Lunix is not for home users...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Greg Parker, Nov 5, 2003.

  1. Greg  Parker

    Greg Parker Guest

    Well as I said all along and this confirms it.


    " Red Hat's chief executive has said that Linux needs to mature further before
    home users will get a positive experience from the operating system, saying
    they should choose Windows instead.

    Linux is seen by Microsoft as its most dangerous competitor for desktop
    operating systems, and after a number of high-profile cases where government
    departments have switched from Windows to Linux-based systems, the OS has been
    making some progress. However, Red Hat said that the hype around desktop Linux
    is still mostly unfounded at the moment.

    Matthew Szulik, chief executive of Linux vendor Red Hat, said on Monday that
    although Linux is capable of exceeding expectations for corporate users, home
    users should stick with Windows: "I would say that for the consumer market
    place, Windows probably continues to be the right product line," he said. "I
    would argue that from the device-driver standpoint and perhaps some of the
    other traditional functionality, for that classic consumer purchaser, it is my
    view that (Linux) technology needs to mature a little bit more."
     
    Greg Parker, Nov 5, 2003
    #1
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  2. Greg  Parker

    Jay Guest

    Greg Parker wrote:

    > Well as I said all along and this confirms it.
    >
    >
    > " Red Hat's chief executive has said that Linux needs to mature further
    > before home users will get a positive experience from the operating
    > system, saying they should choose Windows instead.
    >


    .... but haven't they already done that?
    Don't home users already choose Windows instead?

    Bye RedHat!
     
    Jay, Nov 5, 2003
    #2
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  3. Greg  Parker

    techie Guest

    On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:50:22 -0600, Greg Parker wrote:

    >
    > Well as I said all along and this confirms it.
    >
    >
    > " Red Hat's chief executive has said that Linux needs to mature further
    > before home users will get a positive experience from the operating
    > system, saying they should choose Windows instead.


    This is not news. Linux Torvalds himself said that although the kernel
    is ready, he didn't think a sufficient number of Linux applications
    would be finished-enough to make Linux ready for the consumer market for
    another two years. However there's a difference between not being ready
    for home users, and not being able to replace Windows for a great many
    home users if they happen to have a geek handy. For example, I've done
    quite a few installations of Linux and a small set of applications for
    people who just wanted a reliable, no-hassle machine for web browsing,
    email, and simple home-office chores, and have neither the need nor the
    desire to be installing new software toys and twiddling with the OS all
    the time. Such systems have proven to be significantly more reliable and
    much less hassle for both myself and the end-users than similar systems
    I've put together for people who wanted the same thing accomplished with
    Windows applications.

    Nontechnical home users will come last. Businesses are arriving before
    consumers because they have a narrower range of software needs, they
    have the money to fund development of high-office tools and the
    financial motivation to make that investment, they have their own
    tech-support staff so they can better live with software that needs a
    little technical expertise to install and maintain, and businesses who
    purchase large numbers of machines are in a far better position than
    individual consumers to persuade name-brand manufacturers to sell them
    Windows-less computers at a good price.

    Linux's entry into the home market will come when people start wanting
    to use the same software at home that they use at the office.
     
    techie, Nov 6, 2003
    #3
  4. Greg  Parker

    cowboyz Guest

    "techie" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:50:22 -0600, Greg Parker wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Well as I said all along and this confirms it.
    > >
    > >
    > > " Red Hat's chief executive has said that Linux needs to mature further
    > > before home users will get a positive experience from the operating
    > > system, saying they should choose Windows instead.

    >
    > This is not news. Linux Torvalds himself said that although the kernel
    > is ready, he didn't think a sufficient number of Linux applications
    > would be finished-enough to make Linux ready for the consumer market for
    > another two years. However there's a difference between not being ready
    > for home users, and not being able to replace Windows for a great many
    > home users if they happen to have a geek handy. For example, I've done
    > quite a few installations of Linux and a small set of applications for
    > people who just wanted a reliable, no-hassle machine for web browsing,
    > email, and simple home-office chores, and have neither the need nor the
    > desire to be installing new software toys and twiddling with the OS all
    > the time. Such systems have proven to be significantly more reliable and
    > much less hassle for both myself and the end-users than similar systems
    > I've put together for people who wanted the same thing accomplished with
    > Windows applications.
    >
    > Nontechnical home users will come last. Businesses are arriving before
    > consumers because they have a narrower range of software needs, they
    > have the money to fund development of high-office tools and the
    > financial motivation to make that investment, they have their own
    > tech-support staff so they can better live with software that needs a
    > little technical expertise to install and maintain, and businesses who
    > purchase large numbers of machines are in a far better position than
    > individual consumers to persuade name-brand manufacturers to sell them
    > Windows-less computers at a good price.
    >
    > Linux's entry into the home market will come when people start wanting
    > to use the same software at home that they use at the office.




    This is a far cry from what was being spouted 6 months ago where Linux was
    taking over windows and Linux is the only OS you ever need and Linux can do
    100x more than windows 1000x faster and.......................

    I went there..... I'll never go back.....
     
    cowboyz, Nov 6, 2003
    #4
  5. Greg  Parker

    AD. Guest

    On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 17:34:02 +1300, cowboyz wrote:

    > This is a far cry from what was being spouted 6 months ago where Linux was
    > taking over windows and Linux is the only OS you ever need and Linux can
    > do 100x more than windows 1000x faster and.......................


    Not really, hardly anyone has changed what's being 'spouted'.

    Linus is still saying the same thing,
    Lennier is still saying the same thing,
    Woger is still saying the same thing,
    etc etc

    You're just mixing up who said what :)

    The only reason that RedHat has disparaged Linux for home users is that
    they aren't trying to sell them anything anymore. It sounded like it was
    aimed to hurt other distros, which wasn't that smart a move IMO.

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Nov 6, 2003
    #5
  6. Greg  Parker

    harry Guest

    "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:bocj90$l40$...
    >
    > "techie" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > > On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 16:50:22 -0600, Greg Parker wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Well as I said all along and this confirms it.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > " Red Hat's chief executive has said that Linux needs to mature

    further
    > > > before home users will get a positive experience from the operating
    > > > system, saying they should choose Windows instead.

    > >
    > > This is not news. Linux Torvalds himself said that although the kernel
    > > is ready, he didn't think a sufficient number of Linux applications
    > > would be finished-enough to make Linux ready for the consumer market for
    > > another two years. However there's a difference between not being ready
    > > for home users, and not being able to replace Windows for a great many
    > > home users if they happen to have a geek handy. For example, I've done
    > > quite a few installations of Linux and a small set of applications for
    > > people who just wanted a reliable, no-hassle machine for web browsing,
    > > email, and simple home-office chores, and have neither the need nor the
    > > desire to be installing new software toys and twiddling with the OS all
    > > the time. Such systems have proven to be significantly more reliable and
    > > much less hassle for both myself and the end-users than similar systems
    > > I've put together for people who wanted the same thing accomplished with
    > > Windows applications.
    > >
    > > Nontechnical home users will come last. Businesses are arriving before
    > > consumers because they have a narrower range of software needs, they
    > > have the money to fund development of high-office tools and the
    > > financial motivation to make that investment, they have their own
    > > tech-support staff so they can better live with software that needs a
    > > little technical expertise to install and maintain, and businesses who
    > > purchase large numbers of machines are in a far better position than
    > > individual consumers to persuade name-brand manufacturers to sell them
    > > Windows-less computers at a good price.
    > >
    > > Linux's entry into the home market will come when people start wanting
    > > to use the same software at home that they use at the office.

    >
    >
    >
    > This is a far cry from what was being spouted 6 months ago where Linux was
    > taking over windows and Linux is the only OS you ever need and Linux can

    do
    > 100x more than windows 1000x faster and.......................
    >
    > I went there..... I'll never go back.....
    >
    >
    >

    But would you buy a TiVO ?
     
    harry, Nov 6, 2003
    #6
  7. Greg  Parker

    cowboyz Guest

    harry wrote:

    >>
    >>
    >> This is a far cry from what was being spouted 6 months ago where
    >> Linux was taking over windows and Linux is the only OS you ever need
    >> and Linux can do 100x more than windows 1000x faster
    >> and.......................
    >>
    >> I went there..... I'll never go back.....
    >>
    >>
    >>

    > But would you buy a TiVO ?


    err -- probably not. why?
     
    cowboyz, Nov 6, 2003
    #7
  8. Greg  Parker

    harry Guest

    "cowboyz" <> wrote in message
    news:boct97$tbo$...
    > harry wrote:
    >
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> This is a far cry from what was being spouted 6 months ago where
    > >> Linux was taking over windows and Linux is the only OS you ever need
    > >> and Linux can do 100x more than windows 1000x faster
    > >> and.......................
    > >>
    > >> I went there..... I'll never go back.....
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>

    > > But would you buy a TiVO ?

    >
    > err -- probably not. why?
    >
    >

    In the civilized world it is synonymous with Personal Video Recorder or PVR,
    which is the next appliance boom to happen after the DVD player. TiVO is
    built with Linux.
    Linux isn't a substitute for Windows, as an office appliance desktop thingy,
    but an increasing number of PVR and STB appliances, routers, access points
    etc are using Linux as their operating systems.
    I'm currently building a system based on mythtv on Linux on PXE players for
    video. I'm quite happy to use Windows for what it does best, and acknowledge
    what it does best, but I've got 6-8 PCs on my network at any one time, doing
    what my hifi and ht stuff used to do, running a fax and print server. Most
    of them would be a bit off the pace as state of the art gamers boxes, but
    they are good for what they do. I use Debian for this stuff, and its like
    having all the software for a huge number of projects on tap.
    Windows has great fonts, its slick and shiny and easy, but it doesn't fill
    all the niches.
    The best of both worlds is a good way to go.

    >
     
    harry, Nov 6, 2003
    #8
  9. Greg  Parker

    ChrisOD Guest

    harry wrote:

    <snip>

    >>
    >>

    >
    > But would you buy a TiVO ?
    >
    >

    Think I'll stick with FreeVo
     
    ChrisOD, Nov 6, 2003
    #9
  10. Greg  Parker

    T.N.O. Guest

    harry wrote:
    > but I've got 6-8 PCs on my network at any one time, doing
    > what my hifi and ht stuff used to do, running a fax and print server.


    Is this economic? I mean 6-8 PC's or an actual sound system etc...
     
    T.N.O., Nov 6, 2003
    #10
  11. Greg  Parker

    harry Guest

    "T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    news:3faa1883$...
    > harry wrote:
    > > but I've got 6-8 PCs on my network at any one time, doing
    > > what my hifi and ht stuff used to do, running a fax and print server.

    >
    > Is this economic? I mean 6-8 PC's or an actual sound system etc...


    Yeah, quite a lot of it is free, courtesy of Windows users thar have no use
    for a PC that doesn't run their latest toy games.
     
    harry, Nov 6, 2003
    #11
  12. Greg  Parker

    harry Guest

    "ChrisOD" <> wrote in message
    news:3faa23c3$...
    > harry wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > > But would you buy a TiVO ?
    > >
    > >

    > Think I'll stick with FreeVo
    >


    They are both Linux
     
    harry, Nov 6, 2003
    #12
  13. Greg  Parker

    T.N.O. Guest

    harry wrote:
    >>>but I've got 6-8 PCs on my network at any one time, doing
    >>>what my hifi and ht stuff used to do, running a fax and print server.


    >>Is this economic? I mean 6-8 PC's or an actual sound system etc...


    > Yeah, quite a lot of it is free, courtesy of Windows users thar have no use
    > for a PC that doesn't run their latest toy games.


    I see... but does it do it better than your sound system etc used to do?
     
    T.N.O., Nov 6, 2003
    #13
  14. Greg  Parker

    harry Guest

    "T.N.O." <> wrote in message
    news:3faa1dc2$...
    > harry wrote:
    > >>>but I've got 6-8 PCs on my network at any one time, doing
    > >>>what my hifi and ht stuff used to do, running a fax and print server.

    >
    > >>Is this economic? I mean 6-8 PC's or an actual sound system etc...

    >
    > > Yeah, quite a lot of it is free, courtesy of Windows users thar have no

    use
    > > for a PC that doesn't run their latest toy games.

    >
    > I see... but does it do it better than your sound system etc used to do?


    It sounds really good and it can do things that regular hifi bits can't,
    like stream different playlists to different places, and shuffle enormous
    playlists by albums or songs, and play streams. I've got several laptops
    that no one wants anymore because of their limited memory and small disks,
    and they make the ultimate remote control. It all works together courtesy of
    rdp rdesktop vnc samba ssh, some quality soundcards, some very average PCs.
    Heres a good place to start
    http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/products/story/0,24330,3528621,00.html
    Kitchen PC is next.
     
    harry, Nov 6, 2003
    #14
  15. [Woger] Re: Lunix is not for home users...

    Suddenly, Greg Parker sprang forth and uttered these pithy words:
    I hope someone sues you for impersonating them, one day, Woger.
    --
    aaronl at consultant dot com
    For every expert, there is an equal and
    opposite expert. - Arthur C. Clarke
     
    Aaron Lawrence, Nov 6, 2003
    #15
  16. Greg  Parker

    techie Guest

    On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 22:34:02 -0600, cowboyz wrote:


    > This is a far cry from what was being spouted 6 months ago where Linux
    > was taking over windows and Linux is the only OS you ever need and Linux
    > can do 100x more than windows 1000x faster and.......................
    >
    > I went there..... I'll never go back.....


    I went there, and I'll never go back to Windows, either. :)

    --
    ____ ___ _______ ____ ___
    / __/______ ___ / _ )/ __/ _ \ / __/ < / http://www.FreeBSD.org
    / _// __/ -_) -_) _ |\ \/ // / /__ \_ / / <-- kewl figlet sig!
    /_/ /_/ \__/\__/____/___/____/ /____(_)_/ http://www.figlet.org
     
    techie, Nov 6, 2003
    #16
  17. Greg  Parker

    Invisible Guest

    Re: [Woger] Re: Lunix is not for home users...

    On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 00:12:14 +1200, Aaron Lawrence <>
    wrote:

    >Suddenly, Greg Parker sprang forth and uttered these pithy words:
    >I hope someone sues you for impersonating them, one day, Woger.



    I knew a Greg Parker at college. Watch out Woger.

    ;-)
     
    Invisible, Nov 6, 2003
    #17
  18. Greg  Parker

    Allistar Guest

    Jay wrote:

    > Greg Parker wrote:
    >
    >> Well as I said all along and this confirms it.
    >>
    >>
    >> " Red Hat's chief executive has said that Linux needs to mature further
    >> before home users will get a positive experience from the operating
    >> system, saying they should choose Windows instead.
    >>

    >
    > ... but haven't they already done that?
    > Don't home users already choose Windows instead?


    "Choose" isn't the word i'd use. When was the last time you bought a PC and
    had a choice in what operating system was installed (and I don't just mean
    different flavours of Windows, I mean REAL choice)?

    > Bye RedHat!


    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Nov 6, 2003
    #18
  19. Hi there,

    Greg Parker wrote:
    >


    Who? Is this a real name?

    > Matthew Szulik, chief executive of Linux vendor Red Hat, said on Monday that
    > although Linux is capable of exceeding expectations for corporate users, home
    > users should stick with Windows: "I would say that for the consumer market
    > place, Windows probably continues to be the right product line," he said. "I
    > would argue that from the device-driver standpoint and perhaps some of the
    > other traditional functionality, for that classic consumer purchaser, it is my
    > view that (Linux) technology needs to mature a little bit more."


    Redhat are a business (no shit sherlock!), and this move by them is just a
    focus on their corporate/enterprise business unit.

    He appears to generalise a little in stating that Windows is 'right' for the
    consumer desktop market. For sure some people would struggle with a linux
    install, but many of them would also struggle with a Windows one. For him to
    try lumping home users into one 'hat' just tells me that no longer does he
    wish to provide core resources to the desktop market, since that one is not
    profitable. Thats fine, there are plenty of other linux distros that supply
    a consumer friendly (read free) version. Device driver support is improving,
    and the software provided to consumers improves rapidly. I think his statement
    that 2 years will see the ease-of-use of Linux approach or equal that of Windows
    to be a valid one. As to replacing Windows on the average consumer desktop, that
    would be a bit pie-in-the-sky to predict upon, but I think as Linux continues
    to make inroads in that arena look to radical changes at Microsoft that reflect
    that linux will become a true competitor at home as well...

    Kind regards,

    Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.
     
    Chris Wilkinson, Nov 7, 2003
    #19
  20. Greg  Parker

    harry Guest

    "Chris Wilkinson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi there,
    >
    > Greg Parker wrote:
    > >

    >
    > Who? Is this a real name?
    >
    > > Matthew Szulik, chief executive of Linux vendor Red Hat, said on Monday

    that
    > > although Linux is capable of exceeding expectations for corporate users,

    home
    > > users should stick with Windows: "I would say that for the consumer

    market
    > > place, Windows probably continues to be the right product line," he

    said. "I
    > > would argue that from the device-driver standpoint and perhaps some of

    the
    > > other traditional functionality, for that classic consumer purchaser, it

    is my
    > > view that (Linux) technology needs to mature a little bit more."

    >
    > Redhat are a business (no shit sherlock!), and this move by them is just a
    > focus on their corporate/enterprise business unit.
    >
    > He appears to generalise a little in stating that Windows is 'right' for

    the
    > consumer desktop market. For sure some people would struggle with a linux
    > install, but many of them would also struggle with a Windows one. For him

    to
    > try lumping home users into one 'hat' just tells me that no longer does he
    > wish to provide core resources to the desktop market, since that one is

    not
    > profitable. Thats fine, there are plenty of other linux distros that

    supply
    > a consumer friendly (read free) version. Device driver support is

    improving,
    > and the software provided to consumers improves rapidly. I think his

    statement
    > that 2 years will see the ease-of-use of Linux approach or equal that of

    Windows
    > to be a valid one. As to replacing Windows on the average consumer

    desktop, that
    > would be a bit pie-in-the-sky to predict upon, but I think as Linux

    continues
    > to make inroads in that arena look to radical changes at Microsoft that

    reflect
    > that linux will become a true competitor at home as well...
    >
    > Kind regards,
    >
    > Chris Wilkinson, Christchurch.
    >


    Its worth reading the original Register article
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/33766.html
    "The natural, cheap-shot 'have you stopped beating your wife yet' question
    for Szulik was: 'You're saying all these people who go down to the store
    looking for an alternative should buy Windows?' So we asked it, largely for
    the personal entertainment value of watching him desperately swimming for
    the shore. We certainly didn't intend to use it to construct an entirely
    unfair hit-magnet Linux-screamer story. Some people, however, are not so
    particular. Plus they steal other people's questions - watch it, kid."

    This is Red Hats point of view, its an admission that they are best leaving
    consumers to downstream products like Lycoris Xandros and Lindows who are
    repackaging mainstream distros.
    Keeping track of camcorders, mp3 portables cameras and the like is a
    different business. Microsoft has entirely different divisions handling home
    and enterprise product lines too.
    Apple is having the most success with the digital hub for your home consumer
    approach, and hot on the heels of iPOD, and iTunes I've just recently
    spotted HomePOD

    http://www.gloolabs.com/customer.php

    Nice !
     
    harry, Nov 7, 2003
    #20
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