Make your own NTFS DOS boot Disk

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Gregory Parker, Nov 8, 2003.

  1. Just found this


    4 quick and easy steps to create a boot disk (floppy or CD) that natively
    "knows" NTFS, and that can let you access an NTFS hard drive without having to
    resort to an NTFS driver on a DOS disk.

    format a: /q /u /v:XPBoot

    xcopy /h %SYSTEMDRIVE%\ntldr a: xcopy /h %SYSTEMDRIVE%\ntdetect.com a: xcopy
    /h %SYSTEMDRIVE%\boot.ini a:
     
    Gregory Parker, Nov 8, 2003
    #1
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  2. Gregory  Parker

    Enkidu Guest

    On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:56:27 +1300, Gregory Parker
    <> wrote:
    >
    >4 quick and easy steps to create a boot disk (floppy or CD) that natively
    >"knows" NTFS, and that can let you access an NTFS hard drive without having to
    >resort to an NTFS driver on a DOS disk.
    >
    >format a: /q /u /v:XPBoot
    >
    >xcopy /h %SYSTEMDRIVE%\ntldr a:
    >xcopy /h %SYSTEMDRIVE%\ntdetect.com a:
    >xcopy /h %SYSTEMDRIVE%\boot.ini a:
    >

    That's bull. It knows nothing about NTFS. The resulting boot disk is
    merely a disk containing the necessary files for the booting system to
    find the OS on the hard disk and boot from it. It will only be of use
    if you have screwed the bootloader program on the hard disk, or if you
    have made the boot disk and subsequently damaged boot.ini, ntldr, or
    ntdetect.com.

    If the OS on the hard disk is damaged in any way, this disk will not
    help. It boots the OS on the HDD.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 8, 2003
    #2
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  3. Gregory Parker wrote:
    > Just found this
    >
    >
    > 4 quick and easy steps to create a boot disk (floppy or CD) that
    > natively "knows" NTFS, and that can let you access an NTFS hard drive


    Absolutely not. If you want to be able to do this, use Sysinternals'
    EXCELLENT free read-only NTFS driver for DOS. <100k and you can run it from
    your autoexec.bat.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Nov 9, 2003
    #3
  4. Gregory  Parker

    John Guest

    On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:00:46 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    <> wrote:

    >Gregory Parker wrote:
    >> Just found this
    >>
    >>
    >> 4 quick and easy steps to create a boot disk (floppy or CD) that
    >> natively "knows" NTFS, and that can let you access an NTFS hard drive

    >
    >Absolutely not. If you want to be able to do this, use Sysinternals'
    >EXCELLENT free read-only NTFS driver for DOS. <100k and you can run it from
    >your autoexec.bat.
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Nicholas Sherlock

    True, and I've used the write version to write to NTFS from a floppy (
    replaced a corrupt sys driver)
     
    John, Nov 9, 2003
    #4
  5. Gregory  Parker

    Brendan Guest

    On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:00:46 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    <> wrote:

    >> 4 quick and easy steps to create a boot disk (floppy or CD) that
    >> natively "knows" NTFS, and that can let you access an NTFS hard drive

    >
    >Absolutely not. If you want to be able to do this, use Sysinternals'
    >EXCELLENT free read-only NTFS driver for DOS. <100k and you can run it from
    >your autoexec.bat.


    As I have repeatedly said, Barts PE builder is also free, reads AND
    WRITES NTFS, and allows you to run windows apps in a stripped down
    windows GUI. CD only version of windows.

    Sysinternals free ntfs driver is of nearly zero use when it comes to
    actually repairing an ntfs system.

    Hello ? Anyone awake out there ???



    ....Brendan
     
    Brendan, Nov 9, 2003
    #5
  6. Gregory  Parker

    T.N.O. Guest

    Brendan wrote:
    > As I have repeatedly said, Barts PE builder is also free, reads AND
    > WRITES NTFS, and allows you to run windows apps in a stripped down
    > windows GUI. CD only version of windows.


    > Hello ? Anyone awake out there ???


    I am, and I have got one, I agree... I'm seeing what else I can add to
    the CD, very cool.
     
    T.N.O., Nov 9, 2003
    #6
  7. Gregory  Parker

    Brian Tozer Guest

    Barts PE Builder

    Brendan wrote:

    > As I have repeatedly said, Barts PE builder is also free, reads AND
    > WRITES NTFS, and allows you to run windows apps in a stripped down
    > windows GUI. CD only version of windows.


    > Hello ? Anyone awake out there ???


    I have downloaded this, and created the CD.
    I would be very interested in the types of situations that one would use
    such a disk to deal with.

    BTW, are you Brendan T. of Oamaru, and of water-cooling renown, or another
    Brendan?
    Brian Tozer
     
    Brian Tozer, Nov 9, 2003
    #7
  8. Brendan wrote:
    > On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:00:46 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>> 4 quick and easy steps to create a boot disk (floppy or CD) that
    >>> natively "knows" NTFS, and that can let you access an NTFS hard
    >>> drive

    >>
    >> Absolutely not. If you want to be able to do this, use Sysinternals'
    >> EXCELLENT free read-only NTFS driver for DOS. <100k and you can run
    >> it from your autoexec.bat.

    >
    > As I have repeatedly said, Barts PE builder is also free, reads AND
    > WRITES NTFS, and allows you to run windows apps in a stripped down
    > windows GUI. CD only version of windows.
    >
    > Sysinternals free ntfs driver is of nearly zero use when it comes to
    > actually repairing an ntfs system.
    >
    > Hello ? Anyone awake out there ???


    Bart's PE builder is NOT going to fit on a floppy.. :)

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Nov 9, 2003
    #8
  9. Gregory  Parker

    Mainlander Guest

    Re: Barts PE Builder

    In article <bom3ms$l39$>, says...
    > Brendan wrote:
    >
    > > As I have repeatedly said, Barts PE builder is also free, reads AND
    > > WRITES NTFS, and allows you to run windows apps in a stripped down
    > > windows GUI. CD only version of windows.

    >
    > > Hello ? Anyone awake out there ???

    >
    > I have downloaded this, and created the CD.
    > I would be very interested in the types of situations that one would use
    > such a disk to deal with.
    >
    > BTW, are you Brendan T. of Oamaru, and of water-cooling renown, or another
    > Brendan?


    He is avatar :)
     
    Mainlander, Nov 10, 2003
    #9
  10. Gregory  Parker

    Brendan Guest

    Re: Barts PE Builder

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 08:14:34 +1300, "Brian Tozer"
    <> wrote:

    >Brendan wrote:
    >
    >> As I have repeatedly said, Barts PE builder is also free, reads AND
    >> WRITES NTFS, and allows you to run windows apps in a stripped down
    >> windows GUI. CD only version of windows.

    >
    >> Hello ? Anyone awake out there ???

    >
    >I have downloaded this, and created the CD.
    >I would be very interested in the types of situations that one would use
    >such a disk to deal with.


    When your system is formatted with NTFS - as it should be, due to
    manifest benefits like not having to rescan the filesystem if your
    computer crashes, etc, etc.

    You are left with a situation where IF reinstalling the OS becomes
    necessary, you have to format the whole C: drive. Losing anything else
    you had on there.

    With the above bootable CD, you can instead just delete the windows
    directory and any other directories necessary and then reinstall.

    Additionally, you can use something like winrar to restore a backup of
    the windows dir, bypassing a lot of reinstall time.

    This is not soo necessary for people who have their system divided
    into partitions by catagory - if they left the c: drive as OS only -
    but this partitioning up of drive space has it's own cost: namely,
    however big you make the partitions, sooner or later one of them is
    going to be too small and put your whole system out of kilter.
    Additionally, there is no great benefit security wise: viruses aren't
    stopped at partition borders, and a failed HD or scrambled partition
    table - the most common problems - will kill it all anyway. You also
    gain no advanatge by having a seperate swap partition.

    So I tend towards one big partition now that I have the above bootable
    CD.

    >BTW, are you Brendan T. of Oamaru, and of water-cooling renown,


    Guilty as accused, Your Honour :)



    ....Brendan
     
    Brendan, Nov 10, 2003
    #10
  11. Gregory  Parker

    Brendan Guest

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 07:02:35 +1300, "T.N.O."
    <> wrote:

    >> As I have repeatedly said, Barts PE builder is also free, reads AND
    >> WRITES NTFS, and allows you to run windows apps in a stripped down
    >> windows GUI. CD only version of windows.

    >
    >> Hello ? Anyone awake out there ???

    >
    >I am, and I have got one, I agree... I'm seeing what else I can add to
    >the CD, very cool.


    I'll be adding winrar to it when next I am bored enough ;)



    ....Brendan
     
    Brendan, Nov 10, 2003
    #11
  12. Gregory  Parker

    Brendan Guest

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:39:32 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    <> wrote:

    >Brendan wrote:
    >> On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:00:46 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>> 4 quick and easy steps to create a boot disk (floppy or CD) that
    >>>> natively "knows" NTFS, and that can let you access an NTFS hard
    >>>> drive
    >>>
    >>> Absolutely not. If you want to be able to do this, use Sysinternals'
    >>> EXCELLENT free read-only NTFS driver for DOS. <100k and you can run
    >>> it from your autoexec.bat.

    >>
    >> As I have repeatedly said, Barts PE builder is also free, reads AND
    >> WRITES NTFS, and allows you to run windows apps in a stripped down
    >> windows GUI. CD only version of windows.
    >>
    >> Sysinternals free ntfs driver is of nearly zero use when it comes to
    >> actually repairing an ntfs system.
    >>
    >> Hello ? Anyone awake out there ???

    >
    >Bart's PE builder is NOT going to fit on a floppy.. :)


    No, but then no one said it had to :)

    And I suggest that any machine without a bootable cd drive is also
    likly old enough it is not running NTFS either - so a dos disk will
    do.



    ....Brendan
     
    Brendan, Nov 10, 2003
    #12
  13. Brendan wrote:
    > On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:39:32 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    > <> wrote:
    >>
    >> Bart's PE builder is NOT going to fit on a floppy.. :)

    >
    > No, but then no one said it had to :)
    >
    > And I suggest that any machine without a bootable cd drive is also
    > likly old enough it is not running NTFS either - so a dos disk will
    > do.


    True, and the CD is truly excellent - now I can boot, use Nero to burn
    backups of things, then junk the failing HDD.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Nov 10, 2003
    #13
  14. Gregory  Parker

    Brian Tozer Guest

    Re: Barts PE Builder

    Brendan wrote:

    > So I tend towards one big partition now that I have the above bootable
    > CD.


    The system that I have finally implemented for disaster recovery, which
    seems to be functioning perfectly, is to have a Master and a Slave HD.
    The Master is partitioned into 12 gigs as C for XP, and the rest for data.
    The Slave is partitioned into a partition for saving images of C and the
    rest another partition.
    I use Acronis TrueImage for creating Images of C and restoring them.
    It is a dream to use.
    Now I sleep easy at night.

    Brian Tozer
     
    Brian Tozer, Nov 11, 2003
    #14
  15. Gregory  Parker

    The Flash Guest

    Re: Barts PE Builder

    > This is not soo necessary for people who have their system divided
    > into partitions by catagory - if they left the c: drive as OS only -
    > but this partitioning up of drive space has it's own cost: namely,
    > however big you make the partitions, sooner or later one of them is
    > going to be too small and put your whole system out of kilter.


    Use folder redirecton on the drive, I forget MS fancy word but it work like
    this.

    Old C:\something = C:\something
    rename C:\something C:\other
    Diskwizard up an NTFS drive (Advanced) and mount it in an ntfs folder called
    C:\something.
    Copy all your data from C:\other into C:\something (which is now a partition
    of any size you have room for)

    (Don't try this on your winnt / windows directory and you need to use a bit
    of care if you do it on your program files folder (boot in safemde and
    change the order a little)

    Works a treat.

    I actually go the other way, I have a single huge partion on one disk with
    folder called edrive,fdrive,jdrive.

    I then run a batch file using the following
    subst e: d:\edrive
    subst f: d:\fdrive
    subst j: d:\jdrive

    this works a treat, I have been doing this for years (Dos 5 days?) and use
    it as a way to trial application patches as it takes like 60 seconds to
    subst a different directory to a drive letter, and when you get a server its
    easy to map a drive and shift the data...

    Yes linux and unix guys I know NT redirection is like 20 years behind what
    you guys can do but this still gets the job done here.
     
    The Flash, Nov 11, 2003
    #15
  16. Gregory  Parker

    Brendan Guest

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:36:59 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    <> wrote:

    >> And I suggest that any machine without a bootable cd drive is also
    >> likly old enough it is not running NTFS either - so a dos disk will
    >> do.

    >
    >True, and the CD is truly excellent - now I can boot, use Nero to burn
    >backups of things, then junk the failing HDD.


    Exactly. Or ghost it to the new HD. (ghost does NTFS doesn't it ?).
    WinRAR also.

    It's a real gem - he'd be able to charge $200 for it and people STILL
    call it a bargain.

    The man is a saint :)



    ....Brendan
     
    Brendan, Nov 11, 2003
    #16
  17. Gregory  Parker

    Brendan Guest

    Re: Barts PE Builder

    On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:12:22 +1300, "Brian Tozer"
    <> wrote:

    >Brendan wrote:
    >
    >> So I tend towards one big partition now that I have the above bootable
    >> CD.

    >
    >The system that I have finally implemented for disaster recovery, which
    >seems to be functioning perfectly, is to have a Master and a Slave HD.


    Two physically seperate HD's can be an advantage.

    You can use the second one for backups - as you do - and disable it in
    the BIOS when not needed (preventing viruses from getting it, or
    accidental deletion).

    You can also use part of it from the swap file.

    >The Master is partitioned into 12 gigs as C for XP, and the rest for data.
    >The Slave is partitioned into a partition for saving images of C and the
    >rest another partition.


    The only problem with that is that eventually, one of them partitions
    will be full while another is half used. Bloody annoying.

    But likely necessary if you are using a disk imaging problem as you
    say you do - it'd wipe out any new files you wanted to keep upon a
    restore.

    >I use Acronis TrueImage for creating Images of C and restoring them.
    >It is a dream to use.


    Have to look it up.

    >Now I sleep easy at night.


    Always a bonus :)



    ....Brendan
     
    Brendan, Nov 11, 2003
    #17
  18. Gregory  Parker

    Brendan Guest

    Re: Barts PE Builder

    On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 00:24:44 -0800, "The Flash"
    <> wrote:

    >> This is not soo necessary for people who have their system divided
    >> into partitions by catagory - if they left the c: drive as OS only -
    >> but this partitioning up of drive space has it's own cost: namely,
    >> however big you make the partitions, sooner or later one of them is
    >> going to be too small and put your whole system out of kilter.

    >
    >Use folder redirecton on the drive, I forget MS fancy word but it work like
    >this.
    >
    >Old C:\something = C:\something
    >rename C:\something C:\other
    >Diskwizard up an NTFS drive (Advanced) and mount it in an ntfs folder called
    >C:\something.
    >Copy all your data from C:\other into C:\something (which is now a partition
    >of any size you have room for)
    >
    >(Don't try this on your winnt / windows directory and you need to use a bit
    >of care if you do it on your program files folder (boot in safemde and
    >change the order a little)
    >
    >Works a treat.


    I tried that a while ago, but found that:

    a. XP wasn't happy with me moving OS files out of 'program files' to
    elsewhere, even though 'c:\program files' was aliased to d:\. I guess
    not everything knows about the aliasing.

    b. You cannot redirect one directory to another directory - this makes
    it bloody useless. It means you have to dedicate one whole partition
    to the purpose, or have your files in a bloody mess. Stupid Microsoft.
    And your partition better STAY big enough... You could use subst I
    guess (havn't tried it myself), but it's pretty cludgy and not elegant
    = bound to bite you someday.

    >I actually go the other way, I have a single huge partion on one disk with
    >folder called edrive,fdrive,jdrive.
    >
    >I then run a batch file using the following
    >subst e: d:\edrive
    >subst f: d:\fdrive
    >subst j: d:\jdrive
    >
    >this works a treat, I have been doing this for years (Dos 5 days?) and use
    >it as a way to trial application patches as it takes like 60 seconds to
    >subst a different directory to a drive letter, and when you get a server its
    >easy to map a drive and shift the data...
    >
    >Yes linux and unix guys I know NT redirection is like 20 years behind what
    >you guys can do but this still gets the job done here.


    And finally, it seems to rely on your current OS install remaining
    good. E.g. frag your OS, and all your carefully crafted aliases and
    schemes have to be re-done.

    It's an interesting scheme though, and I'd be right behind it IF ms
    allowed you to alias a directory to ANOTHER directory. THAT Would be
    cool. Especially if it didn't insist upon empty directories too AND it
    recorded this in part of the filesystem, NOT part of the bloody
    registry. Transparent redirection with appending search path.

    Your right: other OS's had this stuff in ancient times.



    ....Brendan
     
    Brendan, Nov 11, 2003
    #18
  19. Gregory  Parker

    Enkidu Guest

    On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:37:56 +1300, Brendan <corum.usenet@myrealbox
    (dot com)> wrote:
    >
    >Exactly. Or ghost it to the new HD. (ghost does NTFS doesn't it ?).
    >WinRAR also.
    >

    As far as I recall Ghost will back up an NTFS partition, but can only
    create a ghost image on a FAT one, which limits the size of the image.
    Can also ghost to a CD of course. But it's been a while since I played
    with it.

    Cheers,

    Cliff


    --

    The complete lack of evidence is the surest sign
    that the conspiracy is working.
     
    Enkidu, Nov 12, 2003
    #19
  20. Gregory  Parker

    Muzz Guest

    "Enkidu" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:37:56 +1300, Brendan <corum.usenet@myrealbox
    > (dot com)> wrote:
    > >
    > >Exactly. Or ghost it to the new HD. (ghost does NTFS doesn't it ?).
    > >WinRAR also.
    > >

    > As far as I recall Ghost will back up an NTFS partition, but can only
    > create a ghost image on a FAT one, which limits the size of the image.


    *SNIP*

    AFAIK this isn't a limitation of ghost, but a limitation of the OS it's
    running under - default is PC-DOS.
     
    Muzz, Nov 12, 2003
    #20
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