maybe not a good question, but possibly a thought provoking one!

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Jonathan Wilson, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. We've all seen the works of the guy (whos name escapes me, my bad!) of
    the cambels soup, and the grid of maralin monroe pics in different
    colours.....

    There was some recient work of his "found" basically the same theme
    but he'd used a pen to draw some squiggles arround the results.

    Would he have been noted as an artist in this modern age, especially
    with his posterisation work concidering that the exact same result can
    be had with just ">filter>posterize"

    Or was there something else... after all a couple of clicks within a
    graphics package can be done in the dark room... just sometimes takes
    a little longer!

    Cloneing, removing items, placing new items, bluring, dodging/burning
    (can you sharpen in a dark room?) increasing apparent DOF, all these
    can be done... so where does the art start, and the fiddler end?


    --
    Jonathan Wilson.
    www.somethingerotic.com
    Jonathan Wilson, Jun 4, 2004
    #1
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  2. Jonathan Wilson

    bagal Guest

    in matters of relativity over absolutes the answer lies with the questing
    questioner

    ah - grass hopper

    :)

    "Jonathan Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > We've all seen the works of the guy (whos name escapes me, my bad!) of
    > the cambels soup, and the grid of maralin monroe pics in different
    > colours.....
    >
    > There was some recient work of his "found" basically the same theme
    > but he'd used a pen to draw some squiggles arround the results.
    >
    > Would he have been noted as an artist in this modern age, especially
    > with his posterisation work concidering that the exact same result can
    > be had with just ">filter>posterize"
    >
    > Or was there something else... after all a couple of clicks within a
    > graphics package can be done in the dark room... just sometimes takes
    > a little longer!
    >
    > Cloneing, removing items, placing new items, bluring, dodging/burning
    > (can you sharpen in a dark room?) increasing apparent DOF, all these
    > can be done... so where does the art start, and the fiddler end?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jonathan Wilson.
    > www.somethingerotic.com
    bagal, Jun 4, 2004
    #2
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  3. Jonathan Wilson

    paleryder Guest

    "Jonathan Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > We've all seen the works of the guy (whos name escapes me, my bad!) of
    > the cambels soup, and the grid of maralin monroe pics in different
    > colours.....
    >
    > There was some recient work of his "found" basically the same theme
    > but he'd used a pen to draw some squiggles arround the results.
    >
    > Would he have been noted as an artist in this modern age, especially
    > with his posterisation work concidering that the exact same result can
    > be had with just ">filter>posterize"
    >
    > Or was there something else... after all a couple of clicks within a
    > graphics package can be done in the dark room... just sometimes takes
    > a little longer!
    >
    > Cloneing, removing items, placing new items, bluring, dodging/burning
    > (can you sharpen in a dark room?) increasing apparent DOF, all these
    > can be done... so where does the art start, and the fiddler end?


    You are referring to Andy Warhol. He was more a graphic artist than
    fine artist, even at the time. The point was the confluence of the ordinary
    and psychedelia. And he did it without the aid of a computer.

    Would his stuff be a hit today? Maybe. Some more than others.

    His stuff had more to do with how he looked at the world, and marketing,
    and his artistic response to the mass-media of the day.

    Some of the capability of the graphics software packages is due to a desire
    by graphic artists to get that "look".
    paleryder, Jun 4, 2004
    #3
  4. On Fri, 4 Jun 2004 00:53:53 +0100, "bagal" <>
    wrote:

    >in matters of relativity over absolutes the answer lies with the questing
    >questioner
    >
    >ah - grass hopper
    >
    >:)


    LOL, that gave me a good laugh :)

    But i can see a potential serious side... its all subjective to the
    perspective of the viewer ;-)

    --
    Jonathan Wilson.
    www.somethingerotic.com
    Jonathan Wilson, Jun 4, 2004
    #4
  5. On Thu, 3 Jun 2004 19:54:18 -0400, "paleryder" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Jonathan Wilson" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> We've all seen the works of the guy (whos name escapes me, my bad!) of
    >> the cambels soup, and the grid of maralin monroe pics in different
    >> colours.....
    >>
    >> There was some recient work of his "found" basically the same theme
    >> but he'd used a pen to draw some squiggles arround the results.
    >>
    >> Would he have been noted as an artist in this modern age, especially
    >> with his posterisation work concidering that the exact same result can
    >> be had with just ">filter>posterize"
    >>
    >> Or was there something else... after all a couple of clicks within a
    >> graphics package can be done in the dark room... just sometimes takes
    >> a little longer!
    >>
    >> Cloneing, removing items, placing new items, bluring, dodging/burning
    >> (can you sharpen in a dark room?) increasing apparent DOF, all these
    >> can be done... so where does the art start, and the fiddler end?

    >
    >You are referring to Andy Warhol. He was more a graphic artist than
    >fine artist, even at the time. The point was the confluence of the ordinary
    >and psychedelia. And he did it without the aid of a computer.


    Thats the guy, I had a total brain fart and couldnt remember his
    name... quite bad concidering his impact on a lot of things.

    >
    >Would his stuff be a hit today? Maybe. Some more than others.
    >
    >His stuff had more to do with how he looked at the world, and marketing,
    >and his artistic response to the mass-media of the day.


    So not what he did or how, but what he was trying to point out... yeah
    I can go with that :)

    >
    >Some of the capability of the graphics software packages is due to a desire
    >by graphic artists to get that "look".
    >


    I'd never thought of that in that way... I guess that once you become
    famous or renound then the method of the result is less important than
    the content but I think that it would be hard for a moden day
    [unknown] "artist" to use the same style or effects to have the same
    impact.

    I have to add that i'm not a great fan of modern art, especially a lot
    that the tate ends up awarding, lol. But I do find interesting the
    originality of the ideas... a bed, a sheep cut in half, a pile of poo,
    a sculpture out of blood (actully that one I like, non-original
    sculpture but original medium, if you discount water/ice)... not to my
    mind "art" but definatly original in concept or medium :)

    I guess its why I like photography, its the content that has to be
    worked (effects excluded) that the camera sees... angles, lighting,
    subjects; my long term goal is a shot or shots that makes people go
    "oh wow," or, "oh shit," especially with my continuing adventures into
    the BDSM, fetish and erotica... not everyones cup of tea, but....


    --
    Jonathan Wilson.
    www.somethingerotic.com
    Jonathan Wilson, Jun 4, 2004
    #5
  6. In article <>, Jonathan Wilson
    <> writes
    >We've all seen the works of the guy (whos name escapes me, my bad!) of
    >the cambels soup, and the grid of maralin monroe pics in different
    >colours.....


    Warhol.
    >
    >There was some recient work of his "found" basically the same theme
    >but he'd used a pen to draw some squiggles arround the results.
    >
    >Would he have been noted as an artist in this modern age, especially
    >with his posterisation work concidering that the exact same result can
    >be had with just ">filter>posterize"
    >
    >Or was there something else... after all a couple of clicks within a
    >graphics package can be done in the dark room... just sometimes takes
    >a little longer!
    >
    >Cloneing, removing items, placing new items, bluring, dodging/burning
    >(can you sharpen in a dark room?)


    Yes. The "unsharp mask" technique was developed in darkroom work. It is
    of course a technique for improving edge acutance, not resolution, but
    the result looks "sharper" unless you look too closely.

    > increasing apparent DOF,


    The technique of confocal microscopy is interesting in this connection.

    > all these
    >can be done... so where does the art start, and the fiddler end?
    >
    >


    --
    David Littlewood
    David Littlewood, Jun 4, 2004
    #6
  7. Jonathan Wilson

    Sabineellen Guest

    >I'd never thought of that in that way... I guess that once you become
    >famous or renound then the method of the result is less important than
    >the content


    I still wonder to what effect his Rock (music) aura had on the popularization
    of his art or artistic status.

    After all, he was a "cool" person who lived in musically "cool" times. He
    managed a band (velvet underground) and was no stranger to the rock scene. I
    wonder had he not been a person famous for being "cool" what would've been
    thought of his "art". Would he had still be so highly regarded had he just been
    the regular person who works in an art studio and goes home to his regular
    wife, and his artwork is judged on its merits alone?

    It even seemed in those days that if you slept with more than one rockstar you
    had a claim to fame.
    Sabineellen, Jun 4, 2004
    #7
  8. The artist's name is Andy Warhol, he was a cultural icon of the 1960's-70's.
    Art is in the eye of the beholder. I never felt all that inspired by his
    work, but that too is art. Do a Google search and you'll find all sorts of
    info on the man.

    http://images.google.com/images?q=Andy Warhol&num=20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi



    "Jonathan Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > We've all seen the works of the guy (whos name escapes me, my bad!) of
    > the cambels soup, and the grid of maralin monroe pics in different
    > colours.....
    >
    > There was some recient work of his "found" basically the same theme
    > but he'd used a pen to draw some squiggles arround the results.
    >
    > Would he have been noted as an artist in this modern age, especially
    > with his posterisation work concidering that the exact same result can
    > be had with just ">filter>posterize"
    >
    > Or was there something else... after all a couple of clicks within a
    > graphics package can be done in the dark room... just sometimes takes
    > a little longer!
    >
    > Cloneing, removing items, placing new items, bluring, dodging/burning
    > (can you sharpen in a dark room?) increasing apparent DOF, all these
    > can be done... so where does the art start, and the fiddler end?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jonathan Wilson.
    > www.somethingerotic.com
    Darrell Larose, Jun 4, 2004
    #8
  9. Jonathan Wilson

    bagal Guest

    "Jonathan Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > We've all seen the works of the guy (whos name escapes me, my bad!) of
    > the cambels soup, and the grid of maralin monroe pics in different
    > colours.....
    >
    > There was some recient work of his "found" basically the same theme
    > but he'd used a pen to draw some squiggles arround the results.
    >
    > Would he have been noted as an artist in this modern age, especially
    > with his posterisation work concidering that the exact same result can
    > be had with just ">filter>posterize"
    >
    > Or was there something else... after all a couple of clicks within a
    > graphics package can be done in the dark room... just sometimes takes
    > a little longer!
    >
    > Cloneing, removing items, placing new items, bluring, dodging/burning
    > (can you sharpen in a dark room?) increasing apparent DOF, all these
    > can be done... so where does the art start, and the fiddler end?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jonathan Wilson.
    > www.somethingerotic.com


    in matters of relativity over absolutes the answer lies with the questing
    questioner

    ah - grass hopper

    :)
    bagal, Jun 4, 2004
    #9
  10. Jonathan Wilson

    R. Makul Guest

    On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 02:17:06 GMT, "Darrell Larose" <>
    wrote:

    >The artist's name is Andy Warhol, he was a cultural icon of the 1960's-70's.
    >Art is in the eye of the beholder. I never felt all that inspired by his
    >work, but that too is art. Do a Google search and you'll find all sorts of
    >info on the man.
    >
    >http://images.google.com/images?q=Andy Warhol&num=20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi
    >

    =============
    His work was in part a social commentary on the times in which he
    lived. I think a lot of the digital enhancements to pictures that
    people try to achieve today is achieve a Warhol look and effect.

    The man led a strange and interesting personal life. I have heard
    that, later in life, his hair was a hair piece that attached to his
    scalp via "snaps" or some other such mechanical connection device that
    involved surgically embedding the scalp side mechanics into his skin.

    I believe he also suffered a serious gun shot wound from one of his
    underground movie actresses, "Ultra Violet".
    R. Makul, Jun 5, 2004
    #10
  11. Jonathan Wilson

    bagal Guest

    "Jonathan Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > We've all seen the works of the guy (whos name escapes me, my bad!) of
    > the cambels soup, and the grid of maralin monroe pics in different
    > colours.....
    >
    > There was some recient work of his "found" basically the same theme
    > but he'd used a pen to draw some squiggles arround the results.
    >
    > Would he have been noted as an artist in this modern age, especially
    > with his posterisation work concidering that the exact same result can
    > be had with just ">filter>posterize"
    >
    > Or was there something else... after all a couple of clicks within a
    > graphics package can be done in the dark room... just sometimes takes
    > a little longer!
    >
    > Cloneing, removing items, placing new items, bluring, dodging/burning
    > (can you sharpen in a dark room?) increasing apparent DOF, all these
    > can be done... so where does the art start, and the fiddler end?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Jonathan Wilson.
    > www.somethingerotic.com


    in matters of relativity over absolutes the answer lies with the questing
    questioner

    ah - grass hopper

    :)
    bagal, Jun 5, 2004
    #11
  12. Jonathan Wilson

    Dan S Guest

    Re: maybe not a good question, but possibly a thought provokingone!

    Andy was certainly shot to death but NOT by UV, but by a lowlife lezz.
    It's interesting: perhaps your modern image app contains the features it
    does BECAUSE Warhol went to the trouble back then of getting into
    hi-contrast silkscreen film. These materials were available to every graphic
    artist, but Andy, with his appropriated images and centrality to the NY
    art/music scene, made them universally accepted.
    So start looking for image manipulation that YOU think is new and great, and
    get moving!

    My interview with Andy
    Here is the story.

    We had an iffy school newspaper called the RISD Rag or some such. It was
    a monthly at best. Filled with short essays and letters, it gave a good
    idea what was on people's minds. I was a journalist in high school so I
    contributed stories now and then.
    When we heard that Warhol was curating a show at our museum, our
    feelings were mixed: that was a lot of money (30 grand?) that could have
    gone to scholarships, but it also brought some spotlight to the
    conservative though excellent museum I visited very often. The show was
    called "Raiding the Basement" I believe. All museums have a ton of
    materials not on view, and Andy would go through these and put a show
    together. We were not aware he was already an incurable flea-market
    shopper.

    Back then we were highly wrought over Vietnam and Textron's profiting
    from it, and had just been confronted with the news that Rhode Islanders
    basically didn't come to the college for financial reasons. We wanted to
    have a demonstration that would be noticed.
    We were not aware that the endowment that supported the School had to be
    split down the middle with the Museum. This made for a poor school and a
    rich museum. President Rantoul, generally disrespected already, didn't
    like informing us of school business issues, although he changed later.

    When Andy Warhol arrived to be interviewed by the news media at the
    museum, I just walked in, nodding to the guards I knew by name. A lady
    stopped me as I arrived at the Courtyard and asked what I was doing, who
    I was, etc. I said "press" and she asked for my credentials. I said,
    "the school newspaper, and we really have no credentials." She said the
    museum was happy to cooperate with the school, and in I went.
    Andy was sitting on a stool, unmoving, in a floodlight, accompanied by
    one of the most beautiful women I had ever seen, a slender cafe-au-lait
    model with glossy uncolored lips. Carol? perhaps. The lights lit Andy's
    eyes the most intense blue I had ever seen as well. This was before I
    had heard of colored contact lenses, and I would like to know if he had
    them then.
    The main interview was done by a local TV newsman in a rather hip
    brightly-colored shirt and tie. He asked questions of Andy, but Andy was
    silent. Carol answered as best she could. Another journalist, from the
    Pro Jo perhaps, was also there.
    The TV newsman was getting frustrated. The questions concerned modern
    art, pop art, the museum, Andy's Factory perhaps. The only question that
    Andy perked up and answered was about driving here from New York; he had
    enjoyed the scenery. Finally the hip-looking newsman asked, "It's all a
    big joke to you, isn't it, Andy?" Andy looked concerned. Carol said,
    "Oh, no, it's not a joke."
    The floodlights went out. The other journalist asked, "So what did you
    think of the Merritt Parkway?" [Connecticut alternative to I-95].
    I approached Andy and identified myself. He was completely attentive as
    we walked out together. I asked about the money he was being paid. He
    said it was being donated by wealthy Rhode Islanders; the money had
    never been in the general fund. "We'll be having a demonstration
    tonight, at the opening, to support the Send a Rhody to RISD campaign,
    and it's too late to call it off," I told him.
    "I love demonstrations!!" gently cried Andy. Everything he had said and
    done was very gentle and minimal. I asked him to confirm some snackbar
    mythology, that he had attended RISD for a while, and drawn only shoes.
    He demurred, "I never went here."
    That was about it. We shook hands, which was like grasping a weak
    butterfly, Carol was back at his side, and I was walking out alone.
    Friends of mine standing at the door, far hipper folks than I,
    congratulated me.
    The demonstration that evening was a happy, boisterous conga-line with
    chanting and signs through the gallery, which was dimly-lit to resemble
    the basement. I recall dozens of very old shoes and stacks of plates and
    second-rate paintings.
    The next year we had a few Rhodies on special scholarship at school. But
    the saga of Fred Very will have to wait for another day.


    Hope you can use this. I tried to give enough background to put things
    in context. Please do not delete reference to Textron, that was
    important then. I personally had little knowledge of or regard for
    Andy's pop art, the silkscreens, the long dull movies, at the time.

    Dan Spector
    BFA-ID 1973

    ----------
    >From: "Andrew Martinez" <>
    >To: <>
    >Subject: Re: Andy in 1972
    >Date: Tue, Oct 1, 2002, 2:22 PM
    >


    > Dear Dan Spector,
    >
    > This sounds exciting! I am very much interested in your Andy Warhol
    > interview. Is this something that you taped? Is it transcribed? In
    > what capacity were you interviewing Warhol? I would also appreciate
    > hearing your thoughts on how the interview went and your impressions of
    > Warhol, his entourage, and the show. There is a good chance that we can
    > add this material to the 125th section of RISD's website.
    >
    > I look forward to your reply.
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > Andrew Martinez
    > Archivist
    > Rhode Island School of Design
    > 2 College Street
    > Providence, RI 02903
    > (401) 454-6398
    >
    >


    ----------
    In article <>, R. Makul
    <> wrote:


    >
    >
    > On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 02:17:06 GMT, "Darrell Larose" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>The artist's name is Andy Warhol, he was a cultural icon of the 1960's-70's.
    >>Art is in the eye of the beholder. I never felt all that inspired by his
    >>work, but that too is art. Do a Google search and you'll find all sorts of
    >>info on the man.
    >>
    >>http://images.google.com/images?q=Andy Warhol&num=20&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe

    =off&s
    > a=N&tab=wi
    >>

    > =============
    > His work was in part a social commentary on the times in which he
    > lived. I think a lot of the digital enhancements to pictures that
    > people try to achieve today is achieve a Warhol look and effect.
    >
    > The man led a strange and interesting personal life. I have heard
    > that, later in life, his hair was a hair piece that attached to his
    > scalp via "snaps" or some other such mechanical connection device that
    > involved surgically embedding the scalp side mechanics into his skin.
    >
    > I believe he also suffered a serious gun shot wound from one of his
    > underground movie actresses, "Ultra Violet".
    >
    Dan S, Jun 5, 2004
    #12
  13. "Jonathan Wilson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    SNIP
    > But i can see a potential serious side... its all subjective to the
    > perspective of the viewer ;-)


    Indeed, but even if Andy Warhol pissed on some of his paintings, after
    digesting vitamin B pills because they added a distinct yelow color, he
    added a different look to his images... A true artist.

    All the rest in in the eye of the beholder (and if many agree, it becomes
    art).

    Bart
    Bart van der Wolf, Jun 10, 2004
    #13
  14. "Bart van der Wolf" <> wrote in message
    news:40c7b0c2$0$49150$4all.nl...
    >
    > "Jonathan Wilson" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > SNIP
    > > But i can see a potential serious side... its all subjective to the
    > > perspective of the viewer ;-)

    >
    > Indeed, but even if Andy Warhol pissed on some of his paintings, after
    > digesting vitamin B pills because they added a distinct yelow color, he
    > added a different look to his images... A true artist.
    >
    > All the rest in in the eye of the beholder (and if many agree, it becomes
    > art).
    >
    > Bart
    >

    ---------------

    Do 'ya think it might work in the final fixer? Do 'ya? Huh?

    The "art" of photography. LOL

    Jorunalist
    Journalist-North, Jun 10, 2004
    #14
    1. Advertising

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