > > > > >
    > > > > > http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=39087
    > > > >
    > > > > Good to see that Dell has finally seen the light.
    > > > >
    > > > > A friend in NYC bought a reasonably fast PC from Dell just after
    > > > > Vista came out (upgraded from a PIII/98SE machine, although he'd
    > > > > used XP often enough). He disliked it so much after a couple of
    > > > > weeks that he paid a $200 "re-stocking" fee, then posed as a
    > > > > business and paid $300 (all in US$) extra just to get basically
    > > > > the same machine only with XP. (He tried talking to them for
    > > > > weeks first, to get XP instead of Vista, no dice then).
    > > > >
    > > > > I guess he'll feel vindicated now, although still owing an extra
    > > > > $500 (as he's a student he had to borrow the money from his
    > > > > parents). --
    > > >
    > > > Doesn't add up. Your friend could have bought a full retail
    > > > version of XP Home (US$189) or XP Professional (US$299) in NYC
    > > > for so much less. Why would he go through all that bother just to
    > > > hand more cash to Dell?

    > >
    > > Because he's basically computer-illiterate. He browses, emails,
    > > reads newsgroups and plays mp3s. That's it. While he installs
    > > software he's certainly not confident enough to install an OS from
    > > scratch, then hunt for drivers (if it worked well enough to get
    > > online without them in the first place). Also, he wanted a
    > > /warranted/ PC in case of problems. To him a PC is a consumer item
    > > like a TV. Sometimes we forget that not everyone in the world has a
    > > similar
    > > skill-set to our own. He is an excellent forensic psychologist,
    > > currently doing post-grad work and preparing for his masters but
    > > when it comes to PCs he prefers to buy them as a unit.
    > >
    > > His knowledge of PCs is such that the machine specs listed a
    > > dual-layer, multi-format DVD-RW but didn't mention it's CD writing
    > > capabilities, something that most of us take for granted. He didn't
    > > know, and wanted CD writing capabilities, so added a CD writer to
    > > the package. Add up now?
    > > --

    >
    > Maybe, if you're now saying that he returned his machine to Dell in
    > the first place because it didn't have the CD-writing capability he
    > thouight it would, and that this is what accounts for most of his
    > extra costs. But that's not the story you originally told here. Thing
    > is, most "computer illiterates" I know have little or no opinion of
    > operating systems -- it takes a "friend" to spin their inarticulate
    > frustration with something into a cause of some sort -- so the
    > none-too-subtle tip-ff was when you said your friend felt
    > "vindicated" by Dell's change of policy. Yeah, right.


    Seriously? You trying to get a bit of me over this?

    It's really simple. He had a PIII running 98SE that his brother gave to the
    family when he shipped to Iraq. It's HDD got full and he decided that the
    family needed a new machine. He bought a Dell and asked for XP on it as he
    had previously used XP and Vista was only released that month. He couldn't
    get XP so he took a machine with Vista (and an added CR-RW). After using the
    machine for a couple of weeks he hated it. He told me it was slower than the
    old hand-me-down PIII, kept asking if he really wanted to do what he'd just
    tried to do and the clincher; His old parents wouldn't use it at all after a
    couple attempts as they thought they were breaking things when the machine
    kept asking for confirmation. (They'd previously used a 98SE machine for
    years with no problems).

    They live in a little flat in Brooklyn and there wasn't room to have both
    machines set up and he needed a user-friendly machine, for him *and* his
    parents. Hence it went back, he posed as a small business and bought a
    machine (for a premium as business machines are dearer) with XP installed
    (and a CD-RW installed as he still didn't realise DVD-RWs would write to
    CDs. It doesn't even say in Dell's set-up and manual, they just assume that
    you know. He didn't).

    All up loss to him; Around $500US. I've never spoken to his parents so
    didn't "spin" anything to stop them from using it. They were just
    intimidated and frustrated by the constant confirmation requests from the
    OS.

    He emailed me the other day and told me that he's pissed that Dell now offer
    XP on home machines as he's out of pocket $500 because they wouldn't supply
    him such a machine before.

    Follow that?
    --
    Shaun.
    ~misfit~, Jul 30, 2007
    #12
  13. Mutlley

    Jennings Guest

    On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 01:26:30 +1200, ~misfit~ wrote:

    > Dell, the world's
    >> second-largest PC maker after Hewlett-Packard Co, now offers three
    >> consumer PCs that run Ubuntu Linux. ... Dell was pleased with customer
    >> response to its Linux PCs."

    >
    > Excellent news. About time that there was real choice.



    If it was such a great fecking choice why havent you switched ..


    Oh yeah lol


    Biggles ...
    Jennings, Aug 3, 2007
    #13
  14. A strategist at Dell reckons the stars may be aligning for desktop Linux
    <http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2168426,00.asp>, what with the
    problems with Vista, developers deserting Windows, and name-brand vendors
    starting to offer Linx preinstalled. Love this quote:

    "To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows
    box, you just have to work on it."
    -- Scott Granneman
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 10, 2007
    #14
  15. Interesting item <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Berlind/?p=733> about how Vista can
    force your machine to reboot under certain circumstances, and there's
    nothing you can do about it.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Aug 17, 2007
    #15
  16. On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 13:06:28 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > Interesting item <http://blogs.zdnet.com/Berlind/?p=733> about how Vista can
    > force your machine to reboot under certain circumstances, and there's
    > nothing you can do about it.


    that's so Micro$oft can remotely install any old piece of spyware onto your
    PC and then reboot it to finish the M$ installation process.


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "The IT industry landscape is littered with the dead
    dreams of people who once trusted Microsoft."
    Jonathan Walker, Aug 17, 2007
    #16
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