Market for netbooks swings to Windows XP over Linux

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by impossible, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. impossible

    impossible Guest

    impossible, Oct 11, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. impossible

    AD. Guest

    On Oct 11, 2:12 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows
    >
    > "...Asus had hoped sales of Eee PCs would be 50:50 between XP and Linux, but
    > actually they were 60:40 in XP's favour. "


    40% Linux? That's pretty high - you yourself go on about Linux only
    having a 2% market share. So when Linux has a more level playing field
    with Windows on a particular device, its rate of adoption is 20x
    higher than normal?

    Maybe Asus doesn't have the high return rates MSI have because Asus
    tailored an easy to use distro to their netbook. Reading your other
    linked post from the MSI blog, it sounds like MSI just dumped a
    version of SUSE on their netbook that even the technical reviewers had
    trouble with - no wonder they got returns. And from that same blog
    post MSI are now investigating other Linux options like Ubuntu that
    non technical users prefer over distros like SUSE.

    "Q: Interestingly enough, we struggled with the Linux version of the
    Wind U90. Are there plans to tailor a Linux OS for the Wind?"
    "A: We plan to bring the Linux version to the U.S by the end of the
    year. But we are working on some of the issues with the SUSE Linux and
    even continue to explore other flavors of Linux. We have discussed
    Ubuntu with a Mac OS type of look and feel. We are talking to
    different suppliers to figure out the best user experience."

    From the same sites review of that model:
    http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/msi-wind-u90.aspx?page=2

    "While we have been impressed with the intuitive Linux operating
    systems on systems such as the Acer Aspire one and the Dell Inspiron
    Mini 9, the SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 on the MSI U90X isn’t for
    inexperienced users."

    "However, all the eye candy in the world can’t make up for the U90X’
    lack of compatible drivers. Beyond not being able to use the
    integrated webcam, connecting to a wireless network was a hair-pulling
    experience—not only was it difficult to sign into a network, but the
    U90X also struggled to maintain a connection to a hotspot. This has
    been a documented problem with SUSE; we’re hard-pressed to understand
    why MSI would choose an operating system that’s lacking in the one
    area critical to the success of any netbook: the ability to connect to
    the Internet."

    It sure looks like the "4x the number of returns for Linux" that you
    gloat about is less about Linux itself and more about MSI doing a
    pretty shitty job themselves compared to the other netbook vendors.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Oct 11, 2008
    #2
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  3. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "AD." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On Oct 11, 2:12 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    >http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows
    >>
    >> "...Asus had hoped sales of Eee PCs would be 50:50 between XP and Linux,
    >> but
    >> actually they were 60:40 in XP's favour. "

    >
    > 40% Linux? That's pretty high - you yourself go on about Linux only
    > having a 2% market share. So when Linux has a more level playing field
    > with Windows on a particular device, its rate of adoption is 20x
    > higher than normal?
    >


    Level playing field? No -- Asus sold the EEE exclusively with Linux for four
    months, but sales were so disappointing that they decided to release a
    Windows XP version. IOW, even with a four-month head start, Linux can't
    compete.

    > Maybe Asus doesn't have the high return rates MSI have because Asus
    > tailored an easy to use distro to their netbook. Reading your other
    > linked post from the MSI blog, it sounds like MSI just dumped a
    > version of SUSE on their netbook that even the technical reviewers had
    > trouble with - no wonder they got returns. And from that same blog
    > post MSI are now investigating other Linux options like Ubuntu that
    > non technical users prefer over distros like SUSE.
    >


    If and when you find evidence that anything has changed, be sure to post it.

    > "Q: Interestingly enough, we struggled with the Linux version of the
    > Wind U90. Are there plans to tailor a Linux OS for the Wind?"
    > "A: We plan to bring the Linux version to the U.S by the end of the
    > year. But we are working on some of the issues with the SUSE Linux and
    > even continue to explore other flavors of Linux. We have discussed
    > Ubuntu with a Mac OS type of look and feel. We are talking to
    > different suppliers to figure out the best user experience."
    >
    > From the same sites review of that model:
    > http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/msi-wind-u90.aspx?page=2
    >
    > "While we have been impressed with the intuitive Linux operating
    > systems on systems such as the Acer Aspire one and the Dell Inspiron
    > Mini 9, the SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 on the MSI U90X isn’t for
    > inexperienced users."
    >


    IOW, more returns. You sure you want to go on with this?

    > "However, all the eye candy in the world can’t make up for the U90X’
    > lack of compatible drivers. Beyond not being able to use the
    > integrated webcam, connecting to a wireless network was a hair-pulling
    > experience—not only was it difficult to sign into a network, but the
    > U90X also struggled to maintain a connection to a hotspot. This has
    > been a documented problem with SUSE; we’re hard-pressed to understand
    > why MSI would choose an operating system that’s lacking in the one
    > area critical to the success of any netbook: the ability to connect to
    > the Internet."
    >


    You do realize that this is not helping your case, right?

    > It sure looks like the "4x the number of returns for Linux" that you
    > gloat about is less about Linux itself and more about MSI doing a
    > pretty shitty job themselves compared to the other netbook vendors.
    >


    <shakes head> There's always someone else to blame, isn't there?
    impossible, Oct 11, 2008
    #3
  4. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "smileitsunclejohn" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > impossible;9214639 Wrote:
    >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows
    >>
    >> "...Asus had hoped sales of Eee PCs would be 50:50 between XP and
    >> Linux, but
    >> actually they were 60:40 in XP's favour. "
    >>
    >> "Acer is also shipping XP, and that became its best seller at
    >> Amazon.com."

    >
    > If you give consumers the choice they will always go for the
    > established consumer option of XP over Linux.
    >


    So it seems, yes.

    > More infirmation on Linux needs to be made available outside of
    > enthusiast forums and newsgroups if it is to take off en mass.
    >
    >


    The more information that becomes available about Linux, the worse things
    seem to get.
    impossible, Oct 11, 2008
    #4
  5. impossible

    AD. Guest

    On Oct 11, 6:15 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > "AD." <> wrote in message
    > >
    > > Maybe Asus doesn't have the high return rates MSI have because Asus
    > > tailored an easy to use distro to their netbook. Reading your other
    > > linked post from the MSI blog, it sounds like MSI just dumped a
    > > version of SUSE on their netbook that even the technical reviewers had
    > > trouble with - no wonder they got returns. And from that same blog
    > > post MSI are now investigating other Linux options like Ubuntu that
    > > non technical users prefer over distros like SUSE.

    >
    > If and when you find evidence that anything has changed, be sure to post it.


    Huh? What does that reply have to do with anything? Evidence what has
    changed exactly?

    > > "While we have been impressed with the intuitive Linux operating
    > > systems on systems such as the Acer Aspire one and the Dell Inspiron
    > > Mini 9, the SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 on the MSI U90X isn’t for
    > > inexperienced users."

    >
    > IOW, more returns. You sure you want to go on with this?


    You seem to have trouble with basic comprehension.

    MSI screwed up their Linux implementation in multiple ways, the other
    vendors didn't. Compare the unfavorable review on that site of the MSI
    Linux model to the favorable reviews of the Asus Linux models on the
    same site. You don't think that MSI producing a bad product has some
    relevance to MSI getting lots of returns?

    > > "However, all the eye candy in the world can’t make up for the U90X’
    > > lack of compatible drivers. Beyond not being able to use the
    > > integrated webcam, connecting to a wireless network was a hair-pulling
    > > experience—not only was it difficult to sign into a network, but the
    > > U90X also struggled to maintain a connection to a hotspot. This has
    > > been a documented problem with SUSE; we’re hard-pressed to understand
    > > why MSI would choose an operating system that’s lacking in the one
    > > area critical to the success of any netbook: the ability to connect to
    > > the Internet."

    >
    > You do realize that this is not helping your case, right?


    What case? What did you think my case was?

    I'm just pointing out some context to the situation that your wild
    leap to conclusions neglected.

    It is obvious that MSI botched their implementation, and the other
    manufacturers didn't. MSI chose a unintuitive enterprise distro, and
    shipped broken drivers. The other vendors managed to ship Linux
    systems with much more intuitive interfaces and working drivers.

    By focusing on one vendor and claiming that it is representative
    despite being presented with evidence to the contrary from the very
    site you quoted - you're doing Lenniers trick of being too dense to
    understand the point then sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling
    "no it's not" "la la la I can't hear you" etc.

    Your position seems to be that because one vendor shipped a poorly
    conceived and broken Linux install, Linux itself is broken. If one of
    your chums from the other side of the trolling fence took a similar
    position over a vendor shipping a broken Windows install and implying
    that Windows itself was broken you'd (rightly) be all over that. Why
    the hypocrisy here?

    > > It sure looks like the "4x the number of returns for Linux" that you
    > > gloat about is less about Linux itself and more about MSI doing a
    > > pretty shitty job themselves compared to the other netbook vendors.

    >
    >  <shakes head> There's always someone else to blame, isn't there?


    Blame? For what?

    I don't give a crap about some random vendor getting lots of returns
    of a badly implemented product. I also don't give a crap about
    netbooks, or the desktop market share of Linux.

    I'm just pointing out the blatantly obvious flaws in your weak
    trolling attempts and to see how you try to respond with anything more
    substantial than lame contradictions or deflections.

    Come on, your trolling abilities won't improve much unless you are
    willing to put more effort into it than you are now - you definitely
    need the practice. All that arguing with Lennier has made you soft.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Oct 11, 2008
    #5
  6. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "AD." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    On Oct 11, 6:15 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > "AD." <> wrote in message
    >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows
    >>>>
    >>>> "...Asus had hoped sales of Eee PCs would be 50:50 between XP and
    >>>> Linux,
    >>>> but
    >>>> actually they were 60:40 in XP's favour. "
    >>>
    >>> 40% Linux? That's pretty high - you yourself go on about Linux only
    >>> having a 2% market share. So when Linux has a more level playing field
    >>> with Windows on a particular device, its rate of adoption is 20x
    >>> higher than normal?
    >>>

    >>
    >> Level playing field? No -- Asus sold the EEE exclusively with Linux for
    >> four
    >> months, but sales were so disappointing that they decided to release a
    >> Windows XP version. IOW, even with a four-month head start, Linux can't
    >> compete.
    >>
    >>> Maybe Asus doesn't have the high return rates MSI have because Asus
    >>> tailored an easy to use distro to their netbook. Reading your other
    >>> linked post from the MSI blog, it sounds like MSI just dumped a
    >>> version of SUSE on their netbook that even the technical reviewers had
    >>> trouble with - no wonder they got returns. And from that same blog
    >>> post MSI are now investigating other Linux options like Ubuntu that
    >>> non technical users prefer over distros like SUSE.
    >>>

    >>
    >> If and when you find evidence that anything has changed, be sure to post
    >> it.
    >>

    >
    > Huh? What does that reply have to do with anything? Evidence what has
    > changed exactly?


    You are devoted to the notion that the entiure problem MSI experienced with
    Linux returns was due to its choice of distro. Perhaps. But you provide no
    supporting evidence that the rate of returns would imporve with a change of
    distro. When you find this evidence, please do report back..

    >>> "Q: Interestingly enough, we struggled with the Linux version of the
    >>> Wind U90. Are there plans to tailor a Linux OS for the Wind?"
    >>> "A: We plan to bring the Linux version to the U.S by the end of the
    >>> year. But we are working on some of the issues with the SUSE Linux and
    >>> even continue to explore other flavors of Linux. We have discussed
    >>> Ubuntu with a Mac OS type of look and feel. We are talking to
    >>> different suppliers to figure out the best user experience."
    >>>
    >>> From the same sites review of that model:
    >>> http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/msi-wind-u90.aspx?page=2
    >>>
    >>> "While we have been impressed with the intuitive Linux operating
    >>> systems on systems such as the Acer Aspire one and the Dell Inspiron
    >>> Mini 9, the SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 on the MSI U90X isn’t for
    >>> inexperienced users."
    >>>

    >>
    >> IOW, more returns. You sure you want to go on with this?
    >>


    > You seem to have trouble with basic comprehension.


    > MSI screwed up their Linux implementation in multiple ways, the other
    > vendors didn't. Compare the unfavorable review on that site of the MSI
    > Linux model to the favorable reviews of the Asus Linux models on the
    > same site. You don't think that MSI producing a bad product has some
    > relevance to MSI getting lots of returns?


    The only thing "bad" about MSI's products were the Linux installations.If
    and when they find a distro that doesn't generate 4x the normal rate of
    returns, that will be news.

    >>> "However, all the eye candy in the world can’t make up for the U90X’
    >>> lack of compatible drivers. Beyond not being able to use the
    >>> integrated webcam, connecting to a wireless network was a hair-pulling
    >>> experience—not only was it difficult to sign into a network, but the
    >>> U90X also struggled to maintain a connection to a hotspot. This has
    >>> been a documented problem with SUSE; we’re hard-pressed to understand
    >>> why MSI would choose an operating system that’s lacking in the one
    >>> area critical to the success of any netbook: the ability to connect to
    >>> the Internet."
    >>>

    >>
    >> You do realize that this is not helping your case, right?
    >>

    >
    > What case? What did you think my case was?
    >


    True enough, you have no case. MSI's rate of returns on Linux machgines was
    4x the normal rate and all you've got is bluster.

    >> I'm just pointing out some context to the situation that your wild
    >> leap to conclusions neglected.


    I quoted MSI. It was their bottom line that Linux was wrecking.

    > It is obvious that MSI botched their implementation, and the other
    > manufacturers didn't. MSI chose a unintuitive enterprise distro, and
    > shipped broken drivers. The other vendors managed to ship Linux
    > systems with much more intuitive interfaces and working drivers.
    >
    > By focusing on one vendor and claiming that it is representative
    > despite being presented with evidence to the contrary from the very
    > site you quoted - you're doing Lenniers trick of being too dense to
    > understand the point then sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling
    > "no it's not" "la la la I can't hear you" etc.
    >


    If MSI's trouble were exceptional, your point would be well-taken. But
    it'scharacteristic of the general problem vendors have had in selling
    Linux-based machines. Just one year ago, the world's largest retailer --
    WalMart -- completely pulled Linux machines from its stores because they
    weren't selling and so just occupied space that could be otherwise used to
    generate reveneue. These are brutal but honest facts -- deal with them.

    > Your position seems to be that because one vendor shipped a poorly
    > conceived and broken Linux install, Linux itself is broken. If one of
    > your chums from the other side of the trolling fence took a similar
    > position over a vendor shipping a broken Windows install and implying
    > that Windows itself was broken you'd (rightly) be all over that. Why
    > the hypocrisy here?


    I have never said "linux is broken' -- that's your interprepation of the
    situation. Linux is simply unpopular. Why? Because there are no top-quality
    desktop applications that will run on it. If and when developers ever get
    around to solving that problem, I'm sure that rates of return on Linux
    products will drop.

    >>> It sure looks like the "4x the number of returns for Linux" that you
    >>> gloat about is less about Linux itself and more about MSI doing a
    >>> pretty shitty job themselves compared to the other netbook vendors.
    >>>

    >>
    >> <shakes head> There's always someone else to blame, isn't there?
    >>


    > Blame? For what?
    >


    For all the woes of nixophiles.

    > I don't give a crap about some random vendor getting lots of returns
    > of a badly implemented product. I also don't give a crap about
    > netbooks, or the desktop market share of Linux.
    >


    Whistling past the graveyard, are you? Typical.

    > I'm just pointing out the blatantly obvious flaws in your weak
    > trolling attempts and to see how you try to respond with anything more
    > substantial than lame contradictions or deflections.
    >


    Nah, you're just one of the local thugs assigned to beat down any criticism
    of your beloved os.

    >
    > Come on, your trolling abilities won't improve much unless you are
    > willing to put more effort into it than you are now - you definitely
    > need the practice. All that arguing with Lennier has made you soft.
    >
    >


    Lennier? Who's Lennier?
    impossible, Oct 11, 2008
    #6
  7. impossible

    AD. Guest

    On Oct 12, 2:59 am, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > You are devoted to the notion that the entiure problem MSI experienced with
    > Linux returns was due to its choice of distro. Perhaps. But you provide no
    > supporting evidence that the rate of returns would imporve with a change of
    > distro. When you find this evidence, please do report back..


    Huh? I've shown you that evidence from the same review site you liked
    to quote. Did you compare the reviews?

    Surely broken network drivers on that particular model are the main
    reason behind all the returns for that particular vendor? Occams razor
    and all that - if you want to make much more extravagant extrapolated
    claims than that it is you that would need to supply some real
    evidence.

    > The only thing "bad" about MSI's products were the Linux installations.If
    > and when they find a distro that doesn't generate 4x the normal rate of
    > returns, that will be news.


    Hehe, you're wanting evidence of a hypothetical future situation while
    conveniently ignoring the current evidence that MSI botched it.

    How about you show some evidence that the 4x return rate is typical
    for all the other vendors? Surely that kind of evidence is much more
    relevant to your argument - rather than the "la la la" fingers in the
    ears stuff you've produced so far.

    A quote from the very same article you linked to at the start of this
    thread:

    "I asked several Asus staff about figures for returns, but none
    thought that more Linux machines were being returned to stores."

    If the 4x return rate holds for all netbooks regardless of how good or
    bad their Linux implementations are, then you can legitimately claim
    what you are claiming. Which would be fine by me.

    > Lennier? Who's Lennier?


    I thought you'd been trolling around here long enough to know that. I
    think his current nym is Carnations or something.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Oct 11, 2008
    #7
  8. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "AD." <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> On Oct 11, 6:15 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    >>> "AD." <> wrote in message
    >>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "...Asus had hoped sales of Eee PCs would be 50:50 between XP and
    >>>>>> Linux,
    >>>>>> but
    >>>>>> actually they were 60:40 in XP's favour. "
    >>>>>
    >>>>> 40% Linux? That's pretty high - you yourself go on about Linux only
    >>>>> having a 2% market share. So when Linux has a more level playing field
    >>>>> with Windows on a particular device, its rate of adoption is 20x
    >>>>> higher than normal?
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Level playing field? No -- Asus sold the EEE exclusively with Linux for
    >>>> four
    >>>> months, but sales were so disappointing that they decided to release a
    >>>> Windows XP version. IOW, even with a four-month head start, Linux can't
    >>>> compete.
    >>>>
    >>>>> Maybe Asus doesn't have the high return rates MSI have because Asus
    >>>>> tailored an easy to use distro to their netbook. Reading your other
    >>>>> linked post from the MSI blog, it sounds like MSI just dumped a
    >>>>> version of SUSE on their netbook that even the technical reviewers had
    >>>>> trouble with - no wonder they got returns. And from that same blog
    >>>>> post MSI are now investigating other Linux options like Ubuntu that
    >>>>> non technical users prefer over distros like SUSE.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> If and when you find evidence that anything has changed, be sure to
    >>>> post
    >>>> it.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Huh? What does that reply have to do with anything? Evidence what has
    >>> changed exactly?

    >>
    >> You are devoted to the notion that the entiure problem MSI experienced
    >> with
    >> Linux returns was due to its choice of distro. Perhaps. But you provide
    >> no
    >> supporting evidence that the rate of returns would imporve with a change
    >> of
    >> distro. When you find this evidence, please do report back..
    >>

    >
    > Huh? I've shown you that evidence from the same review site you liked
    > to quote. Did you compare the reviews?
    >


    Nothing you've shown demonstrates that return rates for Linux machines are
    any less than what MSI cites: 4 times higher than other machines. Just
    because one distro snags a good review doesn't mean that users aren't still
    returning it when they find there are no useful applications to run. You
    keep dodging that issue, but back it comes to bite you every time.

    > Surely broken network drivers on that particular model are the main
    > reason behind all the returns for that particular vendor?


    And "surely" you have evidence of that? No, didn't think so.

    > Occams razor
    > and all that - if you want to make much more extravagant extrapolated
    > claims than that it is you that would need to supply some real
    > evidence.


    My only assumption is that MSI has no reason to lie. You, on the other hand,
    have demonstrated only that you'd prefer to change the subject.

    >>>>> "Q: Interestingly enough, we struggled with the Linux version of the
    >>>>> Wind U90. Are there plans to tailor a Linux OS for the Wind?"
    >>>>> "A: We plan to bring the Linux version to the U.S by the end of the
    >>>>> year. But we are working on some of the issues with the SUSE Linux and
    >>>>> even continue to explore other flavors of Linux. We have discussed
    >>>>> Ubuntu with a Mac OS type of look and feel. We are talking to
    >>>>> different suppliers to figure out the best user experience."
    >>>>>
    >>>>> From the same sites review of that model:
    >>>>> http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/msi-wind-u90.aspx?page=2
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "While we have been impressed with the intuitive Linux operating
    >>>>> systems on systems such as the Acer Aspire one and the Dell Inspiron
    >>>>> Mini 9, the SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 on the MSI U90X isn't for
    >>>>> inexperienced users."
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> IOW, more returns. You sure you want to go on with this?
    >>>>

    >>
    >>> You seem to have trouble with basic comprehension.

    >>
    >>> MSI screwed up their Linux implementation in multiple ways, the other
    >>> vendors didn't. Compare the unfavorable review on that site of the MSI
    >>> Linux model to the favorable reviews of the Asus Linux models on the
    >>> same site. You don't think that MSI producing a bad product has some
    >>> relevance to MSI getting lots of returns?

    >>
    >> The only thing "bad" about MSI's products were the Linux installations.If
    >> and when they find a distro that doesn't generate 4x the normal rate of
    >> returns, that will be news.
    >>

    > Hehe, you're wanting evidence of a hypothetical future situation while
    > conveniently ignoring the current evidence that MSI botched it.
    >


    As I said, you're always looking for someone else to blame for Linux's
    faults. No wonder usage is stagnating. If Linux developers aren't listening
    to their customers, then why should customers hang around?

    > How about you show some evidence that the 4x return rate is typical
    > for all the other vendors? Surely that kind of evidence is much more
    > relevant to your argument - rather than the "la la la" fingers in the
    > ears stuff you've produced so far.
    >
    > A quote from the very same article you linked to at the start of this
    > thread:
    >
    > "I asked several Asus staff about figures for returns, but none
    > thought that more Linux machines were being returned to stores."
    >
    > If the 4x return rate holds for all netbooks regardless of how good or
    > bad their Linux implementations are, then you can legitimately claim
    > what you are claiming. Which would be fine by me.
    >


    Nah, you'd just whine more about "stupid vendors".

    >>>>> "However, all the eye candy in the world can't make up for the U90X'
    >>>>> lack of compatible drivers. Beyond not being able to use the
    >>>>> integrated webcam, connecting to a wireless network was a hair-pulling
    >>>>> experience-not only was it difficult to sign into a network, but the
    >>>>> U90X also struggled to maintain a connection to a hotspot. This has
    >>>>> been a documented problem with SUSE; we're hard-pressed to understand
    >>>>> why MSI would choose an operating system that's lacking in the one
    >>>>> area critical to the success of any netbook: the ability to connect to
    >>>>> the Internet."
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> You do realize that this is not helping your case, right?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> What case? What did you think my case was?
    >>>

    >>
    >> True enough, you have no case. MSI's rate of returns on Linux machgines
    >> was
    >> 4x the normal rate and all you've got is bluster.
    >>
    >>>> I'm just pointing out some context to the situation that your wild
    >>>> leap to conclusions neglected.

    >>
    >> I quoted MSI. It was their bottom line that Linux was wrecking.
    >>
    >>> It is obvious that MSI botched their implementation, and the other
    >>> manufacturers didn't. MSI chose a unintuitive enterprise distro, and
    >>> shipped broken drivers. The other vendors managed to ship Linux
    >>> systems with much more intuitive interfaces and working drivers.
    >>>
    >>> By focusing on one vendor and claiming that it is representative
    >>> despite being presented with evidence to the contrary from the very
    >>> site you quoted - you're doing Lenniers trick of being too dense to
    >>> understand the point then sticking his fingers in his ears and yelling
    >>> "no it's not" "la la la I can't hear you" etc.
    >>>

    >>
    >> If MSI's trouble were exceptional, your point would be well-taken. But
    >> it'scharacteristic of the general problem vendors have had in selling
    >> Linux-based machines. Just one year ago, the world's largest retailer --
    >> WalMart -- completely pulled Linux machines from its stores because they
    >> weren't selling and so just occupied space that could be otherwise used
    >> to
    >> generate reveneue. These are brutal but honest facts -- deal with them.
    >>
    >>> Your position seems to be that because one vendor shipped a poorly
    >>> conceived and broken Linux install, Linux itself is broken. If one of
    >>> your chums from the other side of the trolling fence took a similar
    >>> position over a vendor shipping a broken Windows install and implying
    >>> that Windows itself was broken you'd (rightly) be all over that. Why
    >>> the hypocrisy here?

    >>
    >> I have never said "linux is broken' -- that's your interprepation of the
    >> situation. Linux is simply unpopular. Why? Because there are no
    >> top-quality
    >> desktop applications that will run on it. If and when developers ever get
    >> around to solving that problem, I'm sure that rates of return on Linux
    >> products will drop.
    >>
    >>>>> It sure looks like the "4x the number of returns for Linux" that you
    >>>>> gloat about is less about Linux itself and more about MSI doing a
    >>>>> pretty shitty job themselves compared to the other netbook vendors.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> <shakes head> There's always someone else to blame, isn't there?
    >>>>

    >>
    >>> Blame? For what?
    >>>

    >>
    >> For all the woes of nixophiles.
    >>
    >>> I don't give a crap about some random vendor getting lots of returns
    >>> of a badly implemented product. I also don't give a crap about
    >>> netbooks, or the desktop market share of Linux.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Whistling past the graveyard, are you? Typical.
    >>
    >>> I'm just pointing out the blatantly obvious flaws in your weak
    >>> trolling attempts and to see how you try to respond with anything more
    >>> substantial than lame contradictions or deflections.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Nah, you're just one of the local thugs assigned to beat down any
    >> criticism
    >> of your beloved os.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Come on, your trolling abilities won't improve much unless you are
    >>> willing to put more effort into it than you are now - you definitely
    >>> need the practice. All that arguing with Lennier has made you soft.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Lennier? Who's Lennier?
    >>


    > I thought you'd been trolling around here long enough to know that. I
    > think his current nym is Carnations or something.


    Sorry, but fanatical nixophiles all sound alike to me.
    impossible, Oct 11, 2008
    #8
  9. Re: Market for netbooks swings to Linux

    In message <>, whoisthis wrote:

    > It may help to see what kind of people are buying it..... I have looked
    > and played and used one and it comes away as a toy to me.


    Did you know that Apple is going to come out with one?

    > For example Apple may have only 10% of the sales, yet they have 30% of the
    > dollars spent on laptops.


    Apple only has about 3% of the sales. I think you're quoting US figures.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 11, 2008
    #9
  10. Re: Market for netbooks swings to Linux

    In message
    <>, AD.
    wrote:

    > MSI screwed up their Linux implementation in multiple ways, the other
    > vendors didn't.


    Asus was specifically asked about this
    <http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows>, and
    reported no higher rates of return for their Linux models, which continue
    to sell very well. So the fact that the competition is able to do better is
    all the proof you need that MSI screwed up.6
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 11, 2008
    #10
  11. impossible

    AD. Guest

    On Oct 12, 11:05 am, "impossible" <> wrote:

    > Nothing you've shown demonstrates that return rates for Linux machines are
    > any less than what MSI cites: 4 times higher than other machines.


    The very link you posted had Asus claiming otherwise. You still have
    trouble reading don't you?

    > And "surely" you have evidence of that? No, didn't think so.
    > My only assumption is that MSI has no reason to lie. You, on the other hand,
    > have demonstrated only that you'd prefer to change the subject.
    > As I said, you're always looking for someone else to blame for Linux's
    > faults. No wonder usage is stagnating. If Linux developers aren't listening
    > to their customers, then why should customers hang around?
    > Nah, you'd just whine more about "stupid vendors".
    > Sorry, but fanatical nixophiles all sound alike to me.


    You didn't answer a single question I put to you - just deflected them
    all with wild assumptions about what I think.

    The facts from the exact same pages you've linked to:

    MSI has an unusually high return rate for their Linux models. Reviews
    of those MSI models cite broken drivers that can't connect to
    networks, and unintuitive GUIs. MSI say they are looking at changing
    the Linux distro they use to a more intuitive one.

    Asus Linux models get good reviews (from the same people) for their
    intuitive interfaces (using a different distro from the one used by
    MSI). Asus claims no difference in return rates between Linux and
    Windows models. The Dell and Acer models also get favourable comments.

    Extrapolating that into "Linux is the problem" while ignoring plainly
    MSIs faulty implementation reveals huge bias on your part.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Oct 12, 2008
    #11
  12. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "AD." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Oct 12, 11:05 am, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > "AD." <> wrote in message
    >> >> news:...
    >> >> On Oct 11, 6:15 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    >> >>> "AD." <> wrote in message
    >> >>>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows
    >> >>>>>>
    >> >>>>>> "...Asus had hoped sales of Eee PCs would be 50:50 between XP and
    >> >>>>>> Linux,
    >> >>>>>> but
    >> >>>>>> actually they were 60:40 in XP's favour. "
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> 40% Linux? That's pretty high - you yourself go on about Linux only
    >> >>>>> having a 2% market share. So when Linux has a more level playing
    >> >>>>> field
    >> >>>>> with Windows on a particular device, its rate of adoption is 20x
    >> >>>>> higher than normal?
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> Level playing field? No -- Asus sold the EEE exclusively with Linux
    >> >>>> for
    >> >>>> four
    >> >>>> months, but sales were so disappointing that they decided to release
    >> >>>> a
    >> >>>> Windows XP version. IOW, even with a four-month head start, Linux
    >> >>>> can't
    >> >>>> compete.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>>> Maybe Asus doesn't have the high return rates MSI have because Asus
    >> >>>>> tailored an easy to use distro to their netbook. Reading your other
    >> >>>>> linked post from the MSI blog, it sounds like MSI just dumped a
    >> >>>>> version of SUSE on their netbook that even the technical reviewers
    >> >>>>> had
    >> >>>>> trouble with - no wonder they got returns. And from that same blog
    >> >>>>> post MSI are now investigating other Linux options like Ubuntu that
    >> >>>>> non technical users prefer over distros like SUSE.
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> If and when you find evidence that anything has changed, be sure to
    >> >>>> post
    >> >>>> it.
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Huh? What does that reply have to do with anything? Evidence what has
    >> >>> changed exactly?
    >> >>
    >> >> You are devoted to the notion that the entiure problem MSI experienced
    >> >> with
    >> >> Linux returns was due to its choice of distro. Perhaps. But you
    >> >> provide
    >> >> no
    >> >> supporting evidence that the rate of returns would imporve with a
    >> >> change
    >> >> of
    >> >> distro. When you find this evidence, please do report back..
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> > Huh? I've shown you that evidence from the same review site you liked
    >> > to quote. Did you compare the reviews?
    >> >

    >>
    >> Nothing you've shown demonstrates that return rates for Linux machines
    >> are
    >> any less than what MSI cites: 4 times higher than other machines.


    > The very link you posted had Asus claiming otherwise. You still have
    > trouble reading don't you?


    I'm on to you, Anton, and your despicable habit of selectively editing posts
    to twist the meaning of what someone says. Let's restore the full context of
    the discussion here for the sake of accuracy.

    > Just
    >> because one distro snags a good review doesn't mean that users aren't
    >> still
    >> returning it when they find there are no useful applications to run. You
    >> keep dodging that issue, but back it comes to bite you every time.
    >>


    Busted, you miserable little thug. All someone had to do to understand your
    dodge wass to read the sentence that followed, where I noted the difference
    between a friendly review (probably bought and paid for) and the uncensored
    behavior of customers rejected the Linux machines. Couldn't handle an
    argument with me on level terms, could you? Just like all the other
    nixoplile losers.

    >> > Surely broken network drivers on that particular model are the main
    >> > reason behind all the returns for that particular vendor?

    >>
    >> And "surely" you have evidence of that? No, didn't think so.
    >>
    >> > Occams razor
    >> > and all that - if you want to make much more extravagant extrapolated
    >> > claims than that it is you that would need to supply some real
    >> > evidence.

    >>
    >> My only assumption is that MSI has no reason to lie. You, on the other
    >> hand,
    >> have demonstrated only that you'd prefer to change the subject.
    >>
    >> >>>>> "Q: Interestingly enough, we struggled with the Linux version of
    >> >>>>> the
    >> >>>>> Wind U90. Are there plans to tailor a Linux OS for the Wind?"
    >> >>>>> "A: We plan to bring the Linux version to the U.S by the end of the
    >> >>>>> year. But we are working on some of the issues with the SUSE Linux
    >> >>>>> and
    >> >>>>> even continue to explore other flavors of Linux. We have discussed
    >> >>>>> Ubuntu with a Mac OS type of look and feel. We are talking to
    >> >>>>> different suppliers to figure out the best user experience."
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> From the same sites review of that model:
    >> >>>>> http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/msi-wind-u90.aspx?page=2
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>> "While we have been impressed with the intuitive Linux operating
    >> >>>>> systems on systems such as the Acer Aspire one and the Dell
    >> >>>>> Inspiron
    >> >>>>> Mini 9, the SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop 10 on the MSI U90X isn't
    >> >>>>> for
    >> >>>>> inexperienced users."
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> IOW, more returns. You sure you want to go on with this?
    >> >>>>
    >> >>
    >> >>> You seem to have trouble with basic comprehension.
    >> >>
    >> >>> MSI screwed up their Linux implementation in multiple ways, the other
    >> >>> vendors didn't. Compare the unfavorable review on that site of the
    >> >>> MSI
    >> >>> Linux model to the favorable reviews of the Asus Linux models on the
    >> >>> same site. You don't think that MSI producing a bad product has some
    >> >>> relevance to MSI getting lots of returns?
    >> >>
    >> >> The only thing "bad" about MSI's products were the Linux
    >> >> installations.If
    >> >> and when they find a distro that doesn't generate 4x the normal rate
    >> >> of
    >> >> returns, that will be news.
    >> >>
    >> > Hehe, you're wanting evidence of a hypothetical future situation while
    >> > conveniently ignoring the current evidence that MSI botched it.
    >> >

    >>
    >> As I said, you're always looking for someone else to blame for Linux's
    >> faults. No wonder usage is stagnating. If Linux developers aren't
    >> listening
    >> to their customers, then why should customers hang around?
    >>
    >> > How about you show some evidence that the 4x return rate is typical
    >> > for all the other vendors? Surely that kind of evidence is much more
    >> > relevant to your argument - rather than the "la la la" fingers in the
    >> > ears stuff you've produced so far.
    >> >
    >> > A quote from the very same article you linked to at the start of this
    >> > thread:
    >> >
    >> > "I asked several Asus staff about figures for returns, but none
    >> > thought that more Linux machines were being returned to stores."
    >> >
    >> > If the 4x return rate holds for all netbooks regardless of how good or
    >> > bad their Linux implementations are, then you can legitimately claim
    >> > what you are claiming. Which would be fine by me.
    >> >

    >>
    >> Nah, you'd just whine more about "stupid vendors".
    >>
    >> >>>>> "However, all the eye candy in the world can't make up for the
    >> >>>>> U90X'
    >> >>>>> lack of compatible drivers. Beyond not being able to use the
    >> >>>>> integrated webcam, connecting to a wireless network was a
    >> >>>>> hair-pulling
    >> >>>>> experience-not only was it difficult to sign into a network, but
    >> >>>>> the
    >> >>>>> U90X also struggled to maintain a connection to a hotspot. This has
    >> >>>>> been a documented problem with SUSE; we're hard-pressed to
    >> >>>>> understand
    >> >>>>> why MSI would choose an operating system that's lacking in the one
    >> >>>>> area critical to the success of any netbook: the ability to connect
    >> >>>>> to
    >> >>>>> the Internet."
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> You do realize that this is not helping your case, right?
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> What case? What did you think my case was?
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >> True enough, you have no case. MSI's rate of returns on Linux
    >> >> machgines
    >> >> was
    >> >> 4x the normal rate and all you've got is bluster.
    >> >>
    >> >>>> I'm just pointing out some context to the situation that your wild
    >> >>>> leap to conclusions neglected.
    >> >>
    >> >> I quoted MSI. It was their bottom line that Linux was wrecking.
    >> >>
    >> >>> It is obvious that MSI botched their implementation, and the other
    >> >>> manufacturers didn't. MSI chose a unintuitive enterprise distro, and
    >> >>> shipped broken drivers. The other vendors managed to ship Linux
    >> >>> systems with much more intuitive interfaces and working drivers.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> By focusing on one vendor and claiming that it is representative
    >> >>> despite being presented with evidence to the contrary from the very
    >> >>> site you quoted - you're doing Lenniers trick of being too dense to
    >> >>> understand the point then sticking his fingers in his ears and
    >> >>> yelling
    >> >>> "no it's not" "la la la I can't hear you" etc.
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >> If MSI's trouble were exceptional, your point would be well-taken. But
    >> >> it'scharacteristic of the general problem vendors have had in selling
    >> >> Linux-based machines. Just one year ago, the world's largest
    >> >> retailer --
    >> >> WalMart -- completely pulled Linux machines from its stores because
    >> >> they
    >> >> weren't selling and so just occupied space that could be otherwise
    >> >> used
    >> >> to
    >> >> generate reveneue. These are brutal but honest facts -- deal with
    >> >> them.
    >> >>
    >> >>> Your position seems to be that because one vendor shipped a poorly
    >> >>> conceived and broken Linux install, Linux itself is broken. If one of
    >> >>> your chums from the other side of the trolling fence took a similar
    >> >>> position over a vendor shipping a broken Windows install and implying
    >> >>> that Windows itself was broken you'd (rightly) be all over that. Why
    >> >>> the hypocrisy here?
    >> >>
    >> >> I have never said "linux is broken' -- that's your interprepation of
    >> >> the
    >> >> situation. Linux is simply unpopular. Why? Because there are no
    >> >> top-quality
    >> >> desktop applications that will run on it. If and when developers ever
    >> >> get
    >> >> around to solving that problem, I'm sure that rates of return on Linux
    >> >> products will drop.
    >> >>
    >> >>>>> It sure looks like the "4x the number of returns for Linux" that
    >> >>>>> you
    >> >>>>> gloat about is less about Linux itself and more about MSI doing a
    >> >>>>> pretty shitty job themselves compared to the other netbook vendors.
    >> >>>>>
    >> >>>>
    >> >>>> <shakes head> There's always someone else to blame, isn't there?
    >> >>>>
    >> >>
    >> >>> Blame? For what?
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >> For all the woes of nixophiles.
    >> >>
    >> >>> I don't give a crap about some random vendor getting lots of returns
    >> >>> of a badly implemented product. I also don't give a crap about
    >> >>> netbooks, or the desktop market share of Linux.
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >> Whistling past the graveyard, are you? Typical.
    >> >>
    >> >>> I'm just pointing out the blatantly obvious flaws in your weak
    >> >>> trolling attempts and to see how you try to respond with anything
    >> >>> more
    >> >>> substantial than lame contradictions or deflections.
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >> Nah, you're just one of the local thugs assigned to beat down any
    >> >> criticism
    >> >> of your beloved os.
    >> >>
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Come on, your trolling abilities won't improve much unless you are
    >> >>> willing to put more effort into it than you are now - you definitely
    >> >>> need the practice. All that arguing with Lennier has made you soft.
    >> >>>
    >> >>>
    >> >>
    >> >> Lennier? Who's Lennier?
    >> >>

    >>
    >> > I thought you'd been trolling around here long enough to know that. I
    >> > think his current nym is Carnations or something.

    >>
    >> Sorry, but fanatical nixophiles all sound alike to me.
    >>

    > You didn't answer a single question I put to you - just deflected them
    > all with wild assumptions about what I think.
    >


    The record is now crystal clear -- just like Lawrence D'Loser and
    CupaPee/Carnations, you can't carry an argument without selectively editing
    posts to twist the meaning of what someone says and change the subject.

    > The facts from the exact same pages you've linked to:
    >
    > MSI has an unusually high return rate for their Linux models. Reviews
    > of those MSI models cite broken drivers that can't connect to
    > networks, and unintuitive GUIs. MSI say they are looking at changing
    > the Linux distro they use to a more intuitive one.
    >


    Yes, we know. MSI customers returned Linux machines at 4 times the rate they
    did other machines. This expereince is in line with the general problem
    vendors have had in selling Linux-based machines. Remember (because when you
    deleted this point from a previous post of mine you may have missed it):
    Just one year ago, the world's largest retailer --WalMart -- completely
    pulled Linux machines from its stores because they weren't selling and so
    just occupied space that could be otherwise used to generate reveneue.

    Here are a couple of blogs that reference this fact:

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=1468
    http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/03/wal-mart-linux.html
    http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS9088528047.html

    As quoted in the Associated Press: "This really wasn't what our customers
    were looking for," said Wal-Mart Stores Inc. spokeswoman Melissa O'Brien.

    So that's the real context of the situation. Not one bad decision by one
    vendor but a systematic pattern of customer rejection. Customers would
    rather pay extra for a Windows machine then waste their time with Linux
    machines that have no top-quality desktop applications.

    > Asus Linux models get good reviews (from the same people) for their
    > intuitive interfaces (using a different distro from the one used by
    > MSI). Asus claims no difference in return rates between Linux and
    > Windows models. The Dell and Acer models also get favourable comments.
    >


    MSI's experience wazs reported by their Director of US Sales -- that's who I
    quoted. The "Asus" claim you cite comes anonymously from "several Asus
    staff" that some blogger happened to talk to. I leave it other readers to
    judge the comparative reliability of these two sources.

    > Extrapolating that into "Linux is the problem" while ignoring plainly
    > MSIs faulty implementation reveals huge bias on your part.
    >


    I'm always biased by the truth.
    impossible, Oct 12, 2008
    #12
  13. impossible

    AD. Guest

    On Oct 13, 2:46 am, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > Busted, you miserable little thug. All someone had to do to understand your
    > dodge wass to read the sentence that followed, where I noted the difference
    > between a friendly review (probably bought and paid for) and the uncensored
    > behavior of customers rejected the Linux machines. Couldn't handle an
    > argument with me on level terms, could you? Just like all the other
    > nixoplile losers.


    Heh, there was no dodge, I was snipping your continued attempts to
    shift the topic so you couldn't ignore the actual point I was
    unsuccessfully trying to get you to address.

    You really are jumping to conclusions about what my views are. Just
    because someone disagrees with you, they are automatically a
    'nixoplile loser'?

    I've had arguments in the past with some of your 'nixoplile losers'
    where I've called them on bullshit they've spouted, just like I called
    you on it here. And you have the exact same debating style - except
    maybe you seem to get angrier and more personal for some reason. It's
    far more defensive, and isn't good trolling technique. You are just
    the Windows worshipping mirror image of them. Anyone that attempts to
    question/clarify/correct your bullshit is a 'thug' out to hurt your
    precious OS?

    And no I'm not the Linux fanboi you accuse me of being. I have a bunch
    of MS certs stretching back to NT4. In the past I've worked as a
    consultant implementing and support Windows networks. The network I
    built and run for my current employer has Windows (it uses Active
    Directory and Exchange) and Debian servers, The desktops are mostly
    WinXP with some Macs and Ubuntu desktops also. Although I've
    successfully used Linux desktops for work, my current one is XP
    because I couldn't be bothered rebuilding it after inheriting the
    machine from another user. Next machine though, I think I'd prefer to
    use either Linux or a Mac.

    I'm only pointing this out to correct your wild assertions, although I
    fully expect you to accuse me of lying or something. A bit like how
    you accuse articles or reviews you don't agree with of being paid off.
    Do you apply the same skepticism to articles you do agree with? I mean
    if that is as common a practice as you seem to think, then surely most
    of the articles that are favourable to Windows must be paid off too
    right?

    Also I don't care much for netbooks - they are just lightweight toys
    for web surfing on the go and the screens are too small. Which is why
    claims of limited application availability for them doesn't hold a
    whole lot of water - for most netbook users everything they really
    need is already there. Who buys a netbook for MS Office, Photoshop or
    AutoCAD? Yeah it would be a completely different story for full blown
    laptops or desktops.

    And I'm prepared to accept that netbook return rates are 4x higher for
    Linux across the board if you can show that. And if that were the case
    I'd accept Linux was the common denominator. I don't doubt that Linux
    sales numbers aren't be as good as Windows - I'm even surprised they
    are as high as they are. Yes whoisthis it wasn't spin, I am surprised
    that overall Asus has had 40% sales of Linux models when Windows has
    90% of the rest of the market.

    Low sales numbers are a different thing altogether from high return
    rates though. For you to think the return rates are mostly customers
    making a bad choice rather than mostly due to a demonstratively bad/
    faulty model (which it just so happens is the only one reporting high
    return rates), then you must think the Windows buying public is really
    really stupid and they have no idea what they are buying.

    And you don't think the MSI sales director would rather spin the
    result as due to customer choices than a faulty product? Yet you
    accuse the review websites of hidden agendas - isn't that a stretch?
    Who has the most to lose here?

    I can kinda understand a little bit of where a Linux or Mac fanboi
    comes from though. They have a misguided emotional attachment to a
    minority system that has the playing field tilted against them by
    larger players. They get defensive being the underdog, and want their
    preferred platform to survive. Personally though, I think both Linux
    and the Mac are now completely established and viable and the fanbois
    hurt far more than they help anything.

    What I can't understand though is the Windows fanboi. Sure I can
    understand the pragmatic reasons why people use Windows - just not
    where the Windows fanbois come from. Are they scared that Windows
    market share might drop below 80% if they don't fight off the
    barbarian hordes? Are their livelihoods threatened if MS is no longer
    an utterly dominant player? Are they scared of having to learn another
    system or being users of a minority system themselves?

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
    AD., Oct 12, 2008
    #13
  14. In message <>, whoisthis wrote:

    > I bought one (MBP) on the bleeding edge and its never skipped a beat, I
    > really needed a laptop I could run Parallels on (Cad Work) and it worked
    > hard for comming up 3 years as well as having travelled every day in a
    > laptop/backpack ...


    Sure, that's fine, except a backpack isn't exactly de rigueur for business
    meetings.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 12, 2008
    #14
  15. In message
    <>, AD.
    wrote:

    > And I'm prepared to accept that netbook return rates are 4x higher for
    > Linux across the board ...


    They're not.

    > I am surprised that overall Asus has had 40% sales of Linux models when
    > Windows has 90% of the rest of the market.


    That doesn't sound quite right. The correct figure is that 40% of Asus'
    netbook sales are of its Linux models.

    > And you don't think the MSI sales director would rather spin the
    > result as due to customer choices than a faulty product?


    The fact that the competition is selling better is clear proof that it's an
    MSI screwup.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 12, 2008
    #15
  16. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "AD." <> wrote in message
    news:...

    I'm done with you. Go play with Lennier or Lawrence D'Loser or one of the
    other jokers in this group who think it's clever to distort what someone
    says by selectively editing posts. To me, that kind of behavior is simply
    despicable.
    impossible, Oct 13, 2008
    #16
  17. Re: Market for netbooks swings to Linux

    In message <gcrb0t$ni$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > In message
    > <>, AD.
    > wrote:
    >
    >> MSI screwed up their Linux implementation in multiple ways, the other
    >> vendors didn't.

    >
    > Asus was specifically asked about this
    > <http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows>, and
    > reported no higher rates of return for their Linux models, which continue
    > to sell very well. So the fact that the competition is able to do better
    > is all the proof you need that MSI screwed up.6


    ABI Research forecasts a 2:1 swing to Linux over Windows
    <http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/10/14/arm_vs_intel_umd_biz/>.
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 15, 2008
    #17
  18. impossible

    impossible Guest

    Re: Market for netbooks swings to Linux

    "Lawrence D'Oliveiro" <_zealand> wrote in message
    news:gd3lvd$t7o$...
    > In message <gcrb0t$ni$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >> In message
    >> <>, AD.
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> MSI screwed up their Linux implementation in multiple ways, the other
    >>> vendors didn't.

    >>
    >> Asus was specifically asked about this
    >> <http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2008/oct/08/linux.windows>,
    >> and
    >> reported no higher rates of return for their Linux models, which continue
    >> to sell very well. So the fact that the competition is able to do better
    >> is all the proof you need that MSI screwed up.6

    >
    > ABI Research forecasts a 2:1 swing to Linux over Windows
    > <http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/10/14/arm_vs_intel_umd_biz/>.


    With no evidence to support that claim, of course -- sheer speculation. And
    one that ABI hopes no one will remember by...let me see...when is this
    "swing" supposed to be accomplished?...ah, yes,...2013! Reminds me of the
    the 2003 prediction that Linux would capture 50% of the desktop market
    by.....now!!! In the merry world of Linux marketting, wild predictions are
    what we've come to expect.
    impossible, Oct 15, 2008
    #18
  19. Hi there,

    impossible wrote:
    > "AD." <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > I'm done with you. Go play with Lennier or Lawrence D'Loser or one of
    > the other jokers in this group who think it's clever to distort what
    > someone says by selectively editing posts. To me, that kind of behavior
    > is simply despicable.


    Snipping down some content is nothing out of the ordinary when
    it comes to usenetiquette. Its insignificant when compared to
    the twists and smears that you barrage this group with.

    Snipping vs fabrications? Gimme snipping anyday...

    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Edinburgh.
    Chris Wilkinson, Oct 15, 2008
    #19
  20. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "Chris Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
    news:G4oJk.1519$2...

    > Gimme snipping ....


    Quite the thug now, aren't you?
    impossible, Oct 16, 2008
    #20
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