Maxxum 7D manual exerpts - A/S

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Alan Browne, Oct 16, 2004.

  1. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    This is cool:

    "The Anti-Shake scale indicates the degree of
    stabilization. The more LEDs displayed, the more
    unstable the image. Confirm the image has stabilized
    with the scale and press the shutter-release button all
    the way down to take the picture."

    This is not:

    "Anti-shake cannot be used with some lenses, see page
    117. Turn Anti-Shake off when the camera is mounted on
    a tripod. The metered exposure may change when
    turning this function on and off."

    BUT, the limitation is not bad at all (p.117) reads:

    "LENS COMPATIBILITY
    All Konica Minolta AF lenses are compatible with this camera. MD and MC series
    lenses cannot be used. For our current line of lenses, contact your Konica
    Minolta dealer. The AF Macro Zoom 3X - 1X f/1.7-2.8 cannot be used with
    Anti-Shake (p. 32); turn Anti-Shake off. If a lens is equipped with a macro
    release, the release cannot be used with Anti-Shake. Focus range limiters set to
    a range that does not include infinity cannot be used. The focus range limiter
    on the SSM-series or D-series macro lenses can be used at any set range.
    Anti-Shake may not work with products made by another manufacturer."

    Cheers,
    Alan.


    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Oct 16, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Alan Browne

    Mr Jessop Guest

    "Alan Browne" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > This is cool:
    >
    > "The Anti-Shake scale indicates the degree of
    > stabilization. The more LEDs displayed, the more
    > unstable the image. Confirm the image has stabilized
    > with the scale and press the shutter-release button all
    > the way down to take the picture."


    very cool an anti shake meter.

    > This is not:
    >
    > "Anti-shake cannot be used with some lenses, see page
    > 117.



    Turn Anti-Shake off when the camera is mounted on
    > a tripod.



    Thats the same with canon and nikon versions too. They over compensate if
    there is no shake at all. Not that you need anti shake with a tripod as
    that is what the damn things for.

    The metered exposure may change when
    > turning this function on and off."


    I do hope it literally means "whilst turning on an off" and not "you will
    get 1 meter reading when switched on and other if switched off"


    >
    > BUT, the limitation is not bad at all (p.117) reads:
    >
    > "LENS COMPATIBILITY
    > All Konica Minolta AF lenses are compatible with this camera.


    I suspect that means minolta af lenses, as far as i know they haven't made
    more than a couple under the konica minolta brand.

    MD and MC series
    > lenses cannot be used.


    Well autofocus might be difficult to operate without an AF lense. With
    canons EF won't fit on FD and FD won't fit on EF. No mechanical moving
    parts involved in moving the lens diaphragm.


    For our current line of lenses, contact your Konica
    > Minolta dealer. The AF Macro Zoom 3X - 1X f/1.7-2.8 cannot be used with
    > Anti-Shake (p. 32); turn Anti-Shake off. If a lens is equipped with a
    > macro release, the release cannot be used with Anti-Shake. Focus range
    > limiters set to a range that does not include infinity cannot be used. The
    > focus range limiter


    Have no idea coupling or compatibility wise why this would be. However
    handheld macro would be asking alot of any anti shake system so its back to
    tripod. Tripod use has been covered earlier. I beleive the incompatibility
    is deliberate rather than a shortcoming of the design.

    > on the SSM-series or D-series macro lenses can be used at any set range.


    Don't know about this part to comment but it does bring my theory into
    question.

    > Anti-Shake may not work with products made by another manufacturer."


    Standard get out clause and marketing "only buy our stuff" claptrap.
     
    Mr Jessop, Oct 16, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "Mr Jessop" <> wrote in news:WKgcd.9864$xb.6261
    @text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:

    >> Anti-Shake may not work with products made by another manufacturer."

    >
    > Standard get out clause and marketing "only buy our stuff" claptrap.


    I am not sure about that.

    The anti shake mechanism have to have a very accurate information
    about the lens parameters to work. The camera probably have information
    about Minolta lenses only.


    /Roland
     
    Roland Karlsson, Oct 16, 2004
    #3
  4. Alan Browne

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >> Turn Anti-Shake off when the camera is mounted on
    >> a tripod.


    >From: "Mr Jessop"
    >
    > Thats the same with canon and nikon versions too. They over compensate
    > if there is no shake at all.


    This was only true for the first four Canon IS lenses, after that they included
    a sensor to detect if the motion was so small that IS wasn't required and it
    shut off automatically. The last 8 or so Canon IS lenses all have this
    feature. I think all the Nikon VR lenses have it too (not sure).

    >Not that you need anti shake with a tripod as
    >that is what the damn things for.


    Put a 2x converter on a 600 f/4 and you'll be darn glad you have IS no matter
    what size tripod you're using :)
     
    Bill Hilton, Oct 16, 2004
    #4
  5. Alan Browne

    Mr Jessop Guest

    "Roland Karlsson" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9585E25AF5Eklotjohan@130.133.1.4...
    > "Mr Jessop" <> wrote in news:WKgcd.9864$xb.6261
    > @text.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
    >
    >>> Anti-Shake may not work with products made by another manufacturer."

    >>
    >> Standard get out clause and marketing "only buy our stuff" claptrap.

    >
    > I am not sure about that.
    >
    > The anti shake mechanism have to have a very accurate information
    > about the lens parameters to work. The camera probably have information
    > about Minolta lenses only.


    The idea is to compensate for detected motion. It will either use an
    optical sensor, to measure it or some sort of gyroscope. The focal length
    and aperture and perhaps the focusing distance set will be the main factors
    the onboard computer may take into account. So if that information isn't
    getting though properly then alot of other features won't work, such as
    automatic zoom head on flash guns, metering system and autofocus. People
    always ask me if i have genuine nikon/canon/whatever memory cards cos thats
    what it says in the book. same with batteries and other smaller
    accessories. The gear will either work or it won't. Very unusual but
    possible for intermittent faults to occur but basically they will turn round
    and say "bollocks" we never said it WOULD work with your sigma lens. Don't
    think for one moment that its an excuse for your hardware to explode or
    otherwise continue to behave oddly after you have replaced the dodgy
    accessory with a genuine minolta part.
     
    Mr Jessop, Oct 16, 2004
    #5
  6. Alan Browne

    Tom Guest

    "Mr Jessop" <> wrote in message news:<WKgcd.9864$>...
    > "Alan Browne" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > >
    > > This is cool:
    > >

    >
    > For our current line of lenses, contact your Konica
    > > Minolta dealer. The AF Macro Zoom 3X - 1X f/1.7-2.8 cannot be used with
    > > Anti-Shake (p. 32); turn Anti-Shake off. If a lens is equipped with a
    > > macro release, the release cannot be used with Anti-Shake. Focus range
    > > limiters set to a range that does not include infinity cannot be used. The
    > > focus range limiter

    >
    > Have no idea coupling or compatibility wise why this would be. However
    > handheld macro would be asking alot of any anti shake system so its back to
    > tripod. Tripod use has been covered earlier. I beleive the incompatibility
    > is deliberate rather than a shortcoming of the design.


    Some early Minolta AF lenses (I think first generation) had macro
    switches to allow close focusing (about 1:4 magnification). When
    switched to macro, AF is turned off. The true macro lens (100 f/2.8)
    does not have that switch. Later zoom lenses also don't have that
    switch and Af stays active down to the close focusing distance.
    >
    > > on the SSM-series or D-series macro lenses can be used at any set range.

    >
    > Don't know about this part to comment but it does bring my theory into
    > question.
    >
    > > Anti-Shake may not work with products made by another manufacturer."

    >
    > Standard get out clause and marketing "only buy our stuff" claptrap.
     
    Tom, Oct 17, 2004
    #6
  7. Alan Browne

    Magnus W Guest

    "Mr Jessop" <> wrote in
    news:w7hcd.9879$:

    > The idea is to compensate for detected motion. It will either use an
    > optical sensor, to measure it or some sort of gyroscope. The focal
    > length and aperture and perhaps the focusing distance set will be the
    > main factors the onboard computer may take into account.


    It uses micro gyros.

    The system needs exact info on focal length and focus distance to be able
    to compensate correctly. This means /true/ focal length, not the values
    printed on the lens. The camera checks the focusing range all the way to
    infinity at startup (that is also in the manual) to build a focus distance
    table used with the internal D encoder so D lenses aren't needed -- this
    check is why focus limiters and macro switches can't be used, by the way.

    To get this info right, the camera must have a database of parameters of
    all pre-D lenses inside it. It is extremely unlikely that this database
    will contain non-Minolta items.
     
    Magnus W, Oct 17, 2004
    #7
  8. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Mr Jessop wrote:

    >
    >>BUT, the limitation is not bad at all (p.117) reads:
    >>
    >>"LENS COMPATIBILITY
    >>All Konica Minolta AF lenses are compatible with this camera.

    >
    >
    > I suspect that means minolta af lenses, as far as i know they haven't made
    > more than a couple under the konica minolta brand.


    Of course, just means that the MC/MD's won't work at all. Also really means
    that (most of) those Tamron, Sigma, Tokina et al lenses that work on Minolta AF
    should continue to work here.

    >>Minolta dealer. The AF Macro Zoom 3X - 1X f/1.7-2.8 cannot be used with
    >>Anti-Shake (p. 32); turn Anti-Shake off. If a lens is equipped with a
    >>macro release, the release cannot be used with Anti-Shake. Focus range
    >>limiters set to a range that does not include infinity cannot be used. The
    >>focus range limiter

    >
    >
    > Have no idea coupling or compatibility wise why this would be. However
    > handheld macro would be asking alot of any anti shake system so its back to
    > tripod. Tripod use has been covered earlier. I beleive the incompatibility
    > is deliberate rather than a shortcoming of the design.


    The lens in question is an oddity (a very high performance oddity) and is mostly
    used very close to subjects. Using it without A/S would be normal.


    >>Anti-Shake may not work with products made by another manufacturer."

    >
    >
    > Standard get out clause and marketing "only buy our stuff" claptrap.


    Yep.

    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Oct 17, 2004
    #8
  9. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Magnus W wrote:

    > It uses micro gyros.
    >
    > The system needs exact info on focal length and focus distance to be able
    > to compensate correctly. This means /true/ focal length, not the values
    > printed on the lens. The camera checks the focusing range all the way to
    > infinity at startup (that is also in the manual) to build a focus distance
    > table used with the internal D encoder so D lenses aren't needed -- this
    > check is why focus limiters and macro switches can't be used, by the way.
    >
    > To get this info right, the camera must have a database of parameters of
    > all pre-D lenses inside it. It is extremely unlikely that this database
    > will contain non-Minolta items.


    Source Magnus? I'm not sure at all how pre-D lenses would transmit their FL and
    zoom pos to the camera, never mind their "ID", yet the A/S will work with almost
    all pre-D lenses.

    The note on page 19 is bizarre:

    "Each time the camera is turned on, it automatically
    focuses the lens to the infinity position, even in manual
    focus. This operation is necessary to ensure proper
    exposures."

    This bothers me as I'm almost always in manual focus... will it override that
    and do this function regardless? (rhetorical).

    Exposure Comp: see page 48. Nice having a bargraph showing both exp-comp and
    flash comp on a single graph.

    For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200 sensitivity. (p51)

    Another nit: no viewfinder shutter to block back light getting in. I meter
    manually most of the time, so no big bother but another cost saver by K-M.

    p76 (p11 of 2nd pdf file) is ambiguous as to the power level setting. Does that
    refer to the built in flash only? The 5600HS is manually controllable to 1/32
    (not 1/16).

    The "Smooth focus" described on 116 (51 of pdf 2) is, er, novel. Strange too.

    Ah! They finally say "PC cord" on p 119! (Sheesh!)

    Seems to be the bain of digital cameras:
    Operating temperature: 0° - 40°C (32° - 104°F)

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Oct 17, 2004
    #9
  10. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Tom wrote:

    > "Mr Jessop" <> wrote in message news:<WKgcd.9864$>...
    >
    >>"Alan Browne" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>
    >>>
    >>>This is cool:
    >>>

    >>
    >>For our current line of lenses, contact your Konica
    >>
    >>>Minolta dealer. The AF Macro Zoom 3X - 1X f/1.7-2.8 cannot be used with
    >>>Anti-Shake (p. 32); turn Anti-Shake off. If a lens is equipped with a
    >>>macro release, the release cannot be used with Anti-Shake. Focus range
    >>>limiters set to a range that does not include infinity cannot be used. The
    >>>focus range limiter

    >>
    >>Have no idea coupling or compatibility wise why this would be. However
    >>handheld macro would be asking alot of any anti shake system so its back to
    >>tripod. Tripod use has been covered earlier. I beleive the incompatibility
    >>is deliberate rather than a shortcoming of the design.

    >
    >
    > Some early Minolta AF lenses (I think first generation) had macro
    > switches to allow close focusing (about 1:4 magnification). When
    > switched to macro, AF is turned off. The true macro lens (100 f/2.8)
    > does not have that switch. Later zoom lenses also don't have that
    > switch and Af stays active down to the close focusing distance.


    The 100 f/2.8 macro does have a focus range limiter and this is probably an
    issue wrt the above exerpt.


    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Oct 17, 2004
    #10
  11. Alan Browne

    Mr Jessop Guest


    > For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200 sensitivity.
    > (p51)



    This is the same on the d70 and 10d and possibly 20d too. within the
    100-1600 grain (noise) is acceptable. To get 3200 you have to boost the
    gain and noise is far more noticeable. Its basically liking having a red
    line on you tachometer. Yes the car will rev that far but we rather you
    didn't and won't accept any liability if you do.

    as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Mr Jessop, Oct 17, 2004
    #11
  12. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Mr Jessop wrote:

    >>For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200 sensitivity.
    >>(p51)

    >
    >
    >
    > This is the same on the d70 and 10d and possibly 20d too. within the
    > 100-1600 grain (noise) is acceptable. To get 3200 you have to boost the
    > gain and noise is far more noticeable. Its basically liking having a red
    > line on you tachometer. Yes the car will rev that far but we rather you
    > didn't and won't accept any liability if you do.


    It is, IMO, silly to have to access it via special settings. It is what it is
    and it is no different than plopping in a roll of 3200 film.

    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Oct 17, 2004
    #12
  13. Alan Browne

    S Lee Guest

    Alan Browne choreographed a chorus line of high-kicking electrons to
    spell out:

    > Mr Jessop wrote:
    >
    >>>For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200
    >>>sensitivity. (p51)

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> This is the same on the d70 and 10d and possibly 20d too. within the
    >> 100-1600 grain (noise) is acceptable. To get 3200 you have to boost
    >> the gain and noise is far more noticeable. Its basically liking
    >> having a red line on you tachometer. Yes the car will rev that far
    >> but we rather you didn't and won't accept any liability if you do.

    >
    > It is, IMO, silly to have to access it via special settings. It is
    > what it is and it is no different than plopping in a roll of 3200
    > film.


    It's usually rationalized that Nikon/Canon don't want newbies
    complaining to them about the noise if their cameras get set to ISO 3200
    and they forget about it...

    --
    ______________A L L D O N E ! B Y E B Y E !_________________
    | __ "The Internet is where lunatics are
    | (__ * _ _ _ _ internetworked worldwide at the speed of light.
    | __)|| | |(_)| \ *This* is progress?" --J. Shinal
     
    S Lee, Oct 18, 2004
    #13
  14. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    S Lee wrote:

    > Alan Browne choreographed a chorus line of high-kicking electrons to


    >>It is, IMO, silly to have to access it via special settings. It is
    >>what it is and it is no different than plopping in a roll of 3200
    >>film.

    >
    >
    > It's usually rationalized that Nikon/Canon don't want newbies
    > complaining to them about the noise if their cameras get set to ISO 3200
    > and they forget about it...


    Like I said: "silly" ... so I understand Nikon doing it, but Canon and Minolta?
    Jeez, they're losing it.

    Anyway, no real big deal. Just set it once and be done with it.

    Cheers,
    Alan



    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Oct 18, 2004
    #14
  15. Alan Browne

    Tom Guest

    Alan Browne <> wrote in message news:<Qdwcd.3244$>...
    > Tom wrote:
    >
    > > "Mr Jessop" <> wrote in message news:<WKgcd.9864$>...
    > >
    > >>"Alan Browne" <> wrote in message
    > >>news:...
    > >>
    > >>>
    > >>>This is cool:
    > >>>
    > >>
    > >>For our current line of lenses, contact your Konica
    > >>
    > >>>Minolta dealer. The AF Macro Zoom 3X - 1X f/1.7-2.8 cannot be used with
    > >>>Anti-Shake (p. 32); turn Anti-Shake off. If a lens is equipped with a
    > >>>macro release, the release cannot be used with Anti-Shake. Focus range
    > >>>limiters set to a range that does not include infinity cannot be used. The
    > >>>focus range limiter
    > >>
    > >>Have no idea coupling or compatibility wise why this would be. However
    > >>handheld macro would be asking alot of any anti shake system so its back to
    > >>tripod. Tripod use has been covered earlier. I beleive the incompatibility
    > >>is deliberate rather than a shortcoming of the design.

    > >
    > >
    > > Some early Minolta AF lenses (I think first generation) had macro
    > > switches to allow close focusing (about 1:4 magnification). When
    > > switched to macro, AF is turned off. The true macro lens (100 f/2.8)
    > > does not have that switch. Later zoom lenses also don't have that
    > > switch and Af stays active down to the close focusing distance.

    >
    > The 100 f/2.8 macro does have a focus range limiter and this is probably an
    > issue wrt the above exerpt.


    Alan,
    I agree with you. I use mine mostly with the range limiter in 'full'
    position. I haven't had problems with it hunting. Although I usually
    use manual focus for macro, I've also been successful when handholding
    to set my film 7 to continuous AF. I found that in continuous the 7
    can keep up with my rocking back and forth. Also with the film 7,
    I'll use the AF/MF button on the back if the AF does start to hunt.
    Then I press the button; the camera switches to MF; and I'll manually
    focus. Once I'm in focus, I release the button; the camera switches
    back to AF and tracks if I rock.

    Tom
     
    Tom, Oct 18, 2004
    #15
  16. Alan Browne

    Tom Guest

    Alan Browne <> wrote in message news:<W8wcd.34392$>...
    > Magnus W wrote:
    >
    > > It uses micro gyros.
    > >
    > > The system needs exact info on focal length and focus distance to be able
    > > to compensate correctly. This means /true/ focal length, not the values
    > > printed on the lens. The camera checks the focusing range all the way to
    > > infinity at startup (that is also in the manual) to build a focus distance
    > > table used with the internal D encoder so D lenses aren't needed -- this
    > > check is why focus limiters and macro switches can't be used, by the way.
    > >
    > > To get this info right, the camera must have a database of parameters of
    > > all pre-D lenses inside it. It is extremely unlikely that this database
    > > will contain non-Minolta items.

    >
    > Source Magnus? I'm not sure at all how pre-D lenses would transmit their FL and
    > zoom pos to the camera, never mind their "ID", yet the A/S will work with almost
    > all pre-D lenses.


    All my AF lenses transmit their actual focal length to the camera.
    The exposure data recording does show this. In the Magic Lantern book
    "Classic Minolta Cameras", the sections on the i series cameras does
    state that Minolta zooms have data on up to 12 zoom positions that are
    transmitted to the camera for use in "P" setting of desired shutter
    speed. I assume the software in the 7D will deal with the effect, if
    any, of the 1.5 crop factor. There was also some info on one of the
    KM sites that stated that FL and magnification were taken into account
    for AS.

    The focusing distance info for non-D lenses (at least to the exent
    necessary for the scene recognition expert programming (see the
    Portrait Card instructions in the files section of the Yahoo Minolta
    group for typical mags it uses) comes from a distance encoder in the
    body (Maxxum 7 brochure, and various Hove books on the si and xi
    cameras). The dance that the lens does when mounted with AF mode on,
    or when the camera is turned on (again if AF mode is on) probably has
    some calibration purpose. The comment in the manual that you quote
    below seems to confirm this.

    I think I disagree with Magus on where the database of lens parameters
    is stored. He says the camera, but I think it is in each lens.
    Reason? - Because my 24-105 lens was designed after my 700si or my
    XTsi were made. But that lens works correctly with both of those
    cameras to do the "P" mode scene recognition and subject program
    exposure settings. However, my Tokina and Sigma lenses don't with any
    of my 14-seg metering cameras. (This has to do with setting the
    desired aperture and DOF for the type of shot, not for getting a
    corect exposure). So the data needed for the camera to know the
    focusing position of my 24-105 (or any other newly designed lens)
    probably has to be in the lens chip. I think that there is camera
    specific calibration data that customizes each lens for each model
    camera (for example, changing camera motor/AF drive ratios).

    >
    > The note on page 19 is bizarre:
    >
    > "Each time the camera is turned on, it automatically
    > focuses the lens to the infinity position, even in manual
    > focus. This operation is necessary to ensure proper
    > exposures."
    >
    > This bothers me as I'm almost always in manual focus... will it override that
    > and do this function regardless? (rhetorical).


    Cameras that use 14-seg metering want to know focusing distance. This
    calibration lets the camera distance encoder work (through the AF
    drive, which in the 7 and 7D remains connected to the lens even in
    manual focus).

    >
    > Exposure Comp: see page 48. Nice having a bargraph showing both exp-comp and
    > flash comp on a single graph.
    >
    > For some reason a custom setting is required to get ISO 3200 sensitivity. (p51)
    >
    > Another nit: no viewfinder shutter to block back light getting in. I meter
    > manually most of the time, so no big bother but another cost saver by K-M.
    >
    > p76 (p11 of 2nd pdf file) is ambiguous as to the power level setting. Does that
    > refer to the built in flash only? The 5600HS is manually controllable to 1/32
    > (not 1/16).
    >
    > The "Smooth focus" described on 116 (51 of pdf 2) is, er, novel. Strange >too.


    "Smooth focus" was first implemented on the film 7. As noted above,
    the drive coupler (screwdriver) remains connected to the lens when in
    manual focus. This does add some resistance to the manual focusing
    ring. For some undamped lenses, this is nice. But when a TC is
    added, the gear ratio of the TC added to the gear ratio of some lenses
    cam make the manual focusing ring very stiff. It is almost impossible
    to turn the focusing ring on my Sigma 135-400 with a tamron 1.4xTC
    when in manual focus. Smooth focusing disconnects the drive coupler
    removing the extra resistance, but it also affects the ability of the
    14-seg meter.


    >
    > Ah! They finally say "PC cord" on p 119! (Sheesh!)
    >
    > Seems to be the bain of digital cameras:
    > Operating temperature: 0° - 40°C (32° - 104°F)
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Alan
     
    Tom, Oct 18, 2004
    #16
  17. Alan Browne

    Jer Guest

    Alan Browne wrote:


    > Seems to be the bain of digital cameras:
    > Operating temperature: 0° - 40°C (32° - 104°F)
    >


    Could be the bain of some shutterbugs, too. :)


    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
     
    Jer, Oct 18, 2004
    #17
  18. Alan Browne

    Magnus W Guest

    Alan Browne <> wrote in
    news:W8wcd.34392$:

    > Magnus W wrote:
    >
    >> It uses micro gyros.
    >>
    >> The system needs exact info on focal length and focus distance to be
    >> able to compensate correctly. This means /true/ focal length, not the
    >> values printed on the lens. The camera checks the focusing range all
    >> the way to infinity at startup (that is also in the manual) to build
    >> a focus distance table used with the internal D encoder so D lenses
    >> aren't needed -- this check is why focus limiters and macro switches
    >> can't be used, by the way.
    >>
    >> To get this info right, the camera must have a database of parameters
    >> of all pre-D lenses inside it. It is extremely unlikely that this
    >> database will contain non-Minolta items.

    >
    > Source Magnus? I'm not sure at all how pre-D lenses would transmit
    > their FL and zoom pos to the camera, never mind their "ID", yet the
    > A/S will work with almost all pre-D lenses.


    Well, I did write the info about how this is accomplished above too -- the
    7 (and D7D) has a built-in D encoder. It is attached to the screwdriver AF
    coupler and is not decoupled even in MF mode (if you are not using the
    "smooth manual focus" mode, note, not STF mode). The D7D will search to
    infinity at startup (this is a first for a Minolta camera). This is
    quite obviously done to count the revolutions from close focus to infinity,
    so the camera can determine D info without D lenses. Theoretically it
    wouldn't have to search in this way when using "proper" D lenses.

    > The note on page 19 is bizarre:
    >
    > "Each time the camera is turned on, it automatically
    > focuses the lens to the infinity position, even in manual
    > focus. This operation is necessary to ensure proper
    > exposures."


    This is exactly the reason. Not bizarre but quite clever.

    > This bothers me as I'm almost always in manual focus... will it
    > override that and do this function regardless? (rhetorical).


    Yes, but it will switch back to MF after doing its search, and the reason
    is that you won't get D info for the camera's functions if this is not
    done.

    > Another nit: no viewfinder shutter to block back light getting in. I
    > meter manually most of the time, so no big bother but another cost
    > saver by K-M.


    No 7 class camera has ever had this. In fact, only two AF Minoltas have had
    it; the 9000 and 9.

    > The "Smooth focus" described on 116 (51 of pdf 2) is, er, novel.
    > Strange too.


    Neither novel nor new. The 7 has it too. The reason is that internal
    systems are still attached to the focus shaft even when in MF mode. When
    using for example a 300/2.8 with tele converter in MF, you have to force
    1) lens
    2) TC
    3) internal gearing (in the camera)
    Plus slack in all gearing. This leads to extraordinarily sloppy focusing
    and is a major pain on the 7. So they put in a mode where you can
    physically decouple the focusing shaft from the lens, as done in all pre-7
    Minoltas.

    > Seems to be the bain of digital cameras:
    > Operating temperature: 0° - 40°C (32° - 104°F)


    Probably just a safeguard. But I am a little scared about using the AS
    system in cold; seems like it could actually freeze quite easily.
     
    Magnus W, Oct 18, 2004
    #18
  19. Alan Browne

    Magnus W Guest

    (Tom) wrote in
    news::

    > All my AF lenses transmit their actual focal length to the camera.
    > The exposure data recording does show this.


    But is that really /actual/ focal length, meaning not the marketing focal
    lengths printed on the lens? I don't think so. For example, the 100-
    400/4,5-6,7 APO is really a 101-382mm lens. The 135/2.8 is a 133mm. This
    info is needed for the best AS operation.

    > In the Magic Lantern book
    > "Classic Minolta Cameras", the sections on the i series cameras does
    > state that Minolta zooms have data on up to 12 zoom positions that are
    > transmitted to the camera for use in "P" setting of desired shutter
    > speed.

    [snip]
    > There was also some info on one of the
    > KM sites that stated that FL and magnification were taken into account
    > for AS.


    The question is how fine-grained the info used by the AS system needs to
    be. If it really is true that the lens transmits info in twelve zones, it
    can't be that critical; but I don't think it does. Rather I'd guess that
    previous cameras don't take exact zoom positions (transmitted by the lens)
    in account but rather uses twelve zones in their internal programming.

    If the FL info was that course (not taking actual FL into consideration,
    dividing the zooms in "zones") there would be absolutely no reason to do an
    infinity search at startup (as mag change when focusing is orders of
    magnitude less than when zooming a 100-400 inside a "zone"!). So, using a
    little backward logic, I indeed think that
    1) The lens transmits a unique lens ID
    2) It also transmits "marketing" focal lengths in pretty precise steps
    3) This is matched to an in-camera database storing all pre-D-lenses to
    determine real FL; the D lenses probably have means to transmit "real" info
    4) Focus distance is also used either from D or the in-body decoder

    > I think I disagree with Magus on where the database of lens parameters
    > is stored. He says the camera, but I think it is in each lens.
    > Reason? - Because my 24-105 lens was designed after my 700si or my
    > XTsi were made. But that lens works correctly with both of those
    > cameras to do the "P" mode scene recognition and subject program
    > exposure settings.


    There is no incompatibility, so why wouldn't it work with older cameras?
    They can't use D info, but they will still do their calibration search at
    the beginning to ensure that the focus is at a predetermined position.

    > However, my Tokina and Sigma lenses don't with any
    > of my 14-seg metering cameras.


    It is well known that many third party lenses can't do proper "expert
    system exposure", but the incompetence of these makers can't be taken as
    proof for anything -- we don't know exactly where they screwed up ;-)

    > (This has to do with setting the
    > desired aperture and DOF for the type of shot, not for getting a
    > corect exposure). So the data needed for the camera to know the
    > focusing position of my 24-105 (or any other newly designed lens)
    > probably has to be in the lens chip. I think that there is camera
    > specific calibration data that customizes each lens for each model
    > camera (for example, changing camera motor/AF drive ratios).


    Of course lots of info is in the camera ROM IC -- but I am more thinking of
    /actual/ focal lengths, zoom range (probably matched to a unique "lens ID")
    and the like. I am sceptical to the 20 year old AF lenses being so
    sophisticated and forward-looking, but of course everything is possible :)
     
    Magnus W, Oct 18, 2004
    #19
  20. Alan Browne

    Alan Browne Guest

    Tom wrote:

    >>The 100 f/2.8 macro does have a focus range limiter and this is probably an
    >>issue wrt the above exerpt.

    >
    >
    > Alan,
    > I agree with you. I use mine mostly with the range limiter in 'full'
    > position. I haven't had problems with it hunting. Although I usually
    > use manual focus for macro, I've also been successful when handholding
    > to set my film 7 to continuous AF. I found that in continuous the 7
    > can keep up with my rocking back and forth. Also with the film 7,
    > I'll use the AF/MF button on the back if the AF does start to hunt.
    > Then I press the button; the camera switches to MF; and I'll manually
    > focus. Once I'm in focus, I release the button; the camera switches
    > back to AF and tracks if I rock.


    I've had the 100 f/2.8 for about 2 years. It is stellar in all respects.

    Cheers,
    Alan

    --
    -- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
    -- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
    -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--
     
    Alan Browne, Oct 18, 2004
    #20
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