MCSE training

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Ray Greene, Jun 3, 2009.

  1. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE. She's looking at
    training options and there are a number of online training providers
    around.

    Has anyone tried online training, and can you recommend a provider?

    --
    Ray Greene
     
    Ray Greene, Jun 3, 2009
    #1
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  2. In message <>, Ray Greene wrote:

    > We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.


    I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 3, 2009
    #2
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  3. Ray Greene

    Guest

    On Jun 3, 8:26 pm, Ray Greene <> wrote:
    > We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE. She's looking at
    > training options and there are a number of online training providers
    > around.
    >
    > Has anyone tried online training, and can you recommend a provider?
    >
    > --
    > Ray Greene


    A couple of the team at work are using the Seek e-learning portal
    which they seem to quite like. If she's got a good basic knowledge,
    then setting up a mini-lab using some VM's on a single machine or a
    few physical PC's, switches/routers etc. and going through some of the
    MCSE training guides could also do her just as good.

    Personally, I use the latter technique.
     
    , Jun 3, 2009
    #3
  4. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 01:57:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

    >On Jun 3, 8:26 pm, Ray Greene <> wrote:
    >> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE. She's looking at
    >> training options and there are a number of online training providers
    >> around.
    >>
    >> Has anyone tried online training, and can you recommend a provider?
    >>
    >> --
    >> Ray Greene

    >
    >A couple of the team at work are using the Seek e-learning portal
    >which they seem to quite like. If she's got a good basic knowledge,
    >then setting up a mini-lab using some VM's on a single machine or a
    >few physical PC's, switches/routers etc. and going through some of the
    >MCSE training guides could also do her just as good.
    >
    >Personally, I use the latter technique.


    Yeah, the mini-lab is a must-do. Where are the training guides
    available from?
    I'll let her know about Seek, it looks like the sort of thing she's
    after.

    --
    Ray Greene
     
    Ray Greene, Jun 3, 2009
    #4
  5. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:50:56 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:

    >In message <>, Ray Greene wrote:
    >
    >> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.

    >
    >I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    >vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.


    How much less do you think should we pay her when she finishes her
    Cisco certification?

    --
    Ray Greene
     
    Ray Greene, Jun 3, 2009
    #5
  6. In message <>, Ray Greene wrote:

    > On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:50:56 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    > <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >>In message <>, Ray Greene wrote:
    >>
    >>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.

    >>
    >>I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    >>vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.

    >
    > How much less do you think should we pay her when she finishes her
    > Cisco certification?


    Passive-aggressiveness will get you nowhere.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 3, 2009
    #6
  7. Ray Greene

    Jack Spratt Guest

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:h05hl5$k6k$...
    > In message <>, Ray Greene wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:50:56 +1200, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    >> <_zealand> wrote:
    >>
    >>>In message <>, Ray Greene
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.
    >>>
    >>>I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    >>>vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.

    >>
    >> How much less do you think should we pay her when she finishes her
    >> Cisco certification?

    >
    > Passive-aggressiveness will get you nowhere.


    Reading surveys will get you nowhere. Luckily you have 24 hours a day to
    burn.
     
    Jack Spratt, Jun 3, 2009
    #7
  8. Ray Greene

    Enkidu Guest

    Ray Greene wrote:
    >
    > We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE. She's looking at
    > training options and there are a number of online training providers
    > around.
    >
    > Has anyone tried online training, and can you recommend a provider?
    >

    I recommend classroom training over online training, though the online
    stuff can help after that. Unless she is only interested in the MCSE as
    a piece of paper, experience is the best teacher. It is possible to take
    the MCSE almost without touching a computer, because of the limited
    options for questions, but I'd question that value of that sort of MCSE
    to an employer. I like the Auldhouse courses.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jun 4, 2009
    #8
  9. Ray Greene

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Ray Greene wrote:
    >
    >> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.

    >
    > I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    > vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.
    >

    You "read somewhere"??

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jun 4, 2009
    #9
  10. Ray Greene

    Enkidu Guest

    geoff wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In message <>, Ray Greene
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.

    >> I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    >> vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.

    >
    > Probably a Linux-enthusiast survey then.
    >
    > I always find real courses far more satisfactory than 'online'.
    >
    > With MCSE be prepared for an ongoing committment to cost of keeping it
    > 'current'.
    >

    Tell me about it! I got a few NT courses, then couldn't get the time to
    do the rest. Then 2000 came along and I did the first few, then couldn't
    find the time to do the rest.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jun 4, 2009
    #10
  11. Ray Greene

    Enkidu Guest

    Ray Greene wrote:
    > On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 01:57:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
    >
    >> On Jun 3, 8:26 pm, Ray Greene <> wrote:
    >>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE. She's looking at
    >>> training options and there are a number of online training providers
    >>> around.
    >>>
    >>> Has anyone tried online training, and can you recommend a provider?
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> Ray Greene

    >> A couple of the team at work are using the Seek e-learning portal
    >> which they seem to quite like. If she's got a good basic knowledge,
    >> then setting up a mini-lab using some VM's on a single machine or a
    >> few physical PC's, switches/routers etc. and going through some of the
    >> MCSE training guides could also do her just as good.
    >>
    >> Personally, I use the latter technique.

    >
    > Yeah, the mini-lab is a must-do. Where are the training guides
    > available from?
    >

    Amazon? Any good bookseller.
    >
    > I'll let her know about Seek, it looks like the sort of thing she's
    > after.
    >

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jun 4, 2009
    #11
  12. In article <4a272e85$>, Enkidu <> wrote:
    >Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> In message <>, Ray Greene wrote:
    >>
    >>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.

    >>
    >> I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    >> vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.
    >>

    >You "read somewhere"??


    Please ... why does anyonet have Lawrence out of the bit bucket ?
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Jun 4, 2009
    #12
  13. Ray Greene

    Jack Spratt Guest

    "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    news:4a272e34$...
    > Ray Greene wrote:
    > >
    >> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE. She's looking at
    >> training options and there are a number of online training providers
    >> around.
    >>
    >> Has anyone tried online training, and can you recommend a provider?
    >>

    > I recommend classroom training over online training, though the online
    > stuff can help after that. Unless she is only interested in the MCSE as a
    > piece of paper, experience is the best teacher. It is possible to take the
    > MCSE almost without touching a computer, because of the limited options
    > for questions, but I'd question that value of that sort of MCSE to an
    > employer. I like the Auldhouse courses.


    I like Auldhouse too.
    I'm off to one of theirs in a couple of weeks.



    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff
    >
    > --
    >
    > The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change, the
    > same old personalities show through.
     
    Jack Spratt, Jun 4, 2009
    #13
  14. In message <h05dhh$hra$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > In message <>, Ray Greene wrote:
    >
    >> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.

    >
    > I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    > vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.


    Here's one <http://www.asponline.com/certify.pdf> that shows a positive
    correlation, but only a small one.

    To me, it comes down to whether you want a trained lab rat who knows how to
    negotiate your particular maze, or someone with an education to take on
    problems that you might not be able to predict, now and in the future.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jun 4, 2009
    #14
  15. Ray Greene

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <h05dhh$hra$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >
    >> In message <>, Ray Greene
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.

    >> I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation
    >> between vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.

    >
    > Here's one <http://www.asponline.com/certify.pdf> that shows a
    > positive correlation, but only a small one.
    >

    So you are withdrawing your claim?
    >
    > To me, it comes down to whether you want a trained lab rat who knows
    > how to negotiate your particular maze, or someone with an education
    > to take on problems that you might not be able to predict, now and in
    > the future.
    >

    That's unrelated to what you claimed.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jun 4, 2009
    #15
  16. Ray Greene

    Enkidu Guest

    Bobs wrote:
    > Enkidu wrote:
    >> geoff wrote:
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>> In message <>, Ray Greene
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.
    >>>> I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    >>>> vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.
    >>>
    >>> Probably a Linux-enthusiast survey then.
    >>>
    >>> I always find real courses far more satisfactory than 'online'.
    >>>
    >>> With MCSE be prepared for an ongoing committment to cost of keeping
    >>> it 'current'.
    >>>

    >> Tell me about it! I got a few NT courses, then couldn't get the time
    >> to do the rest. Then 2000 came along and I did the first few, then
    >> couldn't find the time to do the rest.

    >
    > Well, that is what makes MCSE a valuable cert. It requires you to be up
    > to date.
    >
    > BTW, it's not called MCSE anymore. They've changed the name to MCITP +
    > whatever path you went down. For example MCITP Server Administrator is one.
    >

    The difference between NT and 2000 was significant. Subsequent changes
    have so far not been significant.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jun 4, 2009
    #16
  17. Ray Greene

    Jack Spratt Guest

    "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    news:4a2760bb$...
    > Bobs wrote:
    >> Enkidu wrote:
    >>> geoff wrote:
    >>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>>> In message <>, Ray Greene
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.
    >>>>> I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    >>>>> vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.
    >>>>
    >>>> Probably a Linux-enthusiast survey then.
    >>>>
    >>>> I always find real courses far more satisfactory than 'online'.
    >>>>
    >>>> With MCSE be prepared for an ongoing committment to cost of keeping it
    >>>> 'current'.
    >>>>
    >>> Tell me about it! I got a few NT courses, then couldn't get the time to
    >>> do the rest. Then 2000 came along and I did the first few, then couldn't
    >>> find the time to do the rest.

    >>
    >> Well, that is what makes MCSE a valuable cert. It requires you to be up
    >> to date.
    >>
    >> BTW, it's not called MCSE anymore. They've changed the name to MCITP +
    >> whatever path you went down. For example MCITP Server Administrator is
    >> one.
    >>

    > The difference between NT and 2000 was significant. Subsequent changes
    > have so far not been significant.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff


    I would say the changes between server 2003 to 2008 and XP to Vista have
    been massive
     
    Jack Spratt, Jun 4, 2009
    #17
  18. Ray Greene

    Enkidu Guest

    Jack Spratt wrote:
    > "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    > news:4a2760bb$...
    >> Bobs wrote:
    >>> Enkidu wrote:
    >>>> geoff wrote:
    >>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>>>> In message <>, Ray Greene
    >>>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE.
    >>>>>> I read a survey somewhere which showed an inverse correlation between
    >>>>>> vendor-centric qualifications and salaries.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Probably a Linux-enthusiast survey then.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I always find real courses far more satisfactory than 'online'.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> With MCSE be prepared for an ongoing committment to cost of keeping
    >>>>> it 'current'.
    >>>>>
    >>>> Tell me about it! I got a few NT courses, then couldn't get the time
    >>>> to do the rest. Then 2000 came along and I did the first few, then
    >>>> couldn't find the time to do the rest.
    >>>
    >>> Well, that is what makes MCSE a valuable cert. It requires you to be
    >>> up to date.
    >>>
    >>> BTW, it's not called MCSE anymore. They've changed the name to MCITP
    >>> + whatever path you went down. For example MCITP Server Administrator
    >>> is one.
    >>>

    >> The difference between NT and 2000 was significant. Subsequent changes
    >> have so far not been significant.

    >
    > I would say the changes between server 2003 to 2008 and XP to Vista have
    > been massive
    >

    Nothing that couldn't be picked up with a few hours on a conversion
    course. NT4 to 2000 was a whole change of paradigm, and introduced
    Active Directory into the workplace. I've not seen such a shift since.

    (Actually the change from NT3.5 to NT4 was *almost* a significant change
    - it represented a change from the Windows 3.1 paradigm to Windows 95/98
    paradigm).

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jun 4, 2009
    #18
  19. Ray Greene

    Jack Spratt Guest

    "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    news:4a27712c$...
    > Jack Spratt wrote:


    >>> The difference between NT and 2000 was significant. Subsequent changes
    >>> have so far not been significant.

    >>
    >> I would say the changes between server 2003 to 2008 and XP to Vista have
    >> been massive
    > >

    > Nothing that couldn't be picked up with a few hours on a conversion
    > course. NT4 to 2000 was a whole change of paradigm, and introduced Active
    > Directory into the workplace. I've not seen such a shift since.
    >
    > (Actually the change from NT3.5 to NT4 was *almost* a significant change -
    > it represented a change from the Windows 3.1 paradigm to Windows 95/98
    > paradigm).



    Active Directory. True, ok I'll give you that one.


    > Cheers,
    >
    > Cliff
    >
    > --
    >
    > The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change, the
    > same old personalities show through.
     
    Jack Spratt, Jun 4, 2009
    #19
  20. Ray Greene

    Ray Greene Guest

    On Thu, 04 Jun 2009 14:19:59 +1200, Enkidu <>
    wrote:

    >Ray Greene wrote:
    >> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 01:57:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Jun 3, 8:26 pm, Ray Greene <> wrote:
    >>>> We have a young 'un at work who wants to do MCSE. She's looking at
    >>>> training options and there are a number of online training providers
    >>>> around.
    >>>>
    >>>> Has anyone tried online training, and can you recommend a provider?
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> Ray Greene
    >>> A couple of the team at work are using the Seek e-learning portal
    >>> which they seem to quite like. If she's got a good basic knowledge,
    >>> then setting up a mini-lab using some VM's on a single machine or a
    >>> few physical PC's, switches/routers etc. and going through some of the
    >>> MCSE training guides could also do her just as good.
    >>>
    >>> Personally, I use the latter technique.

    >>
    >> Yeah, the mini-lab is a must-do. Where are the training guides
    >> available from?
    > >

    >Amazon? Any good bookseller.
    > >

    OK, thanks.

    -- Ray Greene
     
    Ray Greene, Jun 4, 2009
    #20
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