MCSD .Net recruiters and job networking

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Session Mwamufiya, May 30, 2004.

  1. Could someone direct me to usefull MCSD .Net recruiting
    sites, not just the ones where you post your CV and
    that's it. I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
    recruiters actively work with the job seekers. Thanks

    Session
    Session Mwamufiya, May 30, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. > I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
    >recruiters actively work with the job seekers.


    I believe you have the wrong idea of what a 'headhunter' is as
    referred to in the recruitment business.

    A 'headhunter' is enlisted by the client, not the 'job seeker', in an
    attempt to entice specific people (who are know to the client through
    name and reputation), to join that client. These 'specific people' are
    high flyers in their field, in which there are few (in any) other
    people who can preform the role in question with the same level of
    proven success. Given that you have posted a message in this ng, it is
    hard to imagine you such a person.

    As such, I believe you are referring to recruitment companies who
    charge (or rather rip off) 'job seekers' a fee to 'attempt' to find
    them a role. I have never seen the need why any company would entrust
    the selection of IT personnel to a third party, and I am dumfounded
    why any job seeker would pay (or rather, be ripped off) for someone
    else to attempt to find them a role.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 30, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Session Mwamufiya

    Ernesto Guest


    >-----Original Message-----
    >> I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
    >>recruiters actively work with the job seekers.

    >
    >I believe you have the wrong idea of what a 'headhunter'

    is as
    >referred to in the recruitment business.
    >
    >A 'headhunter' is enlisted by the client, not the 'job

    seeker', in an
    >attempt to entice specific people (who are know to the

    client through name and reputation),
    I agree with the fact about the differences
    between "headhunter" and "jobseekers", but i disagree
    with the fact that clients ask for specific persons,
    sometimes the client is looking for a high profile, but
    doesn't have many contacts to know the people that
    matches that profile, so they contract a headhunter in
    order to find that profile, in the hope that the
    headhunter have more resources (contacts) to find it.

    Another situation where a headhunter is required: finding
    people from another locations, in Spain 2 companies
    needed people from a lot of profiles, so they ask to a
    headhunter located in Peru to perform a evaluation of the
    candidates, i was in that process (in fact i have to move
    from Lima to Madrid) and i didn't pay anything to the
    headhunter for 2 reasons: he contacted me (i still have
    no idea how he found me) and the companie pays a sum for
    each pearson that was accepted, so the headhunter was
    motived to filter the best of the bread in order to get
    more people accepted.

    If you have to pay to a people to find you a job, he's
    not a headhunter, the real headhunter earns money from
    the companies not from the aspirants, perhaps you could
    find one and give him your CV and wait... who knows....?

    Ernesto
    Ernesto, May 31, 2004
    #3
  4. On Mon, 31 May 2004 03:35:08 -0700, "Ernesto"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>> I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
    >>>recruiters actively work with the job seekers.

    >>
    >>I believe you have the wrong idea of what a 'headhunter'

    >is as
    >>referred to in the recruitment business.
    >>
    >>A 'headhunter' is enlisted by the client, not the 'job

    >seeker', in an
    >>attempt to entice specific people (who are know to the

    >client through name and reputation),
    >I agree with the fact about the differences
    >between "headhunter" and "jobseekers", but i disagree
    >with the fact that clients ask for specific persons,
    >sometimes the client is looking for a high profile, but
    >doesn't have many contacts to know the people that
    >matches that profile, so they contract a headhunter in
    >order to find that profile, in the hope that the
    >headhunter have more resources (contacts) to find it.
    >
    >Another situation where a headhunter is required: finding
    >people from another locations, in Spain 2 companies
    >needed people from a lot of profiles, so they ask to a
    >headhunter located in Peru to perform a evaluation of the
    >candidates, i was in that process (in fact i have to move
    >from Lima to Madrid) and i didn't pay anything to the
    >headhunter for 2 reasons: he contacted me (i still have
    >no idea how he found me) and the companie pays a sum for
    >each pearson that was accepted, so the headhunter was
    >motived to filter the best of the bread in order to get
    >more people accepted.
    >
    >If you have to pay to a people to find you a job, he's
    >not a headhunter, the real headhunter earns money from
    >the companies not from the aspirants, perhaps you could
    >find one and give him your CV and wait... who knows....?
    >
    >Ernesto
    >



    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 31, 2004
    #4
  5. No, a headhunter is as I describe one.

    You have simply described a typical, so called 'recruitment
    consultant', who will find the client any number of 'anybodys' for
    which the client will [maybe] choose one or more for the role.

    Clients use those type of 'services' provided by 'recruitment
    consultants' because they are either too lazy, ignorant or simple
    don't know any different. In the vast majority of cases, those clients
    are wasting their money. I'm damn if I would entrust the selection of
    employees, whom I require to continue the success of my company, to
    some commissioned based 'salesman' who has no idea about my business.

    In contrast, headhunters are engaged by a client for a specific type
    of person, who more often than not, has been personally known
    beforehand. These people being headhunted have the ability to enhance
    the economic capabilities of the client company and a strategic level.
    If the client simply wanted a bunch of software engineers, that client
    would simply advertise in their trade press (or elsewhere).

    Location has nothing to do with the description of a 'headhunter'.
    Headhunters can be engaged to go after someone in the next office
    block (or even the same office block) or on the other side of the
    world. The same [lack of] geographical restrictions apply to
    'recruitment consultants', although I can't see a recruitment company
    based in Manhattan, being engaged to find a vb gunt for a company
    located in Manchester, England.


    On Mon, 31 May 2004 03:35:08 -0700, "Ernesto"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>> I'm looking for a headhunter style site where
    >>>recruiters actively work with the job seekers.

    >>
    >>I believe you have the wrong idea of what a 'headhunter'

    >is as
    >>referred to in the recruitment business.
    >>
    >>A 'headhunter' is enlisted by the client, not the 'job

    >seeker', in an
    >>attempt to entice specific people (who are know to the

    >client through name and reputation),
    >I agree with the fact about the differences
    >between "headhunter" and "jobseekers", but i disagree
    >with the fact that clients ask for specific persons,
    >sometimes the client is looking for a high profile, but
    >doesn't have many contacts to know the people that
    >matches that profile, so they contract a headhunter in
    >order to find that profile, in the hope that the
    >headhunter have more resources (contacts) to find it.
    >
    >Another situation where a headhunter is required: finding
    >people from another locations, in Spain 2 companies
    >needed people from a lot of profiles, so they ask to a
    >headhunter located in Peru to perform a evaluation of the
    >candidates, i was in that process (in fact i have to move
    >from Lima to Madrid) and i didn't pay anything to the
    >headhunter for 2 reasons: he contacted me (i still have
    >no idea how he found me) and the companie pays a sum for
    >each pearson that was accepted, so the headhunter was
    >motived to filter the best of the bread in order to get
    >more people accepted.
    >
    >If you have to pay to a people to find you a job, he's
    >not a headhunter, the real headhunter earns money from
    >the companies not from the aspirants, perhaps you could
    >find one and give him your CV and wait... who knows....?
    >
    >Ernesto
    >



    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 31, 2004
    #5
  6. Session Mwamufiya

    Ernesto Guest

    >-----Original Message-----
    >No, a headhunter is as I describe one.

    That is your definition....

    >Clients use those type of 'services' provided
    > by 'recruitment
    >consultants' because they are either too lazy, ignorant
    > or simple don't know any different.

    Perhaps i have to put in the context, in 2000 and 2001
    (before 11/9) Spain had a big demand from computer
    related professionals, name it: VB, SAP, J2EE, Oracle....
    altought without the big distorsion like USA had with
    the "dot-com mania", and the places were filled with
    Mathematics, Fisics, Telecos at first but in a moment
    they had to fill with Administrators, Chemistrys,
    Zootechnists and so on because the Universities in Spain
    haven't produced enough professionals (Informaticos) to
    fill the places, at this point these "another
    professionals" were enough to fill the low entry levels
    the problem with the medium and high level positions
    still remains then, so the companies started to look
    overseas, in the case of the 2 companies that i was
    talking first they tried with Colombia and after that
    with Peru, at that moment there was a need so they
    decided to solve it with qualified professionals from
    Peru, currently there is no need because the market is
    more equilibrated, but then that was the reality, and i
    don't think that both companies we're lazy or ignorants.

    > In the vast majority of cases, those clients
    >are wasting their money.

    I don't think so :D, it was a good invest as far as i
    know.

    >I'm damn if I would entrust the selection of
    >employees, whom I require to continue the success of my
    >company, to some commissioned based 'salesman' who has
    > no idea about my business.

    The process weren't authomatic, we had interviews and
    exams very strict.... also the CV has some to do, so my
    MCSD certification allows me to get into the group.

    >In contrast, headhunters are engaged by a client for a

    specific type
    >of person, who more often than not, has been personally

    known beforehand.
    That sounds better because a "person" is different from
    a "specific type of person", in this case that matches
    with my first description.

    >'recruitment consultants', although I can't see a

    recruitment company
    >based in Manhattan, being engaged to find a vb gunt for

    a company
    >located in Manchester, England.

    Currently perhaps not, like i said.... at that moment....

    Ernesto
    Ernesto, May 31, 2004
    #6
  7. and what does this have to do with a description of a 'headhunter'....

    On Mon, 31 May 2004 06:16:47 -0700, "Ernesto"
    <> wrote:

    >>-----Original Message-----
    >>No, a headhunter is as I describe one.

    >That is your definition....
    >
    >>Clients use those type of 'services' provided
    >> by 'recruitment
    >>consultants' because they are either too lazy, ignorant
    >> or simple don't know any different.

    >Perhaps i have to put in the context, in 2000 and 2001
    >(before 11/9) Spain had a big demand from computer
    >related professionals, name it: VB, SAP, J2EE, Oracle....
    >altought without the big distorsion like USA had with
    >the "dot-com mania", and the places were filled with
    >Mathematics, Fisics, Telecos at first but in a moment
    >they had to fill with Administrators, Chemistrys,
    >Zootechnists and so on because the Universities in Spain
    >haven't produced enough professionals (Informaticos) to
    >fill the places, at this point these "another
    >professionals" were enough to fill the low entry levels
    >the problem with the medium and high level positions
    >still remains then, so the companies started to look
    >overseas, in the case of the 2 companies that i was
    >talking first they tried with Colombia and after that
    >with Peru, at that moment there was a need so they
    >decided to solve it with qualified professionals from
    >Peru, currently there is no need because the market is
    >more equilibrated, but then that was the reality, and i
    >don't think that both companies we're lazy or ignorants.
    >
    >> In the vast majority of cases, those clients
    >>are wasting their money.

    >I don't think so :D, it was a good invest as far as i
    >know.
    >
    >>I'm damn if I would entrust the selection of
    >>employees, whom I require to continue the success of my
    >>company, to some commissioned based 'salesman' who has
    >> no idea about my business.

    >The process weren't authomatic, we had interviews and
    >exams very strict.... also the CV has some to do, so my
    >MCSD certification allows me to get into the group.
    >
    >>In contrast, headhunters are engaged by a client for a

    >specific type
    >>of person, who more often than not, has been personally

    >known beforehand.
    >That sounds better because a "person" is different from
    >a "specific type of person", in this case that matches
    >with my first description.
    >
    >>'recruitment consultants', although I can't see a

    >recruitment company
    >>based in Manhattan, being engaged to find a vb gunt for

    >a company
    >>located in Manchester, England.

    >Currently perhaps not, like i said.... at that moment....
    >
    >Ernesto



    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 31, 2004
    #7
  8. >>I'm damn if I would entrust the selection of
    >>employees, whom I require to continue the success of my
    >>company, to some commissioned based 'salesman' who has
    >> no idea about my business.


    >The process weren't authomatic, we had interviews and
    >exams very strict....


    so do we, but we don't need the help (or the expense incurred)
    'provided' using the 'services' of a third party.

    > also the CV has some to do, so my
    >MCSD certification allows me to get into the group.


    no, anyone can get into the group.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 31, 2004
    #8
  9. >>In contrast, headhunters are engaged by a client for a
    >>specific type
    >>of person, who more often than not, has been personally
    >>known beforehand.


    >That sounds better because a "person" is different from
    >a "specific type of person", in this case that matches
    >with my first description.


    As I said, headhunters are engaged to go after specific people, NOT to
    go on some CV harvest collection looking for cheapest Joe Grunt they
    can find (and thus take the biggest cut from the process).

    My choice of words (included above) is accurate, the person (or
    persons) the client has identified as a target, may be personally
    known to the client, however because of contractual clauses my NOT be
    approached by the client directly, hence the use of 'headhunters'.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 31, 2004
    #9
  10. On Mon, 31 May 2004 06:16:47 -0700, "Ernesto"
    <> wrote:

    >>'recruitment consultants', although I can't see a
    >>recruitment company
    >>based in Manhattan, being engaged to find a vb gunt for
    >>a company
    >>located in Manchester, England.


    >Currently perhaps not, like i said.... at that moment....


    Not Ever!!

    Why on this Earth would any company in Manhattan use 'recruitment
    consultants' based 3000 miles ago, to hire a VB grunt or any other
    human resource, which can be found in their hundred's within twenty
    mile radius!!!! No wonder so many companies go bust!!

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 31, 2004
    #10
  11. Session Mwamufiya

    Ernesto Guest

    Overseas


    >Why on this Earth would any company in Manhattan

    use 'recruitment
    >consultants' based 3000 miles ago, to hire a VB grunt or

    any other
    >human resource, which can be found in their hundred's

    within twenty
    >mile radius!!!! No wonder so many companies go bust!!


    I don't know USA, but in Spain you couldn't find at that
    moment some kind of high profiles so they looked into
    Sudamerica because its afinity, curiosly at that moment
    some UK based companies we're looking across Europe (not
    sudamerica because its laws) for high profiles, so some
    spanish friends of mine were working then in London. Like
    i said i don't know the reality of USA, perhaps there is
    easiest to find the people that you need across the
    country (a big country i have to said), but there was a
    reality in Europe were the companies had to look out of
    its borders for the people with the level that they
    needed.

    Its hard to believe, but this are facts that i know
    personally, i'm not liying....

    Best Regards
    Ernesto
    Ernesto, May 31, 2004
    #11
  12. Re: Overseas

    >I don't know USA, but in Spain you couldn't find at that
    >moment some kind of high profiles so they looked into
    >Sudamerica because its afinity, curiosly at that moment
    >some UK based companies we're looking across Europe (not
    >sudamerica because its laws) for high profiles, so some
    >spanish friends of mine were working then in London. Like
    >i said i don't know the reality of USA, perhaps there is
    >easiest to find the people that you need across the
    >country (a big country i have to said), but there was a
    >reality in Europe were the companies had to look out of
    >its borders for the people with the level that they
    >needed.


    I'm American, and am currently working out of our London & Reading
    offices in the UK, but I'm no high flier, just a grunt doing his job
    to the best of his abilities. I'm only in the UK to ensure that the
    required technical transitions take place, as per the standards
    required by the parent company.

    I know that the UK has a shortage of skilled IT professionals, but not
    to the extent of having to look overseas (albeit the English
    channel!!); I find that rather disturbing!

    >Its hard to believe, but this are facts that i know
    >personally, i'm not liying....


    Never said you were, just put across my view of what an 'headhunter'
    is, maybe it is different in Spain or other countries, but that's how
    I see it.

    Todo el la mejor

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, May 31, 2004
    #12
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