MCSE: Is it now a SCAM? +Suggestion to improve it

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by Mike, Nov 18, 2003.

  1. Mike

    Mike Guest

    Have the MCSE and other MS-Certs been religated to the SCAM pile? It seems
    like the value of a MCSE has dropped like a tech stock during the dot.BOMB
    era. The supply has increased so rapidly, while the demand has remained the
    same or decreased. It currently costs $875 for the exams alone, regardless
    of any study materials, courses etc. Who knows how much money MS actually
    makes off of these items (It's buried in their financials with CAL and
    Server software sales) but they do reference certification, training and
    microsoft press materials revenues increased over $100 million this past
    year. I've worked with so many MCSE's that just haven't got a clue it makes
    me sick. Why do they pass? Braindumps. Why have braindumps flourished? Well,
    for one, when studying for a MS-exam you are told a broad list of topics
    that are covered. Exam format? None of your business. Grading scheme? No
    sir. Definition of a passing grade? Forget it buddy. Add to that the almost
    contant development of new certifications, new requirements and expiring of
    current content and there's only one thing that can happen.

    Another reason paper MCSE's have flourished is because MS has done an
    EXTREMELY poor job of differentiating their certs to the world. I frequently
    see $10-15 help desk jobs that require a MCSE. No thanks, I'll keep
    collecting my unemployment. Does MS want to maintain the value of it's
    certs? It says it does. Has it made any effort? Yeah, it's gone after some
    of the braindumps, but perhaps they were just taking market share away from
    them. The MS-Press books are shoddy at best, and don't cover all the
    material.

    So, enough ranting, here's my suggestion. Look at Cisco's CCIE program. You
    cannot fake that because there's a real-world lab that you have to complete.
    I suggest that you combine 70-290,70-291 and create a lab that covers those
    materials. This would change MCSA to 3 tests and 1 lab. For MCSE combine
    70-293,70-294 and create a lab that covers those materials. For MCSE you now
    need 5 exams and 2 labs. Don't be a bunch of jackos and charge $1,000 for it
    though, offer the labs at cost. Then require all the existing MCSE's and
    MCSA's to take a lab to become MC-MCSE's as in, ok yeah, this person's a
    Microsoft Certified Microsoft Certified System Engineer. We really mean it
    this time.

    Just a thought...
     
    Mike, Nov 18, 2003
    #1
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  2. Re: Is it now a SCAM? +Suggestion to improve it

    What CERT's do you have?


    "Mike" <mike2033_hotmail_nospam> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Have the MCSE and other MS-Certs been religated to the SCAM pile? It seems
    > like the value of a MCSE has dropped like a tech stock during the dot.BOMB
    > era. The supply has increased so rapidly, while the demand has remained

    the
    > same or decreased. It currently costs $875 for the exams alone, regardless
    > of any study materials, courses etc. Who knows how much money MS actually
    > makes off of these items (It's buried in their financials with CAL and
    > Server software sales) but they do reference certification, training and
    > microsoft press materials revenues increased over $100 million this past
    > year. I've worked with so many MCSE's that just haven't got a clue it

    makes
    > me sick. Why do they pass? Braindumps. Why have braindumps flourished?

    Well,
    > for one, when studying for a MS-exam you are told a broad list of topics
    > that are covered. Exam format? None of your business. Grading scheme? No
    > sir. Definition of a passing grade? Forget it buddy. Add to that the

    almost
    > contant development of new certifications, new requirements and expiring

    of
    > current content and there's only one thing that can happen.
    >
    > Another reason paper MCSE's have flourished is because MS has done an
    > EXTREMELY poor job of differentiating their certs to the world. I

    frequently
    > see $10-15 help desk jobs that require a MCSE. No thanks, I'll keep
    > collecting my unemployment. Does MS want to maintain the value of it's
    > certs? It says it does. Has it made any effort? Yeah, it's gone after some
    > of the braindumps, but perhaps they were just taking market share away

    from
    > them. The MS-Press books are shoddy at best, and don't cover all the
    > material.
    >
    > So, enough ranting, here's my suggestion. Look at Cisco's CCIE program.

    You
    > cannot fake that because there's a real-world lab that you have to

    complete.
    > I suggest that you combine 70-290,70-291 and create a lab that covers

    those
    > materials. This would change MCSA to 3 tests and 1 lab. For MCSE combine
    > 70-293,70-294 and create a lab that covers those materials. For MCSE you

    now
    > need 5 exams and 2 labs. Don't be a bunch of jackos and charge $1,000 for

    it
    > though, offer the labs at cost. Then require all the existing MCSE's and
    > MCSA's to take a lab to become MC-MCSE's as in, ok yeah, this person's a
    > Microsoft Certified Microsoft Certified System Engineer. We really mean it
    > this time.
    >
    > Just a thought...
    >
    >
     
    Stephen O'Sullivan, Nov 18, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Mike

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >Why do they pass? Braindumps. Why have braindumps flourished? Well,

    To answer your question nuk'ing China would be a good starting point.
     
    Kline Sphere, Nov 18, 2003
    #3
  4. Mike

    isles1 Guest

    isles1, Nov 18, 2003
    #4
  5. Mike

    TN Guest

    Spoken like a true American.

    "Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >Why do they pass? Braindumps. Why have braindumps flourished? Well,

    >
    > To answer your question nuk'ing China would be a good starting point.
     
    TN, Nov 19, 2003
    #5
  6. Mike

    Consultant Guest

    even though he is not american

    "TN" <> wrote in message
    news:kjBub.552$...
    > Spoken like a true American.
    >
    > "Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > >Why do they pass? Braindumps. Why have braindumps flourished? Well,

    > >
    > > To answer your question nuk'ing China would be a good starting point.

    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Nov 19, 2003
    #6
  7. Mike

    Kline Sphere Guest

    >even though he is not american

    Who say's I'm not!
     
    Kline Sphere, Nov 19, 2003
    #7
  8. Mike

    Jtyc Guest

    > Who say's I'm not!

    Consultant.



    I'm not an American, I'm a Frisian-American.
     
    Jtyc, Nov 19, 2003
    #8
  9. Mike

    Jay Guest

    If you don't like it, don't get certified. Gain
    employment and hell, the interview on your merit alone.
    Maybe your verbal and narrative persuasions will help
    there?

    - Jay
     
    Jay, Nov 19, 2003
    #9
  10. Mike

    pmcg Guest

    Re: Is it now a SCAM? +Suggestion to improve it

    I think it is...

    "Mike" <mike2033_hotmail_nospam> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Have the MCSE and other MS-Certs been religated to the SCAM pile? It seems
    > like the value of a MCSE has dropped like a tech stock during the dot.BOMB
    > era. The supply has increased so rapidly, while the demand has remained

    the
    > same or decreased. It currently costs $875 for the exams alone, regardless
    > of any study materials, courses etc. Who knows how much money MS actually
    > makes off of these items (It's buried in their financials with CAL and
    > Server software sales) but they do reference certification, training and
    > microsoft press materials revenues increased over $100 million this past
    > year. I've worked with so many MCSE's that just haven't got a clue it

    makes
    > me sick. Why do they pass? Braindumps. Why have braindumps flourished?

    Well,
    > for one, when studying for a MS-exam you are told a broad list of topics
    > that are covered. Exam format? None of your business. Grading scheme? No
    > sir. Definition of a passing grade? Forget it buddy. Add to that the

    almost
    > contant development of new certifications, new requirements and expiring

    of
    > current content and there's only one thing that can happen.
    >
    > Another reason paper MCSE's have flourished is because MS has done an
    > EXTREMELY poor job of differentiating their certs to the world. I

    frequently
    > see $10-15 help desk jobs that require a MCSE. No thanks, I'll keep
    > collecting my unemployment. Does MS want to maintain the value of it's
    > certs? It says it does. Has it made any effort? Yeah, it's gone after some
    > of the braindumps, but perhaps they were just taking market share away

    from
    > them. The MS-Press books are shoddy at best, and don't cover all the
    > material.
    >
    > So, enough ranting, here's my suggestion. Look at Cisco's CCIE program.

    You
    > cannot fake that because there's a real-world lab that you have to

    complete.
    > I suggest that you combine 70-290,70-291 and create a lab that covers

    those
    > materials. This would change MCSA to 3 tests and 1 lab. For MCSE combine
    > 70-293,70-294 and create a lab that covers those materials. For MCSE you

    now
    > need 5 exams and 2 labs. Don't be a bunch of jackos and charge $1,000 for

    it
    > though, offer the labs at cost. Then require all the existing MCSE's and
    > MCSA's to take a lab to become MC-MCSE's as in, ok yeah, this person's a
    > Microsoft Certified Microsoft Certified System Engineer. We really mean it
    > this time.
    >
    > Just a thought...
    >
    >
     
    pmcg, Nov 20, 2003
    #10
  11. Mike

    ConcernedToo Guest

    ..
    ..
    ..
    your msce's are worthless folks.
    and it's all due to your jobs being outsourced to foreign lands
    ..
    ..
    ..
    see www.rescueamericanjobs.org AND if you care....
    ..
    write your elected officals here:
    ..
    www.congress.org
    ..
    to stop outsourcing.
    ..
    ..
    ..
     
    ConcernedToo, Dec 4, 2003
    #11
  12. Mike

    Consultant Guest

    viva la revolution!

    "ConcernedToo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > your msce's are worthless folks.
    > and it's all due to your jobs being outsourced to foreign lands
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > see www.rescueamericanjobs.org AND if you care....
    > .
    > write your elected officals here:
    > .
    > www.congress.org
    > .
    > to stop outsourcing.
    > .
    > .
    > .
     
    Consultant, Dec 4, 2003
    #12
  13. Anyone who fears competition needs to rethink there role in the universe.
    Change is the way of the world. I see a lot of negativism here and I think
    a group of intelligent people like us should be able to come out on top no
    matter what. (besides, your scaring me...)
     
    Main Identity, Dec 4, 2003
    #13
  14. Geez! My spell checker sure is stupid.

    "Main Identity" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Anyone who fears competition needs to rethink there role in the universe.
    > Change is the way of the world. I see a lot of negativism here and I

    think
    > a group of intelligent people like us should be able to come out on top no
    > matter what. (besides, your scaring me...)
    >
    >
     
    Main Identity, Dec 4, 2003
    #14
  15. Main Identity wrote:
    > "Main Identity" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Anyone who fears competition needs to rethink there role in the
    >> universe. Change is the way of the world. I see a lot of negativism
    >> here and I think a group of intelligent people like us should be
    >> able to come out on top no matter what. (besides, your scaring
    >> me...)


    > Geez! My spell checker sure is stupid.


    If you find a spell checker that can detect when you mean "there" and when
    you mean "their" and when you mean "your" and when you mean "you're" let me
    know. We'll make millions.

    --
    Fris "your you're is showing... there, their" beeĀ® MCNGP #13

    http://www.mcngp.tk
    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
    Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=, Dec 4, 2003
    #15
  16. Mike

    Consultant Guest

    is it the spell checker or input device?

    "Main Identity" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Geez! My spell checker sure is stupid.
    >
    > "Main Identity" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Anyone who fears competition needs to rethink there role in the

    universe.
    > > Change is the way of the world. I see a lot of negativism here and I

    > think
    > > a group of intelligent people like us should be able to come out on top

    no
    > > matter what. (besides, your scaring me...)
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Dec 4, 2003
    #16
  17. Mike

    Consultant Guest

    speaking for myself and a few others, we do not fear competition. it's just
    rather sickening to watch all these positions go to a thrid world country.


    "Main Identity" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Anyone who fears competition needs to rethink there role in the universe.
    > Change is the way of the world. I see a lot of negativism here and I

    think
    > a group of intelligent people like us should be able to come out on top no
    > matter what. (besides, your scaring me...)
    >
    >
     
    Consultant, Dec 4, 2003
    #17
  18. Hey! - I think I'm getting an idea!....wait...wait...
    ....no...nothing, sorry- just that sucking sound.
     
    Main Identity, Dec 4, 2003
    #18
  19. Mike

    david syme Guest

    (ConcernedToo) wrote in message news:<>...
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > your msce's are worthless folks.
    > and it's all due to your jobs being outsourced to foreign lands
    > .
    > .
    > .
    > see www.rescueamericanjobs.org AND if you care....
    > .
    > write your elected officals here:
    > .
    > www.congress.org
    > .
    > to stop outsourcing.
    > .
    > .
    >I am glad to see someone is doing something about it. It is

    happening all over the Western world.
    Cheerz from Scotland
     
    david syme, Dec 4, 2003
    #19
  20. david syme wrote:
    > (ConcernedToo) wrote in message
    > news:<>...
    > I am glad to see someone is doing something about it. It is
    > happening all over the Western world.
    > Cheerz from Scotland


    Do you know Billyw?

    Got any haggis you can send us?

    Billyw's dropped the ball again.

    --
    Fris "Is your accent cooler than Billyw's?" beeĀ® MCNGP #13

    http://www.mcngp.tk
    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
    Certaholics - We're here if you're beyond help
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Frisbee=AE_MCNGP?=, Dec 4, 2003
    #20
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