Linux Foundation Summit: desktop development is low priority

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by impossible, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. impossible

    impossible Guest

    Seems I'm not the only one who thinks the top Linux developers have failed
    to seriously invest in the desktop. Maybe the dearth of quality apps is no
    accident after all.

    "It's only natural that the people who are paying developers hard cash and
    paying kernel folks' travel and documentation and system administration
    costs want to have a say in what those kernel folk and application
    developers are focusing on. This is the way things are supposed to work. The
    problem is, or may become, that the close relationship between core Linux
    developers and large IT firms may overshadow the wants and needs of those
    who want Linux to become the best desktop platform, not just the best server
    platform.
    "With the current makeup of the Linux Foundation membership, that may never
    happen. The money people are concerned about money. IBM won't make more
    money if Linux does well on the desktop, but they will if it does better on
    big iron. HP and Dell make so much money from selling Windows on desktops
    that they have precious little motivation to work harder to see Linux grow
    in that space. That's fine, too. That is, that's fine unless the wants and
    desires of IBM, HP, Dell -- substitute any other members names for any of
    those three, I use them out of familiarity, not to pick on them -- so
    totally dominate the time and the efforts of free software developers that
    Linux never gets to the next level as a desktop platform. Money talks. And
    when Linux Foundation money says do this, and this means backroom stuff,
    then the desktop will continue to get short shrift.

    http://www.linux.com/feature/132203
    impossible, Apr 16, 2008
    #1
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  2. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "thingy" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> Seems I'm not the only one who thinks the top Linux developers have
    >> failed to seriously invest in the desktop. Maybe the dearth of quality
    >> apps is no accident after all.
    >>
    >>

    > There are two points here, these developers are looking at the desktop
    > itself and not the applications, so if you want to comment on applications
    > quality or otherwise I think this is the wrong place to look.
    >


    If there's no money being invested in desktop develpment, then that's a
    pretty good explanation for why there are no quality apps being developed.

    > The alternative way of thinking about it is, as Linux users, "we" dont
    > want to spend time on the desktop, it is not that important to what we
    > do/want.
    >


    If by "we" you mean IBM and other big players in the Linux Foundation, then
    that would appear to be exactly the point the article was making. But a lot
    of Linux enthusiasts would disagree, don't you think?

    >> "It's only natural that the people who are paying developers hard cash
    >> and paying kernel folks' travel and documentation and system
    >> administration costs want to have a say in what those kernel folk and
    >> application developers are focusing on.

    >
    > yes and no.....if I was a kernel developer I'd be doing what I wanted to
    > do....so if I wanted to specialize in the Adaptec scsi sub-system (say) to
    > enhance its features, speed and support, IBM etc would be on a loosing
    > wicket in asking me to look at their controllers....
    >


    What you would personally be inclined to do is beside the point. The lion's
    share of kernel code today is written by developers who are paid employees
    of IBM, RedHat, and other corporations. Thjey're not looking for you, and
    you have nothing to bargain with them about. Linux development is under
    **their** control, not yours.

    > This is the way things are supposed to work. The
    >> problem is, or may become, that the close relationship between core Linux
    >> developers and large IT firms may overshadow the wants and needs of those
    >> who want Linux to become the best desktop platform, not just the best
    >> server platform.

    >
    > yes and no....if those who want Linux to become the best desktop want it
    > to be so, learn to code for themselves....they are open to do so, they are
    > free to join in.
    >


    Yes, and that volunteer operation has done wonders so far for Linux desktop
    development, right? Don't be riudiculous!

    > If you look at some of the kernel lists I think Linus for one (or used to
    > be, Ive not followed this for a while) is actually quite keen to improve
    > the responsiveness of the desktop, so its not all one way.
    >


    Quite keen, you say? And the applications he and his staff have developed
    are posted where? Again you're being ridiculous. If all it took for desktop
    Linux development to thrive was someone "keen", then it wouldn't even be an
    issue today. Clearly, the top investors like IBM, Sun, etc, have other
    priorities.

    >> "With the current makeup of the Linux Foundation membership, that may
    >> never happen. The money people are concerned about money. IBM won't make
    >> more money if Linux does well on the desktop, but they will if it does
    >> better on big iron. HP and Dell make so much money from selling Windows
    >> on desktops that they have precious little motivation to work harder to
    >> see Linux grow in that space. That's fine, too. That is, that's fine
    >> unless the wants and desires of IBM, HP, Dell -- substitute any other
    >> members names for any of those three, I use them out of familiarity, not
    >> to pick on them -- so totally dominate the time and the efforts of free
    >> software developers that Linux never gets to the next level as a desktop
    >> platform. Money talks. And when Linux Foundation money says do this, and
    >> this means backroom stuff, then the desktop will continue to get short
    >> shrift.
    >>
    >> http://www.linux.com/feature/132203

    >
    > Not sure if this is true or sour grapes...some ppl can get quite
    > "emotional" when they see their desktop is not as good as it could
    > be....but all that happens is they moan about it rather than do some real
    > work ie code it themselves.
    >


    Yeah, right.
    impossible, Apr 16, 2008
    #2
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  3. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "sam" <> wrote in message news:48055d83$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> Seems I'm not the only one who thinks the top Linux developers have
    >> failed to seriously invest in the desktop. Maybe the dearth of quality
    >> apps is no accident after all.
    >>

    > Seems that there were desktop sessions on the agenda that Joe Barr ignored
    > https://www.linux-foundation.org/events/collaboration/program


    Did something meaningful happen there that Joe Barr missed? Or are you just
    fishing? Because I can't find a single encouraging word about Linux desktop
    development from anyone who was at that summit. Can you? Just give me one
    example where some a significant investment has been made that would lead
    you to think that IIBM, for example, cares even a little bit. Heck, they'r
    off peddling their proprietary "Symphony" suite in India and elsewhere.
    What does that tell you?
    impossible, Apr 16, 2008
    #3
  4. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "sam" <> wrote in message news:48057a32$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >> news:48055d83$...
    >>> impossible wrote:
    >>>> Seems I'm not the only one who thinks the top Linux developers have
    >>>> failed to seriously invest in the desktop. Maybe the dearth of quality
    >>>> apps is no accident after all.
    >>>>
    >>> Seems that there were desktop sessions on the agenda that Joe Barr
    >>> ignored
    >>> https://www.linux-foundation.org/events/collaboration/program

    >>
    >> Did something meaningful happen there that Joe Barr missed? Or are you
    >> just fishing? Because I can't find a single encouraging word about Linux
    >> desktop development from anyone who was at that summit. Can you? Just
    >> give me one example where some a significant investment has been made
    >> that would lead you to think that IIBM, for example, cares even a little
    >> bit. Heck, they'r off peddling their proprietary "Symphony" suite in
    >> India and elsewhere. What does that tell you?

    > http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Desktop_April_Summit_2008_Agenda
    >


    That's a list of meetings, not an account of what was discussed

    > http://www.linux-foundation.org/web...linux-desktop-at-the-lf-collaboration-summit/
    >


    That's an article by the Linux Foundation Marketing Director. She says the
    foundation provided plenty of space and time for discussion of Linux desktop
    development. <yawn>

    > http://www.linux-foundation.org/web...hat-the-state-of-the-linux-desktop-is-strong/


    More Linux Foundation spin.

    Got anything from anybody who's not paid to say nice things about Linux
    Foundation events?
    impossible, Apr 16, 2008
    #4
  5. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "sam" <> wrote in message news:4806f386$...
    > impossible wrote:
    >> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >> news:48057a32$...
    >>> impossible wrote:
    >>>> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:48055d83$...
    >>>>> impossible wrote:
    >>>>>> Seems I'm not the only one who thinks the top Linux developers have
    >>>>>> failed to seriously invest in the desktop. Maybe the dearth of
    >>>>>> quality apps is no accident after all.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> Seems that there were desktop sessions on the agenda that Joe Barr
    >>>>> ignored
    >>>>> https://www.linux-foundation.org/events/collaboration/program
    >>>> Did something meaningful happen there that Joe Barr missed? Or are you
    >>>> just fishing? Because I can't find a single encouraging word about
    >>>> Linux desktop development from anyone who was at that summit. Can you?
    >>>> Just give me one example where some a significant investment has been
    >>>> made that would lead you to think that IIBM, for example, cares even a
    >>>> little bit. Heck, they'r off peddling their proprietary "Symphony"
    >>>> suite in India and elsewhere. What does that tell you?
    >>> http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Desktop_April_Summit_2008_Agenda
    >>>

    >>
    >> That's a list of meetings, not an account of what was discussed
    >>
    >>> http://www.linux-foundation.org/web...linux-desktop-at-the-lf-collaboration-summit/
    >>>

    >>
    >> That's an article by the Linux Foundation Marketing Director. She says
    >> the foundation provided plenty of space and time for discussion of Linux
    >> desktop development. <yawn>
    >>
    >>> http://www.linux-foundation.org/web...hat-the-state-of-the-linux-desktop-is-strong/

    >>
    >> More Linux Foundation spin.
    >>
    >> Got anything from anybody who's not paid to say nice things about Linux
    >> Foundation events?
    >>
    >>
    >>

    > It was a meeting of Linux Foundation members why would there be any reason
    > for them to comment any other way ?


    No reason at all. But you do understand thaty the Linux Foundation is run by
    IBM, right?

    > Joe Barr's article said nothing about the desktop sessions that he wasn't
    > at.
    > Its all a bit of a non issue.
    > cya


    If you say so.
    impossible, Apr 17, 2008
    #5
  6. impossible

    impossible Guest

    "sam" <> wrote in message news:4807b013$...
    > whoisthis wrote:
    >> In article <65HNj.70646$TT4.3610@attbi_s22>,
    >> "impossible" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:4806f386$...
    >>>> impossible wrote:
    >>>>> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:48057a32$...
    >>>>>> impossible wrote:
    >>>>>>> "sam" <> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:48055d83$...
    >>>>>>>> impossible wrote:
    >>>>>>>>> Seems I'm not the only one who thinks the top Linux developers
    >>>>>>>>> have failed to seriously invest in the desktop. Maybe the dearth
    >>>>>>>>> of quality apps is no accident after all.
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Seems that there were desktop sessions on the agenda that Joe Barr
    >>>>>>>> ignored
    >>>>>>>> https://www.linux-foundation.org/events/collaboration/program
    >>>>>>> Did something meaningful happen there that Joe Barr missed? Or are
    >>>>>>> you just fishing? Because I can't find a single encouraging word
    >>>>>>> about Linux desktop development from anyone who was at that summit.
    >>>>>>> Can you? Just give me one example where some a significant
    >>>>>>> investment has been made that would lead you to think that IIBM, for
    >>>>>>> example, cares even a little bit. Heck, they'r off peddling their
    >>>>>>> proprietary "Symphony" suite in India and elsewhere. What does that
    >>>>>>> tell you?
    >>>>>> http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Desktop_April_Summit_2008_Agenda
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> That's a list of meetings, not an account of what was discussed
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.linux-foundation.org/weblogs/amanda/2008/04/15/on-embracing-the
    >>>>>> -linux-desktop-at-the-lf-collaboration-summit/
    >>>>>>
    >>>>> That's an article by the Linux Foundation Marketing Director. She says
    >>>>> the foundation provided plenty of space and time for discussion of
    >>>>> Linux desktop development. <yawn>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> http://www.linux-foundation.org/weblogs/desktop-linux/2008/04/11/dam-5-rep
    >>>>>> orts-that-the-state-of-the-linux-desktop-is-strong/
    >>>>> More Linux Foundation spin.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Got anything from anybody who's not paid to say nice things about
    >>>>> Linux Foundation events?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>> It was a meeting of Linux Foundation members why would there be any
    >>>> reason for them to comment any other way ?
    >>> No reason at all. But you do understand thaty the Linux Foundation is
    >>> run by IBM, right?
    >>>
    >>>> Joe Barr's article said nothing about the desktop sessions that he
    >>>> wasn't at.
    >>>> Its all a bit of a non issue.
    >>>> cya
    >>> If you say so.

    >> http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/08/04/17/1334251.shtml
    >> We recently discussed the Linux Foundation's decision to leave desktop
    >> Linux alone but Red Hat is also steering clear of that goal. The reason?
    >> It's too tough. From the company blog: 'It's worth pointing out what's
    >> missing in the list above: we have no plans to create a traditional
    >> desktop product for the consumer market in the foreseeable future. An
    >> explanation: as a public, for-profit company, Red Hat must create
    >> products and technologies with an eye on the bottom line, and with
    >> desktops this is much harder to do than with servers.'"

    >
    > Thats why the Asus eee doesn't have a Red Hat distro on it then.


    Nah, Asus wanted Windows. Linux just doesn't sell.
    impossible, Apr 18, 2008
    #6
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