"Made In Japan" selling cache

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by RichA, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. RichA

    RichA Guest

    Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
    companies running things have enough control over production in those
    Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.

    http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1
     
    RichA, Nov 25, 2011
    #1
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  2. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    RichA <> wrote:

    >Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    >their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
    >companies running things have enough control over production in those
    >Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    >and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    >people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
    >
    >http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1



    Perhaps you meant "cachet"?

    I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    from superior Western products. 'Made in Hong Kong' signified cheap
    and nasty plastic junk, and the only things we imported from China
    seemed to be food and textiles.

    But all that has changed. Made in Japan is a selling point, and there
    is nothing wrong with top brand photo equipment made in China or
    Thailand.

    'Made in Germany' still holds some value. Leica is keen to emphasise
    that its cameras are 'Made in Germany', however most manufacturing is
    done in Portugal, with final assembly and finishing in Germany.
     
    Bruce, Nov 25, 2011
    #2
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  3. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Nov 25, 9:36 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    > RichA <> wrote:
    > >Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    > >their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren.  Even if the
    > >companies running things have enough control over production in those
    > >Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    > >and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    > >people's mouths.  Made in Japan still stands for something.

    >
    > >http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1

    >
    > Perhaps you meant "cachet"?


    Yes, I thought it was cache with the French accent!!
    >
    > I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    > from superior Western products.  'Made in Hong Kong' signified cheap
    > and nasty plastic junk, and the only things we imported from China
    > seemed to be food and textiles.


    Japanese instituted a policy that forbade bad goods from being
    export. They did that in the late 1960's or early 1970's. By then,
    they'd just about taken over the electronics market completely.

    > But all that has changed.  Made in Japan is a selling point, and there
    > is nothing wrong with top brand photo equipment made in China or
    > Thailand.


    How do we know that? Are all the problems experienced by camera
    owners due to design flaws? Remember that G2 I think it was that had
    a body gap you could see inside it from?

    > 'Made in Germany' still holds some value.  Leica is keen to emphasise
    > that its cameras are 'Made in Germany', however most manufacturing is
    > done in Portugal, with final assembly and finishing in Germany.


    Yes, was it Zeiss who established that channel for Contax in the
    1970's?
    I think for Leica lenses (old and new), the hierarchy is:
    Made in West Germany
    Made in Canada
    Made in...?
     
    RichA, Nov 25, 2011
    #3
  4. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    RichA <> wrote:

    >On Nov 25, 9:36 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    >> RichA <> wrote:
    >> >Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    >> >their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren.  Even if the
    >> >companies running things have enough control over production in those
    >> >Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    >> >and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    >> >people's mouths.  Made in Japan still stands for something.

    >>
    >> >http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1

    >>
    >> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?

    >
    >Yes, I thought it was cache with the French accent!!



    In French, "cache" would be pronounced to rhyme with "cash" in
    English. I thought that, being Canadian, you would probably have
    learned French at school. :-(

    >
    >> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    >> from superior Western products.  'Made in Hong Kong' signified cheap
    >> and nasty plastic junk, and the only things we imported from China
    >> seemed to be food and textiles.

    >
    >Japanese instituted a policy that forbade bad goods from being
    >export. They did that in the late 1960's or early 1970's. By then,
    >they'd just about taken over the electronics market completely.



    I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses. I never
    knew what they meant, but I gather they were supposed to inspire
    belief in Japanese quality. But as the saying goes, handsome is as
    handsome does, and that sticker did nothing for the optical quality of
    anything I bought.


    >> But all that has changed.  Made in Japan is a selling point, and there
    >> is nothing wrong with top brand photo equipment made in China or
    >> Thailand.

    >
    >How do we know that? Are all the problems experienced by camera
    >owners due to design flaws? Remember that G2 I think it was that had
    >a body gap you could see inside it from?



    You seem to believe that nothing bad ever came out of Japan, and that
    everything made in China is inferior. My experience is that Japan
    produces some fine products and some junk. I suppose China does too,
    perhaps in different proportions - there is a lot of new manufacturing
    capacity in China, and a less experienced workforce, so perhaps China
    lags some way behind Japan. But buyers of top brand products made in
    China should be fairly safe.


    >> 'Made in Germany' still holds some value.  Leica is keen to emphasise
    >> that its cameras are 'Made in Germany', however most manufacturing is
    >> done in Portugal, with final assembly and finishing in Germany.

    >
    >Yes, was it Zeiss who established that channel for Contax in the
    >1970's?



    The Zeiss/Contax story is complex. Basically Carl Zeiss gave a
    limited license for the Zeiss and Contax brands to Kyocera provided
    certain standards were met.


    >I think for Leica lenses (old and new), the hierarchy is:
    >Made in West Germany
    >Made in Canada
    >Made in...?



    It is more complex than that. Leitz shifted production to Canada to
    ensure the survival of the company. The Canadian government provided
    generous assistance in setting up manufacturing facilities and orders
    from the military. The relationship was fruitful and Leitz Canada
    made some of the best lenses that the company had ever produced,
    notably the Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.0 and I think also the Telyt-R 180mm
    f/3.4. The quality of the Leitz Canada products was very high.

    When Portugal joined the European Union in 1973 there were excellent
    incentives offered to companies wishing to establish new manufacturing
    facilities and take on Portuguese workers, as unemployment was high.
    So Leitz started making some equipment at Vila Nova de Famalicão,
    Braga, Portugal from 1973.

    Over a period of years, equipment that was formerly made in Canada
    drifted back to Europe, some to Solms, Germany and some to Portugal.
    Almost everything for the M and S ranges is finished in Germany and
    the German content is claimed to be sufficient to justify the label
    "Made in Germany".
     
    Bruce, Nov 25, 2011
    #4
  5. RichA

    RichA Guest

    On Nov 25, 2:23 pm, Bruce <> wrote:
    > RichA <> wrote:
    > >On Nov 25, 9:36 am, Bruce <> wrote:
    > >> RichA <> wrote:
    > >> >Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    > >> >their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren.  Even if the
    > >> >companies running things have enough control over production in those
    > >> >Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    > >> >and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    > >> >people's mouths.  Made in Japan still stands for something.

    >
    > >> >http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1

    >
    > >> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?

    >
    > >Yes, I thought it was cache with the French accent!!

    >
    > In French, "cache" would be pronounced to rhyme with "cash" in
    > English.  I thought that, being Canadian, you would probably have
    > learned French at school.  :-(
    >
    >
    >
    > >> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    > >> from superior Western products.  'Made in Hong Kong' signified cheap
    > >> and nasty plastic junk, and the only things we imported from China
    > >> seemed to be food and textiles.

    >
    > >Japanese instituted a policy that forbade bad goods from being
    > >export.  They did that in the late 1960's or early 1970's.  By then,
    > >they'd just about taken over the electronics market completely.

    >
    > I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses.  I never
    > knew what they meant, but I gather they were supposed to inspire
    > belief in Japanese quality.  But as the saying goes, handsome is as
    > handsome does, and that sticker did nothing for the optical quality of
    > anything I bought.
    >
    > >> But all that has changed.  Made in Japan is a selling point, and there
    > >> is nothing wrong with top brand photo equipment made in China or
    > >> Thailand.

    >
    > >How do we know that?  Are all the problems experienced by camera
    > >owners due to design flaws?  Remember that G2 I think it was that had
    > >a body gap you could see inside it from?

    >
    > You seem to believe that nothing bad ever came out of Japan, and that
    > everything made in China is inferior.  My experience is that Japan
    > produces some fine products and some junk.  I suppose China does too,
    > perhaps in different proportions - there is a lot of new manufacturing
    > capacity in China, and a less experienced workforce, so perhaps China
    > lags some way behind Japan.  But buyers of top brand products made in
    > China should be fairly safe.


    "Different proportions" could mean 50:50 or 75:25 or 99:1.

    Which top brand products come from China? None of the camaras for
    sure.
     
    RichA, Nov 25, 2011
    #5
  6. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    RichA <> wrote:
    >
    >Which top brand products come from China? None of the camaras for
    >sure.



    Nikon 1 Series.
     
    Bruce, Nov 25, 2011
    #6
  7. RichA

    ASCII Guest

    Bruce wrote:
    >
    >I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses.


    I recall the stickers with "JIS" on them
    and we thought it meant to signify
    "Japanese Imported Shit"
    Then Sony and some others totally reversed that image
    to where it now suggests excellence.
     
    ASCII, Nov 26, 2011
    #7
  8. RichA

    Guest Guest

    RichA <> wrote:
    > Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    > their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
    > companies running things have enough control over production in those
    > Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    > and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    > people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
    >
    > http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1


    Yeah, radiation poisoning.

    Just kidding
    a classic Deathy joke.
     
    Guest, Nov 26, 2011
    #8
  9. On 11/25/11 PDT 6:36 AM, Bruce wrote:
    > RichA<> wrote:
    >
    >> Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    >> their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
    >> companies running things have enough control over production in those
    >> Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    >> and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    >> people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
    >>
    >> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1


    > Perhaps you meant "cachet"?


    Indeed. But you could have a cache of goods with cachet hidden away
    somewhere!

    > I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    > from superior Western products.


    Absolutely.

    There was a story in the 50's that some Japanese companies formed a town
    called "USA" in Japan so they could stamp "Made in USA" on the ratty
    goods. No idea whether it was true or not, and don't care enough to
    research an answer.

    --
    Coach: "Are you just ignorant, or merely apathetic?"
    Player: "Coach, I don't know, and I don't care."
     
    John McWilliams, Nov 26, 2011
    #9
  10. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/25/2011 8:19 PM, ASCII wrote:
    > Bruce wrote:
    >>
    >> I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses.

    >
    > I recall the stickers with "JIS" on them
    > and we thought it meant to signify
    > "Japanese Imported Shit"
    > Then Sony and some others totally reversed that image
    > to where it now suggests excellence.



    IIRC about that time a lot of Japanese crap was labeled "Made in Usa."
    Usa is a city located in Japan.

    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa,_%C5%8Cita>

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Nov 27, 2011
    #10
  11. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/26/2011 12:27 PM, John McWilliams wrote:
    > On 11/25/11 PDT 6:36 AM, Bruce wrote:
    >> RichA<> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    >>> their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
    >>> companies running things have enough control over production in those
    >>> Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    >>> and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    >>> people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1

    >
    >> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?

    >
    > Indeed. But you could have a cache of goods with cachet hidden away
    > somewhere!
    >
    >> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    >> from superior Western products.

    >
    > Absolutely.
    >
    > There was a story in the 50's that some Japanese companies formed a town
    > called "USA" in Japan so they could stamp "Made in USA" on the ratty
    > goods. No idea whether it was true or not, and don't care enough to
    > research an answer.
    >


    Despite my prior posting on the subject, this didn't happen.
    According to Scopes, the story is false.
    My prior posting is wrong.

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Nov 27, 2011
    #11
  12. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/26/2011 9:37 PM, PeterN wrote:
    > On 11/25/2011 8:19 PM, ASCII wrote:
    >> Bruce wrote:
    >>>
    >>> I recall the gold oval "JCII" stickers on cameras and lenses.

    >>
    >> I recall the stickers with "JIS" on them
    >> and we thought it meant to signify
    >> "Japanese Imported Shit"
    >> Then Sony and some others totally reversed that image
    >> to where it now suggests excellence.

    >
    >
    > IIRC about that time a lot of Japanese crap was labeled "Made in Usa."
    > Usa is a city located in Japan.
    >
    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa,_%C5%8Cita>
    >


    I posted the above before checking. My prior posting is wrong.

    <http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/usa.asp>

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Nov 27, 2011
    #12
  13. RichA

    Guest Guest

    John McWilliams <> wrote:
    > On 11/25/11 PDT 6:36 AM, Bruce wrote:
    >> RichA<> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    >>> their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
    >>> companies running things have enough control over production in those
    >>> Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    >>> and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    >>> people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1

    >
    >> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?

    >
    > Indeed. But you could have a cache of goods with cachet hidden away somewhere!
    >
    >> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    >> from superior Western products.

    >
    > Absolutely.
    >
    > There was a story in the 50's that some Japanese companies formed a town
    > called "USA" in Japan so they could stamp "Made in USA" on the ratty
    > goods. No idea whether it was true or not, and don't care enough to research an answer.


    It is nonsense. Japs are stoopid and not smart enough for such a clever
    idea.
     
    Guest, Nov 27, 2011
    #13
  14. RichA

    PeterN Guest

    On 11/27/2011 11:56 AM, Allen wrote:
    > On 11/26/2011 8:46 PM, PeterN wrote:
    >> On 11/26/2011 12:27 PM, John McWilliams wrote:
    >>> On 11/25/11 PDT 6:36 AM, Bruce wrote:
    >>>> RichA<> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Seems like that label is now being used to differentiate cameras from
    >>>>> their lower, Made in China, Thailand, Vietnam bretheren. Even if the
    >>>>> companies running things have enough control over production in those
    >>>>> Third World countries, the terrible quality of many Chinese products
    >>>>> and the incidents of contaminated products has left a bitter taste in
    >>>>> people's mouths. Made in Japan still stands for something.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2011/11/24/fujifilmxs1
    >>>
    >>>> Perhaps you meant "cachet"?
    >>>
    >>> Indeed. But you could have a cache of goods with cachet hidden away
    >>> somewhere!
    >>>
    >>>> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    >>>> from superior Western products.
    >>>
    >>> Absolutely.
    >>>
    >>> There was a story in the 50's that some Japanese companies formed a town
    >>> called "USA" in Japan so they could stamp "Made in USA" on the ratty
    >>> goods. No idea whether it was true or not, and don't care enough to
    >>> research an answer.
    >>>

    >>
    >> Despite my prior posting on the subject, this didn't happen.
    >> According to Scopes, the story is false.
    >> My prior posting is wrong.
    >>

    > As I recall, I first came this story in one of Bennett Cerf's books
    > writeen during WWII, while we were devoting half our efforts to
    > combatting explosive-laden Japanese "imports". The date he gave for the
    > sory was in the 1920s. I've got to mention a totally OT story from one
    > of those books which is in the mood of Web scams. It seems that many
    > small newspapers in California ran ads that said in effect "Is your cow
    > drooling? Send a dime today to (address) for a guaranteed remedy". Each
    > submitter received back a penny postcard with the following printed
    > message:
    >
    > "TYeach your cow to spit"
    >
    > Sorry, but I absolutely couldn't resist.
    > Allen
    >


    I had a college friend whose father made a lot of money selling 'How to
    play the ..." instructions. His advertising was strictly through comic
    books. You got a music scale; photo of the instrument, and some
    rudimentary instructions. Oh! yes there was the familiar admonition to
    practice.

    --
    Peter
     
    PeterN, Nov 27, 2011
    #14
  15. On 11/27/11 PDT 12:19 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
    > On Sun, 27 Nov 2011 02:49:35 +0000 (UTC),<>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> It is nonsense. Japs are stoopid and not smart enough for such a clever
    >> idea.

    >
    > Anyone who thinks the 'Japs are stoopid' should go back under their
    > log.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Eric Stevens


    Eric-

    It would be a good thing if you didn't reply to puerile trolling. At all.

    Also, why would you send "regards" to such?

    Very truly yours,

    JPMcW
     
    John McWilliams, Nov 28, 2011
    #15
  16. On 11/26/11 PDT 4:08 PM, Eric Stevens wrote:

    > Years ago my (now) ex son in law bought a fake Rolex, "But that's OK.
    > Its got a Seiko movement". Some time later he found it was a fake
    > Seiko.


    Hah! Good story! And idea how he found out that the movement was by
    xposidfjp[a??
     
    John McWilliams, Nov 28, 2011
    #16
  17. On 11/26/11 PDT 6:46 PM, PeterN wrote:
    > On 11/26/2011 12:27 PM, John McWilliams wrote:
    >> On 11/25/11 PDT 6:36 AM, Bruce wrote:
    >>> I remember when 'Made in Japan' signified shoddy goods, often copied
    >>> from superior Western products.

    >>
    >> Absolutely.
    >>
    >> There was a story in the 50's that some Japanese companies formed a town
    >> called "USA" in Japan so they could stamp "Made in USA" on the ratty
    >> goods. No idea whether it was true or not, and don't care enough to
    >> research an answer.
    >>

    >
    > Despite my prior posting on the subject, this didn't happen.
    > According to Scopes, the story is false.
    > My prior posting is wrong.


    Did you see Savageduck's reply to my 'story'? Good info; thanks, Duck.
     
    John McWilliams, Nov 28, 2011
    #17
  18. Bruce <> wrote:

    > 'Made in Germany' still holds some value. Leica is keen to emphasise
    > that its cameras are 'Made in Germany', however most manufacturing is
    > done in Portugal, with final assembly and finishing in Germany.


    I thought Leica cameras were made by Panasonic in Japan?
    Apart from the red badge of course.
     
    Gordon Freeman, Nov 28, 2011
    #18
  19. RichA

    Bruce Guest

    Gordon Freeman <> wrote:

    >Bruce <> wrote:
    >
    >> 'Made in Germany' still holds some value. Leica is keen to emphasise
    >> that its cameras are 'Made in Germany', however most manufacturing is
    >> done in Portugal, with final assembly and finishing in Germany.

    >
    >I thought Leica cameras were made by Panasonic in Japan?
    >Apart from the red badge of course.



    Leica-badged point and shoot digital cameras are made by Panasonic.
    The addition of the red dot, a longer warranty (in some markets), a
    case (for some models) and the Leica box almost doubles the price.

    However, these are not real Leica cameras but re-branded Panasonic
    products.

    In contrast to these, the Leica M rangefinder cameras and lenses, the
    X1 compact camera and the Leica S2 medium format digital SLR and its
    lenses are Leica products that proudly carry "Made in Germany".
     
    Bruce, Nov 28, 2011
    #19
  20. RichA

    Trevor Guest

    "Allen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >I've got to mention a totally OT story from one of those books which is in
    >the mood of Web scams. It seems that many small newspapers in California
    >ran ads that said in effect "Is your cow drooling? Send a dime today to
    >(address) for a guaranteed remedy". Each submitter received back a penny
    >postcard with the following printed message:
    >
    > "TYeach your cow to spit"
    >
    > Sorry, but I absolutely couldn't resist.



    My favourite was a fancy ad that claimed to tell you the secret of how to
    cut your electricity bill.
    They sent you a pair of plastic scissors!
    :)

    Trevor.
     
    Trevor, Nov 28, 2011
    #20
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