Macro-Canon MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by nikki, Jun 12, 2004.

  1. nikki

    nikki Guest

    Has anyone had any good experiences with the MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x
    Macro.
    The Canon Tech department doesn't seem to know much about it. It looks
    very convenient for field use.
    I would also like to know if there is a way to increase the
    magnification to 10-15X. The Canon Techs could not say if the
    extenders(1.4x and 2x) would be compatible with this lens.
    Nikki
     
    nikki, Jun 12, 2004
    #1
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  2. In article <>, nikki
    <> writes
    >Has anyone had any good experiences with the MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x
    >Macro.
    >The Canon Tech department doesn't seem to know much about it. It looks
    >very convenient for field use.
    >I would also like to know if there is a way to increase the
    >magnification to 10-15X. The Canon Techs could not say if the
    >extenders(1.4x and 2x) would be compatible with this lens.
    >Nikki


    I have never used this lens, so please take my comments as slightly
    "interpolated".

    The Canon book "EF Lens Work III" also makes no mention of using the
    MP-E65 f/2.8 with focal length converters ("extenders" in Canon
    terminology) or even with extension tubes. BTW, it also points out that
    for the lesser EOS bodies (i.e. other than EOS 1n/1v/1D variants and EOS
    3) the metering does not work correctly and compensation is required -
    changes with magnification.

    In general, makers of specialist macro lenses make a range of lenses, so
    that each does not have to cover too great a range. Computing a lens to
    work over a very large range of conjugate distances is difficult, and
    something has to give. For instance, the Zeiss Luminar range has 6
    different lenses to cover the range of magnifications from 2.5x to 70x -
    or 1.5x to 22x - depending on equipment used. Typically each lens will
    cover a range of magnification of about 1.4.

    At a guess, it will be possible to produce images with the MP-E65 and
    extension tubes. The optical quality will almost certainly be reduced,
    and the metering may be even more screwed up, but it should give usable
    results. As for tele-extenders, be aware that the Canon ones protrude
    very significantly in front, and they will not physically fit many of
    the more "normal" lenses. The layout diagram of the MP-E65 does suggest
    its rear element is well recessed, so it may fit, but I wouldn't hold
    out much hope for the quality.

    The kind of magnifications you are looking for are extremely challenging
    for use in the field. The very tiniest breath of wind will ruin
    pictures, and lighting will be a real challenge. If you can, you would
    be much better off taking the subjects indoors and using a bellows macro
    set-up. There are numerous good books on this subject, ask again if you
    are interested - tell us what camera body you plan to use.
    --
    David Littlewood
     
    David Littlewood, Jun 12, 2004
    #2
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  3. "nikki" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Has anyone had any good experiences with the MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x
    > Macro.
    > The Canon Tech department doesn't seem to know much about it. It looks
    > very convenient for field use.
    > I would also like to know if there is a way to increase the
    > magnification to 10-15X. The Canon Techs could not say if the
    > extenders(1.4x and 2x) would be compatible with this lens.


    Call Samys or B&Hand ask them to try it:)
     
    Robert Meyers, Jun 12, 2004
    #3
  4. nikki

    Bill Hilton Guest

    >From: David Littlewood

    >The kind of magnifications you are looking for are extremely challenging
    >for use in the field. The very tiniest breath of wind will ruin
    >pictures, and lighting will be a real challenge.


    Everyone I've ever seen use this lens was using flash, which eases these
    problems (at least the lighting one). Either the ringlight (MR-14EX, which I
    use) or the twin strobes (MT-24EX) ...
    http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/mp-e-65.shtml
     
    Bill Hilton, Jun 12, 2004
    #4
  5. nikki

    Mike Engles Guest

    Bill Hilton wrote:
    >
    > >From: David Littlewood

    >
    > >The kind of magnifications you are looking for are extremely challenging
    > >for use in the field. The very tiniest breath of wind will ruin
    > >pictures, and lighting will be a real challenge.

    >
    > Everyone I've ever seen use this lens was using flash, which eases these
    > problems (at least the lighting one). Either the ringlight (MR-14EX, which I
    > use) or the twin strobes (MT-24EX) ...
    > http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/mp-e-65.shtml



    Hello

    With a digital and 1.5 magnification factor, X5 becomes X7.5.
    You will then be cms away from the object.

    This guy uses this lens and gets some terrific results.

    http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2432382

    He does respond to questions.

    Mike Engles
     
    Mike Engles, Jun 12, 2004
    #5
  6. nikki

    JH Guest

    Is there a similar lens for Nikon (D70)?

    "nikki" <> skrev i en meddelelse
    news:...
    > Has anyone had any good experiences with the MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x
    > Macro.
    > The Canon Tech department doesn't seem to know much about it. It looks
    > very convenient for field use.
    > I would also like to know if there is a way to increase the
    > magnification to 10-15X. The Canon Techs could not say if the
    > extenders(1.4x and 2x) would be compatible with this lens.
    > Nikki
     
    JH, Jun 12, 2004
    #6
  7. In article <>,
    says...
    > With a digital and 1.5 magnification factor, X5 becomes X7.5.
    > You will then be cms away from the object.


    Not quite correct. Magnification stays the same, but the field of view
    changes. It's a 1.6 crop factor, not magnification.
     
    Brian C. Baird, Jun 13, 2004
    #7
  8. "nikki" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Has anyone had any good experiences with the MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x
    > Macro.
    > The Canon Tech department doesn't seem to know much about it. It looks
    > very convenient for field use.
    > I would also like to know if there is a way to increase the
    > magnification to 10-15X. The Canon Techs could not say if the
    > extenders(1.4x and 2x) would be compatible with this lens.
    > Nikki


    Try searching on the www.dpreview.com Canon forums. I'm sure I've seen some
    superb examples published there.
    --
    M Stewart
    Milton Keynes, UK
    www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm
    http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/ms1938/
     
    Malcolm Stewart, Jun 13, 2004
    #8
  9. "JH" <> wrote in message
    news:40cb79c0$0$492$...
    > Is there a similar lens for Nikon (D70)?
    >

    AFAIK this is a unique lens from Canon. Nikon offers 60/2.8 but it only 1:1,
    the Canon goes down to 5:1

    > "nikki" <> skrev i en meddelelse
    > news:...
    > > Has anyone had any good experiences with the MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x
    > > Macro.
    > > The Canon Tech department doesn't seem to know much about it. It looks
    > > very convenient for field use.
    > > I would also like to know if there is a way to increase the
    > > magnification to 10-15X. The Canon Techs could not say if the
    > > extenders(1.4x and 2x) would be compatible with this lens.
    > > Nikki

    >
    >
     
    Darrell Larose, Jun 13, 2004
    #9
  10. nikki

    nikki Guest

    "Malcolm Stewart" <> wrote in message news:<cahbe3$6us$>...
    > "nikki" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Has anyone had any good experiences with the MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x
    > > Macro.

    >
    > Try searching on the www.dpreview.com Canon forums. I'm sure I've seen some
    > superb examples published there.


    I did search the dpreview. Mostly people expressing a desire to own
    this lens.

    John, at dpreview had some good information.
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=912362
    Here it is:
    The MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x macro lens is a superb special-purpose lens
    that basically removes the need for a bellows or other accessories in
    close-up shooting at greater than life size. It's very sharp, and its
    auto diaphragm makes it very convenient for field shooting.

    The key is that this is a special-purpose lens, not a
    high-performance general purpose lens like the 50mm f/2.5 macro or
    100mm f/2.8 macro that can focus to infinity. It has no autofocus
    capability, although it does have the full electronic diaphragm and
    thus never requires being stopped-down manually unless you want to
    check your depth of field. Of course, depth-of-field is limited with a
    lens like this, and typically you'll want to shoot around f/8 to f/16.
    And your working distance is tight, too; at 4x or 5x magnification,
    you'll be a little more than an inch (25mm) from the front of the
    lens.

    F/16 is the smallest aperture available, partially because
    (probably) you'd encounter image-degrading diffraction at smaller
    apertures, and also because of the light losses you get at higher
    magnifications. These light losses are laws of optics, and not a
    problem with the way Canon designed this lens. At the full 5x
    magnification, you've lost about 5 stops of light, so f/16 is
    equivalent to approximately f/90 in terms of light transmission to the
    film.

    Because of this light loss, it's a tough lens to use with just
    ambient light once you're much past the 1x magnification setting; if
    you're shooting in the field, a ring light flash is almost a necessity
    and completely changes the shooting experience. Now, it's possible to
    hand-hold this lens, pre-set the magnification you want to work at,
    and just move in and out until your subject appears in sharp focus and
    shoot. Manual mode on the camera works best here, allowing you to
    combine a small aperture like f/11 or f/16 with a reasonable shutter
    speed like 1/125th. Once you're used to it, it's pretty easy to work
    this way up to about 3x magnifications or so. Great for shots of
    things like insects, etc. Note that the only ring flash (currently)
    that provides TTL automatic flash with the digital D30 is Canon's
    MR-14EX Ring Lite.

    As magnifications get above 3x, it becomes more of an effort to
    just keep the image steady for composition, let alone precise focus.
    You may benefit from a tripod and most importantly, a macro focus rail
    that allows you to focus by moving the whole camera/lens combo
    smoothly and precisely back and forth. Canon doesn't make one, but a
    number of third-party outfits such as Kirk Enterprises in the US and
    others do.

    The MP-E 65mm lens isn't the right choice for everyone, but if
    you've tried the 50mm and 100mm macro lenses with 1:1 capability and
    found consistently that they just aren't giving you enough
    magnification, this lens is one of the best in the industry at moving
    to the next step. It'll require you to work a bit, and it's not cheap,
    but the images it can produce will amaze you.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    >Mike Engles wrote:
    >This guy uses this lens and gets some terrific results.
    >http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2432382


    Amazing photography site. The Swede's moth is very good. Thanks

    David Littlewood wrote:
    >The kind of magnifications you are looking for are extremely

    challenging
    >for use in the field. The very tiniest breath of wind will ruin
    >pictures, and lighting will be a real challenge. If you can, you

    would
    >be much better off taking the subjects indoors and using a bellows

    macro
    >set-up. There are numerous good books on this subject, ask again if

    you
    >are interested - tell us what camera body you plan to use.


    I am primarily interested in imaging snow and ice crystals(that is why
    I want 10X), mostly natural formations, so exclusive studio work is
    not an option. I like the idea of a very compact and tough lens, like
    the MP-E65mm.
    I use a Canon DSLR with multiple flash (550's) off camera.
    I will probably just buy the extender and try it anyway(good excuse to
    buy one for my other lenses). They are not expensive, as compared to
    the lens. I don't think there are any physical restrictions to using
    the extender, other than the camera vibrations as noted. Still, no
    one seems to know.
    nikki
     
    nikki, Jun 13, 2004
    #10
  11. In article <>, nikki
    <> writes
    >
    > F/16 is the smallest aperture available, partially because
    >(probably) you'd encounter image-degrading diffraction at smaller
    >apertures, and also because of the light losses you get at higher
    >magnifications. These light losses are laws of optics, and not a
    >problem with the way Canon designed this lens. At the full 5x
    >magnification, you've lost about 5 stops of light, so f/16 is
    >equivalent to approximately f/90 in terms of light transmission to the
    >film.
    >

    It is also f/90 when looking at degradation due to diffraction - a point
    often overlooked.
    --
    David Littlewood
     
    David Littlewood, Jun 14, 2004
    #11
  12. In article <>, nikki
    <> writes
    >
    >David Littlewood wrote:
    >>The kind of magnifications you are looking for are extremely

    >challenging
    >>for use in the field. The very tiniest breath of wind will ruin
    >>pictures, and lighting will be a real challenge. If you can, you

    >would
    >>be much better off taking the subjects indoors and using a bellows

    >macro
    >>set-up. There are numerous good books on this subject, ask again if

    >you
    >>are interested - tell us what camera body you plan to use.

    >
    >I am primarily interested in imaging snow and ice crystals(that is why
    >I want 10X), mostly natural formations, so exclusive studio work is
    >not an option. I like the idea of a very compact and tough lens, like
    >the MP-E65mm.
    >I use a Canon DSLR with multiple flash (550's) off camera.
    >I will probably just buy the extender and try it anyway(good excuse to
    >buy one for my other lenses). They are not expensive, as compared to
    >the lens. I don't think there are any physical restrictions to using
    >the extender, other than the camera vibrations as noted. Still, no
    >one seems to know.
    >nikki


    Do be careful also of the possibility of physical interference between
    macro lens and extender.
    --
    David Littlewood
     
    David Littlewood, Jun 14, 2004
    #12
  13. nikki

    S Lee Guest

    S Lee, Jun 14, 2004
    #13
  14. In article <>,
    says...
    > Has anyone had any good experiences with the MP-E65mm f/2.8 1-5x
    > Macro.
    > The Canon Tech department doesn't seem to know much about it. It looks
    > very convenient for field use.
    > I would also like to know if there is a way to increase the
    > magnification to 10-15X. The Canon Techs could not say if the
    > extenders(1.4x and 2x) would be compatible with this lens.
    > Nikki
    >

    I have this lens but use it sparingly. It works just fine with my Canon
    1.4X TC with moderate magnifications and should work OK with the 2X
    Canon TC. However, with the 2X converter and lens set to 5X
    magnification @ f8 (the equivalent of f128), I suspect would be VERY
    hard to see the image well enough to focus unless you have the ring
    light or dual macro light's modeling lights on, even then it would still
    a very dim viewfinder. The factory specs state that to use this lens
    with TTL ambient light metering you need to have an EOS 3, 1n or 1v. In
    any case, the TTL meter works fine on my 10D both for ambient light and
    flash. You can read my comments on this lens at

    http://www.sphoto.com/techinfo/phototech.html#65mm

    Cheers, Steve

    --
    Steve Hoffmann
    http://www.sphoto.com
    Photo Gallery & Digital Imaging Information
    Remove NO if replying via email
     
    Steve Hoffmann, Jun 15, 2004
    #14
  15. nikki

    defalkner

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1
    Well your not correct either...

    You have a crop factor which wide angle 'EF' lenses on a Canon APS-C type body (non full frame like 20D, 30D, 40D, XT, XTi, XSi), will cause vignetting. But there is ALSO a magnification factor. Don't believe me? Read about it here - it's very simple to understand.

    http://www.lonestardigital.com/multipler.htm

    You have a crop and a multiplier factor. Which a magnifier would be the same thing. A 300mm EF telephoto lens will act as a 480mm on an APS-C based camera. That's a fact. Period. The lens sits further away and the increased distance causes increased telephoto end on a camera. This is NOT true for EF-S lenses!!! EF-S lenses are specifically made to correct this issue and work in their true "mm" range.

    Now this works against you if you are using EF lenses lower than 55mm. You will experience vignetting around the frame, the wider you shoot (eg 18mm).

    So hopefully this answers that. I work with Canon directly and am also a photographer.

    Just remember all EF lenses on Prosumer cameras (APS-C type sensor) that I listed above all have a 1.6x crop and magnification factor.
     
    defalkner, Jul 1, 2008
    #15
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