Making VOIP calls via a broadband dongle

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by Murmansk69, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Murmansk69

    Murmansk69 Guest

    A friend of mine currently has no landline and is thinking of buying a
    laptop.

    I've suggested that she could get a broadband dongle to give her
    internet access via the mobile phone network and also, potentially,
    the ability to make VOIP calls.

    What sort of bandwidth does making a VOIP call actually use and do the
    suppliers allow you to use their service for VOIP?

    Thanks
     
    Murmansk69, Aug 25, 2008
    #1
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  2. Murmansk69

    Brian A Guest

    On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:54:26 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk69
    <> wrote:

    >A friend of mine currently has no landline and is thinking of buying a
    >laptop.
    >
    >I've suggested that she could get a broadband dongle to give her
    >internet access via the mobile phone network and also, potentially,
    >the ability to make VOIP calls.

    I would think that the best way to do this would be to get a mobile
    phone that would enable a softphone such as 'Fring' to be installed.
    If the phone also does wifi then that might be used sometimes when
    available.
    Sitting at a laptop or attaching an adapter somehow to a laptop isn't
    very elegant but it is possible. Can use softphones such as x-lite.
    >
    >What sort of bandwidth does making a VOIP call actually use

    Varies according to codec. Look here:-
    http://www.erlang.com/bandwidth.html#SimpleCalculation

    >and do the suppliers allow you to use their service for VOIP?

    I think that it varies. T-Mobile don't like it but I don't think that
    '3' mind as they already let people make calls via Skype.




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    Brian A, Aug 25, 2008
    #2
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  3. In article <>,
    Brian A <> wrote:
    >On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:54:26 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk69
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>A friend of mine currently has no landline and is thinking of buying a
    >>laptop.
    >>
    >>I've suggested that she could get a broadband dongle to give her
    >>internet access via the mobile phone network and also, potentially,
    >>the ability to make VOIP calls.

    >I would think that the best way to do this would be to get a mobile
    >phone that would enable a softphone such as 'Fring' to be installed.
    >If the phone also does wifi then that might be used sometimes when
    >available.
    >Sitting at a laptop or attaching an adapter somehow to a laptop isn't
    >very elegant but it is possible. Can use softphones such as x-lite.


    Alternatively, get a mobile phone, and rather than also get a dongle,
    get a cable to use the phone as a 'modem' to the laptop.

    then use the mobile phone to make calls on, as that's what it was
    designed for.

    >>What sort of bandwidth does making a VOIP call actually use

    >Varies according to codec. Look here:-
    >http://www.erlang.com/bandwidth.html#SimpleCalculation


    A Standard call will use 64Kbps + an overhead of approx. 16Kbps. Using
    the GSM codec will need about 13Kbps + the 16Kbps overhead - easilly
    achievable, even with GPRS, let alone a "3g" connection.

    HOWEVER... Latency is rather high on mobile data connections. I have
    placd calls over them, and while usable, the actualy user experience
    isn't that good.

    >>and do the suppliers allow you to use their service for VOIP?

    >I think that it varies. T-Mobile don't like it but I don't think that
    >'3' mind as they already let people make calls via Skype.


    AIUI - the Skype calls go over their "normal" voice network, and are
    converted to/from skype at their HQ ...

    So what I'm saying is: Keep It Simple, Stupid... Use a mobile phone for
    making calls, and use the same mobile with a USB cable, or a data dongle
    for Internet access, but don't mix them.

    Gordon
     
    Gordon Henderson, Aug 25, 2008
    #3
  4. Murmansk69

    Murmansk69 Guest

    On Aug 25, 9:54 pm, Gordon Henderson <> wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Brian A  <> wrote:
    >
    > >On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:54:26 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk69
    > ><> wrote:

    >
    > >>A friend of mine currently has no landline and is thinking of buying a
    > >>laptop.

    >
    > >>I've suggested that she could get a broadband dongle to give her
    > >>internet access via the mobile phone network and also, potentially,
    > >>the ability to make VOIP calls.

    > >I would think that the best way to do this would be to get a mobile
    > >phone that would enable a softphone such as 'Fring' to be installed.
    > >If the phone also does wifi then that might be used sometimes when
    > >available.
    > >Sitting at a laptop or attaching an adapter somehow to a laptop isn't
    > >very elegant but it is possible. Can use softphones such as x-lite.

    >
    > Alternatively, get a mobile phone, and rather than also get a dongle,
    > get a cable to use the phone as a 'modem' to the laptop.
    >
    > then use the mobile phone to make calls on, as that's what it was
    > designed for.
    >
    > >>What sort of bandwidth does making a VOIP call actually use

    > >Varies according to codec. Look here:-
    > >http://www.erlang.com/bandwidth.html#SimpleCalculation

    >
    > A Standard call will use 64Kbps + an overhead of approx. 16Kbps. Using
    > the GSM codec will need about 13Kbps + the 16Kbps overhead - easilly
    > achievable, even with GPRS, let alone a "3g" connection.
    >
    > HOWEVER... Latency is rather high on mobile data connections. I have
    > placd calls over them, and while usable, the actualy user experience
    > isn't that good.
    >
    > >>and do the suppliers allow you to use their service for VOIP?

    > >I think that it varies. T-Mobile don't like it but I don't think that
    > >'3' mind as they already let people make calls via Skype.

    >
    > AIUI - the Skype calls go over their "normal" voice network, and are
    > converted to/from skype at their HQ ...
    >
    > So what I'm saying is: Keep It Simple, Stupid... Use a mobile phone for
    > making calls, and use the same mobile with a USB cable, or a data dongle
    > for Internet access, but don't mix them.
    >
    > Gordon


    Thanks for those replies.

    I failed to mention that most of the phone calls will be to Malaysia,
    Canada and Hong Kong - current cost is huge on a pay as you go mobile
    but on Sipgate it would be a max of 2.5p per minute to landlines or,
    of course, free to another VOIP user
     
    Murmansk69, Aug 26, 2008
    #4
  5. Murmansk69

    Dave Saville Guest

    On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:53:49 UTC, Murmansk69 <>
    wrote:

    > I failed to mention that most of the phone calls will be to Malaysia,
    > Canada and Hong Kong - current cost is huge on a pay as you go mobile
    > but on Sipgate it would be a max of 2.5p per minute to landlines or,
    > of course, free to another VOIP user


    Go via an 084* number and Canada is 0.5p - No idea how mobiles charge
    for 084* numbers though.

    --
    Regards
    Dave Saville

    NB Remove nospam. for good email address
     
    Dave Saville, Aug 26, 2008
    #5
  6. Dave Saville <> wrote:
    > Go via an 084* number and Canada is 0.5p - No idea how mobiles charge
    > for 084* numbers though.


    Minimum 15p/min I imagine, possibly more like 30p/min.

    What I've done is set up an Asterisk ringback system: ring 01xxx xxxxxx (a
    Sipgate number) from my mobile, it's engaged. Asterisk then rings me back,
    asks for a password and the number I want to dial. It then connects me.
    Both the inbound call to my mobile and the outbound international call are
    at cheap VOIP rates. Sadly it's usual that the mobile bit of the call costs
    more than the international bit :( But it's better than mobile rates.

    My Asterisk code is too rough and ready to release as yet, but perhaps you
    can find/code a similar system? It requires a machine on the internet
    somewhere - I use my wireless router (runs Linux and asterisk).

    Theo
     
    Theo Markettos, Aug 27, 2008
    #6
  7. In article <15D*>,
    Theo Markettos <> wrote:
    >Dave Saville <> wrote:
    >> Go via an 084* number and Canada is 0.5p - No idea how mobiles charge
    >> for 084* numbers though.

    >
    >Minimum 15p/min I imagine, possibly more like 30p/min.
    >
    >What I've done is set up an Asterisk ringback system: ring 01xxx xxxxxx (a
    >Sipgate number) from my mobile, it's engaged. Asterisk then rings me back,
    >asks for a password and the number I want to dial. It then connects me.
    >Both the inbound call to my mobile and the outbound international call are
    >at cheap VOIP rates. Sadly it's usual that the mobile bit of the call costs
    >more than the international bit :( But it's better than mobile rates.


    Why not dial into your asterisk box from mobile and have it answer,
    prompt for a PIN, then call DISA() ? (To get a dial-tone which you can
    then dial-out from)

    Then you'll dial-through to the target number, rather than pay for a
    sipgate call back to your mobile? (The call from the mobile to the 01x
    number being free/inclusive minutes?)

    Gordon
     
    Gordon Henderson, Aug 27, 2008
    #7
  8. Murmansk69

    Brian A Guest

    On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:59:03 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
    <> wrote:

    >In article <15D*>,
    >Theo Markettos <> wrote:
    >>Dave Saville <> wrote:
    >>> Go via an 084* number and Canada is 0.5p - No idea how mobiles charge
    >>> for 084* numbers though.

    >>
    >>Minimum 15p/min I imagine, possibly more like 30p/min.
    >>
    >>What I've done is set up an Asterisk ringback system: ring 01xxx xxxxxx (a
    >>Sipgate number) from my mobile, it's engaged. Asterisk then rings me back,
    >>asks for a password and the number I want to dial. It then connects me.
    >>Both the inbound call to my mobile and the outbound international call are
    >>at cheap VOIP rates. Sadly it's usual that the mobile bit of the call costs
    >>more than the international bit :( But it's better than mobile rates.

    >
    >Why not dial into your asterisk box from mobile and have it answer,
    >prompt for a PIN, then call DISA() ? (To get a dial-tone which you can
    >then dial-out from)
    >
    >Then you'll dial-through to the target number, rather than pay for a
    >sipgate call back to your mobile? (The call from the mobile to the 01x
    >number being free/inclusive minutes?)

    Another alternative, is to use a Betamax company as a callthrough via
    a geo number. JustVoip does it. If you call during your free minutes
    period the callout, for qualifying destinations, is free.
    Of course, you still have to make that mobile call and, on some
    tariffs, that isn't so cheap.


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    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    ---
     
    Brian A, Aug 27, 2008
    #8
  9. Brian A <> wrote:
    > On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:59:03 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Why not dial into your asterisk box from mobile and have it answer,
    > >prompt for a PIN, then call DISA() ? (To get a dial-tone which you can
    > >then dial-out from)
    > >
    > >Then you'll dial-through to the target number, rather than pay for a
    > >sipgate call back to your mobile? (The call from the mobile to the 01x
    > >number being free/inclusive minutes?)


    I'm on PAYG, so 15p/min for that bit as opposed to 6p/min for VOIP. And
    the system is really designed for calling from abroad where it costs $7/min
    to call the UK and $0.07/min for the UK to call by VOIP.

    > Another alternative, is to use a Betamax company as a callthrough via
    > a geo number. JustVoip does it. If you call during your free minutes
    > period the callout, for qualifying destinations, is free.
    > Of course, you still have to make that mobile call and, on some
    > tariffs, that isn't so cheap.


    Another alternative, if you have the data on your phone, is to use the
    feature of Betamax offerings where you can connect two numbers. It
    costs an extra 5p though, and needs a Java app (gsm.voipbuster.com,
    supposedly works on other Betamax brands too).

    Theo
     
    Theo Markettos, Aug 27, 2008
    #9
  10. Murmansk69

    Brian A Guest

    On 27 Aug 2008 13:20:20 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
    <> wrote:

    >Brian A <> wrote:
    >> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:59:03 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Why not dial into your asterisk box from mobile and have it answer,
    >> >prompt for a PIN, then call DISA() ? (To get a dial-tone which you can
    >> >then dial-out from)
    >> >
    >> >Then you'll dial-through to the target number, rather than pay for a
    >> >sipgate call back to your mobile? (The call from the mobile to the 01x
    >> >number being free/inclusive minutes?)

    >
    >I'm on PAYG, so 15p/min for that bit as opposed to 6p/min for VOIP. And
    >the system is really designed for calling from abroad where it costs $7/min
    >to call the UK and $0.07/min for the UK to call by VOIP.
    >

    ASDA (Vodafone Network) PAYG 8p/min, Ikea's FamilyMobile (on T-Mobile
    Network) 9p/min (min charge is for a full minute then charged per
    second).
    >> Another alternative, is to use a Betamax company as a callthrough via
    >> a geo number. JustVoip does it. If you call during your free minutes
    >> period the callout, for qualifying destinations, is free.
    >> Of course, you still have to make that mobile call and, on some
    >> tariffs, that isn't so cheap.

    >
    >Another alternative, if you have the data on your phone, is to use the
    >feature of Betamax offerings where you can connect two numbers. It
    >costs an extra 5p though, and needs a Java app (gsm.voipbuster.com,
    >supposedly works on other Betamax brands too).

    Yet another, if wanting to use using callback with providers of your
    choice: You can use Voxalot but it needs to be triggered by a web link
    (simple page designed for WAP). Saves on the electricity bill to use
    Voxalot but have to pay an annual fee to use the non-free voxalot
    services. Having said all that it probably isn't as much fun as having
    your own PBX.



    ---
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    ---
     
    Brian A, Aug 27, 2008
    #10
  11. In article <05D*>,
    Theo Markettos <> wrote:
    >Brian A <> wrote:
    >> On Wed, 27 Aug 2008 06:59:03 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Why not dial into your asterisk box from mobile and have it answer,
    >> >prompt for a PIN, then call DISA() ? (To get a dial-tone which you can
    >> >then dial-out from)
    >> >
    >> >Then you'll dial-through to the target number, rather than pay for a
    >> >sipgate call back to your mobile? (The call from the mobile to the 01x
    >> >number being free/inclusive minutes?)

    >
    >I'm on PAYG, so 15p/min for that bit as opposed to 6p/min for VOIP. And
    >the system is really designed for calling from abroad where it costs $7/min
    >to call the UK and $0.07/min for the UK to call by VOIP.


    Ah yes. Indeed!

    Gordon
     
    Gordon Henderson, Aug 27, 2008
    #11
  12. Brian A <> wrote:
    > On 27 Aug 2008 13:20:20 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
    > <> wrote:
    > >I'm on PAYG, so 15p/min for that bit as opposed to 6p/min for VOIP. And
    > >the system is really designed for calling from abroad where it costs $7/min
    > >to call the UK and $0.07/min for the UK to call by VOIP.
    > >

    > ASDA (Vodafone Network) PAYG 8p/min, Ikea's FamilyMobile (on T-Mobile
    > Network) 9p/min (min charge is for a full minute then charged per
    > second).


    I'm well aware of this upcoming price war - just waiting to see what will
    happen before I jump :)

    > Yet another, if wanting to use using callback with providers of your
    > choice: You can use Voxalot but it needs to be triggered by a web link
    > (simple page designed for WAP). Saves on the electricity bill to use
    > Voxalot but have to pay an annual fee to use the non-free voxalot
    > services. Having said all that it probably isn't as much fun as having
    > your own PBX.


    Yet another yet another: liberailvoip.it has a free callback function where
    you can use VOIP providers of your choice and activate it by an incoming
    call. You have to navigate their website in Italian (not too hard - there
    are guides in English on the web). But the annoying thing is it only works
    if you've logged into their website in the past 7 days. I used this before
    I rolled my own system.

    Theo
     
    Theo Markettos, Aug 27, 2008
    #12
  13. Murmansk69 <> wrote:
    > I failed to mention that most of the phone calls will be to Malaysia,
    > Canada and Hong Kong - current cost is huge on a pay as you go mobile
    > but on Sipgate it would be a max of 2.5p per minute to landlines or,
    > of course, free to another VOIP user


    You can probably do better my using a special international SIM, such as:
    http://www.nomi-mobile.com/nomi_rates.php

    It's possible mobile operators like Three deliberately inject jitter and delay
    to stymie using their 3G data offerings for VOIP.

    Theo
     
    Theo Markettos, Aug 27, 2008
    #13
  14. Murmansk69

    Brian A Guest

    On 27 Aug 2008 20:59:23 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
    <> wrote:

    >Brian A <> wrote:
    >> On 27 Aug 2008 13:20:20 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
    >> <> wrote:
    >> >I'm on PAYG, so 15p/min for that bit as opposed to 6p/min for VOIP. And
    >> >the system is really designed for calling from abroad where it costs $7/min
    >> >to call the UK and $0.07/min for the UK to call by VOIP.
    >> >

    >> ASDA (Vodafone Network) PAYG 8p/min, Ikea's FamilyMobile (on T-Mobile
    >> Network) 9p/min (min charge is for a full minute then charged per
    >> second).

    >
    >I'm well aware of this upcoming price war - just waiting to see what will
    >happen before I jump :)
    >
    >> Yet another, if wanting to use using callback with providers of your
    >> choice: You can use Voxalot but it needs to be triggered by a web link
    >> (simple page designed for WAP). Saves on the electricity bill to use
    >> Voxalot but have to pay an annual fee to use the non-free voxalot
    >> services. Having said all that it probably isn't as much fun as having
    >> your own PBX.

    >
    >Yet another yet another: liberailvoip.it has a free callback function where
    >you can use VOIP providers of your choice and activate it by an incoming
    >call. You have to navigate their website in Italian (not too hard - there
    >are guides in English on the web). But the annoying thing is it only works
    >if you've logged into their website in the past 7 days. I used this before
    >I rolled my own system.
    >
    >Theo

    Registering with liberailvoip does pose a problem.
    It needs a 'Codice Fiscale' and it doesn't seem to accept any old
    rubbish - so I assume you have an official one.
    Finding a CAP was easy but needing a 'Codice Fiscale' seems to
    prohibit me from registering.


    ---
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    ---
     
    Brian A, Aug 28, 2008
    #14
  15. Brian A <> wrote:
    > Registering with liberailvoip does pose a problem.
    > It needs a 'Codice Fiscale' and it doesn't seem to accept any old
    > rubbish - so I assume you have an official one.
    > Finding a CAP was easy but needing a 'Codice Fiscale' seems to
    > prohibit me from registering.


    Easy. See the bottom of:
    http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/italy.html

    Here's a full guide on how to set up callback with Libera Il Voip:
    http://scopezoom.com/guide8.htm

    Theo
     
    Theo Markettos, Aug 28, 2008
    #15
  16. Murmansk69

    Brian A Guest

    On 28 Aug 2008 12:43:42 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
    <> wrote:

    >Brian A <> wrote:
    >> Registering with liberailvoip does pose a problem.
    >> It needs a 'Codice Fiscale' and it doesn't seem to accept any old
    >> rubbish - so I assume you have an official one.
    >> Finding a CAP was easy but needing a 'Codice Fiscale' seems to
    >> prohibit me from registering.

    >
    >Easy. See the bottom of:
    >http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/italy.html
    >
    >Here's a full guide on how to set up callback with Libera Il Voip:
    >http://scopezoom.com/guide8.htm
    >
    >Theo

    Thanks Theo, I'll check it out!

    ---
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    ---
     
    Brian A, Aug 28, 2008
    #16
  17. Murmansk69

    Brian A Guest

    On Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:44:32 GMT, Brian A
    <> wrote:

    >On 28 Aug 2008 12:43:42 +0100 (BST), Theo Markettos
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Brian A <> wrote:
    >>> Registering with liberailvoip does pose a problem.
    >>> It needs a 'Codice Fiscale' and it doesn't seem to accept any old
    >>> rubbish - so I assume you have an official one.
    >>> Finding a CAP was easy but needing a 'Codice Fiscale' seems to
    >>> prohibit me from registering.

    >>
    >>Easy. See the bottom of:
    >>http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/italy.html
    >>
    >>Here's a full guide on how to set up callback with Libera Il Voip:
    >>http://scopezoom.com/guide8.htm
    >>
    >>Theo

    >Thanks Theo, I'll check it out!

    Hopefully, Theo, you'll see this.
    Did you try anything out on Libera il voip in regard to Skype?
    I tried both forwarding to, and speed dial and neither seems to work
    at all - just silence. I did enable transfers in 'REGOLE INTERNI'
    also.

    ---
    Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
    ---
     
    Brian A, Aug 30, 2008
    #17
  18. Brian A <> wrote:
    > Hopefully, Theo, you'll see this.
    > Did you try anything out on Libera il voip in regard to Skype?
    > I tried both forwarding to, and speed dial and neither seems to work
    > at all - just silence. I did enable transfers in 'REGOLE INTERNI'
    > also.


    I haven't tried it with Skype. Were you trying to use a Skype-in number, or
    do SIP directly to Skype (do they have a SIP-in gateway)?

    AFAIK services like LiV just do the control channel. In other words they
    just link the two VOIP services, and don't see any voice traffic themselves.
    So I'd test whether your VOIP service can call Skype-in from a softphone,
    and also whether you can call normal numbers via LiV. I'd have thought any
    Skype specifics would be down to the VOIP provider, not to LiV.

    Of course it's possible that something is up with the LiV config (either
    yours or theirs) but I can't see how this would break only Skype.

    I've only tried it with smslisto.com but there it worked fine (once I'd got
    the config right with the help of the guide I linked to).

    Can you get a free trial from another VOIP provider to eliminate that?

    Theo
     
    Theo Markettos, Sep 9, 2008
    #18
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