[Media] Quebec Engineer Win Court Battle Against Microsoft

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by Brian, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. Brian

    Brian Guest

    The software giant is penalized for the first time over its use of the word
    "engineer" in its professional certification program. Just when you thought
    it was over, an old debate is reignited.

    http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=55274

    Okay, instead how's about "Microsoft Certified Systems
    Engineer-except-in-Quebec?"
     
    Brian, Apr 8, 2004
    #1
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  2. Brian

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    "Brian" <reply2me@thenewsgroup> wrote in news:u9HVsdXHEHA.700
    @TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl:

    > http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=55274


    i do agree with the ruling. but what's the point? why target microsoft?

    below a brief listing of certs with the word engineer in them. what are
    they going to do? sue all the vendors one by one?

    man, i hope my tax payer dollars didn't go towards paying for this bull
    $hit? i would much rather the money go to unemployed east coast fishermen's
    families or the aboriginals. :-(

    --

    Matching Certifications:
    1. Accredited Systems Engineer (ASE)

    2. Aprisma Certified Engineer (ACE)

    3. Authorized Crystal Engineer (ACE)

    4. Business Analysis for Software Engineering Certified Professional

    5. Caldera Advanced Certified Engineer (ACE)

    6. Caldera Master Advanced Certified Engineer (Master ACE)

    7. Certified Linux Engineer (CLE)

    8. Certified Novell Engineer (CNE)

    9. Certified Software Quality Engineer (CSQE)

    10. Certified Software Test Engineer (CSTE)

    11. Certified Systems Engineer

    12. Certified Unicenter Specialist/Engineer (CA-CUSE)

    13. Enterasys Security Systems Engineer (ESSE)

    14. Enterasys Systems Engineer (ESE)

    15. Extreme Networks Expert Engineer

    16. Field Certified Hardware Engineer (FCHE)

    17. Field Certified Systems Engineer (FCSE)

    18. Foundry Networks Certified Network Engineer

    19. Global Knowledge ATM Engineer

    20. Global Knowledge Broadband Engineer

    21. Global Knowledge Data Communications Engineer

    22. Global Knowledge VoIP Engineer

    23. Marimba Certified Engineer (MCE)

    24. Master Accredited Systems Engineer (Master ASE)

    25. Master Certified Novell Engineer (MCNE)

    26. Master Sair Linux/GNU Certified Engineer (MLCE)

    27. NACSE Network Consultant/Engineer (NNC, NNCE)

    28. NACSE NOS InterOp Associate/Engineer (NNIA, NNIAE)

    29. NACSE NOS InterOp Specialist/Engineer (NNIS, NNISE)

    30. NACSE Senior Network Designer/Engineer (NSND/ NSNE)

    31. NARTE Certified Engineer (NCE) - Wireless Systems Installer

    32. Red Hat Certified Engineer (RHCE)

    33. RSA Certified Systems Engineer (RSA/CSE)

    34. SAIR, Linux/GNU Certified Engineer (LCE)

    35. Software Engineering Management Certified Professional

    36. Software Engineering Process Certified Professional

    37. Spectrum Engineer (SE)

    38. Spectrum Solutions Engineer (SSE)

    39. Sun Certified Backup and Recovery Engineer

    40. Sun Certified Data Management Engineer

    41. Sun Certified Engineer for Sun ONE Application Server

    42. Symantec Certified Security Engineer (SCSE)

    43. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE)

    44. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer: Messaging (MCSE:Messaging)

    45. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer: Security (MCSE:Security)
    --

    Rowdy Yates
    --
    "the man who tried and failed miserably"
     
    Rowdy Yates, Apr 8, 2004
    #2
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  3. Brian

    JaR Guest

    Rowdy Yates opined, On 4/8/04 7:53 AM:
    <snippareno>
    >
    > 44. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer: Messaging (MCSE:Messaging)
    >
    > 45. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer: Security (MCSE:Security)


    Oooh, oooh! Mr. Kotter!

    What about them guys that drive trains? Ain't they Engineers, too?

    A. Horshack
     
    JaR, Apr 8, 2004
    #3
  4. "JaR" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Rowdy Yates opined, On 4/8/04 7:53 AM:
    > <snippareno>
    > >
    > > 44. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer: Messaging (MCSE:Messaging)
    > >
    > > 45. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer: Security (MCSE:Security)

    >
    > Oooh, oooh! Mr. Kotter!
    >
    > What about them guys that drive trains? Ain't they Engineers, too?
    >
    > A. Horshack


    Sanitation engineers (i.e. trashmen)?

    --
    Politician Spock
    Thug #24601
     
    Politician Spock, Apr 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Brian

    Neil Guest

    Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    news:Xns94C56EC11EA1Erowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:

    > man, i hope my tax payer dollars didn't go towards paying for this bull
    > $hit?


    of course it did, your Canadian...(duh)

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, Apr 8, 2004
    #5
  6. Brian

    Ron Guest

    If all these high falutin' Canadian "engineers" with
    their college degrees can sit down and pass the 17 exams
    that I have taken over the past 7 years, they'll KNOW
    that it's probably equivalent to a MASTER'S program at
    the college level in terms of study, application, and
    testing. I'm an IS manager who has designed, installed,
    and configured systems that were just as complex as
    someone who has to figure out how to get an empty corn
    flakes box from one end of the assembly line to the
    other!!!! I, for one, resent their holier than thou
    attitude about my credentials (given the fact that there
    are SOME MSCE's out there who don't have a clue as to
    where the on/off switch is on the server).
    >-----Original Message-----
    >The software giant is penalized for the first time over

    its use of the word
    >"engineer" in its professional certification program.

    Just when you thought
    >it was over, an old debate is reignited.
    >
    >http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=55274
    >
    >Okay, instead how's about "Microsoft Certified Systems
    >Engineer-except-in-Quebec?"
    >
    >
    >.
    >
     
    Ron, Apr 8, 2004
    #6
  7. Brian

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    Neil <> wrote in
    news:Xns94C579378FF97neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16:

    > Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    > news:Xns94C56EC11EA1Erowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:
    >
    >> man, i hope my tax payer dollars didn't go towards paying for this bull
    >> $hit?

    >
    > of course it did, your Canadian...(duh)
    >


    guess what rowdy's doing this long weekend.....

    sfw - http://www.acclaim.com/games/beachvolleyball/index.html

    bum-dee-bum-dee-bum...

    ain't it great to live in "fantasy" land....:)

    Rowdy Yates
    --
    "the man who tried and failed miserably"
     
    Rowdy Yates, Apr 8, 2004
    #7
  8. Brian

    Neil Guest

    Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    news:Xns94C57ACC57204rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:

    > guess what rowdy's doing this long weekend.....
    >
    > sfw - http://www.acclaim.com/games/beachvolleyball/index.html
    >
    > bum-dee-bum-dee-bum...
    >
    > ain't it great to live in "fantasy" land....:)
    >


    so then both hands will be occupied with different tasks...

    :)

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, Apr 8, 2004
    #8
  9. Brian

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    Neil <> wrote in
    news:Xns94C57D6AA69CBneilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16:

    > Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    > news:Xns94C57ACC57204rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:
    >
    >> guess what rowdy's doing this long weekend.....
    >>
    >> sfw - http://www.acclaim.com/games/beachvolleyball/index.html
    >>
    >> bum-dee-bum-dee-bum...
    >>
    >> ain't it great to live in "fantasy" land....:)
    >>

    >
    > so then both hands will be occupied with different tasks...
    >
    >:)
    >


    LOL... party....!!!!!!!



    Rowdy Yates
    --
    "the man who tried and failed miserably"
     
    Rowdy Yates, Apr 8, 2004
    #9
  10. Brian

    Neil Guest

    Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    news:Xns94C57EBE85E15rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:

    >
    > LOL... party....!!!!!!!


    not until JaR does his countdown. I wonder if he will be counting it on the
    Thursday as opposed to the Friday. I would assume so.

    Hey, I just remembered I get the Monday off too. (I love government
    work...) And It's my Birthday this Sunday...wadjagemme?

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, Apr 8, 2004
    #10
  11. Brian

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    "Ron" <> wrote in news:1a16701c41d83
    $0cd678c0$:

    > If all these high falutin' Canadian "engineers" with
    > their college degrees can sit down and pass the 17 exams
    > that I have taken over the past 7 years, they'll KNOW
    > that it's probably equivalent to a MASTER'S program at
    > the college level in terms of study, application, and
    > testing. I'm an IS manager who has designed, installed,
    > and configured systems that were just as complex as
    > someone who has to figure out how to get an empty corn
    > flakes box from one end of the assembly line to the
    > other!!!! I, for one, resent their holier than thou
    > attitude about my credentials (given the fact that there
    > are SOME MSCE's out there who don't have a clue as to
    > where the on/off switch is on the server).
    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>The software giant is penalized for the first time over

    > its use of the word
    >>"engineer" in its professional certification program.

    > Just when you thought
    >>it was over, an old debate is reignited.
    >>
    >>http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=55274
    >>
    >>Okay, instead how's about "Microsoft Certified Systems
    >>Engineer-except-in-Quebec?"
    >>
    >>
    >>.
    >>


    i think their argument is, if you didn't get it from an accreddited
    university, it shouldn't have the word "engineer" in the title.

    which is fine by me, as i stated on another post. i think we are really
    "administrators". we don't "engineer" the systems, pre se. we buy them from
    vendors that have looked after the "engineering" process of the systems.


    Rowdy Yates
    --
    "the man who tried and failed miserably"
     
    Rowdy Yates, Apr 8, 2004
    #11
  12. Brian

    Ken Briscoe Guest

    "Neil" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94C57FCB5B75neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
    > Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    > news:Xns94C57EBE85E15rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:
    >
    > >
    > > LOL... party....!!!!!!!

    >
    > not until JaR does his countdown. I wonder if he will be counting it on

    the
    > Thursday as opposed to the Friday. I would assume so.
    >


    I dunno, ask JaR. My beer-thirty is still Friday this week, though. <insert
    frown>

    > Hey, I just remembered I get the Monday off too. (I love government
    > work...) And It's my Birthday this Sunday...wadjagemme?


    "Same thing I got you last year"

    --

    KB - MCNGP "silent thug" #26

    first initial last name AT hotmail DOT com
     
    Ken Briscoe, Apr 8, 2004
    #12
  13. Brian

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    Neil <> wrote in
    news:Xns94C57FCB5B75neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16:

    > Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    > news:Xns94C57EBE85E15rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:
    >
    >>
    >> LOL... party....!!!!!!!

    >
    > not until JaR does his countdown. I wonder if he will be counting it on the
    > Thursday as opposed to the Friday. I would assume so.
    >
    > Hey, I just remembered I get the Monday off too. (I love government
    > work...) And It's my Birthday this Sunday...wadjagemme?
    >


    i stared drinkin last night..

    btw - happy b-day. what are you now, 82? :)

    Rowdy Yates
    --
    "the man who tried and failed miserably"
     
    Rowdy Yates, Apr 8, 2004
    #13
  14. Brian

    Ken Briscoe Guest

    "Rowdy Yates" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94C58048BC4A1rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16...
    >
    > i think their argument is,


    silly?

    if you didn't get it from an accreddited
    > university, it shouldn't have the word "engineer" in the title.


    oh. what does being an engineer have to do with an accredited university?
    usually one follows the other, but that's technically up to the employer. I
    might have crazy mad drafting skillz, but no diploma, and get hired to build
    bridges. Probably not, but not out of the realm of possibilities.

    >
    > which is fine by me, as i stated on another post. i think we are really
    > "administrators". we don't "engineer" the systems, pre se. we buy them

    from
    > vendors that have looked after the "engineering" process of the systems.


    True enough. Even those who design and implement networks aren't really
    engineers, I guess. But lots of titles don't make much sense, yet remain
    because of custom. Are these canadian engineers (oxymoron? *runs*) so
    insecure that they can't handle a few computer geeks calling themselves
    engineers? Ijuts.

    --

    KB - MCNGP "silent thug" #26

    first initial last name AT hotmail DOT com
     
    Ken Briscoe, Apr 8, 2004
    #14
  15. Brian

    Neil Guest

    "Ken Briscoe" <> wrote in news:#MFyCgYHEHA.3576
    @TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

    >
    > "Same thing I got you last year"


    we did this already and you called it a boring thread...

    (but thanks for the thought <grin>)

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, Apr 8, 2004
    #15
  16. Brian

    Ken Briscoe Guest

    "Rowdy Yates" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns94C580DA01109rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16...
    >
    > i stared drinkin last night..


    but the question is: did you stop?

    --

    KB - MCNGP "silent thug" #26

    first initial last name AT hotmail DOT com
     
    Ken Briscoe, Apr 8, 2004
    #16
  17. Brian

    JaR Guest

    Ken Briscoe opined, On 4/8/04 9:39 AM:

    > "Neil" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns94C57FCB5B75neilmcsehotmailcom@207.46.248.16...
    >
    >>Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    >>news:Xns94C57EBE85E15rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:
    >>
    >>
    >>>LOL... party....!!!!!!!

    >>
    >>not until JaR does his countdown. I wonder if he will be counting it on

    >
    > the
    >
    >>Thursday as opposed to the Friday. I would assume so.
    >>

    >
    >
    > I dunno, ask JaR. My beer-thirty is still Friday this week, though. <insert
    > frown>


    Yes, beer-thirty is still slated for Friday, as usual. Unlike gummint
    employees, the rest of us peons must toil on.

    >
    >>Hey, I just remembered I get the Monday off too. (I love government
    >>work...) And It's my Birthday this Sunday...wadjagemme?

    >
    >
    > "Same thing I got you last year"
    >


    Oh, crap! Now he's gonna get two of them. Well, he can share one with Rowdy.

    JaR
    Generous Thug
     
    JaR, Apr 8, 2004
    #17
  18. Brian

    Neil Guest

    Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    news:Xns94C580DA01109rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:

    > i stared drinkin last night..


    and it shows in your spelling...

    >
    > btw - happy b-day. what are you now, 82? :)
    >


    oh, to be that young again....

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, Apr 8, 2004
    #18
  19. Brian

    Neil Guest

    Rowdy Yates <> wrote in
    news:Xns94C58048BC4A1rowdyyates2123@207.46.248.16:

    > we don't "engineer" the systems, pre se. we buy them from
    > vendors that have looked after the "engineering" process of the

    systems.
    >


    Speak for yourself. A lot of us have designed this from the ground up and
    although I might get input from various vendors, it’s my design. Do I
    have the nice little ring for my finger, no. Do I have a problem with Mr.
    Engineer thinking my title should be changed? Not really. Call me what
    ever you want, but the ring and a sheet of paper don't mean a tinkers
    damn if you are good enough to do the job. And I would not want Mr.
    Engineer to be within 1000 feet of my network...

    Cripes, we've already decided that the paper is only worth the paper it's
    written on. Why would someone else’s paper be worth anymore than mine
    unless it was made of more expensive paper? There are good engineers and
    bad ones...this is the "a rose by any other name" argument...

    --
    Neil
    "you'd do what, to who, for how many biscuits?"
     
    Neil, Apr 8, 2004
    #19
  20. Brian

    Spyke Guest

    "Politician Spock" <> wrote in message
    news:OV$...
    > "JaR" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Rowdy Yates opined, On 4/8/04 7:53 AM:
    > > <snippareno>
    > > >
    > > > 44. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer: Messaging (MCSE:Messaging)
    > > >
    > > > 45. Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer: Security (MCSE:Security)

    > >
    > > Oooh, oooh! Mr. Kotter!
    > >
    > > What about them guys that drive trains? Ain't they Engineers, too?
    > >
    > > A. Horshack

    >
    > Sanitation engineers (i.e. trashmen)?
    >
    > --
    > Politician Spock
    > Thug #24601
    >
    >


    Domestic Engineers (i.e. housewives) :)

    Cheers,
    Spyke
     
    Spyke, Apr 8, 2004
    #20
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