Linux is starting to cost money...

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Dave Doe, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. Dave Doe

    Dave Doe Guest

    I'm looking to mirror up a Windows env. - thus expanding my skills
    (currently quite limited when it come to Linux).

    I have a few domains that I run email and sites for - and most of those
    sites are running Dotnetnuke (CMS). This backends to SQL Server.

    So the Win env. is a bit like this: IIS, Exchange Server, SQL Server.
    That's the guts of it.

    I will have a spare box soon, and was thinking of following an article
    on howtoforge on setting up a Mandriva Spring Server and guff to do the
    same as above. Here's the link to the article:
    http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_server_mandriva_spring_2007

    I'm not sure I can run this on the old box, so I've pledged to have a go
    with Gentoo - on my own.

    Anyway... one of the linux replacment products (for the CMS) will,
    obviously/probably, be phpNuke.

    Only I went to their site today - and fuk me, it's not free anymore!

    I'm a little alarmed by this increasing trend for linux devs of various
    types (whether OS or other) that are beginning to compulsorily charge
    for what amounts to development and distribution costs.

    Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's small/negligible)
    - but about this trend to *have to pay*.

    --
    Duncan
     
    Dave Doe, Jul 26, 2007
    #1
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  2. Dave Doe

    Crains Guest

    Dave Doe wrote:
    > I'm looking to mirror up a Windows env. - thus expanding my skills
    > (currently quite limited when it come to Linux).
    >
    > I have a few domains that I run email and sites for - and most of
    > those sites are running Dotnetnuke (CMS). This backends to SQL
    > Server.
    >
    > So the Win env. is a bit like this: IIS, Exchange Server, SQL Server.
    > That's the guts of it.
    >
    > I will have a spare box soon, and was thinking of following an article
    > on howtoforge on setting up a Mandriva Spring Server and guff to do
    > the same as above. Here's the link to the article:
    > http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_server_mandriva_spring_2007
    >
    > I'm not sure I can run this on the old box, so I've pledged to have a
    > go with Gentoo - on my own.
    >
    > Anyway... one of the linux replacment products (for the CMS) will,
    > obviously/probably, be phpNuke.
    >
    > Only I went to their site today - and fuk me, it's not free anymore!
    >
    > I'm a little alarmed by this increasing trend for linux devs of
    > various types (whether OS or other) that are beginning to
    > compulsorily charge for what amounts to development and distribution
    > costs.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's
    > small/negligible) - but about this trend to *have to pay*.


    Woaah... when did this happen. I can't believe I never heard anything about
    this until now but sure enough, its no longer free.

    I've used phpnuke in the past but I guess this is the end of that. thank
    goodness there is drupal
     
    Crains, Jul 26, 2007
    #2
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  3. Dave Doe

    sam Guest

    Dave Doe wrote:
    <snip>
    >
    > Anyway... one of the linux replacment products (for the CMS) will,
    > obviously/probably, be phpNuke.
    >
    > Only I went to their site today - and fuk me, it's not free anymore!
    >
    > I'm a little alarmed by this increasing trend for linux devs of various
    > types (whether OS or other) that are beginning to compulsorily charge
    > for what amounts to development and distribution costs.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's small/negligible)
    > - but about this trend to *have to pay*.
    >


    phpNuke is cross-platform
    Why do you think it is "linux"?
     
    sam, Jul 26, 2007
    #3
  4. On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:29:09 +1200, Dave Doe wrote:


    > Only I went to their site today - and fuk me, it's not free anymore!
    >
    > I'm a little alarmed by this increasing trend for linux devs of various
    > types (whether OS or other) that are beginning to compulsorily charge
    > for what amounts to development and distribution costs.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's small/negligible)
    > - but about this trend to *have to pay*.
    >


    It seems like it is still free, in the sense that it is still licensed
    under the GPL, and the fee is just a distribution fee, like paying for a
    linux cd at dick smiths. It should still be perfectly ok to receive it
    from an alternative distributor free of charge, and still have at least the
    same product, license etc as the version that cost money to download.

    I could be wrong though, please correct me in that case.
     
    Kurt Häusler, Jul 26, 2007
    #4
  5. Dave Doe

    Allistar Guest

    Dave Doe wrote:

    > I'm looking to mirror up a Windows env. - thus expanding my skills
    > (currently quite limited when it come to Linux).
    >
    > I have a few domains that I run email and sites for - and most of those
    > sites are running Dotnetnuke (CMS). This backends to SQL Server.
    >
    > So the Win env. is a bit like this: IIS, Exchange Server, SQL Server.
    > That's the guts of it.
    >
    > I will have a spare box soon, and was thinking of following an article
    > on howtoforge on setting up a Mandriva Spring Server and guff to do the
    > same as above. Here's the link to the article:
    > http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_server_mandriva_spring_2007
    >
    > I'm not sure I can run this on the old box, so I've pledged to have a go
    > with Gentoo - on my own.


    I run Gentoo as my preferred distribution (and have done for a few years).
    The learning curve is steep and you'll have to do some things by hand. It
    does become second nature though. For a newbie, I'd question whether any
    performance gains is worth the time investment though - having said that
    there is no better way to learn Linux than with a distribution that is more
    customisable like Gentoo.

    > Anyway... one of the linux replacment products (for the CMS) will,
    > obviously/probably, be phpNuke.
    >
    > Only I went to their site today - and fuk me, it's not free anymore!


    This is hardly "Linux starting to cost money". It's phpNuke starting to cost
    money.

    > I'm a little alarmed by this increasing trend for linux devs of various
    > types (whether OS or other) that are beginning to compulsorily charge
    > for what amounts to development and distribution costs.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's small/negligible)
    > - but about this trend to *have to pay*.


    There has been commercial software for Linux available for ages. That's no
    news.

    Allistar.
     
    Allistar, Jul 26, 2007
    #5
  6. Dave Doe wrote:
    > I'm looking to mirror up a Windows env. - thus expanding my skills
    > (currently quite limited when it come to Linux).
    >
    > I have a few domains that I run email and sites for - and most of those
    > sites are running Dotnetnuke (CMS). This backends to SQL Server.
    >
    > So the Win env. is a bit like this: IIS, Exchange Server, SQL Server.
    > That's the guts of it.
    >
    > I will have a spare box soon, and was thinking of following an article
    > on howtoforge on setting up a Mandriva Spring Server and guff to do the
    > same as above. Here's the link to the article:
    > http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_server_mandriva_spring_2007
    >
    > I'm not sure I can run this on the old box, so I've pledged to have a go
    > with Gentoo - on my own.
    >
    > Anyway... one of the linux replacment products (for the CMS) will,
    > obviously/probably, be phpNuke.
    >
    > Only I went to their site today - and fuk me, it's not free anymore!
    >
    > I'm a little alarmed by this increasing trend for linux devs of various
    > types (whether OS or other) that are beginning to compulsorily charge
    > for what amounts to development and distribution costs.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's small/negligible)
    > - but about this trend to *have to pay*.


    Phpnuke has an abysmal security record. Last time I looked they charged for the
    current patched version and would give the six month old version away for free
    allowing any script kiddie can march in and pwn you.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=phpnuke vulnerability

    Mind you, php itself seems to be pretty dodgy. There was a wee scandal a while
    back when one of the developers quit complaining that the proprietors were
    ignoring security issues. This gave rise to a 'month of php bugs' which
    produced a huge list of php vulnerabilities which are still being addressed.
    The cynical amongst us may say that the state of php was a fiendish plot to
    backdoors a huge proportion of websites to the advantage of security services.
    Naturally I would never suggest such a thing.

    http://www.opensourcecms.com/

    is well worth spending some time with as you make your decision.

    I think the easiest way to get up and running with your project would be to
    install an ubuntu LAMP server and then install your selected cms on top of that.

    http://www.howtoforge.com/node/1388
     
    Mark Robinson, Jul 26, 2007
    #6
  7. On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:29:09 +1200, Dave Doe wrote:

    > Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's small/negligible) -
    > but about this trend to *have to pay*.


    So...

    Who pays for the bandwidth for that website?


    --
    Jonathan Walker

    "You'll have to excuse me — I have a long
    bath and a short dress to get into."
     
    Jonathan Walker, Jul 26, 2007
    #7
  8. Dave Doe

    thingy Guest

    Dave Doe wrote:
    > I'm looking to mirror up a Windows env. - thus expanding my skills
    > (currently quite limited when it come to Linux).
    >
    > I have a few domains that I run email and sites for - and most of those
    > sites are running Dotnetnuke (CMS). This backends to SQL Server.
    >
    > So the Win env. is a bit like this: IIS, Exchange Server, SQL Server.
    > That's the guts of it.
    >
    > I will have a spare box soon, and was thinking of following an article
    > on howtoforge on setting up a Mandriva Spring Server and guff to do the
    > same as above. Here's the link to the article:
    > http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect_server_mandriva_spring_2007
    >
    > I'm not sure I can run this on the old box, so I've pledged to have a go
    > with Gentoo - on my own.
    >
    > Anyway... one of the linux replacment products (for the CMS) will,
    > obviously/probably, be phpNuke.
    >
    > Only I went to their site today - and fuk me, it's not free anymore!
    >
    > I'm a little alarmed by this increasing trend for linux devs of various
    > types (whether OS or other) that are beginning to compulsorily charge
    > for what amounts to development and distribution costs.
    >
    > Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's small/negligible)
    > - but about this trend to *have to pay*.
    >


    ****LINUX**** does not cost anything apart from if you pay for the
    download and the CDR's to burn the ISO(s). Please use the term OSS....

    It is within the GPL conditions to charge for distribution costs,
    hosting a server does cost money, someone somewhere is paying that fee
    for you to freely download. All they are saying is meet my cost please
    or I will not be able to do this....

    Commercial applications are often not free, guaranteed support is often
    not free...

    Free is a very poor reason to use an application/OS unless that is the
    conscious over-riding consideration....ie you are broke...

    regards

    thing
     
    thingy, Jul 27, 2007
    #8
  9. Dave Doe

    Gordon Guest

    On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:06:42 +1200, thingy wrote:

    > Dave Doe wrote:

    [Snip]

    >> Anyway... one of the linux replacment products (for the CMS) will,
    >> obviously/probably, be phpNuke.
    >>
    >> Only I went to their site today - and fuk me, it's not free anymore!
    >>
    >> I'm a little alarmed by this increasing trend for linux devs of various
    >> types (whether OS or other) that are beginning to compulsorily charge
    >> for what amounts to development and distribution costs.
    >>
    >> Don't get me wrong I don't care about the price (it's small/negligible)
    >> - but about this trend to *have to pay*.
    >>
    >>

    > ****LINUX**** does not cost anything apart from if you pay for the
    > download and the CDR's to burn the ISO(s). Please use the term OSS....
    >
    > It is within the GPL conditions to charge for distribution costs,
    > hosting a server does cost money, someone somewhere is paying that fee
    > for you to freely download. All they are saying is meet my cost please
    > or I will not be able to do this....
    >
    > Commercial applications are often not free, guaranteed support is often
    > not free...
    >
    > Free is a very poor reason to use an application/OS unless that is the
    > conscious over-riding consideration....ie you are broke...


    Good points Thing. Let us also remember that its Free as in Speech, not
    free as in beer.
     
    Gordon, Jul 27, 2007
    #9
  10. Dave Doe

    peterwn Guest

    thingy wrote:

    >
    > Free is a very poor reason to use an application/OS unless that is the
    > conscious over-riding consideration....ie you are broke...
    >


    No, it depends on organisational needs and / or cost benefit studies
    which take into account all costs and benefits in the light of the
    circumstances of that organisation.

    There are pros and cons with the 'free' and the proprietary approaches.
    An organisation critically dependent on a data processing basis with
    lots of customisations needed may well find that unlimited access to the
    source code and the ability to make modifications for in-house use
    without licencing worries is the determining issue.
     
    peterwn, Jul 27, 2007
    #10
  11. In message <2tod.net>, Mark Robinson wrote:

    > Phpnuke has an abysmal security record.


    PHP as a whole has an abysmal security record.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jul 27, 2007
    #11
  12. Dave Doe

    thingy Guest

    peterwn wrote:
    > thingy wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Free is a very poor reason to use an application/OS unless that is the
    >> conscious over-riding consideration....ie you are broke...
    >>

    >
    > No, it depends on organisational needs and / or cost benefit studies
    > which take into account all costs and benefits in the light of the
    > circumstances of that organisation.
    >
    > There are pros and cons with the 'free' and the proprietary approaches.
    > An organisation critically dependent on a data processing basis with
    > lots of customisations needed may well find that unlimited access to the
    > source code and the ability to make modifications for in-house use
    > without licencing worries is the determining issue.


    yep.....I have come across instances where a end user has modified the
    application from a vendor to such an extend (via the vendors
    tools/scripts) that the vendor wont support that code, despite fees of
    over $100,000 per annum...and no option of not paying....

    As long as someone makes a pro-active decision in choosing the most
    important factors to them and their final pick of OS/application
    reflects this fair enough.....but when some dumb ass PHB picks win2k3
    because he could "admin" windows 95...well god help them......

    regards

    Thing
     
    thingy, Jul 31, 2007
    #12
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