Linux 2009: "bloated, huge, and scary"

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by impossible, Sep 25, 2009.

  1. impossible

    impossible Guest

    Spinning bloat into "features" isn't winning RedHat any friends in the
    "community":

    http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24832

    "Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds' contention that
    Linux has become bloated....

    "So who's right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won't every operating system
    have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn't it the normal course of
    business to add features?

    "However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with his bloat
    warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people
    actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things:
    It's
    hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it."

    And results are in now from a straw poll of blog readers:

    "Linus Torvalds is right. It's bloated, huge, and scary"
     
    impossible, Sep 25, 2009
    #1
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  2. impossible

    thingy Guest

    Re: Linux 2009: "bloated, huge, and scary"

    On Sep 25, 11:39 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    > Spinning bloat into "features" isn't winning RedHat any friends in the
    > "community":
    >
    > http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24832
    >
    > "Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds' contention that
    > Linux has become bloated....
    >
    > "So who's right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won't every operating system
    > have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn't it the normal course of
    > business to add features?
    >
    > "However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with his bloat
    > warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people
    > actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things:
    > It's
    > hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it."
    >
    > And results are in now from a straw poll of blog readers:
    >
    > "Linus Torvalds is right. It's bloated, huge, and scary"


    Unlike windows you can choose what you install right from a base
    OS...it doesnt install everything including the bloatware the OEM's
    add in order to make yet more money off you...stupid things from HP
    that keeps trying to sell you extra hardware warrantee you dont
    want...It doesnt even allow you to say no, its either not right now,
    or buy.....

    If they had any morals the 3rd choice would be "no never"...and thats
    the difference....

    but something I expect you wouldnt understand....

    regards

    thing
     
    thingy, Sep 26, 2009
    #2
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  3. impossible

    Sailor Sam Guest

    Re: Linux 2009: "bloated, huge, and scary"

    victor wrote:
    > thingy wrote:
    >> On Sep 25, 11:39 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    >>> Spinning bloat into "features" isn't winning RedHat any friends in the
    >>> "community":
    >>>
    >>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24832
    >>>
    >>> "Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds' contention
    >>> that
    >>> Linux has become bloated....
    >>>
    >>> "So who's right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won't every operating
    >>> system
    >>> have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn't it the normal
    >>> course of
    >>> business to add features?
    >>>
    >>> "However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with
    >>> his bloat
    >>> warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people
    >>> actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things:
    >>> It's
    >>> hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it."
    >>>
    >>> And results are in now from a straw poll of blog readers:
    >>>
    >>> "Linus Torvalds is right. It's bloated, huge, and scary"

    >>
    >> Unlike windows you can choose what you install right from a base
    >> OS...it doesnt install everything including the bloatware the OEM's
    >> add in order to make yet more money off you...stupid things from HP
    >> that keeps trying to sell you extra hardware warrantee you dont
    >> want...It doesnt even allow you to say no, its either not right now,
    >> or buy.....
    >>
    >> If they had any morals the 3rd choice would be "no never"...and thats
    >> the difference....
    >>
    >> but something I expect you wouldnt understand....
    >>
    >> regards
    >>
    >> thing
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > LOL "A straw poll of blog readers"
    >
    > What a DICK !!


    I think it's healthy to be able to discuss what does, and does not, go
    into the kernel of an OS. Also, being OSS, there is the oppourtunity to
    fork the kernel to suit your needs, as a user.

    With a proprietary kernel, the big players have their say about what
    they want, the sales reps say what they think will sell, and the
    discussion ends there.
     
    Sailor Sam, Sep 26, 2009
    #3
  4. impossible

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    Re: Linux 2009: "bloated, huge, and scary"

    "Sailor Sam" <> wrote in message
    news:h9jr1o$ef4$-september.org...
    > I think it's healthy to be able to discuss what does, and does not, go
    > into the kernel of an OS. Also, being OSS, there is the oppourtunity to
    > fork the kernel to suit your needs, as a user.


    Which is why OSS is so wonderful of course :) Though you could equally say
    the same thing about any type of software, provided that you are both the
    developer *and* the user, there's just a lot more work involved :p

    > With a proprietary kernel, the big players have their say about what they
    > want, the sales reps say what they think will sell, and the discussion
    > ends there.


    That's oversimplistic. The needs of the targeted end users (who are after
    all collectively the biggest player of them all) and the engineers' past
    experience, level of ability, and personal and professional pride play a
    huge role as well.
     
    Nik Coughlin, Sep 26, 2009
    #4
  5. impossible

    Sailor Sam Guest

    Re: Linux 2009: "bloated, huge, and scary"

    Nik Coughlin wrote:
    > "Sailor Sam" <> wrote in message
    > news:h9jr1o$ef4$-september.org...
    >> I think it's healthy to be able to discuss what does, and does not, go
    >> into the kernel of an OS. Also, being OSS, there is the oppourtunity
    >> to fork the kernel to suit your needs, as a user.

    >
    > Which is why OSS is so wonderful of course :) Though you could equally
    > say the same thing about any type of software, provided that you are
    > both the developer *and* the user, there's just a lot more work involved :p
    >


    I was thinking as I wrote the post that, almost everything here applies
    to both, the bigger you are, the deeper your pockets, the more influence
    you can exert on what goes in, and what doesn't.

    However, the difference is, that, even a mildly advanced user, with no
    coding experience, whatsoever, can recompile the OSS kernel to include,
    or not include as the case may be, anything and everything they feel
    appropriate (I know this from first hand experience).

    Note, this can (and often does) end in tears, but with proper
    management, the user is going to lose, at most, one working day of
    effort, but no data loss (first hand experience again :(.

    I cannot, regardless of my skillset, recompile a proprietary kernel.

    And, I would humbly submit, my skillset is now considered above average,
    to advanced.

    >> With a proprietary kernel, the big players have their say about what
    >> they want, the sales reps say what they think will sell, and the
    >> discussion ends there.

    >
    > That's oversimplistic. The needs of the targeted end users (who are
    > after all collectively the biggest player of them all) and the
    > engineers' past experience, level of ability, and personal and
    > professional pride play a huge role as well.
     
    Sailor Sam, Sep 26, 2009
    #5
  6. impossible

    impossible Guest

    Re: Linux 2009: "bloated, huge, and scary"

    "victor" <> wrote in message
    news:h9jqd5$9al$-september.org...
    > thingy wrote:
    >> On Sep 25, 11:39 pm, "impossible" <> wrote:
    >>> Spinning bloat into "features" isn't winning RedHat any friends in the
    >>> "community":
    >>>
    >>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=24832
    >>>
    >>> "Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst disagreed with Linus Torvalds' contention
    >>> that
    >>> Linux has become bloated....
    >>>
    >>> "So who's right here? Whitehurst has a point. Won't every operating
    >>> system
    >>> have virtualization capabilities layered in? Isn't it the normal course
    >>> of
    >>> business to add features?
    >>>
    >>> "However, Torvalds may be onto something too. He may be early with his
    >>> bloat
    >>> warning, but at some point Linux will have more features than people
    >>> actually want. Bloated operating systems are like a lot of other things:
    >>> It's
    >>> hard to find the tipping point, but you know bloat when you see it."
    >>>
    >>> And results are in now from a straw poll of blog readers:
    >>>
    >>> "Linus Torvalds is right. It's bloated, huge, and scary"

    >>
    >> Unlike windows you can choose what you install right from a base
    >> OS...it doesnt install everything including the bloatware the OEM's
    >> add in order to make yet more money off you...stupid things from HP
    >> that keeps trying to sell you extra hardware warrantee you dont
    >> want...It doesnt even allow you to say no, its either not right now,
    >> or buy.....
    >>
    >> If they had any morals the 3rd choice would be "no never"...and thats
    >> the difference....
    >>
    >> but something I expect you wouldnt understand....
    >>
    >> regards
    >>
    >> thing
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    > LOL "A straw poll of blog readers"
    >
    > What a DICK !!


    Yes, DEixck, of course. The votes of six nz.comp fanboys mean so-o-o-o- much
    more.
     
    impossible, Sep 26, 2009
    #6
  7. impossible

    Peter Guest

    Re: Linux 2009: "bloated, huge, and scary"

    Sailor Sam wrote:
    > However, the difference is, that, even a mildly advanced user, with no
    > coding experience, whatsoever, can recompile the OSS kernel to include,
    > or not include as the case may be, anything and everything they feel
    > appropriate (I know this from first hand experience).


    Changes to a proprietary kernel will only happen with the agreement and
    approval of that software company.
    But with an open source kernel, you (as a person or corporation) might have
    wildly different ideas of what changes are required, or what bug is causing
    you problems. Doesn't matter, you can alter the kernel as you wish.

    I was told a story by a guy in a web server company, where they were sure
    that bugs / features in the proprietary kernel they were using was causing
    serious problems (memory leaks and stuff). They couldn't convince the
    company who sold them the OS, so couldn't get it fixed. Very expensive and
    very frustrating. Changing to an OSS system was a big job, but at the end,
    gave them dramatically increased freedom and flexibility, and enabled them
    control over their own business.


    Peter
     
    Peter, Sep 26, 2009
    #7
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