Linux too fragmented? Mobile share fizzles in 2007

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by impossible, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. impossible

    impossible Guest

    According to recent market report, looking at the combined market for
    smartphones and wireless handhelds, overall sales growth was nearly 72%
    worldwide, but there were great differences in fortune across mobile
    operating systems.

    Symbian had a 65% share of worldwide converged device shipments, ahead of
    Microsoft on 12%, RIM on 11%, Apple on 7%, and Linux on 5% By region,
    Symbian led in APAC and EMEA with 85% and 80% shares respectively, while in
    North America RIM was the clear leader on 42%, ahead of Apple on 27% and
    Microsoft at 21%. The study notes, of course, that Apple's iPhone was a
    latecomer, and so it's share of total sales is probably understated by a
    considerable amount.

    "The mobile Linux opportunity remains just that - an opportunity..."Total
    Linux-based phone shipments in 2007 were almost flat on 2006. There is still
    too much fragmentation and not enough momentum for any single open standard
    around which the energy of developers, manufacturers and operators can
    coalesce."

    http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3506923462.html

    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008021.htm
     
    impossible, Apr 14, 2008
    #1
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  2. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "sam" <> wrote in message news:4802baef$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> According to recent market report, looking at the combined market for
    >> smartphones and wireless handhelds, overall sales growth was nearly 72%
    >> worldwide, but there were great differences in fortune across mobile
    >> operating systems.
    >>
    >> Symbian had a 65% share of worldwide converged device shipments, ahead of
    >> Microsoft on 12%, RIM on 11%, Apple on 7%, and Linux on 5% By region,
    >> Symbian led in APAC and EMEA with 85% and 80% shares respectively, while
    >> in North America RIM was the clear leader on 42%, ahead of Apple on 27%
    >> and Microsoft at 21%. The study notes, of course, that Apple's iPhone was
    >> a latecomer, and so it's share of total sales is probably understated by
    >> a considerable amount.
    >>
    >> "The mobile Linux opportunity remains just that - an opportunity..."Total
    >> Linux-based phone shipments in 2007 were almost flat on 2006. There is
    >> still too much fragmentation and not enough momentum for any single open
    >> standard around which the energy of developers, manufacturers and
    >> operators can coalesce."
    >>
    >> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3506923462.html
    >>
    >> http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008021.htm

    > Yeah, manufacturers are mostly using the operating systems they own, like
    > Symbian and RIM in smartphones. Users don't seem to care that their phone
    > doesn't run their Windows desktop operating system.
    > As you say the operating system is left to the specsheet and the user
    > experience is the main story.
    > The whole segment of Linux based phones is probably accounted for by
    > Motorola running Montavista embedded, so the second paragraph about
    > "fragmentation" suggests strongly that they don't know what they are
    > talking about.


    The fact that Motorola's growth rate is way behind the curve suggests that
    Motorola's Linux-based software isn't up to the job. If you can name a
    clear-cut Linux alternative, then maybe the "fragmentation" idea is wrong --
    maybe it's just that no one wants anything to do with **any** Linux phones.
    Otherwise, you're just whistling past the graveyard again.

    > The new Intel Mobile Internet Devices at the various trade shows recently
    > from Lenovo, Gigabyte, etc are running Ubuntu Mobile, for whatever reason
    > Windows Mobile and Vista is a lot less conspicuous that one would expect
    > considering that Microsoft is so dominant in desktops.


    Opinions are cheap. Just as soon as you can point to some actual numbers to
    back yours, you be sure to let us all know.
     
    impossible, Apr 14, 2008
    #2
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  3. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "sam" <> wrote in message news:4802dadd$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >> news:4802baef$...
    >>> impossible wrote:
    >>>> According to recent market report, looking at the combined market for
    >>>> smartphones and wireless handhelds, overall sales growth was nearly 72%
    >>>> worldwide, but there were great differences in fortune across mobile
    >>>> operating systems.
    >>>>
    >>>> Symbian had a 65% share of worldwide converged device shipments, ahead
    >>>> of Microsoft on 12%, RIM on 11%, Apple on 7%, and Linux on 5% By
    >>>> region, Symbian led in APAC and EMEA with 85% and 80% shares
    >>>> respectively, while in North America RIM was the clear leader on 42%,
    >>>> ahead of Apple on 27% and Microsoft at 21%. The study notes, of course,
    >>>> that Apple's iPhone was a latecomer, and so it's share of total sales
    >>>> is probably understated by a considerable amount.
    >>>>
    >>>> "The mobile Linux opportunity remains just that - an
    >>>> opportunity..."Total Linux-based phone shipments in 2007 were almost
    >>>> flat on 2006. There is still too much fragmentation and not enough
    >>>> momentum for any single open standard around which the energy of
    >>>> developers, manufacturers and operators can coalesce."
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3506923462.html
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008021.htm
    >>> Yeah, manufacturers are mostly using the operating systems they own,
    >>> like Symbian and RIM in smartphones. Users don't seem to care that their
    >>> phone doesn't run their Windows desktop operating system.
    >>> As you say the operating system is left to the specsheet and the user
    >>> experience is the main story.
    >>> The whole segment of Linux based phones is probably accounted for by
    >>> Motorola running Montavista embedded, so the second paragraph about
    >>> "fragmentation" suggests strongly that they don't know what they are
    >>> talking about.

    >>
    >> The fact that Motorola's growth rate is way behind the curve suggests
    >> that Motorola's Linux-based software isn't up to the job. If you can name
    >> a clear-cut Linux alternative, then maybe the "fragmentation" idea is
    >> wrong -- maybe it's just that no one wants anything to do with **any**
    >> Linux phones. Otherwise, you're just whistling past the graveyard again.
    >>
    >>> The new Intel Mobile Internet Devices at the various trade shows
    >>> recently from Lenovo, Gigabyte, etc are running Ubuntu Mobile, for
    >>> whatever reason Windows Mobile and Vista is a lot less conspicuous that
    >>> one would expect considering that Microsoft is so dominant in desktops.

    >>
    >> Opinions are cheap. Just as soon as you can point to some actual numbers
    >> to back yours, you be sure to let us all know.

    >
    > The 12% share for Windows which includes all those IPaqs and own branded
    > HTC smartphones says it all.
    >


    Says what? That Windows has more than twice the share of Linux? That the
    Windows share is going up while the Linux share has flattened out. That says
    what to you exactly? What's your point?

    > http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,143263/article.html
    >
    > "More than 25 low-cost notebooks based on Intel's upcoming Atom processor
    > are in the works, including models from multinational PC vendors,
    > according to the chip maker's top executive in Asia."
    >


    Changing the subject? Fine, let's talk about the cheap Linux pcs that that
    the world's largest retailer, Walmart, pulled out of its stores because they
    were wasting floor space. Let's talk about the fact that Dell's results in
    selling macjhines with Ubuntu pre-installed have failed to inspire a single
    competitor. How's thjat going, btw? I'd expect you to be hangiong on everey
    word from Ununtu hq about those sales. They do publish the numbers regularly
    don't they? I mean, it must be a proud accomplishment to sell .... what?...
    100? 200? Oh, and let's talk about how Asus sold only 350,000 Linux EEs in
    6 months, instead of the 2.5 million they originally projected. And the fact
    that they've launched new XP-based models to try to meet their target.

    > and here's the sad bit for the passionate MS fanbase.
    >
    > "I don't think you'll see a lot of Vista in this space for cost reasons,"
    > he said.


    No, it's all XP, and -- much to your disappointment -- at no extra charge,
    which is absolutely going to kill the Linux giveaway program. People looking
    for gadgets like the Eee want software tools they're familiar with and that
    work seamlessly with their mainstream desktop and notebooks hardware.
    There's no "passionate MS fanbase" involved -- just hundreds of millions of
    Window users worldwide who can't be bothered jumping on some ideological
    band wagon that's going nowhere.
     
    impossible, Apr 14, 2008
    #3
  4. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC)" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:40:17 +0000, impossible wrote:
    >
    >> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >> news:4802baef$...
    >>> impossible wrote:
    >>>> According to recent market report, looking at the combined market for
    >>>> smartphones and wireless handhelds, overall sales growth was nearly 72%
    >>>> worldwide, but there were great differences in fortune across mobile
    >>>> operating systems.
    >>>>
    >>>> Symbian had a 65% share of worldwide converged device shipments, ahead
    >>>> of
    >>>> Microsoft on 12%, RIM on 11%, Apple on 7%, and Linux on 5% By region,
    >>>> Symbian led in APAC and EMEA with 85% and 80% shares respectively,
    >>>> while
    >>>> in North America RIM was the clear leader on 42%, ahead of Apple on 27%
    >>>> and Microsoft at 21%. The study notes, of course, that Apple's iPhone
    >>>> was
    >>>> a latecomer, and so it's share of total sales is probably understated
    >>>> by
    >>>> a considerable amount.
    >>>>
    >>>> "The mobile Linux opportunity remains just that - an
    >>>> opportunity..."Total
    >>>> Linux-based phone shipments in 2007 were almost flat on 2006. There is
    >>>> still too much fragmentation and not enough momentum for any single
    >>>> open
    >>>> standard around which the energy of developers, manufacturers and
    >>>> operators can coalesce."
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3506923462.html
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008021.htm
    >>>
    >>> Yeah, manufacturers are mostly using the operating systems they own,
    >>> like
    >>> Symbian and RIM in smartphones. Users don't seem to care that their
    >>> phone
    >>> doesn't run their Windows desktop operating system.
    >>> As you say the operating system is left to the specsheet and the user
    >>> experience is the main story.
    >>> The whole segment of Linux based phones is probably accounted for by
    >>> Motorola running Montavista embedded, so the second paragraph about
    >>> "fragmentation" suggests strongly that they don't know what they are
    >>> talking about.

    >>
    >> The fact that Motorola's growth rate is way behind the curve suggests
    >> that
    >> Motorola's Linux-based software isn't up to the job. If you can name a
    >> clear-cut Linux alternative, then maybe the "fragmentation" idea is
    >> wrong --
    >> maybe it's just that no one wants anything to do with **any** Linux
    >> phones.
    >> Otherwise, you're just whistling past the graveyard again.
    >>

    >
    > So the correct outfit to point to is the corporation that developed
    > "Motorola's Linux-based software".
    >
    > Now I wonder which corporation that might be.
    >
    > Perhaps Motorola itself???
    >
    > Duh!
    >
    >


    Shooting yourself in the foot again, I see. Motorola's Linux-based software
    happens to be the **only** Linux software of any consequence in the mobile
    market. It's apparently crap, but there you go. Without it, Linux's market
    shared drops to exactly....let's see...5 % minus 5% equals...hmmm.... zero?
    That can't be right...let me double-check....yup, zero it is. Zero!!! Can
    you imagine that? Wow! That must make you feel better, eh?

    Ping all COLA fanatics. Please find another spokestroll -- CupaPee has made
    you look silly again.

    >>> The new Intel Mobile Internet Devices at the various trade shows
    >>> recently
    >>> from Lenovo, Gigabyte, etc are running Ubuntu Mobile, for whatever
    >>> reason
    >>> Windows Mobile and Vista is a lot less conspicuous that one would expect
    >>> considering that Microsoft is so dominant in desktops.

    >>
    >> Opinions are cheap. Just as soon as you can point to some actual numbers
    >> to
    >> back yours, you be sure to let us all know.
     
    impossible, Apr 15, 2008
    #4
  5. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "sam" <> wrote in message news:...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> "Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC)" <> wrote in
    >> message news:p...
    >>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:40:17 +0000, impossible wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:4802baef$...
    >>>>> impossible wrote:
    >>>>>> According to recent market report, looking at the combined market for
    >>>>>> smartphones and wireless handhelds, overall sales growth was nearly
    >>>>>> 72%
    >>>>>> worldwide, but there were great differences in fortune across mobile
    >>>>>> operating systems.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Symbian had a 65% share of worldwide converged device shipments,
    >>>>>> ahead of
    >>>>>> Microsoft on 12%, RIM on 11%, Apple on 7%, and Linux on 5% By
    >>>>>> region,
    >>>>>> Symbian led in APAC and EMEA with 85% and 80% shares respectively,
    >>>>>> while
    >>>>>> in North America RIM was the clear leader on 42%, ahead of Apple on
    >>>>>> 27%
    >>>>>> and Microsoft at 21%. The study notes, of course, that Apple's iPhone
    >>>>>> was
    >>>>>> a latecomer, and so it's share of total sales is probably understated
    >>>>>> by
    >>>>>> a considerable amount.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "The mobile Linux opportunity remains just that - an
    >>>>>> opportunity..."Total
    >>>>>> Linux-based phone shipments in 2007 were almost flat on 2006. There
    >>>>>> is
    >>>>>> still too much fragmentation and not enough momentum for any single
    >>>>>> open
    >>>>>> standard around which the energy of developers, manufacturers and
    >>>>>> operators can coalesce."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3506923462.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008021.htm
    >>>>> Yeah, manufacturers are mostly using the operating systems they own,
    >>>>> like
    >>>>> Symbian and RIM in smartphones. Users don't seem to care that their
    >>>>> phone
    >>>>> doesn't run their Windows desktop operating system.
    >>>>> As you say the operating system is left to the specsheet and the user
    >>>>> experience is the main story.
    >>>>> The whole segment of Linux based phones is probably accounted for by
    >>>>> Motorola running Montavista embedded, so the second paragraph about
    >>>>> "fragmentation" suggests strongly that they don't know what they are
    >>>>> talking about.
    >>>> The fact that Motorola's growth rate is way behind the curve suggests
    >>>> that
    >>>> Motorola's Linux-based software isn't up to the job. If you can name a
    >>>> clear-cut Linux alternative, then maybe the "fragmentation" idea is
    >>>> wrong --
    >>>> maybe it's just that no one wants anything to do with **any** Linux
    >>>> phones.
    >>>> Otherwise, you're just whistling past the graveyard again.
    >>>>
    >>> So the correct outfit to point to is the corporation that developed
    >>> "Motorola's Linux-based software".
    >>>
    >>> Now I wonder which corporation that might be.
    >>>
    >>> Perhaps Motorola itself???
    >>>
    >>> Duh!
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Shooting yourself in the foot again, I see. Motorola's Linux-based
    >> software happens to be the **only** Linux software of any consequence in
    >> the mobile market. It's apparently crap, but there you go. Without it,
    >> Linux's market shared drops to exactly....let's see...5 % minus 5%
    >> equals...hmmm.... zero? That can't be right...let me double-check....yup,
    >> zero it is. Zero!!! Can you imagine that? Wow! That must make you feel
    >> better, eh?
    >>

    >
    > According to the same Canalys report for Symbian the worldwide share for
    > linux OS on phones was quite a bit higher than Windows Mobile in Q3 of
    > 2007, in fact it looks like double, and linux was the second largest
    > smartphone OS after Symbian in Japan and China, with Windows Mobile quite
    > a way behind.


    That's right -- Q3 2006 to Q3 2007 was pretty good for Linux. But Q1,Q2, and
    Q4 year-to-year were notioceably bad, which probably accounts for the more
    recent characterization of Linux sales by canalysys as being "flat". This
    could all change in the next year -- we'll see. But it's hard to ignore the
    impact that the iPhone has had. Everyone else is playing catch-up now with
    their software -- we'll see how things shake out.


    > Microsoft got a boost when the Treo switched from Palm to Windows, but
    > hasn't done much since.
    >


    Yes, I think Windows Mobile has great appeal for MS Office buisness users,
    but that's a relatively high-end, low-volume market.

    > http://developer.symbian.com/main/g...dUp/SymbianMarketRound-UpIssue2Oct07FINAL.pdf
    >
    > Phone chip companies like TI, Quallcom Marvell and Freescale are showing
    > concept models now running Google Android on the likes of Wind River
    > embedded linux, so that will probably work its way through to handset
    > plastic later this year.
    > There has been quite a chorus of that whistling past the graveyard you
    > mentioned coming from Symbian, Microsoft and other encumbents.


    When the numbers tick over next quarter, you're more than welcome to come
    back and say "I told you so". If you're right, that is ;)
     
    impossible, Apr 15, 2008
    #5
  6. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "Bret" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:49:11 GMT, impossible wrote:
    >
    >> "Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC)" <> wrote in
    >> message
    >> news:p...
    >>> On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 03:40:17 +0000, impossible wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:4802baef$...
    >>>>> impossible wrote:
    >>>>>> According to recent market report, looking at the combined market for
    >>>>>> smartphones and wireless handhelds, overall sales growth was nearly
    >>>>>> 72%
    >>>>>> worldwide, but there were great differences in fortune across mobile
    >>>>>> operating systems.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Symbian had a 65% share of worldwide converged device shipments,
    >>>>>> ahead
    >>>>>> of
    >>>>>> Microsoft on 12%, RIM on 11%, Apple on 7%, and Linux on 5% By
    >>>>>> region,
    >>>>>> Symbian led in APAC and EMEA with 85% and 80% shares respectively,
    >>>>>> while
    >>>>>> in North America RIM was the clear leader on 42%, ahead of Apple on
    >>>>>> 27%
    >>>>>> and Microsoft at 21%. The study notes, of course, that Apple's iPhone
    >>>>>> was
    >>>>>> a latecomer, and so it's share of total sales is probably understated
    >>>>>> by
    >>>>>> a considerable amount.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "The mobile Linux opportunity remains just that - an
    >>>>>> opportunity..."Total
    >>>>>> Linux-based phone shipments in 2007 were almost flat on 2006. There
    >>>>>> is
    >>>>>> still too much fragmentation and not enough momentum for any single
    >>>>>> open
    >>>>>> standard around which the energy of developers, manufacturers and
    >>>>>> operators can coalesce."
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3506923462.html
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.canalys.com/pr/2008/r2008021.htm
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Yeah, manufacturers are mostly using the operating systems they own,
    >>>>> like
    >>>>> Symbian and RIM in smartphones. Users don't seem to care that their
    >>>>> phone
    >>>>> doesn't run their Windows desktop operating system.
    >>>>> As you say the operating system is left to the specsheet and the user
    >>>>> experience is the main story.
    >>>>> The whole segment of Linux based phones is probably accounted for by
    >>>>> Motorola running Montavista embedded, so the second paragraph about
    >>>>> "fragmentation" suggests strongly that they don't know what they are
    >>>>> talking about.
    >>>>
    >>>> The fact that Motorola's growth rate is way behind the curve suggests
    >>>> that
    >>>> Motorola's Linux-based software isn't up to the job. If you can name a
    >>>> clear-cut Linux alternative, then maybe the "fragmentation" idea is
    >>>> wrong --
    >>>> maybe it's just that no one wants anything to do with **any** Linux
    >>>> phones.
    >>>> Otherwise, you're just whistling past the graveyard again.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> So the correct outfit to point to is the corporation that developed
    >>> "Motorola's Linux-based software".
    >>>
    >>> Now I wonder which corporation that might be.
    >>>
    >>> Perhaps Motorola itself???
    >>>
    >>> Duh!
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Shooting yourself in the foot again, I see. Motorola's Linux-based
    >> software
    >> happens to be the **only** Linux software of any consequence in the
    >> mobile
    >> market. It's apparently crap, but there you go. Without it, Linux's
    >> market
    >> shared drops to exactly....let's see...5 % minus 5% equals...hmmm....
    >> zero?
    >> That can't be right...let me double-check....yup, zero it is. Zero!!! Can
    >> you imagine that? Wow! That must make you feel better, eh?
    >>
    >> Ping all COLA fanatics. Please find another spokestroll -- CupaPee has
    >> made
    >> you look silly again.
    >>
    >>>>> The new Intel Mobile Internet Devices at the various trade shows
    >>>>> recently
    >>>>> from Lenovo, Gigabyte, etc are running Ubuntu Mobile, for whatever
    >>>>> reason
    >>>>> Windows Mobile and Vista is a lot less conspicuous that one would
    >>>>> expect
    >>>>> considering that Microsoft is so dominant in desktops.
    >>>>
    >>>> Opinions are cheap. Just as soon as you can point to some actual
    >>>> numbers
    >>>> to
    >>>> back yours, you be sure to let us all know.

    >
    > And you're so proud defeating the village idiot LOL@U


    Nah, just passing through.
     
    impossible, Apr 15, 2008
    #6
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