Metering problem

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by PaddleHard, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems
    everytime I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very
    least) to get a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the
    exposure would be overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's
    way overexposed. I've run through all the camera settings--ISO set to
    400, no bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make
    sure I didn't set some strange exposure compensation.

    Thanks for your thoughts,
    Chris
     
    PaddleHard, Sep 30, 2009
    #1
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  2. PaddleHard

    Nicko Guest

    On Sep 29, 6:39 pm, PaddleHard <> wrote:
    > I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    > while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems
    > everytime I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very
    > least) to get a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the
    > exposure would be overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's
    > way overexposed. I've run through all the camera settings--ISO set to
    > 400, no bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make
    > sure I didn't set some strange exposure compensation.
    >
    > Thanks for your thoughts,
    > Chris


    How do you overexpose by -2 stops?
     
    Nicko, Sep 30, 2009
    #2
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  3. PaddleHard

    ray Guest

    On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:39:01 -0700, PaddleHard wrote:

    > I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    > while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems everytime
    > I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very least) to get
    > a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the exposure would be
    > overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's way overexposed. I've
    > run through all the camera settings--ISO set to 400, no
    > bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make sure I
    > didn't set some strange exposure compensation.
    >
    > Thanks for your thoughts,
    > Chris


    Time to get a new camera?
     
    ray, Sep 30, 2009
    #3
  4. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    On Sep 29, 8:44 pm, Nicko <> wrote:
    > On Sep 29, 6:39 pm, PaddleHard <> wrote:
    >
    > > I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    > > while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems
    > > everytime I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very
    > > least) to get a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the
    > > exposure would be overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's
    > > way overexposed. I've run through all the camera settings--ISO set to
    > > 400, no bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make
    > > sure I didn't set some strange exposure compensation.

    >
    > > Thanks for your thoughts,
    > > Chris

    >
    > How do you overexpose by -2 stops?


    Err....uh...

    Let me try this again....The meter reads that I 'underexposed' an
    image by 2 stops. I press the shutter button. Whamo! The image is
    overexposed. Make sense?
     
    PaddleHard, Sep 30, 2009
    #4
  5. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    On Sep 29, 8:47 pm, ray <> wrote:
    > On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 16:39:01 -0700, PaddleHard wrote:
    > > I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    > > while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems everytime
    > > I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very least) to get
    > > a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the exposure would be
    > > overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's way overexposed. I've
    > > run through all the camera settings--ISO set to 400, no
    > > bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make sure I
    > > didn't set some strange exposure compensation.

    >
    > > Thanks for your thoughts,
    > > Chris

    >
    > Time to get a new camera?


    Well, that would be nice!
     
    PaddleHard, Sep 30, 2009
    #5
  6. PaddleHard

    Ray Fischer Guest

    Mike Russell <> wrote:
    > PaddleHard wrote:
    >
    >> I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    >> while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems
    >> everytime I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very
    >> least) to get a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the
    >> exposure would be overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's
    >> way overexposed. I've run through all the camera settings--ISO set to
    >> 400, no bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make
    >> sure I didn't set some strange exposure compensation.
    >>
    >> Thanks for your thoughts,
    >> Chris

    >
    >Could be a sticky diaphragm. Does this happen with more than one lens?


    Or a shutter that's getting slow.

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Sep 30, 2009
    #6
  7. PaddleHard

    Ofnuts Guest

    Mike Russell wrote:

    > As Ray said, a slow shutter is another possibility. It does seem to me
    > that a slow shutter is less likely than a sticky diaphragm, but it could
    > indeed account for *all* exposures being wrong.


    Actually, that would be less visible at slow speeds?

    --
    Bertrand
     
    Ofnuts, Sep 30, 2009
    #7
  8. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    On Sep 30, 4:18 am, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
    > Ofnuts <> wrote:
    > >Mike Russell wrote:

    >
    > >> As Ray said, a slow shutter is another possibility.  It does seem to me
    > >> that a slow shutter is less likely than a sticky diaphragm, but it could
    > >> indeed account for *all* exposures being wrong.

    >
    > >Actually, that would be less visible at slow speeds?

    >
    > Depends.  If the shutter itself is the problem, probably
    > true.  But if the control mechanism (software or
    > hardware) is the problem, it might be just as visible.
    >
    > --
    > Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
    > Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              


    Interesting discussion. I will get more 'data' later in the day. I
    will say that this has happened with more than one lense.
     
    PaddleHard, Sep 30, 2009
    #8
  9. PaddleHard <> wrote:

    > Let me try this again....The meter reads that I 'underexposed' an
    > image by 2 stops. I press the shutter button. Whamo! The image is
    > overexposed. Make sense?


    Spot (or center) metering?

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Sep 30, 2009
    #9
  10. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    On Sep 30, 9:05 am, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    wrote:
    > PaddleHard <> wrote:
    > > Let me try this again....The meter reads that I 'underexposed' an
    > > image by 2 stops. I press the shutter button. Whamo! The image is
    > > overexposed. Make sense?

    >
    > Spot (or center) metering?
    >
    > -Wolfgang


    Spot.
     
    PaddleHard, Sep 30, 2009
    #10
  11. PaddleHard

    Nicko Guest

    On Sep 29, 6:39 pm, PaddleHard <> wrote:
    > I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    > while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems
    > everytime I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very
    > least) to get a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the
    > exposure would be overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's
    > way overexposed. I've run through all the camera settings--ISO set to
    > 400, no bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make
    > sure I didn't set some strange exposure compensation.



    Does it overexpose in priority or program exposures?

    --
    YOP...
     
    Nicko, Sep 30, 2009
    #11
  12. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    On Sep 30, 4:16 am, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
    > Mike Russell <> wrote:
    > >On Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:31:29 -0800, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

    >
    > >> (Ray Fischer) wrote:
    > >>>Mike Russell  <> wrote:
    > >>>> PaddleHard wrote:

    >
    > >>>>> I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    > >>>>> while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems
    > >>>>> everytime I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very
    > >>>>> least) to get a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the
    > >>>>> exposure would be overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's
    > >>>>> way overexposed. I've run through all the camera settings--ISO set to
    > >>>>> 400, no bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make
    > >>>>> sure I didn't set some strange exposure compensation.

    >
    > >>>>> Thanks for your thoughts,
    > >>>>> Chris

    >
    > >>>>Could be a sticky diaphragm.  Does this happen with more than one lens?

    >
    > >>>Or a shutter that's getting slow.

    >
    > >> But of course *neither* of those could possibly
    > >> accomplish a 2 fstop over exposure across the board.

    >
    > >Well, that depends.  The OP did say that he tried a variety of camera
    > >settings, but that is not the same as "across the board".  We'll have to
    > >wait and see if more information is forthcoming.

    >
    > >As Ray said, a slow shutter is another possibility.  It does seem to me
    > >that a slow shutter is less likely than a sticky diaphragm, but it could
    > >indeed account for *all* exposures being wrong.

    >
    > >What's your guess.  Or are you just going to naysay, LOL?

    >
    > Well, he already nailed it: "some strange exposure
    > compensation".
    >
    > At least, given the description that is the best guess.
    > But most people are not very good at either descriptions
    > of a trouble or at logically sorting out symptoms to
    > isolate problems; hence what was described is not enough
    > to go on.
    >
    > I'd like to see an image posted somewhere with full Exif
    > data attached.  That might give a hint.  I'd also like
    > to hear that different lenses are affected, that it
    > happens at both ends of the aperture range on at least
    > one lens, and at reasonably fast and reasonably slow
    > shutter speeds too.  And I'd like to hear that all of
    > this was determined while photographying something
    > reasonable...  like a grey card!
    >
    > --
    > Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
    > Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)              


    I have no grey card. I will purchase, run the suggested tests and post
    back the results, along with image(s).
     
    PaddleHard, Sep 30, 2009
    #12
  13. PaddleHard

    Ofnuts Guest

    PaddleHard wrote:
    > On Sep 30, 9:05 am, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    > wrote:
    >> PaddleHard <> wrote:
    >>> Let me try this again....The meter reads that I 'underexposed' an
    >>> image by 2 stops. I press the shutter button. Whamo! The image is
    >>> overexposed. Make sense?

    >> Spot (or center) metering?
    >>
    >> -Wolfgang

    >
    > Spot.


    Is it the measured subject which is overexposed or is it the whole
    picture? If you are using spot measuring when shooting a dark subject on
    a light background, the subject comes out OK but the background is
    overexposed. Do you have a sample picture?

    Note that "I've actually restored factory settings" is normally telling
    us that you are using some more global exposure measurement method.

    --
    Bertrand
     
    Ofnuts, Oct 1, 2009
    #13
  14. On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:20:58 +0100, bugbear
    <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:

    >Mike Russell wrote:
    >
    >> Any uniformly colored card or surface will do - no need to purchase
    >> anything.
    >>
    >> Since this happens with more than one lens, I'm shifting to the sticky
    >> shutter camp until a better theory comes along.

    >
    >If you're old fashioned enough to have one, photographing
    >a record deck (which is turning at a known rate, obviously)
    >you can check your shutter speed.
    >
    > BugBear


    The best way to determine exact shutter-speeds (without expensive lab
    equipment, nor oscilloscope) is by photographing a scanning CRT tube, like
    a non-digital TV or tube-type (CRT) computer monitor. By counting the
    number of full and partial scan-lines recorded in the resulting image (and
    knowing your CRT's refresh rate, 50 or 60 Hz for an analog TV) you can
    determine the precise shutter-speed within a few 10,000ths of a second. For
    an NTSC display in N. America, 60Hz x 525 lines = 31,500 scan-lines per
    second, divided by 2 for interlace still leaves you with 15,750 units of
    measure per second. If you can ascertain the width of partially recorded
    scan-lines then your resolution increases (phosphorescence-delay
    dependent).

    However, this does not work easily with focal-plane shutters. Due to the
    slow snail's pace of the focal-plane shutter's slit across the recording
    plane you end up with distorted numbers of scan-lines recorded. An oddly
    shaped "S" curve of scan-lines being the result if your focal-plane
    shutter's direction of travel is left to right, instead of the same as the
    CRT's scan direction of top to bottom. What you can do however, is orient
    your camera shutter's direction of travel to the top to bottom direction of
    the CRT's scan-lines. Then take two images. One with the camera shutter's
    travel in the same direction of the CRT scan direction (top to bottom), the
    other with the camera shutter's direction of travel 180 degrees to the
    CRT's scan direction. The true shutter-speed will be an average of the
    number of CRT scan-lines recorded between the two images. If using any P&S
    or other leaf-shutter type of camera there is no "direction of travel"
    orientation problem. They do not distort the recording of high-speed
    subjects like any focal-plane shuttered camera will always do.
     
    Easy Test Methods, Oct 1, 2009
    #14
  15. PaddleHard <> wrote:
    > On Sep 30, 9:05 am, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    >> PaddleHard <> wrote:


    >> > Let me try this again....The meter reads that I 'underexposed' an
    >> > image by 2 stops. I press the shutter button. Whamo! The image is
    >> > overexposed. Make sense?


    >> Spot (or center) metering?


    > Spot.


    Try averaged/integral metering. Same problem?

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Oct 1, 2009
    #15
  16. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    On Oct 1, 4:09 am, Ofnuts <> wrote:
    > PaddleHard wrote:
    > > On Sep 30, 9:05 am, Wolfgang Weisselberg <>
    > > wrote:
    > >> PaddleHard <> wrote:
    > >>> Let me try this again....The meter reads that I 'underexposed' an
    > >>> image by 2 stops. I press the shutter button. Whamo! The image is
    > >>> overexposed. Make sense?
    > >> Spot (or center) metering?

    >
    > >> -Wolfgang

    >
    > > Spot.

    >
    > Is it the measured subject which is overexposed or is it the whole
    > picture? If you are using spot measuring when shooting a dark subject on
    >   a light background, the subject comes out OK but the background is
    > overexposed. Do you have a sample picture?
    >
    > Note that "I've actually restored factory settings" is normally telling
    > us that you are using some more global exposure measurement method.
    >
    > --
    > Bertrand


    I'll post more info as possible....Looking at the manual (I made a
    quick assumpt on the metering mode), I'm shooting in 'centerweighted
    average' mode, which is the default when shooting in the Manual
    creative mode.
     
    PaddleHard, Oct 3, 2009
    #16
  17. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    On Sep 30, 6:44 pm, Nicko <> wrote:
    > On Sep 29, 6:39 pm, PaddleHard <> wrote:
    >
    > > I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    > > while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems
    > > everytime I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very
    > > least) to get a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the
    > > exposure would be overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's
    > > way overexposed. I've run through all the camera settings--ISO set to
    > > 400, no bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make
    > > sure I didn't set some strange exposure compensation.

    >
    > Does it overexpose in priority or program exposures?
    >
    > --
    > YOP...


    Thanks for the replies.....I will shoot some tests over the weekend
    (weather depending) and post results.
     
    PaddleHard, Oct 3, 2009
    #17
  18. PaddleHard

    Paul Furman Guest

    Re: |GG| Re: Metering problem

    PaddleHard wrote:
    >
    > I'll post more info as possible....Looking at the manual (I made a
    > quick assumpt on the metering mode), I'm shooting in 'centerweighted
    > average' mode, which is the default when shooting in the Manual
    > creative mode.


    I didn't read the rest of the replies but that's the answer. How can
    they call it manual mode if it's not manual?

    --
    Paul Furman
    www.edgehill.net
    www.baynatives.com

    all google groups messages filtered due to spam
     
    Paul Furman, Oct 3, 2009
    #18
  19. PaddleHard

    PaddleHard Guest

    On Oct 2, 10:08 pm, PaddleHard <> wrote:
    > On Sep 30, 6:44 pm, Nicko <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Sep 29, 6:39 pm, PaddleHard <> wrote:

    >
    > > > I have a Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and I've had a strange issue for a
    > > > while. I usually shoot in manual mode (outdoors) and it seems
    > > > everytime I shoot, I have to stop down by 2 full stops (at the very
    > > > least) to get a 'good' exposure. The meter would show that the
    > > > exposure would be overexposed by -2, yet after taking the shot, it's
    > > > way overexposed. I've run through all the camera settings--ISO set to
    > > > 400, no bracketing....I've actually restored factory settings to make
    > > > sure I didn't set some strange exposure compensation.

    >
    > > Does it overexpose in priority or program exposures?

    >
    > > --
    > > YOP...

    >
    > Thanks for the replies.....I will shoot some tests over the weekend
    > (weather depending) and post results.


    Here's the data....all images use ISO 400, unless otherwise noted.
    I've posted about 11 images to my flickr account with the aperture/
    shutter speed, etc posted as comments. Images were taken in a variety
    of modes, from program to aperture priority to manual. The metering
    mode is based on the mode I'm shooting with, as there is no way to
    change the metering mode other than to change the 'shooting' mode. I
    used two different lenes: Sigma 28-105 and Canon 28-80.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrishall-photo/sets/72157622508076296/
     
    PaddleHard, Oct 3, 2009
    #19
  20. PaddleHard

    J. Clarke Guest

    Re: |GG| Re: Metering problem

    Paul Furman wrote:
    > PaddleHard wrote:
    >>
    >> I'll post more info as possible....Looking at the manual (I made a
    >> quick assumpt on the metering mode), I'm shooting in 'centerweighted
    >> average' mode, which is the default when shooting in the Manual
    >> creative mode.

    >
    > I didn't read the rest of the replies but that's the answer. How can
    > they call it manual mode if it's not manual?


    Tell us how "manual mode" would work on a meter.
     
    J. Clarke, Oct 3, 2009
    #20
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