medical question

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by DaveG, Nov 22, 2003.

  1. DaveG

    DaveG Guest

    Can anyone settle a "disagreement"?
    If you were to die in a RTA and you carried an organ donor card would
    the vital or other organs still be of value in a medical sense.
    If YES,for how long do the organs remain "good",ie-before they need to
    be treated,removed,frozen or whatever???
    Or do they cease to be useable to hospitals,surgeons etc immediately
    you have died???????????
    Thanks.

    --
    ATB-DaveG.

    "I'm going to give you these pills. They use them for slowing down
    sperm whales, so don't go operating no machinery or talking to the
    human race for about a year and a half."
    DaveG, Nov 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. DaveG

    TRADESMAN Guest

    DaveG wrote:
    > Can anyone settle a "disagreement"?
    > If you were to die in a RTA and you carried an organ donor card would
    > the vital or other organs still be of value in a medical sense.
    > If YES,for how long do the organs remain "good",ie-before they need to
    > be treated,removed,frozen or whatever???
    > Or do they cease to be useable to hospitals,surgeons etc immediately
    > you have died???????????
    > Thanks.


    It depends on whether the injuries damaged the organs.For instance, a
    crushing chest injury is liable to render the heart/lungs unusable.
    At the scene, emergency crews are likely to give CPR which preseves vital
    organ function until the patient reaches Hospital.
    Once there,the patient is hooked up to a heart/lung machine, and if death is
    certified at a later stage(usually due to absent brain function) the organs
    are harvested at leisure. The permission of relatives is always sought as
    they are privy to the decision to turn off the heart/lung machine.
    TRADESMAN, Nov 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. DaveG

    DaveG Guest

    "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    news:bpmj5a$1qdc74$-berlin.de...
    >
    >
    > DaveG wrote:
    > > Can anyone settle a "disagreement"?
    > > If you were to die in a RTA and you carried an organ donor card

    would
    > > the vital or other organs still be of value in a medical sense.
    > > If YES,for how long do the organs remain "good",ie-before they

    need to
    > > be treated,removed,frozen or whatever???
    > > Or do they cease to be useable to hospitals,surgeons etc

    immediately
    > > you have died???????????
    > > Thanks.

    >
    > It depends on whether the injuries damaged the organs.For instance,

    a
    > crushing chest injury is liable to render the heart/lungs unusable.
    > At the scene, emergency crews are likely to give CPR which

    preseves vital
    > organ function until the patient reaches Hospital.
    > Once there,the patient is hooked up to a heart/lung machine, and if

    death is
    > certified at a later stage(usually due to absent brain function) the

    organs
    > are harvested at leisure. The permission of relatives is always

    sought as
    > they are privy to the decision to turn off the heart/lung machine.



    So would it be correct to say that if you have been dead at the
    roadside for up to half an hour and the organs are still intact and
    "good" that said organs may still be preserved in the manner you
    describe for later transplant

    --
    ATB-DaveG.

    "I'm going to give you these pills. They use them for slowing down
    sperm whales, so don't go operating no machinery or talking to the
    human race for about a year and a half."
    DaveG, Nov 22, 2003
    #3
  4. DaveG

    TRADESMAN Guest

    DaveG wrote:
    > "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    > news:bpmj5a$1qdc74$-berlin.de...
    >>
    >>
    >> DaveG wrote:
    >>> Can anyone settle a "disagreement"?
    >>> If you were to die in a RTA and you carried an organ donor card
    >>> would the vital or other organs still be of value in a medical
    >>> sense. If YES,for how long do the organs remain "good",ie-before
    >>> they need to be treated,removed,frozen or whatever???
    >>> Or do they cease to be useable to hospitals,surgeons etc immediately
    >>> you have died???????????
    >>> Thanks.

    >>
    >> It depends on whether the injuries damaged the organs.For instance, a
    >> crushing chest injury is liable to render the heart/lungs unusable.
    >> At the scene, emergency crews are likely to give CPR which
    >> preseves vital organ function until the patient reaches Hospital.
    >> Once there,the patient is hooked up to a heart/lung machine, and if
    >> death is certified at a later stage(usually due to absent brain
    >> function) the organs are harvested at leisure. The permission of
    >> relatives is always sought as they are privy to the decision to turn
    >> off the heart/lung machine.

    >
    >
    > So would it be correct to say that if you have been dead at the
    > roadside for up to half an hour and the organs are still intact and
    > "good" that said organs may still be preserved in the manner you
    > describe for later transplant
    >
    >
    > Given that scenario, it is unlikely that major organs would be of any use.

    Without an established circulation the body organs deteriorate very quickly,
    and the patients own retained body heat contributes very much to the
    process.
    Certain"bits" such as Corneas may still be used as they are not as sensitive
    to interupted circulation.
    Also ,you must remember that when emergency crews arrive at an accident
    scene they will not know the time of death and are likely to go into CPR
    mode anyway.
    Every case is considered on its own merits.
    TRADESMAN, Nov 22, 2003
    #4
  5. DaveG

    DaveG Guest

    "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    news:bpnfvs$1qlfbr$-berlin.de...
    >
    >
    > DaveG wrote:
    > > "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bpmj5a$1qdc74$-berlin.de...
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> DaveG wrote:
    > >>> Can anyone settle a "disagreement"?
    > >>> If you were to die in a RTA and you carried an organ donor card
    > >>> would the vital or other organs still be of value in a medical
    > >>> sense. If YES,for how long do the organs remain "good",ie-before
    > >>> they need to be treated,removed,frozen or whatever???
    > >>> Or do they cease to be useable to hospitals,surgeons etc

    immediately
    > >>> you have died???????????
    > >>> Thanks.
    > >>
    > >> It depends on whether the injuries damaged the organs.For

    instance, a
    > >> crushing chest injury is liable to render the heart/lungs

    unusable.
    > >> At the scene, emergency crews are likely to give CPR which
    > >> preseves vital organ function until the patient reaches Hospital.
    > >> Once there,the patient is hooked up to a heart/lung machine, and

    if
    > >> death is certified at a later stage(usually due to absent brain
    > >> function) the organs are harvested at leisure. The permission of
    > >> relatives is always sought as they are privy to the decision to

    turn
    > >> off the heart/lung machine.

    > >
    > >
    > > So would it be correct to say that if you have been dead at the
    > > roadside for up to half an hour and the organs are still intact

    and
    > > "good" that said organs may still be preserved in the manner you
    > > describe for later transplant
    > >
    > >
    > > Given that scenario, it is unlikely that major organs would be of

    any use.
    > Without an established circulation the body organs deteriorate very

    quickly,
    > and the patients own retained body heat contributes very much to the
    > process.
    > Certain"bits" such as Corneas may still be used as they are not as

    sensitive
    > to interupted circulation.
    > Also ,you must remember that when emergency crews arrive at an

    accident
    > scene they will not know the time of death and are likely to go into

    CPR
    > mode anyway.
    > Every case is considered on its own merits.


    Thanks for your replies.
    One last if you will.
    When CPR is applied the heartbeat is restored and breathing is
    restored, yes?
    And so under these conditions if they are right,vital organs may later
    be saved,but what of the brain?
    Presumably if you have died the heart,lungs,vital organs can continue
    to function without a "living" brain??
    Something akin to comatose?

    --
    ATB-DaveG.

    "I'm going to give you these pills. They use them for slowing down
    sperm whales, so don't go operating no machinery or talking to the
    human race for about a year and a half."
    DaveG, Nov 22, 2003
    #5
  6. DaveG

    TRADESMAN Guest

    DaveG wrote:
    > "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    > news:bpnfvs$1qlfbr$-berlin.de...
    >>
    >>
    >> DaveG wrote:
    >>> "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:bpmj5a$1qdc74$-berlin.de...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> DaveG wrote:
    >>>>> Can anyone settle a "disagreement"?
    >>>>> If you were to die in a RTA and you carried an organ donor card
    >>>>> would the vital or other organs still be of value in a medical
    >>>>> sense. If YES,for how long do the organs remain "good",ie-before
    >>>>> they need to be treated,removed,frozen or whatever???
    >>>>> Or do they cease to be useable to hospitals,surgeons etc
    >>>>> immediately you have died???????????
    >>>>> Thanks.
    >>>>
    >>>> It depends on whether the injuries damaged the organs.For
    >>>> instance, a crushing chest injury is liable to render the
    >>>> heart/lungs unusable. At the scene, emergency crews are likely
    >>>> to give CPR which preseves vital organ function until the patient
    >>>> reaches Hospital. Once there,the patient is hooked up to a
    >>>> heart/lung machine, and if death is certified at a later
    >>>> stage(usually due to absent brain function) the organs are
    >>>> harvested at leisure. The permission of relatives is always sought
    >>>> as they are privy to the decision to turn off the heart/lung
    >>>> machine.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> So would it be correct to say that if you have been dead at the
    >>> roadside for up to half an hour and the organs are still intact and
    >>> "good" that said organs may still be preserved in the manner you
    >>> describe for later transplant
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Given that scenario, it is unlikely that major organs would be of

    > any use.
    >> Without an established circulation the body organs deteriorate very
    >> quickly, and the patients own retained body heat contributes very
    >> much to the process.
    >> Certain"bits" such as Corneas may still be used as they are not as
    >> sensitive to interupted circulation.
    >> Also ,you must remember that when emergency crews arrive at an
    >> accident scene they will not know the time of death and are likely
    >> to go into CPR mode anyway.
    >> Every case is considered on its own merits.

    >
    > Thanks for your replies.
    > One last if you will.
    > When CPR is applied the heartbeat is restored and breathing is
    > restored, yes?
    > And so under these conditions if they are right,vital organs may later
    > be saved,but what of the brain?
    > Presumably if you have died the heart,lungs,vital organs can continue
    > to function without a "living" brain??
    > Something akin to comatose?
    >
    >

    Not quite sure what you mean, but without an established circulation the
    brain is damaged beyond repair within 3 or 4 minutes. Brain function(or lack
    of it!) has no bearing on ciculation. Thus it is possible for the whole of
    the cranium to be crushed and the patient will still breathe and the heart
    will continue to beat.
    Provided the blood supply is re- established PDQ, an absent brain does not
    affect outcome.

    --
    As some newsgroup members have no doubt found
    >
    >
    TRADESMAN, Nov 22, 2003
    #6
  7. DaveG

    Scrote Guest

    "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    news:bpnipr$1pi3t0$-berlin.de...
    >
    >
    > DaveG wrote:
    > > "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bpnfvs$1qlfbr$-berlin.de...
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> DaveG wrote:
    > >>> "TRADESMAN" <> wrote in message
    > >>> news:bpmj5a$1qdc74$-berlin.de...
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>> DaveG wrote:
    > >>>>> Can anyone settle a "disagreement"?
    > >>>>> If you were to die in a RTA and you carried an organ donor card
    > >>>>> would the vital or other organs still be of value in a medical
    > >>>>> sense. If YES,for how long do the organs remain "good",ie-before
    > >>>>> they need to be treated,removed,frozen or whatever???
    > >>>>> Or do they cease to be useable to hospitals,surgeons etc
    > >>>>> immediately you have died???????????
    > >>>>> Thanks.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> It depends on whether the injuries damaged the organs.For
    > >>>> instance, a crushing chest injury is liable to render the
    > >>>> heart/lungs unusable. At the scene, emergency crews are likely
    > >>>> to give CPR which preseves vital organ function until the patient
    > >>>> reaches Hospital. Once there,the patient is hooked up to a
    > >>>> heart/lung machine, and if death is certified at a later
    > >>>> stage(usually due to absent brain function) the organs are
    > >>>> harvested at leisure. The permission of relatives is always

    sought
    > >>>> as they are privy to the decision to turn off the heart/lung
    > >>>> machine.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> So would it be correct to say that if you have been dead at the
    > >>> roadside for up to half an hour and the organs are still intact

    and
    > >>> "good" that said organs may still be preserved in the manner you
    > >>> describe for later transplant
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> Given that scenario, it is unlikely that major organs would be of

    > > any use.
    > >> Without an established circulation the body organs deteriorate very
    > >> quickly, and the patients own retained body heat contributes very
    > >> much to the process.
    > >> Certain"bits" such as Corneas may still be used as they are not as
    > >> sensitive to interupted circulation.
    > >> Also ,you must remember that when emergency crews arrive at an
    > >> accident scene they will not know the time of death and are likely
    > >> to go into CPR mode anyway.
    > >> Every case is considered on its own merits.

    > >
    > > Thanks for your replies.
    > > One last if you will.
    > > When CPR is applied the heartbeat is restored and breathing is
    > > restored, yes?
    > > And so under these conditions if they are right,vital organs may

    later
    > > be saved,but what of the brain?
    > > Presumably if you have died the heart,lungs,vital organs can

    continue
    > > to function without a "living" brain??
    > > Something akin to comatose?
    > >
    > >

    > Not quite sure what you mean, but without an established circulation

    the
    > brain is damaged beyond repair within 3 or 4 minutes. Brain

    function(or lack
    > of it!) has no bearing on ciculation. Thus it is possible for the

    whole of
    > the cranium to be crushed and the patient will still breathe and the

    heart
    > will continue to beat.
    > Provided the blood supply is re- established PDQ, an absent brain does

    not
    > affect outcome.
    >
    > --
    > As some newsgroup members have no doubt found
    > >
    > >

    > :)
    >
    Scrote, Nov 22, 2003
    #7
  8. DaveG

    Mitch Guest

    In article <bpngob$bip$>, DaveG
    <> wrote:

    > When CPR is applied the heartbeat is restored and breathing is
    > restored, yes?


    Not in the way that you seem to be aiming.
    CPR is simply a way to continue some circulation and breathing so that
    the body may survive during those minutes.
    The steps of CPR themselves are not alone sufficient to revive heart
    and lung activity; the body has to help itself.

    What I mean is, CPR alone is not much of a substitute, nor enough to
    revive a body. The body has to be capable of returning to these
    functions on it's own.
    Mitch, Nov 23, 2003
    #8
  9. DaveG

    DaveG Guest

    "Mitch" <> wrote in message
    news:221120031843173629%...
    > In article <bpngob$bip$>, DaveG
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > When CPR is applied the heartbeat is restored and breathing is
    > > restored, yes?

    >
    > Not in the way that you seem to be aiming.
    > CPR is simply a way to continue some circulation and breathing so

    that
    > the body may survive during those minutes.
    > The steps of CPR themselves are not alone sufficient to revive heart
    > and lung activity; the body has to help itself.
    >
    > What I mean is, CPR alone is not much of a substitute, nor enough to
    > revive a body. The body has to be capable of returning to these
    > functions on it's own.


    Cheers,that's a little clearer for me ;-)

    ATB-DG.
    DaveG, Nov 23, 2003
    #9
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