Licence to compute?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. Do we need computer competence tests? Some thoughts from Guy Kewney
    <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/21/computer_competence_tests/>.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 22, 2008
    #1
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  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Ross Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:39:33 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    <_zealand> wrote:

    >Do we need computer competence tests? Some thoughts from Guy Kewney
    ><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/21/computer_competence_tests/>.


    Only for people that want to use internet banking.

    They should get a random question each time they log on?
    e.g. What firewall are you running right now?
    or, What is your OS and what version?
    The correct answer let's them continue.
     
    Ross, Jan 22, 2008
    #2
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  3. On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:52:13 +1300, Ross wrote:

    > They should get a random question each time they log on? e.g. What
    > firewall are you running right now? or, What is your OS and what
    > version? The correct answer let's them continue.


    That would cause most of them to not be able to do internet banking, as
    most of them wouldn't know what a firewall is, or how to configure it, or
    even whether or not it is running.

    Most M$ Windows users would most likely be able to tell you what
    iteration of M$ Windows they're using - XP.


    --
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

    All malware is currently a single platform problem and is almost all the
    fault of poor design of two applications - Internet Explorer and Outlook
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Jan 22, 2008
    #3
  4. Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC) wrote:
    > On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:52:13 +1300, Ross wrote:
    >
    >> They should get a random question each time they log on? e.g. What
    >> firewall are you running right now? or, What is your OS and what
    >> version? The correct answer let's them continue.

    >
    > That would cause most of them to not be able to do internet banking, as
    > most of them wouldn't know what a firewall is, or how to configure it, or
    > even whether or not it is running.
    >
    > Most M$ Windows users would most likely be able to tell you what
    > iteration of M$ Windows they're using - XP.
    >
    >

    I think the problem is that most users JUST DO NO KNOW it does not
    matter what they are running (I use WinXP and Linux) my wife liked gnome
    I like KDE (i have not decided which is best all round) I think a sand
    box pc idear or a sandbox internet sweet of programs (running on a
    server somwhere) would make good sence for the masses

    --
    http://cooze.co.nz home of the RecyclerMan aka Robert Cooze

    / __/ / / / / /__ / / ___/ / __/ / / / |/ / /__ /
    / / / /_/ / / /_/ / _-' / __/ / / / /_/ / / /| / _-'
    ___\ ____/ ____/ /___/ /____/ /_/ ___\ ____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /___/
     
    RecyclerMan (Robert Cooze), Jan 22, 2008
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    "Ross" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:39:33 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    > <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >>Do we need computer competence tests? Some thoughts from Guy Kewney
    >><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/21/computer_competence_tests/>.

    >
    > Only for people that want to use internet banking.
    >


    In the first instance, that would be the banks themselves. Competency tests
    for the people hired to design internet banking systems would might improve
    things, I suppose. But the technical competency of customers ought to be
    immaterial.

    > They should get a random question each time they log on?
    > e.g. What firewall are you running right now?
    > or, What is your OS and what version?
    > The correct answer let's them continue.


    Those are silly questions. If a bank hasn't figured out a way to make their
    online transactiuons secure, then they shouldn't open a portal. Full stop.
    To deflect liability onto the customer is ridiculous. Better to simply add
    another layer of identity verification, the way credit bureaus and credit
    card companies sometimes do. No system is ever going to be 100% secure 100%
    of the time, but then that's why banks have insurance.
     
    impossible, Jan 22, 2008
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    thingy Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > Do we need computer competence tests? Some thoughts from Guy Kewney
    > <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/21/computer_competence_tests/>.


    So the next thing is licence to have kids, drink booze....etc etc.

    regards

    thing
     
    thingy, Jan 22, 2008
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 18:28:49 GMT, "impossible" <> wrote:

    >"Ross" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:39:33 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro
    >> <_zealand> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Do we need computer competence tests? Some thoughts from Guy Kewney
    >>><http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/21/computer_competence_tests/>.

    >>
    >> Only for people that want to use internet banking.
    >>

    >
    >In the first instance, that would be the banks themselves. Competency tests
    >for the people hired to design internet banking systems would might improve
    >things, I suppose. But the technical competency of customers ought to be
    >immaterial.
    >
    >> They should get a random question each time they log on?
    >> e.g. What firewall are you running right now?
    >> or, What is your OS and what version?
    >> The correct answer let's them continue.

    >
    >Those are silly questions. If a bank hasn't figured out a way to make their
    >online transactiuons secure, then they shouldn't open a portal. Full stop.
    >To deflect liability onto the customer is ridiculous. Better to simply add
    >another layer of identity verification, the way credit bureaus and credit
    >card companies sometimes do. No system is ever going to be 100% secure 100%
    >of the time, but then that's why banks have insurance.
    >




    The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less a 100% Secure system..
     
    , Jan 22, 2008
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Richard Guest

    wrote:
    >
    > The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less a 100% Secure system..


    No system is secure, look at that recent trojen that does a decent
    effort to screw over people with banking, waiting till they do a 2
    factor authorised transaction and then uses the code for their own one
    rather then the one the person requested. Very nice example of how it
    will be impossible to ever have secure internet banking on an insecure
    computer.
     
    Richard, Jan 22, 2008
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Richard Guest

    Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    > In article <>, thingy <> wrote:
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>> Do we need computer competence tests? Some thoughts from Guy Kewney
    >>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/21/computer_competence_tests/>.

    >> So the next thing is licence to have kids, drink booze....etc etc.

    >
    > Well ... I've long wondered why we need a licence to own a dog, but not a
    > child. :)


    And why a vicious dog that attacks people gets put down, but the same in
    a child gets sympathy for the criminal.
     
    Richard, Jan 22, 2008
    #9
  10. In article <>, thingy <> wrote:
    >Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> Do we need computer competence tests? Some thoughts from Guy Kewney
    >> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/21/computer_competence_tests/>.

    >
    >So the next thing is licence to have kids, drink booze....etc etc.


    Well ... I've long wondered why we need a licence to own a dog, but not a
    child. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Jan 23, 2008
    #10
  11. In article <>,
    did write:

    > The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less a
    > 100% Secure system..


    I would advise you to lay off making pronouncements about security, Grandad.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 23, 2008
    #11
  12. In article <479682e9$>, Richard <> wrote:
    >Bruce Sinclair wrote:
    >> In article <>, thingy <>

    > wrote:
    >>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>>> Do we need computer competence tests? Some thoughts from Guy Kewney
    >>>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/01/21/computer_competence_tests/>.
    >>> So the next thing is licence to have kids, drink booze....etc etc.

    >>
    >> Well ... I've long wondered why we need a licence to own a dog, but not a
    >> child. :)

    >
    >And why a vicious dog that attacks people gets put down, but the same in
    >a child gets sympathy for the criminal.


    ... let us not get into the law/common sense/justice debate. That way lies
    madness :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Jan 23, 2008
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    impossible Guest

    "Richard" <> wrote in message
    news:479682be$...
    > wrote:
    >>
    >> The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less
    >> a 100% Secure system..

    >
    > No system is secure, look at that recent trojen that does a decent effort
    > to screw over people with banking, waiting till they do a 2 factor
    > authorised transaction and then uses the code for their own one rather
    > then the one the person requested.


    Got an example of where that trojan actually did spome damage? No, I didn't
    think so. Just another security company trying to drum up business.

    > Very nice example of how it will be impossible to ever have secure
    > internet banking on an insecure computer.


    Billions of transactions each day suggest you're wrong.
     
    impossible, Jan 23, 2008
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Guest

    On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:38:51 +1300, Richard <> wrote:

    > wrote:
    >>
    >> The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less a 100% Secure system..

    >
    >No system is secure, look at that recent trojen that does a decent
    >effort to screw over people with banking, waiting till they do a 2
    >factor authorised transaction and then uses the code for their own one
    >rather then the one the person requested. Very nice example of how it
    >will be impossible to ever have secure internet banking on an insecure
    >computer.




    Did you read what I posted, ? its a 3 system check so its 100% Secure in my mind.

    One uses a Cell phone and the other a personal Index card..
     
    , Jan 23, 2008
    #14
  15. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Guest

    On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:53:31 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:

    >In article <>,
    > did write:
    >
    >> The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less a
    >> 100% Secure system..

    >
    >I would advise you to lay off making pronouncements about security, Grandad.




    But then you would not know as usual..
     
    , Jan 23, 2008
    #15
  16. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Squiggle Guest

    wrote:
    > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 13:53:31 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <_zealand> wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>,
    >> did write:
    >>
    >>> The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less a
    >>> 100% Secure system..

    >> I would advise you to lay off making pronouncements about security, Grandad.

    >
    >
    >
    > But then you would not know as usual..
    >
    >

    Actually, i'd give Lawrence far more credit in this area than you Roger.

    This system is 100% secure....
    The Titanic is unsinkable...
    No one will ever escape from Alcatraz...

    Spot the commmon factor in all of these statements?

    Arrogance being overcome by human stupidity or human determination.
     
    Squiggle, Jan 23, 2008
    #16
  17. In article <>, wrote:
    >On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:38:51 +1300, Richard <> wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>>
    >>> The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less a

    > 100% Secure system..
    >>
    >>No system is secure, look at that recent trojen that does a decent
    >>effort to screw over people with banking, waiting till they do a 2
    >>factor authorised transaction and then uses the code for their own one
    >>rather then the one the person requested. Very nice example of how it
    >>will be impossible to ever have secure internet banking on an insecure
    >>computer.


    >Did you read what I posted, ? its a 3 system check so its 100% Secure in my
    > mind.
    >One uses a Cell phone and the other a personal Index card..


    If you think anything is 100% secure, you are wrong. :)
    Doesn't matter what system you use, someone will find a way around it. Worst
    case, target the wet ware. Never fails. :)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Jan 23, 2008
    #17
  18. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Richard Guest

    wrote:
    > On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:38:51 +1300, Richard <> wrote:
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>> The BNZ id card & the National bank cell phone system is more or less a 100% Secure system..

    >> No system is secure, look at that recent trojen that does a decent
    >> effort to screw over people with banking, waiting till they do a 2
    >> factor authorised transaction and then uses the code for their own one
    >> rather then the one the person requested. Very nice example of how it
    >> will be impossible to ever have secure internet banking on an insecure
    >> computer.

    >
    >
    >
    > Did you read what I posted, ? its a 3 system check so its 100% Secure in my mind.
    >
    > One uses a Cell phone and the other a personal Index card..


    So you have a username/password combo, and a cellphone on one case, and
    a username/password and index card in the other case, both of those are
    2 factor systems, where is the third?
     
    Richard, Jan 23, 2008
    #18
  19. In article <>, Richard did write:

    > wrote:
    >
    >> Did you read what I posted, ? its a 3 system check so its 100% Secure
    >> in my mind.
    >>
    >> One uses a Cell phone and the other a personal Index card..

    >
    > So you have a username/password combo, and a cellphone on one case, and
    > a username/password and index card in the other case, both of those are
    > 2 factor systems, where is the third?


    Glad someone understands the difference between actual security,
    and "security" as a promotional term bandied about by marketing droids.

    I think Woger has fallen into the trap of swallowing the latter hook, line
    and sinker.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 23, 2008
    #19
  20. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Richard Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    >>> One uses a Cell phone and the other a personal Index card..

    >> So you have a username/password combo, and a cellphone on one case, and
    >> a username/password and index card in the other case, both of those are
    >> 2 factor systems, where is the third?

    >
    > Glad someone understands the difference between actual security,
    > and "security" as a promotional term bandied about by marketing droids.
    >
    > I think Woger has fallen into the trap of swallowing the latter hook, line
    > and sinker.


    Really, I dont care about it because the bank says they will cover the
    cost if its used inappropriatly. Thats the same reason I am quite happy
    to use a creditcard over the phone with a call center that may be
    writing the numbers down to mis-use later - its not my problem if
    something goes wrong.

    I think woger is having issues counting today, something to do with his
    90% tax rate and problems calculating affordability of consumer electronics.
     
    Richard, Jan 23, 2008
    #20
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