Medium format back prices ludicrous

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    the LCD screen...

    Luminous Landscape

    Pricing, Availability and Other News

    Phase 80MP back.
    The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160 and
    IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.

    The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.
     
    RichA, Jan 25, 2011
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. RichA

    Eric Stevens Guest

    On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:37:42 -0800 (PST), RichA <>
    wrote:

    >The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    >electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    >electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    >and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    >paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    >the LCD screen...
    >
    >Luminous Landscape
    >
    >Pricing, Availability and Other News
    >
    >Phase 80MP back.
    >The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160 and
    >IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.
    >
    >The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.


    If the prices are outrageous as you suggest it is open for you to make
    a killing selling something much cheaper which does the same job.

    Pure Adam Smith.



    Eric Stevens
     
    Eric Stevens, Jan 25, 2011
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. RichA

    Guest

    On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:37:42 -0800 (PST), RichA <> wrote:

    > The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    > electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    > electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    > and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    > paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    > the LCD screen...


    I doubt you remember when a meg of RAM cost over $600.
     
    , Jan 25, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    Peter Guest

    Your posts are also ludicrous!

    ..

    --------------------------
    The Internet will become the
    Sacred Sanctuary for Nutters,Idiots
    And Trolls

    (Michel Nostradamus, December 14, 1503 - July 2, 1566).
    --------------------------
     
    Peter, Jan 25, 2011
    #4
  5. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jan 25, 3:37 am, Eric Stevens <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:37:42 -0800 (PST), RichA <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > >The price of an entry-level car?  4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    > >electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    > >electronics?.  Pure insanity.  Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    > >and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    > >paid for here?  It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    > >the LCD screen...

    >
    > >Luminous Landscape

    >
    > >Pricing, Availability and Other News

    >
    > >Phase 80MP back.
    > >The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011.  The IQ160 and
    > >IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.

    >
    > >The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.

    >
    > If the prices are outrageous as you suggest it is open for you to make
    > a killing selling something much cheaper which does the same job.
    >
    > Pure Adam Smith.
    >
    > Eric Stevens


    It's going to happen. Either an 80 meg FF sensor will be released, or
    someone like Pentax will release another medium format at 1/2 the
    price. Price vacuums will always be filled.
     
    RichA, Jan 25, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Jan 25, 9:22 am, George Kerby <> wrote:
    > On 1/25/11 12:37 AM, in article
    > , "RichA"
    >
    >
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > > The price of an entry-level car?  4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    > > electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    > > electronics?.  Pure insanity.  Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    > > and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    > > paid for here?  It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    > > the LCD screen...

    >
    > > Luminous Landscape

    >
    > > Pricing, Availability and Other News

    >
    > > Phase 80MP back.
    > > The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011.  The IQ160 and
    > > IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.

    >
    > > The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.

    >
    > It's not for fools like you. That is a PROFESSIONAL


    Oh boy. What does Professional confer? The ability to charge 2-3x
    what the camera should cost? It's like the $35,000 titanium M9.
     
    RichA, Jan 25, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:37:42 -0800 (PST), RichA <> wrote:
    : The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    : electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    : electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    : and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    : paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    : the LCD screen...
    :
    : Luminous Landscape
    :
    : Pricing, Availability and Other News
    :
    : Phase 80MP back.
    : The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160 and
    : IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.
    :
    : The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.

    Rich, I won't buy one if you don't.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 26, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    Eric Stevens Guest

    On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:12:55 -0800 (PST), RichA <>
    wrote:

    >On Jan 25, 3:37 am, Eric Stevens <> wrote:
    >> On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:37:42 -0800 (PST), RichA <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> >The price of an entry-level car?  4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    >> >electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    >> >electronics?.  Pure insanity.  Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    >> >and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    >> >paid for here?  It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    >> >the LCD screen...

    >>
    >> >Luminous Landscape

    >>
    >> >Pricing, Availability and Other News

    >>
    >> >Phase 80MP back.
    >> >The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011.  The IQ160 and
    >> >IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.

    >>
    >> >The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.

    >>
    >> If the prices are outrageous as you suggest it is open for you to make
    >> a killing selling something much cheaper which does the same job.
    >>
    >> Pure Adam Smith.
    >>
    >> Eric Stevens

    >
    >It's going to happen. Either an 80 meg FF sensor will be released, or
    >someone like Pentax will release another medium format at 1/2 the
    >price. Price vacuums will always be filled.


    But not by you, huuh?



    Eric Stevens
     
    Eric Stevens, Jan 26, 2011
    #8
  9. RichA

    peter Guest

    On 1/25/2011 12:37 AM, RichA wrote:
    > The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    > electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    > electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    > and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    > paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    > the LCD screen...
    >
    > Luminous Landscape
    >
    > Pricing, Availability and Other News
    >
    > Phase 80MP back.
    > The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160 and
    > IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.
    >
    > The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.


    So if you see a price vacuum, fill it. That's the capitalist system. To
    constantly carp how some mysterious corporation is overcharging, is pure
    communist propaganda.


    --
    Peter
     
    peter, Jan 27, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    shiva das Guest

    In article <>,
    Alfred Molon <> wrote:

    > In article <C96446BA.46C2B%>, George Kerby
    > says...
    > > It's not for fools like you. That is a PROFESSIONAL piece of equipment.
    > >
    > > The intended market users will soon pay for it in their day to day work.

    >
    > Just curious, what are 80MP images used for? For magazines or brochures
    > less resolution is more than sufficient, so this must be for something
    > larger.


    Billboards
    Posters
    Subway Ads
    Bus Ads
    Signs
    Bus Shelter Ads
    Bus Wrappers
    Trade Show Booths
    Political Conventions
     
    shiva das, Jan 27, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    John A. Guest

    On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:23:46 -0500, shiva das <>
    wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > Alfred Molon <> wrote:
    >
    >> In article <C96446BA.46C2B%>, George Kerby
    >> says...
    >> > It's not for fools like you. That is a PROFESSIONAL piece of equipment.
    >> >
    >> > The intended market users will soon pay for it in their day to day work.

    >>
    >> Just curious, what are 80MP images used for? For magazines or brochures
    >> less resolution is more than sufficient, so this must be for something
    >> larger.

    >
    >Billboards
    >Posters
    >Subway Ads
    >Bus Ads
    >Signs
    >Bus Shelter Ads
    >Bus Wrappers
    >Trade Show Booths
    >Political Conventions


    Aerial mapping?
    Microscopy?
    Intelligence?

    Pretty much anything where the more detail you can get in one shot the
    better.
     
    John A., Jan 27, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    Eric Stevens Guest

    On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:57:31 +0100, Alfred Molon
    <> wrote:

    >In article <C96446BA.46C2B%>, George Kerby
    >says...
    >> It's not for fools like you. That is a PROFESSIONAL piece of equipment.
    >>
    >> The intended market users will soon pay for it in their day to day work.

    >
    >Just curious, what are 80MP images used for? For magazines or brochures
    >less resolution is more than sufficient, so this must be for something
    >larger.


    I'm not entirely sure that you are right. I remember some years ago
    reading an article by professional landscape and nature photographer
    in which he said his customers wanted a minimum of 48 Mp quality. I
    can't remember the details of how he achieved this other than that it
    entailed a special back on a conventional medium format camera.



    Eric Stevens
     
    Eric Stevens, Jan 27, 2011
    #12
  13. RichA

    peter Guest

    On 1/27/2011 4:15 PM, Savageduck wrote:
    > On 2011-01-27 12:21:45 -0800, Eric Stevens <> said:
    >
    >> On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:57:31 +0100, Alfred Molon
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> In article <C96446BA.46C2B%>, George Kerby
    >>> says...
    >>>> It's not for fools like you. That is a PROFESSIONAL piece of equipment.
    >>>>
    >>>> The intended market users will soon pay for it in their day to day
    >>>> work.
    >>>
    >>> Just curious, what are 80MP images used for? For magazines or brochures
    >>> less resolution is more than sufficient, so this must be for something
    >>> larger.

    >>
    >> I'm not entirely sure that you are right. I remember some years ago
    >> reading an article by professional landscape and nature photographer
    >> in which he said his customers wanted a minimum of 48 Mp quality. I
    >> can't remember the details of how he achieved this other than that it
    >> entailed a special back on a conventional medium format camera.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Eric Stevens

    >
    > If you want a 48MP image there is always mosaicing.
    >


    Ah! A new definition for an old word, that formerly had been used in
    connection with map making. I'm sure it will do better than "siskerize."

    Maybe we ought to change the name of this group to alt.new.wordsand
    meanings.


    --
    Peter
     
    peter, Jan 28, 2011
    #13
  14. RichA

    John A. Guest

    On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 00:06:03 -0600, Rich <> wrote:

    >peter <> wrote in news:4d40bc83$0$5627
    >$-secrets.com:
    >
    >> On 1/25/2011 12:37 AM, RichA wrote:
    >>> The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    >>> electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    >>> electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    >>> and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    >>> paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    >>> the LCD screen...
    >>>
    >>> Luminous Landscape
    >>>
    >>> Pricing, Availability and Other News
    >>>
    >>> Phase 80MP back.
    >>> The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160 and
    >>> IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.
    >>>
    >>> The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.

    >>
    >> So if you see a price vacuum, fill it. That's the capitalist system. To
    >> constantly carp how some mysterious corporation is overcharging, is

    >pure
    >> communist propaganda.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Honestly? I think cameras like it and a lot of other things today ARE
    >communist, because they want to force people into the renter's market and
    >not the owner's market. Look at Microsoft trying to force everyone to
    >cloud computing, no more ownership of software. Look at movies, moving
    >away from owned copies like DVD and Blu-Ray to streamed movies from
    >services. All control in the hands of others. It is ALL a form of
    >communism.


    You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it
    means.
     
    John A., Jan 28, 2011
    #14
  15. RichA

    Hans Kruse Guest

    On 2011-01-25 06:37:42 +0100, RichA <> said:

    > The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    > electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    > electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    > and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    > paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    > the LCD screen...
    >
    > Luminous Landscape
    >
    > Pricing, Availability and Other News
    >
    > Phase 80MP back.
    > The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160 and
    > IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.
    >
    > The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.


    Yes, you are right it is a very high price. Every vendor has the right
    to set his own prices. The Phase One folks knows this market segment
    better than anybody, so I'm sure they will sell well. After some time
    the price goes down. It's the same with high-end DSLR's.

    --
    Med venlig hilsen/With Kind Regards,
    Hans Kruse
    www.hanskrusephotography.com, www.hanskruse.com,
    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hans-Kruse-Photography/271477435625
     
    Hans Kruse, Jan 28, 2011
    #15
  16. "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > peter <> wrote in news:4d40bc83$0$5627
    > $-secrets.com:
    >
    >> On 1/25/2011 12:37 AM, RichA wrote:
    >>> The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    >>> electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    >>> electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    >>> and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    >>> paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    >>> the LCD screen...
    >>>
    >>> Luminous Landscape
    >>>
    >>> Pricing, Availability and Other News
    >>>
    >>> Phase 80MP back.
    >>> The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160 and
    >>> IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.
    >>>
    >>> The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.

    >>
    >> So if you see a price vacuum, fill it. That's the capitalist system. To
    >> constantly carp how some mysterious corporation is overcharging, is

    > pure
    >> communist propaganda.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Honestly? I think cameras like it and a lot of other things today ARE
    > communist, because they want to force people into the renter's market and
    > not the owner's market. Look at Microsoft trying to force everyone to
    > cloud computing, no more ownership of software. Look at movies, moving
    > away from owned copies like DVD and Blu-Ray to streamed movies from
    > services. All control in the hands of others. It is ALL a form of
    > communism.


    There is no owning of software. You purchase a license to use it, you never
    own it.
     
    Pete Stavrakoglou, Jan 28, 2011
    #16
  17. RichA

    peter Guest

    On 1/28/2011 1:06 AM, Rich wrote:
    > peter<> wrote in news:4d40bc83$0$5627
    > $-secrets.com:
    >
    >> On 1/25/2011 12:37 AM, RichA wrote:
    >>> The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    >>> electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    >>> electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    >>> and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    >>> paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    >>> the LCD screen...
    >>>
    >>> Luminous Landscape
    >>>
    >>> Pricing, Availability and Other News
    >>>
    >>> Phase 80MP back.
    >>> The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160 and
    >>> IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.
    >>>
    >>> The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.

    >>
    >> So if you see a price vacuum, fill it. That's the capitalist system. To
    >> constantly carp how some mysterious corporation is overcharging, is

    > pure
    >> communist propaganda.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Honestly? I think cameras like it and a lot of other things today ARE
    > communist, because they want to force people into the renter's market and
    > not the owner's market. Look at Microsoft trying to force everyone to
    > cloud computing, no more ownership of software. Look at movies, moving
    > away from owned copies like DVD and Blu-Ray to streamed movies from
    > services. All control in the hands of others. It is ALL a form of
    > communism.


    Get thee to a course in economics 101.
    Learn about economic systems and most importantly, learn the difference
    between communism, socialism and capitalism.
    Also, take marketing 101 and business processes 101.
    Come back in no less than a year and report.

    --
    Peter
     
    peter, Jan 28, 2011
    #17
  18. RichA

    shiva das Guest

    In article <>,
    "David J. Littleboy" <> wrote:

    > "Alan Browne" <> wrote:
    > > On 2011.01.27 20:53 , David J. Littleboy wrote:
    > >> "Alan Browne"<> wrote:
    > >>> On 2011.01.27 18:37 , Alfred Molon wrote:
    > >>>> In article<>, Alan Browne
    > >>>> says...
    > >>>>> That's correct - however the same art on billboards may also appear on
    > >>>>> large poster work for various needs related to the same campaign.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Ok, and before the launch of this new 80MP camera what were people
    > >>>> using? Medium format film?
    > >>>
    > >>> And LF.
    > >>>
    > >>> When I scan MF @ 4000 dpi I get about 78 Mpix. (56 x 4000 / 25.4 )^2
    > >>>
    > >>> A drum scan of MF or LF will yield a lot more...
    > >>
    > >> But they're crap pixels.

    > >
    > > They were the best pixels available at the time.


    "At the time"? At _what_ time? 1999 for the Nikon D1? Drum scanners with
    photomultiplier tubes have been around since the National Bureau of
    Standards' model built in 1957.

    >
    > Well, no. The best pixels available at the time were dSLR pixels; you just
    > didn't get enough of them to outdo the far larger number of pixels you get
    > from scanning MF film.
    >
    > My point is very simply that comparing pixel counts isn't meaningful because
    > the information quantity per pixel is lower in scans than in Bayer dSLR
    > images.
    >
    > > Wet scanning yields cleaner scans. There is a tray kit for the Nikon
    > > 9000D for wet scanning but I've been reluctant to get into that.

    >
    > Only marginally. The problem isn't in the scan, it's in the film. It does
    > make sense to scan with too many pixels, use wet mounting and the like to
    > get the best you can. But there's no way you can make 645 produce better
    > quality prints than the 5D2. And there's no way in hell you can make a
    > snippet of a 4000 ppi film scan look as anywhere near as good as a snippet
    > with the same number of pixels from any dSLR ever made.


    "One of the unique features of drum scanners is the ability to control
    sample area and aperture size independently. The sample size is the area
    that the scanner encoder reads to create an individual pixel. The
    aperture is the actual opening that allows light into the optical bench
    of the scanner. The ability to control aperture and sample size
    separately is particularly useful for smoothing film grain when scanning
    black-and white and color negative originals." --Wiki
     
    shiva das, Jan 29, 2011
    #18
  19. RichA

    Robert Coe Guest

    On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 00:06:03 -0600, Rich <> wrote:
    : peter <> wrote in news:4d40bc83$0$5627
    : $-secrets.com:
    :
    : > On 1/25/2011 12:37 AM, RichA wrote:
    : >> The price of an entry-level car? 4000lbs of steel, plastic, aluminum,
    : >> electronics, base metals, rubber, etc., the same as a 1.5lb piece of
    : >> electronics?. Pure insanity. Those things aren't radiation-hardened
    : >> and going into space, so is it solely the R&D and the sensor being
    : >> paid for here? It certainly isn't the $10-$20 worth of electronics or
    : >> the LCD screen...
    : >>
    : >> Luminous Landscape
    : >>
    : >> Pricing, Availability and Other News
    : >>
    : >> Phase 80MP back.
    : >> The IQ180 back will start to ship in late April, 2011. The IQ160
    : >> and IQ140 will become available over the following couple of months.
    : >>
    : >> The IQ180 will be priced at US $43,990.
    : >
    : > So if you see a price vacuum, fill it. That's the capitalist system.
    : > To constantly carp how some mysterious corporation is overcharging,
    : > is pure communist propaganda.
    :
    : Honestly? I think cameras like it and a lot of other things today ARE
    : communist, because they want to force people into the renter's market
    : and not the owner's market. Look at Microsoft trying to force everyone
    : to cloud computing, no more ownership of software. Look at movies,
    : moving away from owned copies like DVD and Blu-Ray to streamed movies
    : from services. All control in the hands of others. It is ALL a form
    : of communism.

    Your definition of "communism" is so broad that it would have made Joseph
    McCarthy laugh. What you call communism, the Soviet Union habitually referred
    to as decadent bourgeois CAPITALISM.

    Bob
     
    Robert Coe, Jan 29, 2011
    #19
  20. RichA

    John A. Guest

    On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 09:14:02 +0000, bugbear
    <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:

    >John A. wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Honestly? I think cameras like it and a lot of other things today ARE
    >>> communist, because they want to force people into the renter's market and
    >>> not the owner's market. Look at Microsoft trying to force everyone to
    >>> cloud computing, no more ownership of software. Look at movies, moving
    >>> away from owned copies like DVD and Blu-Ray to streamed movies from
    >>> services. All control in the hands of others. It is ALL a form of
    >>> communism.

    >
    >I think you're confusing capitalism's tendancy
    >towards monopoly with communism.
    >
    > BugBear


    I think you're confusing me with the person who posted what you
    quoted.
     
    John A., Jan 30, 2011
    #20
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