Linux Pushers

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by John Williams, Jul 30, 2005.

  1. Whats with all you linux pushes in this group, every thread is turned
    into a linux vs windows debate, is linux a religion??, do you guys go
    out door knocking trying to convert people over to linux??.

    Whats with all the "dimdows" references etc, get a bloody grip on
    reality!, if people choose to use "Windows", let them use it, i have no
    problem at all with anybody that uses linux, if thats the operating
    system that you prefer , then go for it, but to be pushing linux in to
    pretty much every thread in nz.comp is just plain aggorant!.

    Bling Bling & Lawrence D Oliverio, you two, yes im talking to you, are
    the biggest pushers in here, if it were drugs you would be locked up by
    now, how about when replying to a thread that doesn't have anything to
    do with linux, try and keep it that way, telling the poster that he is
    an idiot for using "dimdows" is im sure pissing a lot more people off
    than just me!.

    If someone asks a linux question then help that person out, thats what
    you guys know about, then that is great, just keep the silly kiddy
    school holiday comments to yourself, real easy to do if you are adult
    enough.

    Thats my piece, im sure you guys will have plenty to say, but all i ask
    is that you let windows users use their operating system of choice,
    after all it is their choice, not yours!.

    John
    John Williams, Jul 30, 2005
    #1
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  2. John Williams

    Harry Guest

    John Williams wrote:

    > Whats with all you linux pushes in this group, every thread is turned
    > into a linux vs windows debate, is linux a religion??, do you guys go
    > out door knocking trying to convert people over to linux??.


    Maybe if you used Linux more instead of Windows then you'd
    have a better understanding of the situation.
    Harry, Jul 30, 2005
    #2
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  3. John Williams

    steve Guest

    John Williams wrote:
    > Whats with all you linux pushes in this group, every thread is turned
    > into a linux vs windows debate, is linux a religion??, do you guys go
    > out door knocking trying to convert people over to linux??.


    There are a lot of linux users in this newsgroup.....so you will hear
    more about it here.

    > Whats with all the "dimdows" references etc, get a bloody grip on
    > reality!, if people choose to use "Windows", let them use it, i have no
    > problem at all with anybody that uses linux, if thats the operating
    > system that you prefer , then go for it, but to be pushing linux in to
    > pretty much every thread in nz.comp is just plain aggorant!.


    Well....I know many people don't see Windows users as typically having
    made a "choice".

    Generally, the people who made a choice built their own systems and then
    obtained the OS to run on it. People buying pre-built systems from
    major vendors don't actually get a choice.

    Not at point of purchase, anyway. That would be 90% of PC users.

    > Bling Bling & Lawrence D Oliverio, you two, yes im talking to you, are
    > the biggest pushers in here, if it were drugs you would be locked up by
    > now, how about when replying to a thread that doesn't have anything to
    > do with linux, try and keep it that way, telling the poster that he is
    > an idiot for using "dimdows" is im sure pissing a lot more people off
    > than just me!.


    ....and the we have other posters referring to Linux a "Loonix"......and
    no one cries themselves to sleep. :)

    > If someone asks a linux question then help that person out, thats what
    > you guys know about, then that is great, just keep the silly kiddy
    > school holiday comments to yourself, real easy to do if you are adult
    > enough.


    Well....there is another situation. When we see a Windows user
    struggling with a problem that is essentially a problem for Windows
    users....and no one else...then I do often feel it appropriate to let
    the poor sod know he doesn't HAVE to carry on suffering.....there IS a
    better way (with respect to THAT problem, anyway).

    Then if the problem proves to be a big one....the user is better able to
    decide as to whether they want a Windows solution to that problem....or
    a solution to Windows problems generally.

    > Thats my piece, im sure you guys will have plenty to say, but all i ask
    > is that you let windows users use their operating system of choice,
    > after all it is their choice, not yours!.
    >
    > John


    Agreement (or not) on the presumption of informed choice aside, we
    should all be as polite and civil as you have been.
    steve, Jul 30, 2005
    #3
  4. On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:34:13 +1200, steve
    <> wrote:

    >Well....I know many people don't see Windows users as typically having
    >made a "choice".


    "Many" being maybe 1% od the entire population of Nz
    In other words not many atall

    >Generally, the people who made a choice built their own systems and then
    > obtained the OS to run on it. People buying pre-built systems from
    >major vendors don't actually get a choice.


    Bullshit
    plenty of macs availble
    FreedomChooser, Jul 30, 2005
    #4
  5. On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:48:55 +0000, someone purporting to be
    FreedomChooser didst scrawl:

    > On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:34:13 +1200, steve
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>Well....I know many people don't see Windows users as typically having
    >>made a "choice".

    >
    > "Many" being maybe 1% od the entire population of Nz
    > In other words not many atall
    >

    Anyone who's given it any thought. And if that's only 1% of the
    population, then that's a rather sorry state of affairs. Still, that'd be
    40,000 people, so it's a start.

    >>Generally, the people who made a choice built their own systems and then
    >> obtained the OS to run on it. People buying pre-built systems from
    >>major vendors don't actually get a choice.

    >
    > Bullshit
    > plenty of macs availble


    Sorry, which part of "People buying pre-built systems from major vendors
    don't actually get a choice" passed you by? That applies to Macs, too.
    And in any case, people don't usually buy a Mac just for the fact that
    it's not Windows.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
    Matthew Poole, Jul 30, 2005
    #5
  6. John Williams

    H.O.G Guest

    On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 23:12:20 +1200, Matthew Poole <>
    spoke these fine words:

    >On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:48:55 +0000, someone purporting to be
    >FreedomChooser didst scrawl:
    >
    >> On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:34:13 +1200, steve
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Well....I know many people don't see Windows users as typically having
    >>>made a "choice".

    >>
    >> "Many" being maybe 1% od the entire population of Nz
    >> In other words not many atall
    >>

    >Anyone who's given it any thought. And if that's only 1% of the
    >population, then that's a rather sorry state of affairs. Still, that'd be
    >40,000 people, so it's a start.


    Man, the arrogance of you Linux idiots* amazes me every day. I've
    given it a lot of thought. I've used both extensively. I choose
    Windows for the desktop, along with many millions of other happy PC
    users. It is a fucking tool, for god's sake, not a religious debate. I
    use Windows because it lets me do what I want to do quickly and
    easily. Sure it cost me a couple of hundred dollars, but who gives a
    shit? I use it every day! My car cost a heck of a lot more, and so did
    my cellphone.

    I use Windows because it is better for what I want to do. Full stop.
    It is more polished than any version of Linux I've ever tried, and if
    something goes wrong (which is a heck of a lot less common than with
    Linux), it is generally easy to fix.

    I use Linux for some things that I feel it is better suited for (web
    servers and firewalls, generally).

    I happily run a virus scanner. It cost about $60 a year. Who cares. I
    can afford $1 a week.

    [* This is not to say that all Linux users are idiots. Not by a long
    shot. It's more a case that those that treat their operating system as
    a religious debate are.]

    >>>Generally, the people who made a choice built their own systems and then
    >>> obtained the OS to run on it. People buying pre-built systems from
    >>>major vendors don't actually get a choice.

    >>
    >> Bullshit
    >> plenty of macs availble

    >
    >Sorry, which part of "People buying pre-built systems from major vendors
    >don't actually get a choice" passed you by? That applies to Macs, too.
    >And in any case, people don't usually buy a Mac just for the fact that
    >it's not Windows.


    Of course that's why people buy Macs. Wake up.
    H.O.G, Jul 30, 2005
    #6
  7. John Williams

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 00:15:16 +1200, H.O.G wrote:

    > I use Windows because it
    > lets me do what I want to do quickly and easily.


    Funny that - but that's one of the reasons why I use KDE on Linux as my
    desktop.

    Another reason why I use Linux is that by doing so I'm not unnecessarily
    giving my money to a convicted monopolist.


    Bling Bling

    --
    Fink: "The Linux market is growing 30% to 35% a year."
    Bling-Bling, Jul 30, 2005
    #7
  8. John Williams

    Bling-Bling Guest

    On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 00:15:16 +1200, H.O.G wrote:

    >>Sorry, which part of "People buying pre-built systems from major vendors
    >>don't actually get a choice" passed you by? That applies to Macs, too.
    >>And in any case, people don't usually buy a Mac just for the fact that
    >>it's not Windows.

    >
    > Of course that's why people buy Macs. Wake up.


    If people buy a Mac then they are buying a bsd-Unix box.


    Bling Bling

    --
    Fink: "The Linux market is growing 30% to 35% a year."
    Bling-Bling, Jul 30, 2005
    #8
  9. John Williams

    H.O.G Guest

    On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 01:50:11 +1200, Bling-Bling
    <> spoke these fine words:

    >On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 00:15:16 +1200, H.O.G wrote:
    >
    >> I use Windows because it
    >> lets me do what I want to do quickly and easily.

    >
    >Funny that - but that's one of the reasons why I use KDE on Linux as my
    >desktop.


    Good for you, if it works better for you.

    >Another reason why I use Linux is that by doing so I'm not unnecessarily
    >giving my money to a convicted monopolist.
    >

    I suspect this has more to do with it than your first reason. Me? I'm
    happy to pay for my tools.

    I'm guessing you don't have a phone (with monopolistic Telecom,
    anyway), don't watch TV (well, at least not TVNZ), definately don't
    dialup through Xtra (the biggest virtual monopoly ISP in NZ), Don't
    buy Fisher and Paykel appliances or Black and Decker tools, and don't
    follow any sport (after all, it's not fair that (a) NZRU, for example,
    should have such a monopoly on rugby, and that (b) you actually have
    to PAY to go see the game!!).

    I guess the big question is, have you purchased a boxed set for your
    favourite distro, and do you contribute financially to your favourite
    projects? Have you ever contributed a single line of code to Linux in
    your life?

    If you haven't answered yes to anything in the paragraph above, I
    would say it has more to do with it being "free" than "freedom".
    Especially combined with your previously stated disdain for anyone who
    earns more than a beneficiary (that conversation we had where you also
    stated that people should be taxed at 90%, because their money
    belonged to the country rather than people individually), and we start
    to paint a picture of both you and your motivations very clearly.
    H.O.G, Jul 30, 2005
    #9
  10. John Williams

    H.O.G Guest

    On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 01:51:59 +1200, Bling-Bling
    <> spoke these fine words:

    >On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 00:15:16 +1200, H.O.G wrote:
    >
    >>>Sorry, which part of "People buying pre-built systems from major vendors
    >>>don't actually get a choice" passed you by? That applies to Macs, too.
    >>>And in any case, people don't usually buy a Mac just for the fact that
    >>>it's not Windows.

    >>
    >> Of course that's why people buy Macs. Wake up.

    >
    >If people buy a Mac then they are buying a bsd-Unix box.
    >

    Point being?
    H.O.G, Jul 30, 2005
    #10
  11. John Williams

    Shane Guest

    *snip interesting post*
    > John


    Quiet saturday night huh?
    Had to stir up the linux and windows trolls didnt you :p
    If you watch it does go both ways, and if you filter out the flames(is
    that the right word), you will find by and large everyone is here to
    help/discuss computer related guff/pick on each other (oops I'm not meant
    to tell you that) Even the trolls will help from time to time ;-)


    --
    Hardware, n.: The parts of a computer system that can be kicked

    The best way to get the right answer on usenet is to post the wrong one.
    Shane, Jul 30, 2005
    #11
  12. John Williams wrote:
    > Whats with all the "dimdows" references etc, get a bloody grip on
    > reality!, if people choose to use "Windows", let them use it, i have no
    > problem at all with anybody that uses linux, if thats the operating
    > system that you prefer , then go for it, but to be pushing linux in to
    > pretty much every thread in nz.comp is just plain aggorant!.


    Linux isn't an operating system, it is just a kernel with userland tools
    created by anyone who wants to contribute or bundle together code,
    rubbish or quality, and call it a distribution.

    I don't mind people suggesting Linux or Linux-based solutions if the
    original poster doesn't specify the OS they are using, or where the task
    is best performed by a standalone system. E.g. it is appropriate to
    suggest a Linux system be used as a firewall, but probably not as a
    solution to Windows crashing (which itself is probably due to poor third
    party drivers, and not Windows itself).

    > Thats my piece, im sure you guys will have plenty to say, but all i ask
    > is that you let windows users use their operating system of choice,
    > after all it is their choice, not yours!.


    I use Windows 2000 and have no plans of changing my desktop OS, although
    I am watching ReactOS closely. I've tried using FreeBSD (Which is a *BSD
    distribution, not Linux) on the desktop, but there is simply too much
    variation in how the various X-based widgets function and interoperate
    to make it a pleasant experience. I'd recommdend FreeBSD ahead of any
    Linux distribution for use in a server environment, with the possible
    exception of some Linux distributions that are designed for very
    specific purposes.

    The Other Guy
    The Other Guy, Jul 30, 2005
    #12
  13. John Williams

    Epsom, Surry Guest

    On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:06:42 +1000, Harry <>
    wrote:

    >John Williams wrote:
    >
    >Maybe if you used Linux more instead of Windows then you'd
    >have a better understanding of the situation.


    what 'situation', if you wish to use linux, fine, go for it but why
    the silly putdowns of other os's...
    never any talk of all the bugs in firefox or negative talk of linux
    issues
    Epsom, Surry, Jul 30, 2005
    #13
  14. John Williams

    thingy Guest

    Epsom, Surry wrote:
    > On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 19:06:42 +1000, Harry <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>John Williams wrote:
    >>
    >>Maybe if you used Linux more instead of Windows then you'd
    >>have a better understanding of the situation.

    >
    >
    > what 'situation', if you wish to use linux, fine, go for it but why
    > the silly putdowns of other os's...
    > never any talk of all the bugs in firefox or negative talk of linux
    > issues



    Its retaliation to MS itself, if someone called you names and insulted
    you all day wouldnt you bite back?

    Quite a few of us have to put up with MS consultants coming in and
    throwing FUD at anything non-MS. At times it feels like a cancer, they
    come in to do one job and before you know it they are trying to get
    other servers swapped over to MS "as its so much better" truth is we
    have more and repetitive issues with the MS side of things than the MAC,
    Linux and Unix stuff combined....

    I have had 2 unix callouts in a year, I usually 1 or 2 MS callouts per
    callout period, things like their so called clustering hi availability
    stuff blows up and the lot goes....

    I really object to spending my off time repairing their crap.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Jul 30, 2005
    #14
  15. John Williams

    Richard Guest

    John Williams wrote:

    > Thats my piece, im sure you guys will have plenty to say, but all i ask
    > is that you let windows users use their operating system of choice,
    > after all it is their choice, not yours!.


    I liken the linux pushers to jehovas witnesses and labour supporters. they have
    trouble accepting that different people have different views on things that are
    equally as valid as there own, and instead try to convince you that there way is
    the only way without listening to reasoning that the other way may actually be
    better, as they cant think for themselves and are only repeating what they were
    told to make them believe that way.
    Richard, Jul 30, 2005
    #15
  16. John Williams

    Peter Guest

    H.O.G wrote:
    > I'm guessing you don't have a phone (with monopolistic Telecom,
    > anyway), don't watch TV (well, at least not TVNZ), definately don't
    > dialup through Xtra (the biggest virtual monopoly ISP in NZ), Don't
    > buy Fisher and Paykel appliances or Black and Decker tools, and don't
    > follow any sport (after all, it's not fair that (a) NZRU, for example,
    > should have such a monopoly on rugby, and that (b) you actually have
    > to PAY to go see the game!!).


    Those aren't accurate comparisons. For example, an ordinary consumer can
    readily find alternative brands of appliances to F&P. And, NZRFU doesn't
    use it's monopoly in rugby to try and dominate other codes, eg by
    contracting clothing suppliers to not supply for any other code.
    You're correct about Telecom being a monopoly, and NZ suffers for it. We
    have higher cost and lower telecom services as a result.

    Microsoft is in a different league to the companies you cite. MS uses its
    monopoly position in unlawful ways to drive out competitors and stifle new
    innovations. (This isn't opinion, it has been established in court.)


    Peter
    Peter, Jul 31, 2005
    #16
  17. John Williams

    MarkH Guest

    H.O.G <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 01:50:11 +1200, Bling-Bling
    ><> spoke these fine words:
    >
    >>On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 00:15:16 +1200, H.O.G wrote:
    >>
    >>> I use Windows because it
    >>> lets me do what I want to do quickly and easily.

    >>
    >>Funny that - but that's one of the reasons why I use KDE on Linux as
    >>my desktop.

    >
    > Good for you, if it works better for you.
    >
    >>Another reason why I use Linux is that by doing so I'm not
    >>unnecessarily giving my money to a convicted monopolist.
    >>

    > I suspect this has more to do with it than your first reason. Me? I'm
    > happy to pay for my tools.


    I agree.

    > I'm guessing you don't have a phone (with monopolistic Telecom,
    > anyway), don't watch TV (well, at least not TVNZ), definately don't
    > dialup through Xtra (the biggest virtual monopoly ISP in NZ), Don't
    > buy Fisher and Paykel appliances or Black and Decker tools, and don't
    > follow any sport (after all, it's not fair that (a) NZRU, for example,
    > should have such a monopoly on rugby, and that (b) you actually have
    > to PAY to go see the game!!).


    Hmmm, well I don't have my Cell phone service with Telecom, buy I do
    have a landline with them. I don't watch much TV and almost never watch
    TVNZ, mainly because most programs I like are on TV3 (or downloaded). I
    don't use Xtra. I do have a Fisher & Paykel fridge, but recently bought
    a Bosch washing machine because I believe it is better than anything F&P
    offer. I do have some B&D tools. I don't follow rugby at all, but I
    follow motorsports despite the monopoly the FIA has.

    But of course I have nothing against anyone who chooses differently to
    me, especially when their choice works out better than my choice would
    for them. In other words - if I choose Vodafone and think they are
    better, but you text a lot and the telecom plan saves you money, then I
    will agree that you have made the right choice and so have I.

    I have nothing against Linux or Linux users and I have nothing against
    Windows or Windows users. I don't however like the childish dicks that
    have to insult other users, just because they make a different choice.

    I am typing this on an Intel based PC running WinXP and I am using XNews
    but with the text editor shelling out to MS Word to type my message. I
    also like and use MS Outlook 2003. If anyone out there doesn't like
    these things then they don't have to use them. I make my choices and
    everyone else is free to make theirs.

    One last point:
    Linux is gaining popularity, but I am sure that it is not helped by the
    childish twits that insult MS, the rantings of the loonies are not what
    sways the rest of us. Most people that are happy with Windows will
    stick with it, Linux gains users as the users get pissed off with MS.
    In other words - if some twit on the internet that is frothing at the
    mouth is pissed off with MS Windows then I will continue to use Windows,
    if I am pissed off with Windows then I may decide to change to something
    else.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 25-June-05)
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
    MarkH, Jul 31, 2005
    #17
  18. John Williams

    Bruce Hoult Guest

    In article <>,
    H.O.G <> wrote:

    > >>>Well....I know many people don't see Windows users as typically having
    > >>>made a "choice".
    > >>
    > >> "Many" being maybe 1% od the entire population of Nz
    > >> In other words not many atall
    > >>

    > >Anyone who's given it any thought. And if that's only 1% of the
    > >population, then that's a rather sorry state of affairs. Still, that'd be
    > >40,000 people, so it's a start.

    >
    > Man, the arrogance of you Linux idiots* amazes me every day. I've
    > given it a lot of thought. I've used both extensively. I choose
    > Windows for the desktop, along with many millions of other happy PC
    > users.


    Good for you. I don't have a problem with that.

    My experience, though, is that most people don't choose windows and
    don't even know that they *have* a choice of operating systems -- or
    what an operating system is, or that matter. Most of those people don't
    do anything with a computer that they couldn't equally well do on a Mac
    or Linux, and with a lot fewer problems if the infestation-ridden
    machines I am called upon to fix at relatives houses are any indication.


    > >Sorry, which part of "People buying pre-built systems from major vendors
    > >don't actually get a choice" passed you by? That applies to Macs, too.
    > >And in any case, people don't usually buy a Mac just for the fact that
    > >it's not Windows.

    >
    > Of course that's why people buy Macs. Wake up.


    It is? Does that apply to those of us who bought Macs before Windows
    even existed?

    --
    Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
    Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------
    Bruce Hoult, Jul 31, 2005
    #18
  19. John Williams

    thingy Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > John Williams wrote:
    >
    >> Thats my piece, im sure you guys will have plenty to say, but all i
    >> ask is that you let windows users use their operating system of
    >> choice, after all it is their choice, not yours!.

    >
    >
    > I liken the linux pushers to jehovas witnesses and labour supporters.
    > they have trouble accepting that different people have different views
    > on things that are equally as valid as there own, and instead try to
    > convince you that there way is the only way without listening to
    > reasoning that the other way may actually be better, as they cant think
    > for themselves and are only repeating what they were told to make them
    > believe that way.



    No better than the Nasty Nats. I have had huge arguments with MS people
    who only see MS solutions...they are quite prepared to rip perfectly
    good and working stuff out with no better justification than its not MS.

    regards

    Thing
    thingy, Jul 31, 2005
    #19
  20. On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:01:43 +1200, The Other Guy wrote:

    > I use Windows 2000 and have no plans of changing my desktop OS, although
    > I am watching ReactOS closely. I've tried using FreeBSD (Which is a *BSD
    > distribution, not Linux) on the desktop, but there is simply too much
    > variation in how the various X-based widgets function and interoperate
    > to make it a pleasant experience. I'd recommdend FreeBSD ahead of any
    > Linux distribution for use in a server environment, with the possible
    > exception of some Linux distributions that are designed for very
    > specific purposes.


    I'll admit that Knoppix has come quite far in terms of ease of use. I gave
    it to my fiance's parents, who had a computer with a dead hard drive, and
    then low and behold, they had a working computer again. So they weren't
    happy about the fact that they had to reinstall a printer everytime they
    restarted the machine, on the plus side, the reboot button was a pretty
    effective anti-virus solution.

    I had a look at CentOS as a new kind of desktop GUI, but I didn't like it.
    Perhaps I'm too ingrained on the taskbar/start menu way of thinking.

    I'm still not too sure which OS I'd prefer to use day to day, Windows has
    such tight integration with my Pocket PC that I'd probably use Windows a
    fair bit. But on the other hand, linux has so much open source software to
    tinker around with, it's a difficult decision. I still wouldn't recommend
    linux to my parents though. Or windows for that matter. Perhaps a
    playstation two. The GUI's pretty easy to use.

    --
    Regards,

    Waylon Kenning.
    Waylon Kenning, Jul 31, 2005
    #20
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