Let's nitpick dpreview's SD-10 "specs" for a moment

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by George Preddy, Oct 29, 2003.

  1. Sigma SD-10
    --------------
    TypeDigital SLR (lens interchangeable)
    Body materialHigh-impact plastic / rubber (metal substructure)
    Price (kit inc. two lenses)US - $ 1999 [check /order]
    UK - £ 1249 [check /order]
    * Includes the SD10 body, 18 - 50 mm DC & 55 - 200 mm DC lenses
    Price (body only)UK - £ 1099 [check /order]
    Sensor. Foveon X3 Pro 10M CMOS Image Sensor
    . 20.7 x 13.8 mm
    Photodetectors10.3 million (2268 x 1512 x 3)

    Ok so far...

    Total pixel locations2304 x 1536

    Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above? Does a 3 chip camera only have
    1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?

    Effective pixel locations2268 x 1512

    Same comment. And if one is talking purely output/interpolated pixels, and
    not discrete sensors, why not note 13.72MP worth of pixel locations, as is
    noted below?

    Pixel pitch9.12 µm x 9.12 µm
    Analog to digital converter12-bits per photo detector (36 bits per pixel
    location)
    Optical filterNo
    MicrolensesYes
    Sensitivity. ISO 100
    . ISO 200
    . ISO 400
    . ISO 800
    . ISO 1600 (Extended mode)
    Image sizes. 2268 x 1512 (HI)
    . 1512 x 1008 (MED)
    . 1134 x 756 (LOW)
    * Can output a double-size 4536 x 3024 from Photo Pro software

    Interesting. Never does dpreview note that all Bayer output is already
    "double-size" (interpolated, 4:1).

    Image formatsFoveon X3 lossless compressed RAW (.X3F)
    Color space. Captures RAW data
    . Photo Pro software outputs in sRGB, Apple RGB, Adobe RGB,ColorMatch RGB
    Lens mountSigma SA mount
    Field of view crop1.7x (also known as focal length multiplier)
    AutofocusTTL phase detection
    AF IlluminatorNone
    Focus areaOne
    Lens servo. Single Servo AF (S)
    . Continuous Servo AF (C) with motion prediction function
    Focus lockHalf-press of shutter release
    Metering. 8-segment Evaluative
    . Center
    . Center-Weighted Average
    Metering range1 - 20 EV
    Exposure mode. (P) Program AE
    . (A) Aperture-Priority Auto
    . (S) Shutter-Priority Auto
    . (M) Manual
    Exposure compensation+/-3 EV in 0.3 EV steps
    AE LockDedicated AEL button
    AE Bracketing. Three images
    . Compensation steps: 0.3 - 3.0 EV
    Shutter type. Vertical travel metal focal plane shutter
    . Electronically controlled through entire speed range
    Shutter speed. ISO 100,200: 15 - 1/6000 sec
    . ISO 400,800: 4 - 1/6000 sec
    . Bulb (up to limits as above)
    . Extended mode up to 30 sec
    Depth-of-field previewButton, stops-down lens aperture
    X-Sync shutter speedUp to 1/180 sec

    But with up to 1/6000 sec available using the EF500 DG Super.

    Shooting modes. Single frame
    . Continuous shooting
    . Self-timer 10 sec
    . Self-timer 2 sec
    Continuous mode. 2268 x 1512: 1.9 fps for 6 frames
    . 1512 x 1008: 2.4 fps for 14 frames
    . 1134 x 756: 2.5 fps for 30 frames

    Right. Non-interpolated. And the SD-9/10's 1512 x 1008 non-interpolated
    output contains the exact same amount of color data as all 6MP interpolated
    ("double size") Bayer images. No note of this?

    White balance. Auto
    . Sunlight (~5400 K)
    . Shade (~8000 K)
    . Overcast (~6000 K)
    . Incandescent (~3150 K)
    . Fluorescent (~4100 K)
    . Flash (~5850 K)
    . Custom
    * As the SD10 shoots RAW white balance can be modified later in
    the Photo Pro software
    White balance bracketing: No

    Does that really matter, given the asterisk above it?

    Sync contactHot-shoe, X-contact only (also has dedicated Sigma link
    contact)
    Flash control. STTL automatic flash exposure
    . Only: Sigma EF-500 DG Super SA, EF-500 DG ST SA flash units
    Built-in flashNone
    ViewfinderPentaprism SLR viewfinder
    Viewfinder eyepoint18 mm
    Viewfinder frame coverage98% horizontal, 97% vertical
    Viewfinder magnification0.77 x
    Viewfinder informationFlash indicator, Focus indicator, Shutter speed,
    AEL indicator, Aperture, Auto Bracket
    indicator,
    Exposure compensation
    Viewfinder diopter adjustment-3 dpt to +1 dpt
    Focusing screenSports finder (area outside sensor coverage is shown
    darker)
    Focusing screen information. Auto Focus frame
    . Center Area Metering
    StorageCompactFlash Type I/II
    Microdrive compatibleYes
    LCD monitor. 1.8"
    . 130,000 pixel TFT
    . 100% frame coverage
    Playback functions. Single image full screen
    . Magnified (full screen or histogram)
    . Histogram (thumbnail, histogram, exposure info)
    . Thumbnail (9 images)
    . Slide Show
    Record preview. Off
    . 2, 5 or 10 secs
    . Hold
    . Single image / Info (inc. Histogram)
    Menu languages. English
    . Japanese
    . German
    . French
    Video outputNTSC or PAL selectable
    Connectivity. Firewire (IEEE 1394)
    . USB 1.1
    Power. 4 x AA batteries (NiMH recommended)
    or . 2 x Lithium CR-V3 (non-rechargeable)
    Dimensions152 x 120 x 79 mm (6.0 x 4.7 x 3.1 in)
    Weight (no battery)785 g (1.7 lb)
    Included SoftwareSigma Photo Pro 2.0 (Workflow / RAW conversion)
    Photo Pro image adjustments. White Balance (stored in X3F file)
    . Exposure (EV compensation +/- 2.0 in 0.1 EV steps)
    . Contrast (+/-2.0 in 0.1 steps)
    . Shadow (+/-2.0 in 0.1 steps)
    . Highlight (+/-2.0 in 0.1 steps)
    . Saturation (+/-2.0 in 0.1 steps)
    . Sharpness (+/-2.0 in 0.1 steps)
    . X3 Fill Light (+/-2.0 in 0.1 steps)
    . Color Balance (CMY adjustment wheel)
    Photo Pro output. Images: All, Marked, Selected
    . Format: TIFF (8 or 16-bit), JPEG (EXIF / JFIF - 12 levels)
    . Size: Same size, Double size, Half size
    . Color space: sRGB, Apple RGB, Adobe RGB, ColorMatch RGB
    . Adjustment: Default, Auto, Custom (previously saved settings)
    Photo Pro misc. Can transfer images directly from camera
    . Image rotation
    . Loupe magnification
    . Monitor gamma verification
    . Mark / Lock
    . Image info
    . Live adjustment
    . Over / Under exposure warning indication
    . Image adjustments can be stored in X3F file

    Not too bad overall, but there really isn't an excuse for the
    errors/ommisions.
     
    George Preddy, Oct 29, 2003
    #1
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  2. George Preddy

    MarkH Guest

    "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    news:bnngv4$kev$:

    > Sigma SD-10
    > Sensor. Foveon X3 Pro 10M CMOS Image Sensor
    > . 20.7 x 13.8 mm
    > Photodetectors10.3 million (2268 x 1512 x 3)
    >
    > Ok so far...
    >
    > Total pixel locations2304 x 1536
    >
    > Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above? Does a 3 chip camera
    > only have 1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?


    Maybe Phil is not stupid and actually knows what he is talking about.

    > Effective pixel locations2268 x 1512
    >
    > Same comment. And if one is talking purely output/interpolated
    > pixels, and not discrete sensors, why not note 13.72MP worth of pixel
    > locations, as is noted below?


    How can there be 13.72MP worth of pixel locations? There are only 10.3M
    sensors and since there are 3 sensors per location there are a total of
    3.4M locations.

    > Image sizes. 2268 x 1512 (HI)
    > . 1512 x 1008 (MED)
    > . 1134 x 756 (LOW)
    > * Can output a double-size 4536 x 3024 from Photo Pro software
    >
    > Interesting. Never does dpreview note that all Bayer output is
    > already "double-size" (interpolated, 4:1).


    Because that is NOT true, also this is a review of the SD-10 which has
    nothing to do with Bayer. With Bayer one colour value is know for each
    location, 2 colour are guessed by interpolation – this means that 1/3
    data is real and 2/3 is guessed. The 4:1 interpolation is a fiction that
    you have made up.

    > X-Sync shutter speedUp to 1/180 sec
    >
    > But with up to 1/6000 sec available using the EF500 DG Super.


    Was Phil reviewing the EF500 DG Super as part of this review?

    > Not too bad overall, but there really isn't an excuse for the
    > errors/ommisions.


    The only errors are yours. You don’t understand how Bayer works and you
    don’t understand how Foveon works.

    You seem determined to stake your claim to the title of group dunce.




    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Oct 29, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    news:bnnuli$vg0$...
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    > news:bnngv4$kev$:
    >
    > > Sigma SD-10
    > > Sensor. Foveon X3 Pro 10M CMOS Image Sensor
    > > . 20.7 x 13.8 mm
    > > Photodetectors10.3 million (2268 x 1512 x 3)
    > >
    > > Ok so far...
    > >
    > > Total pixel locations2304 x 1536
    > >
    > > Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above? Does a 3 chip camera
    > > only have 1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?

    >
    > Maybe Phil is not stupid and actually knows what he is talking about.


    Is that why he tests the optical resolution of color interpolating camera
    using B&W lens-test charts?


    > > Effective pixel locations2268 x 1512
    > >
    > > Same comment. And if one is talking purely output/interpolated
    > > pixels, and not discrete sensors, why not note 13.72MP worth of pixel
    > > locations, as is noted below?

    >
    > How can there be 13.72MP worth of pixel locations? There are only 10.3M
    > sensors and since there are 3 sensors per location there are a total of
    > 3.4M locations.


    3D, not 2D.

    > > Image sizes. 2268 x 1512 (HI)
    > > . 1512 x 1008 (MED)
    > > . 1134 x 756 (LOW)
    > > * Can output a double-size 4536 x 3024 from Photo Pro software
    > >
    > > Interesting. Never does dpreview note that all Bayer output is
    > > already "double-size" (interpolated, 4:1).

    >
    > Because that is NOT true,


    It is absolutely true Bayer's are all interpolated. Maybe Phil doesn't know
    that either.

    > also this is a review of the SD-10 which has
    > nothing to do with Bayer. With Bayer one colour value is know for each
    > location, 2 colour are guessed by interpolation - this means that 1/3
    > data is real and 2/3 is guessed. The 4:1 interpolation is a fiction that
    > you have made up.
    >
    > > X-Sync shutter speedUp to 1/180 sec
    > >
    > > But with up to 1/6000 sec available using the EF500 DG Super.

    >
    > Was Phil reviewing the EF500 DG Super as part of this review?


    How can you use it without a flash?

    > > Not too bad overall, but there really isn't an excuse for the
    > > errors/ommisions.

    >
    > The only errors are yours. You don't understand how Bayer works and you
    > don't understand how Foveon works.
    >
    > You seem determined to stake your claim to the title of group dunce.


    You don't even realize Bayers interpolate.
     
    George Preddy, Oct 29, 2003
    #3
  4. George Preddy

    MarkH Guest

    "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    news:bnnu27$gv$:

    >
    > "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    > news:bnnuli$vg0$...
    >> "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    >> news:bnngv4$kev$:
    >>
    >> > Sigma SD-10
    >> > Sensor. Foveon X3 Pro 10M CMOS Image Sensor
    >> > . 20.7 x 13.8 mm
    >> > Photodetectors10.3 million (2268 x 1512 x 3)
    >> >
    >> > Ok so far...
    >> >
    >> > Total pixel locations2304 x 1536
    >> >
    >> > Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above? Does a 3 chip camera
    >> > only have 1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?

    >>
    >> Maybe Phil is not stupid and actually knows what he is talking about.

    >
    > Is that why he tests the optical resolution of color interpolating
    > camera using B&W lens-test charts?


    Yes, I dear say it is.

    >> > Effective pixel locations2268 x 1512
    >> >
    >> > Same comment. And if one is talking purely output/interpolated
    >> > pixels, and not discrete sensors, why not note 13.72MP worth of
    >> > pixel locations, as is noted below?

    >>
    >> How can there be 13.72MP worth of pixel locations? There are only
    >> 10.3M sensors and since there are 3 sensors per location there are a
    >> total of 3.4M locations.

    >
    > 3D, not 2D.


    WHAT?

    Seriously, WHAT?


    >> > Interesting. Never does dpreview note that all Bayer output is
    >> > already "double-size" (interpolated, 4:1).

    >>
    >> Because that is NOT true,

    >
    > It is absolutely true Bayer's are all interpolated. Maybe Phil
    > doesn't know that either.


    Yes all Bayer data is interpolated, but that doesn’t make what you said
    true. Please try to understand, I agree that Bayer data is interpolated
    but you are wrong about HOW it is interpolated.

    >> > X-Sync shutter speedUp to 1/180 sec
    >> >
    >> > But with up to 1/6000 sec available using the EF500 DG Super.

    >>
    >> Was Phil reviewing the EF500 DG Super as part of this review?

    >
    > How can you use it without a flash?


    How is that an answer to my question?

    > You don't even realize Bayers interpolate.


    I have explained to you in MANY posts how Bayer interpolation works, I
    not only know that they interpolate but also (unlike you) I understand
    HOW they interpolate.

    I have not yet seen any posts from anyone on this newsgroup claiming that
    Bayer data is not interpolated. If you think that people don’t realise
    that the Bayer data is interpolated it is not from what you read here.
    (maybe it’s the voices in your head that tell you that)


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Oct 29, 2003
    #4
  5. "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    news:bno3ui$3l4$...
    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    > news:bnnu27$gv$:
    >
    > >
    > > "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bnnuli$vg0$...
    > >> "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    > >> news:bnngv4$kev$:
    > >>
    > >> > Sigma SD-10
    > >> > Sensor. Foveon X3 Pro 10M CMOS Image Sensor
    > >> > . 20.7 x 13.8 mm
    > >> > Photodetectors10.3 million (2268 x 1512 x 3)
    > >> >
    > >> > Ok so far...
    > >> >
    > >> > Total pixel locations2304 x 1536
    > >> >
    > >> > Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above? Does a 3 chip camera
    > >> > only have 1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?
    > >>
    > >> Maybe Phil is not stupid and actually knows what he is talking about.

    > >
    > > Is that why he tests the optical resolution of color interpolating
    > > camera using B&W lens-test charts?

    >
    > Yes, I dear say it is.
    >
    > >> > Effective pixel locations2268 x 1512
    > >> >
    > >> > Same comment. And if one is talking purely output/interpolated
    > >> > pixels, and not discrete sensors, why not note 13.72MP worth of
    > >> > pixel locations, as is noted below?
    > >>
    > >> How can there be 13.72MP worth of pixel locations? There are only
    > >> 10.3M sensors and since there are 3 sensors per location there are a
    > >> total of 3.4M locations.

    > >
    > > 3D, not 2D.

    >
    > WHAT?
    >
    > Seriously, WHAT?


    Read up on how Foveon works. Sensors are layer in 3D.

    > >> > Interesting. Never does dpreview note that all Bayer output is
    > >> > already "double-size" (interpolated, 4:1).
    > >>
    > >> Because that is NOT true,

    > >
    > > It is absolutely true Bayer's are all interpolated. Maybe Phil
    > > doesn't know that either.

    >
    > Yes all Bayer data is interpolated, but that doesn't make what you said
    > true. Please try to understand, I agree that Bayer data is interpolated
    > but you are wrong about HOW it is interpolated.


    Doesn't matter what the routine is used, raw data limits potential quality
    to the number of complete RGB sets collected.

    > >> > X-Sync shutter speedUp to 1/180 sec
    > >> >
    > >> > But with up to 1/6000 sec available using the EF500 DG Super.
    > >>
    > >> Was Phil reviewing the EF500 DG Super as part of this review?

    > >
    > > How can you use it without a flash?

    >
    > How is that an answer to my question?
    >
    > > You don't even realize Bayers interpolate.

    >
    > I have explained to you in MANY posts how Bayer interpolation works, I
    > not only know that they interpolate but also (unlike you) I understand
    > HOW they interpolate.
    >
    > I have not yet seen any posts from anyone on this newsgroup claiming that
    > Bayer data is not interpolated. If you think that people don't realise
    > that the Bayer data is interpolated it is not from what you read here.
    > (maybe it's the voices in your head that tell you that)


    Lashing out immaturely won't help you prove that a 6MP-interpolated Bayer
    image isn't formed from 1.5MP sets of RGB data, because it is. It is 4:1
    interpolated, up-scaled. 4 output pixels per RGB color set, which need
    only be represented as 1. Foveon takes an RGB color set and presents it
    properly as 1 output pixel. Or, optionally, the SD-9 outputs 4:1
    interpolated at 13.72MP. Thats the beauty of having so many more sensors
    than a 6MP-interpolated Bayer.
     
    George Preddy, Oct 29, 2003
    #5
  6. George Preddy

    Ray Fischer Guest

    George Preddy <> wrote:
    > Sigma SD-10
    > --------------
    > TypeDigital SLR (lens interchangeable)
    > Body materialHigh-impact plastic / rubber (metal substructure)
    > Price (kit inc. two lenses)US - $ 1999 [check /order]
    > UK - £ 1249 [check /order]
    > * Includes the SD10 body, 18 - 50 mm DC & 55 - 200 mm DC lenses
    > Price (body only)UK - £ 1099 [check /order]
    > Sensor. Foveon X3 Pro 10M CMOS Image Sensor
    > . 20.7 x 13.8 mm
    > Photodetectors10.3 million (2268 x 1512 x 3)
    >
    >Ok so far...
    >
    > Total pixel locations2304 x 1536
    >
    >Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above?


    Don't you know the difference between "sensor" and "pixel"?

    > Does a 3 chip camera only have
    >1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?


    Ya know, it's bad enough that you care only about the technology of
    the chip, but that you don't even understand half of the bullshit you
    spew makes you truly an idiot.

    > Effective pixel locations2268 x 1512
    >
    >Same comment.


    Maybe you should learn what "pixel" means?

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Oct 29, 2003
    #6
  7. George Preddy

    Azzz1588 Guest

    In article <bno4k6$4m3$>, "George Preddy"
    <> writes:

    >Thats the beauty of having so many more sensors
    >than a 6MP-interpolated Bayer.


    Wow, now you are really streaching.

    Or is it just plain lying...

    Even Sigma says that it is a 3.34 mp camera.


    You sir (madam, or whatever) are a real live idiot.
    (besides being a liar)



















    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
     
    Azzz1588, Oct 29, 2003
    #7
  8. "Azzz1588" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <bno4k6$4m3$>, "George Preddy"
    > <> writes:
    >
    > >Thats the beauty of having so many more sensors
    > >than a 6MP-interpolated Bayer.

    >
    > Wow, now you are really streaching.


    http://www.pbase.com/image/22273598

    > Or is it just plain lying...
    >
    > Even Sigma says that it is a 3.34 mp camera.


    http://www.sigma-photo.com

    > You sir (madam, or whatever) are a real live idiot.
    > (besides being a liar)


    That was easy.
     
    George Preddy, Oct 29, 2003
    #8
  9. "Ray Fischer" <> wrote in message
    news:bnopnu$gc6$...
    > George Preddy <> wrote:
    > > Sigma SD-10
    > > --------------
    > > TypeDigital SLR (lens interchangeable)
    > > Body materialHigh-impact plastic / rubber (metal substructure)
    > > Price (kit inc. two lenses)US - $ 1999 [check /order]
    > > UK - £ 1249 [check /order]
    > > * Includes the SD10 body, 18 - 50 mm DC & 55 - 200 mm DC lenses
    > > Price (body only)UK - £ 1099 [check /order]
    > > Sensor. Foveon X3 Pro 10M CMOS Image Sensor
    > > . 20.7 x 13.8 mm
    > > Photodetectors10.3 million (2268 x 1512 x 3)
    > >
    > >Ok so far...
    > >
    > > Total pixel locations2304 x 1536
    > >
    > >Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above?

    >
    > Don't you know the difference between "sensor" and "pixel"?


    Main Entry: pix·el
    Pronunciation: 'pik-s&l, -"sel
    Function: noun
    Etymology: pix + element
    Date: 1969
    1 : any of the small discrete elements that together constitute an image (as
    on a television screen)
    2 : any of the detecting elements of a charge-coupled device used as an
    optical sensor

    > > Does a 3 chip camera only have
    > >1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?

    >
    > Ya know, it's bad enough that you care only about the technology of
    > the chip, but that you don't even understand half of the bullshit you
    > spew makes you truly an idiot.


    See above and below.

    > > Effective pixel locations2268 x 1512
    > >
    > >Same comment.

    >
    > Maybe you should learn what "pixel" means?


    Maybe you should do your homework before posting a message to me.
     
    George Preddy, Oct 29, 2003
    #9
  10. What I'm finally figuring out here is that George
    gets pleasure from the abuse he invites. Kind
    of an intellectual masochism kinda thing.

    So anyone thinking he'll ever stop if debated/attacked,
    fuhgeddabowdit. Just fuels his fun.

    Sorry I'm so slow on the uptake.

    stan
     
    Stanley Krute, Oct 29, 2003
    #10
  11. George Preddy

    Kenny Guest

    "Stanley Krute" <> wrote in message
    news:DtWnb.3758$...
    > What I'm finally figuring out here is that George
    > gets pleasure from the abuse he invites. Kind
    > of an intellectual masochism kinda thing.


    Careful, using George and intellectual in the same paragraph is a first.
    George thinks he is some form of expert, but what he forgets that due to
    his foveon fixation so you have to divide his IQ by 3 to get the true
    figure.

    Sigma can put any numbers it wants in its adverts and George can spout
    his flat earth theories all day long, but it won't sell the cameras.
    Sorry George, you will still be able to hold Sigma user group meetings
    in the nearest phone booth, with room to spare.

    Kenny
     
    Kenny, Oct 29, 2003
    #11
  12. "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    news:bnngv4$kev$:
    > Ok


    It just dawned on me.

    I and many of us here have been thinking that George, in an effort to
    **HELP** Foveon and Sigma, has been working suspiciously hard to exaggerate
    the performance of the 3 megapixel Foveon sensor.

    How blind we've all been. George must really work for Canon - or Nikon - or
    some other camera maker. Because the sheer volume of his annoying, false
    claims has the effect of turning people who previously had no strong
    opinion about the Foveon sensor and Sigma cameras into anti-Foveon, anti-
    Sigma zealots.

    It's reverse psychology. Very clever.

    Keep up the good work, George, of turning people against Foveon and Sigma.


    --
    To email me, type my 1st name before my last.
     
    Tony Whitaker, Oct 30, 2003
    #12
  13. George Preddy

    Azzz1588 Guest

    In article <bnp99o$m6v$>, "George Preddy"
    <> writes:

    >http://www.sigma-photo.com


    So I now see that Sigma is following with the LIE too !!!

    So at least you can lie, and be in bad company too with
    the company doing the lying. How convienant..............




















    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
     
    Azzz1588, Oct 30, 2003
    #13
  14. George Preddy

    Azzz1588 Guest

    In article <3fa05317$0$22353$>, "Kenny"
    <> writes:

    >Careful, using George and intellectual in the same paragraph is a first.
    >George thinks he is some form of expert, but what he forgets that due to
    >his foveon fixation so you have to divide his IQ by 3 to get the true
    >figure.



    ROFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    (I almost spewed my soda all over the moniter !! :!


























    "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
     
    Azzz1588, Oct 30, 2003
    #14
  15. George Preddy

    Ray Fischer Guest

    George Preddy <> wrote:
    >"Ray Fischer" <> wrote in message
    >news:bnopnu$gc6$...
    >> George Preddy <> wrote:


    >> > Total pixel locations2304 x 1536
    >> >
    >> >Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above?

    >>
    >> Don't you know the difference between "sensor" and "pixel"?

    >
    >Main Entry: pix·el
    >Pronunciation: 'pik-s&l, -"sel
    >Function: noun
    >Etymology: pix + element
    >Date: 1969
    >1 : any of the small discrete elements that together constitute an image (as
    >on a television screen)


    A "dot" of a given color, in other words.

    >> > Does a 3 chip camera only have
    >> >1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?

    >>
    >> Ya know, it's bad enough that you care only about the technology of
    >> the chip, but that you don't even understand half of the bullshit you
    >> spew makes you truly an idiot.

    >
    >See above and below.


    You're still an idiot.

    >> > Effective pixel locations2268 x 1512
    >> >
    >> >Same comment.

    >>
    >> Maybe you should learn what "pixel" means?

    >
    >Maybe you should do your homework before posting a message to me.


    Gee, I have a couple of degree in computer science and spent a fair
    bit of time doing 3D computer graphics.

    What do you have?

    --
    Ray Fischer
     
    Ray Fischer, Oct 30, 2003
    #15
  16. George Preddy

    Lionel Guest

    Word has it that on Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:31:53 +0900, in this august
    forum, "George Preddy" <> said:

    > Total pixel locations2304 x 1536
    >
    >Hey, what happened to the "x 3" noted above? Does a 3 chip camera only have
    >1 chip's worth of pixel loactions?


    Yes, that's correct.

    --
    W
    . | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
    \|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
    ---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Lionel, Oct 30, 2003
    #16
  17. George Preddy

    MarkH Guest

    "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    news:bno4k6$4m3$:

    >
    > "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    > news:bno3ui$3l4$...
    >> "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    >> news:bnnu27$gv$:
    >>
    >> >
    >> > "MarkH" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:bnnuli$vg0$...
    >> >> How can there be 13.72MP worth of pixel locations? There are only
    >> >> 10.3M sensors and since there are 3 sensors per location there are
    >> >> a total of 3.4M locations.
    >> >
    >> > 3D, not 2D.

    >>
    >> WHAT?
    >>
    >> Seriously, WHAT?

    >
    > Read up on how Foveon works. Sensors are layer in 3D.


    What has that got to do with the data produced from the camera? Are you
    trying to say the camera outputs a 3D picture?





    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
    "There are 10 types of people, those that
    understand binary and those that don't"
     
    MarkH, Oct 30, 2003
    #17
  18. George Preddy

    Mark Herring Guest

    See also my post entitled: "attention, George Preddy", plus an
    earlier one about resolution, megapixels, and marketing hype.
    >>
    >> Don't you know the difference between "sensor" and "pixel"?

    >
    >Main Entry: pix·el
    >Pronunciation: 'pik-s&l, -"sel
    >Function: noun
    >Etymology: pix + element
    >Date: 1969
    >1 : any of the small discrete elements that together constitute an image (as
    >on a television screen)
    >2 : any of the detecting elements of a charge-coupled device used as an
    >optical sensor
    >

    Here we go again....

    George's dictionary definition of pixel is correct, but is not placed
    in the context of the debate.

    Definition #1 is the original and least ambiguous. It originated with
    the first digital images which were actually captured with analog
    sensors. The term "pixel" was coined to describe the discrete
    elements in the data stream which were created by the digital sampling
    process.

    Definition #2 is a derivation which is correct ONLY if the "detecting
    elements" map directly into pixels in the data stream. This is in
    fact the case in most commonly used imaging sensors.

    To place this in the context of this most amazing debate, we have to
    return to the basics of sampling theory--to wit: There is a
    deterministic relationship between spatial resolution and the number
    of spatially independent samples acquired. This is most commonly
    described in one dimension. Sampling at---say--50 samples per mm
    results in a "Nyquist limit" of 25 cycles per mm. This is the HIGHEST
    spatial frequency at which one can hope to recover information. The
    actual limit is always less.

    Intrinsic to sampling theory is the requirement for independent
    spatial samples. Multiple samples in the same image location do not
    do anything for spatial resolution. Here is the crux of the issue for
    the Foveon architecture. The sensing sites--photodiodes or
    whatever--are PURPOSELY arranged vertically in order to accomplish the
    spectral purity which Foveon touts as their defining advantage. In
    this arrangement, the sensing sites CANNOT enhance spatial resolution.

    Finally, we must revisit the de-facto standard for how cameras are
    specified: The number of pixels is the number of
    SPATIALLY-INDEPENDENT samples of the scene, and directly relates to
    the intrinsic spatial resolution of the device. Following this
    definition, the Foveon is a 3+ Mpixel sensor.

    PLEASE: consistent with my challenge to George in the thread
    referenced earlier: Substantive replies only. Out of context
    one-liners or quotes from the dictionary are not useful.

    -Mark
    *****************************************
    digital photos, more and better computers,
    and never enough time to do the projects.
    Private e-mail: Just say no to No
     
    Mark Herring, Oct 30, 2003
    #18
  19. George Preddy

    George Kerby Guest

    On 10/29/03 8:35 PM, in article Xns9423DAD791EFDlettonyin@207.69.154.202,
    "Tony Whitaker" <> wrote:

    > "George Preddy" <> wrote in
    > news:bnngv4$kev$:
    >> Ok

    >
    > It just dawned on me.
    >
    > I and many of us here have been thinking that George, in an effort to
    > **HELP** Foveon and Sigma, has been working suspiciously hard to exaggerate
    > the performance of the 3 megapixel Foveon sensor.
    >
    > How blind we've all been. George must really work for Canon - or Nikon - or
    > some other camera maker. Because the sheer volume of his annoying, false
    > claims has the effect of turning people who previously had no strong
    > opinion about the Foveon sensor and Sigma cameras into anti-Foveon, anti-
    > Sigma zealots.
    >
    > It's reverse psychology. Very clever.
    >
    > Keep up the good work, George, of turning people against Foveon and Sigma.
    >

    Sigma = smegma
    Sigma sucks!


    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
    <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
     
    George Kerby, Oct 30, 2003
    #19
  20. George Preddy

    George Kerby Guest

    On 10/29/03 9:01 PM, in article
    , "Azzz1588" <>
    wrote:

    > In article <bnp99o$m6v$>, "George Preddy"
    > <> writes:
    >
    >> http://www.sigma-photo.com

    >
    > So I now see that Sigma is following with the LIE too !!!
    >
    > So at least you can lie, and be in bad company too with
    > the company doing the lying. How convienant..............
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
    >
    >

    Sigma = smegma
    Sigma sucks!


    _______________________________________________________________________________
    Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
    <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
     
    George Kerby, Oct 30, 2003
    #20
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