Linus Torvalds: 'Linux is bloated'

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Woger, Sep 22, 2009.

  1. Woger

    Woger Guest

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  2. Woger

    peterwn Guest

    On Sep 22, 5:00 pm, Woger <> wrote:
    > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html


    The article needs to be read in context. A comparison with Windows is
    not really valid as there is a 'Siamese twin' relationship between the
    kernel and key Microsoft applications such as Internet Explorer and MS
    Office. In Linux and its applications there is a 'bright line' between
    the two - applications cannot interfere with the kernel or willy nilly
    assume 'root' privileges. .
     
    peterwn, Sep 22, 2009
    #2
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  3. Woger

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    > "peterwn" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > On Sep 22, 5:00 pm, Woger <> wrote:
    > > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html

    >
    > The article needs to be read in context. A comparison with Windows is
    > not really valid as there is a 'Siamese twin' relationship between the
    > kernel and key Microsoft applications such as Internet Explorer and MS
    > Office. In Linux and its applications there is a 'bright line' between
    > the two - applications cannot interfere with the kernel or willy nilly
    > assume 'root' privileges. .


    Not true. The kernel in NT based Windows is very disconnected, even more so
    than Linux. Good comment here:
    http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/shipping-seven-is-a-fraud/#comment-160264
     
    Nik Coughlin, Sep 22, 2009
    #3
  4. Woger

    Enkidu Guest

    Nik Coughlin wrote:
    >> "peterwn" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> On Sep 22, 5:00 pm, Woger <> wrote:
    >> > http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html

    >>
    >> The article needs to be read in context. A comparison with Windows is
    >> not really valid as there is a 'Siamese twin' relationship between the
    >> kernel and key Microsoft applications such as Internet Explorer and MS
    >> Office. In Linux and its applications there is a 'bright line' between
    >> the two - applications cannot interfere with the kernel or willy nilly
    >> assume 'root' privileges. .

    >
    > Not true. The kernel in NT based Windows is very disconnected, even more
    > so than Linux. Good comment here:
    > http://neosmart.net/blog/2008/shipping-seven-is-a-fraud/#comment-160264
    >

    Hehehehehehe! That 'comment' is a load of gibberish.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Sep 22, 2009
    #4
  5. Woger

    Carnations Guest

    On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:35:15 +1200, Nik Coughlin wrote:

    > Not true. The kernel in NT based Windows is very disconnected, even more
    > so than Linux.


    So, why are there so very many _security_ exploits and flaws in MS Windows?


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Carnations, Sep 22, 2009
    #5
  6. Woger

    Nik Coughlin Guest

    "Carnations" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 18:35:15 +1200, Nik Coughlin wrote:
    >
    >> Not true. The kernel in NT based Windows is very disconnected, even more
    >> so than Linux.

    >
    > So, why are there so very many _security_ exploits and flaws in MS
    > Windows?


    The kernel has very good security, faults lie in the subsystems sitting on
    top of the kernel:

    "Despite statements to the contrary, NT is secure by design. It was the
    first mainstream operating system with a proper implementation of a very
    flexible security model based on access control lists.

    Recent NT based operating system from Redmond, especially XP, got bad
    reputation for its weak default security-settings; mainly, to simplify the
    transition from Win9x for both users and legacy applications."

    http://www.reactos.org/en/about.html
     
    Nik Coughlin, Sep 23, 2009
    #6
  7. Woger

    Biggless Guest

    On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 23:21:15 -0700, peterwn wrote:

    > On Sep 22, 5:00 pm, Woger <> wrote:
    >> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html

    >
    > The article needs to be read in context. A comparison with Windows is
    > not really valid as there is a 'Siamese twin' relationship between the
    > kernel and key Microsoft applications such as Internet Explorer and MS
    > Office. In Linux and its applications there is a 'bright line' between
    > the two - applications cannot interfere with the kernel or willy nilly
    > assume 'root' privileges. .


    There is no comparison with windows kernel done in that article ya
    plonker .. find me one mention of the word windows ..... that 12 % drop
    would be for the server I would hate to see the same stats for the
    desktop.

    The article also shoots LDO's stupid claims of linux kernel being small
    and modular out the window...

    Biggles ..
     
    Biggless, Sep 23, 2009
    #7
  8. Woger

    Carnations Guest

    On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 11:53:56 +1200, Nik Coughlin wrote:

    >> So, why are there so very many _security_ exploits and flaws in MS
    >> Windows?

    >
    > The kernel has very good security, faults lie in the subsystems sitting
    > on top of the kernel:
    >
    > "Despite statements to the contrary, NT is secure by design. It was the
    > first mainstream operating system with a proper implementation of a very
    > flexible security model based on access control lists.


    "Secure by design" - that is why the kernel *allows* so many utterly fundamental security exploits that
    simply should not be permitted - by design, legacy applications or otherwise.

    Actual kernel subsystems that are in kernel-space are no different from the kernel and should be
    treated as if they are a fundamental part of the kernel. otherwise they should be in userland with all the
    fundamental lockdowns and restrictions that apply to userland code.

    If the code is in kernel space, and has a security hole that can be exploited, then it is the kernel that
    has the security flaw - by design.


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Carnations, Sep 23, 2009
    #8
  9. Woger

    thingy Guest

    thingy, Sep 24, 2009
    #9
  10. Woger

    Biggless Guest

    On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:01:50 -0700, thingy wrote:

    > On Sep 22, 5:00 pm, Woger <> wrote:
    >> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10358024-16.html

    >
    > "Linux is bloated" was a big sentence for you wasnt it? Well
    > done...para's are next!
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing


    Did the para shatter your delusions...


    Biggless....
     
    Biggless, Oct 1, 2009
    #10
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