Leica M8 review on Luminous-Landscape

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Kinon O'Cann, Oct 30, 2006.

  1. Kinon O'Cann

    Kinon O'Cann Guest

    Reichman's review is up, and if you wish to believe him, Leica has hit a
    home run with this one.

    www.luminous-landscape.com

    I'd like to see some direct comparisons between this camera and the Canon 5D
    with L primes. Would be interesting.
    Kinon O'Cann, Oct 30, 2006
    #1
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  2. Kinon O'Cann

    Scott W Guest

    Kinon O'Cann wrote:
    > Reichman's review is up, and if you wish to believe him, Leica has hit a
    > home run with this one.
    >
    > www.luminous-landscape.com
    >
    > I'd like to see some direct comparisons between this camera and the Canon 5D
    > with L primes. Would be interesting.


    The test photos makes it look like the 5D is blowing it out of the
    water.
    Note on the flags crop that not only does the 5D have much less noise
    but you can easily make out the double lines around the crest on the
    flag in the Canon photo and the Leica more or less blurs it all
    together.

    I really think Leica's offering here falls far short of where it
    should when they are asking that amount of money.

    Scott
    Scott W, Oct 30, 2006
    #2
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  3. Scott W wrote:
    > Kinon O'Cann wrote:
    >> Reichman's review is up, and if you wish to believe him, Leica has
    >> hit a home run with this one.
    >>
    >> www.luminous-landscape.com
    >>
    >> I'd like to see some direct comparisons between this camera and the
    >> Canon 5D with L primes. Would be interesting.

    >
    > The test photos makes it look like the 5D is blowing it out of the
    > water.
    > Note on the flags crop that not only does the 5D have much less noise
    > but you can easily make out the double lines around the crest on the
    > flag in the Canon photo and the Leica more or less blurs it all
    > together.
    >
    > I really think Leica's offering here falls far short of where it
    > should when they are asking that amount of money.
    >
    > Scott


    Then buy a 5D.

    If I could afford one without re-mortgaging the house, I would buy one. I
    would just about get enough dosh by selling my BMW, but then, I would want a
    Ferrari.

    Guess my D70 will have to do for now. There's always the Lottery.

    Dennis.
    Dennis Pogson, Oct 30, 2006
    #3
  4. Kinon O'Cann

    frederick Guest

    Scott W wrote:
    > Kinon O'Cann wrote:
    >> Reichman's review is up, and if you wish to believe him, Leica has hit a
    >> home run with this one.
    >>
    >> www.luminous-landscape.com
    >>
    >> I'd like to see some direct comparisons between this camera and the Canon 5D
    >> with L primes. Would be interesting.

    >
    > The test photos makes it look like the 5D is blowing it out of the
    > water.
    > Note on the flags crop that not only does the 5D have much less noise
    > but you can easily make out the double lines around the crest on the
    > flag in the Canon photo and the Leica more or less blurs it all
    > together.
    >
    > I really think Leica's offering here falls far short of where it
    > should when they are asking that amount of money.
    >


    It's bling. Any of the dslr makers could churn out something better.
    frederick, Oct 30, 2006
    #4
  5. Kinon O'Cann

    Alfred Molon Guest

    In article <>, Scott
    W says...

    > The test photos makes it look like the 5D is blowing it out of the
    > water.
    > Note on the flags crop that not only does the 5D have much less noise
    > but you can easily make out the double lines around the crest on the
    > flag in the Canon photo and the Leica more or less blurs it all
    > together.


    That's at the highest ISO levels, which normally you wouldn't use. ISO
    3200 is an emergency mode anyway and you'll do most of the shooting at
    lower ISO levels.
    --

    Alfred Molon
    ------------------------------
    Olympus 50X0, 7070, 8080, E300, E330, E400 and E500 forum at
    http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
    Olympus E330 resource - http://myolympus.org/E330/
    Alfred Molon, Oct 30, 2006
    #5
  6. Kinon O'Cann

    bmoag Guest

    I would get one tomorrow if I could justify the cost. The sensor technology
    is clearly adequate for the Leica mystique.
    The reviewer takes great pains to point out that the rangefinder camera
    experience is the core value of this camera and you either like it or you
    don't.
    I wonder if the recent spate of Leica M film clones will make the digital
    transition or if they are dead end products?
    bmoag, Oct 30, 2006
    #6
  7. Kinon O'Cann

    deryck lant Guest

    The message <XMq1h.8$>
    from "Kinon O'Cann" <> contains these words:

    > Reichman's review is up, and if you wish to believe him, Leica has hit a
    > home run with this one.


    > www.luminous-landscape.com


    > I'd like to see some direct comparisons between this camera and the
    > Canon 5D
    > with L primes. Would be interesting.


    As the review says:

    In the case of the Leica M8 I am pleased to report that overall image
    quality is
    second to none. Only the Canon 5D and 1Ds MKII are better at high ISO,
    and at ISO 400 and lower the M8 is their equal. Then again, right now there
    are no other cameras producing as clean high ISO images as these two Canons.
    But when combined with the superior quality of Leica lenses, and the
    fact that
    the M8 does not have a resolution reducing AA filter, I would argue that
    there
    are no current 35mm format cameras which offer superior image quality to the
    Leica M8 at ISO 400 and lower.
    deryck lant, Oct 30, 2006
    #7
  8. "deryck lant" <> quoted:
    >
    >> www.luminous-landscape.com

    >
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    > As the review says:
    >
    > In the case of the Leica M8 I am pleased to report that overall image
    > quality is
    > second to none. Only the Canon 5D and 1Ds MKII are better at high ISO,
    > and at ISO 400 and lower the M8 is their equal. Then again, right now
    > there
    > are no other cameras producing as clean high ISO images as these two
    > Canons.
    > But when combined with the superior quality of Leica lenses, and the
    > fact that
    > the M8 does not have a resolution reducing AA filter, I would argue that
    > there
    > are no current 35mm format cameras which offer superior image quality to
    > the
    > Leica M8 at ISO 400 and lower.

    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    A Bayer camera without an AA filter is a color Moiré disaster waiting to
    happen on every shot. The MF back users were just beginning to figure this
    out when I stopped following those lists.

    Sure, the images look just like Foveon images (snap-to-grid pixel-level
    sharpness), but find some patterns that repeat at the wrong frequency, and
    you'll be dead in the water. IMHO, the Foveon snap-to-grid pixel-level
    sharpness itself is bogus, but at least it doesn't do color Moiré.

    Sheesh. Leica is so off the wall, they have me saying nice things about
    Foveon. That's impressive.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 30, 2006
    #8
  9. Kinon O'Cann

    Scott W Guest

    Alfred Molon wrote:
    > In article <>, Scott
    > W says...
    >
    > > The test photos makes it look like the 5D is blowing it out of the
    > > water.
    > > Note on the flags crop that not only does the 5D have much less noise
    > > but you can easily make out the double lines around the crest on the
    > > flag in the Canon photo and the Leica more or less blurs it all
    > > together.

    >
    > That's at the highest ISO levels, which normally you wouldn't use. ISO
    > 3200 is an emergency mode anyway and you'll do most of the shooting at
    > lower ISO levels.

    Except we have heard for years about how great the Leica is in low
    light, partly because there is no mirror slap and partly because you
    can shoot with the lens wide open. But the 5D will blow away the Leica
    in low light shooting and for a whole lot less money. If your selling
    point has been low light photography for years you better make a
    digital that can work at high ISOs.

    Scott
    Scott W, Oct 30, 2006
    #9
  10. Kinon O'Cann

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Scott W" <> writes:
    > Except we have heard for years about how great the Leica is in low
    > light, partly because there is no mirror slap and partly because you
    > can shoot with the lens wide open. But the 5D will blow away the Leica
    > in low light shooting and for a whole lot less money. If your selling
    > point has been low light photography for years you better make a
    > digital that can work at high ISOs.


    The traditional Leica low light shot was also black and white, while
    the M8 (and 5D) use a color Bayer filter that kills somewhere between
    one and two stops of the light reaching the sensor. Leica gets
    interesting when they use a full frame, monochrome CCD.
    Paul Rubin, Oct 30, 2006
    #10
  11. "Paul Rubin" <http://> wrote:
    > "Scott W" <> writes:
    >> Except we have heard for years about how great the Leica is in low
    >> light, partly because there is no mirror slap and partly because you
    >> can shoot with the lens wide open. But the 5D will blow away the Leica
    >> in low light shooting and for a whole lot less money. If your selling
    >> point has been low light photography for years you better make a
    >> digital that can work at high ISOs.

    >
    > The traditional Leica low light shot was also black and white, while
    > the M8 (and 5D) use a color Bayer filter that kills somewhere between
    > one and two stops of the light reaching the sensor.


    Reality check. The 5D at ISO 1600 will make 13x19 B&W prints that look
    better than ISO 400 8x10s from a Leica loaded with Tri-X that will later be
    developed in Rodinal.

    David J. Littleboy
    Tokyo, Japan
    David J. Littleboy, Oct 30, 2006
    #11
  12. Kinon O'Cann

    deryck lant Guest

    The message <HPt1h.17549$>
    from "bmoag" <> contains these words:

    > I would get one tomorrow if I could justify the cost. The sensor technology
    > is clearly adequate for the Leica mystique.
    > The reviewer takes great pains to point out that the rangefinder camera
    > experience is the core value of this camera and you either like it or you
    > don't.
    > I wonder if the recent spate of Leica M film clones will make the digital
    > transition or if they are dead end products?


    As an optimist I think that as the cost of digital implementation drops then
    the major players will make the transition. That great legacy of supreme
    glass cannot be ignored.

    Deryck
    deryck lant, Oct 30, 2006
    #12
  13. Kinon O'Cann

    Scott W Guest

    David J. Littleboy wrote:
    > "Paul Rubin" <http://> wrote:
    > > "Scott W" <> writes:
    > >> Except we have heard for years about how great the Leica is in low
    > >> light, partly because there is no mirror slap and partly because you
    > >> can shoot with the lens wide open. But the 5D will blow away the Leica
    > >> in low light shooting and for a whole lot less money. If your selling
    > >> point has been low light photography for years you better make a
    > >> digital that can work at high ISOs.

    > >
    > > The traditional Leica low light shot was also black and white, while
    > > the M8 (and 5D) use a color Bayer filter that kills somewhere between
    > > one and two stops of the light reaching the sensor.

    >
    > Reality check. The 5D at ISO 1600 will make 13x19 B&W prints that look
    > better than ISO 400 8x10s from a Leica loaded with Tri-X that will later be
    > developed in Rodinal.

    But Paul is suggesting a monochrome FF CCD, which would be pretty neat
    but also pretty limited in appeal.

    Scott
    Scott W, Oct 30, 2006
    #13
  14. Kinon O'Cann

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "David J. Littleboy" <> writes:
    > Reality check. The 5D at ISO 1600 will make 13x19 B&W prints that look
    > better than ISO 400 8x10s from a Leica loaded with Tri-X that will later be
    > developed in Rodinal.


    Why stop there?
    Paul Rubin, Oct 30, 2006
    #14
  15. Kinon O'Cann

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Scott W" <> writes:
    > But Paul is suggesting a monochrome FF CCD, which would be pretty neat
    > but also pretty limited in appeal.


    Limited in appeal compared to what? B&W film was also limited in
    appeal.

    Fuji is now selling an IR version of the S3 Professional DSLR. That
    has to be even more limited in appeal than a monochrome camera.
    Paul Rubin, Oct 30, 2006
    #15
  16. Kinon O'Cann

    Jim Guest

    "deryck lant" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > The message <XMq1h.8$>
    > from "Kinon O'Cann" <> contains these words:
    >
    >> Reichman's review is up, and if you wish to believe him, Leica has hit a
    >> home run with this one.

    >
    >> www.luminous-landscape.com

    >
    >> I'd like to see some direct comparisons between this camera and the
    >> Canon 5D
    >> with L primes. Would be interesting.

    >
    > As the review says:
    >
    > In the case of the Leica M8 I am pleased to report that overall image
    > quality is
    > second to none. Only the Canon 5D and 1Ds MKII are better at high ISO,
    > and at ISO 400 and lower the M8 is their equal. Then again, right now
    > there
    > are no other cameras producing as clean high ISO images as these two
    > Canons.
    > But when combined with the superior quality of Leica lenses, and the
    > fact that
    > the M8 does not have a resolution reducing AA filter, I would argue that
    > there
    > are no current 35mm format cameras which offer superior image quality to
    > the
    > Leica M8 at ISO 400 and lower.

    You ought to get something for all that money.
    Jim
    Jim, Oct 30, 2006
    #16
  17. Kinon O'Cann

    Scott W Guest

    Paul Rubin wrote:
    > "Scott W" <> writes:
    > > But Paul is suggesting a monochrome FF CCD, which would be pretty neat
    > > but also pretty limited in appeal.

    >
    > Limited in appeal compared to what? B&W film was also limited in
    > appeal.
    >
    > Fuji is now selling an IR version of the S3 Professional DSLR. That
    > has to be even more limited in appeal than a monochrome camera.


    But you can't really do IR with a standard DSLR. Sure you can sort of
    do it will a filter and very long exposures but it does not come close
    to what a camera that does not have the IR blocking filter can do.

    But a color DSLR can do a pretty go job of B/W for those who like that
    look.
    And from reading a lot of post froms B/W fans many of them would not
    want to do their B/W work with a digital camera. They claim to like
    the look of silver prints that are done on enlarger and claim that they
    like the process of making the prints by hand.

    I am not saying that there would not be a market for such a camera but
    I think it would be a very small market. Still it would be a whole lot
    more interesting than the M8.

    Scott
    Scott W, Oct 30, 2006
    #17
  18. David J. Littleboy wrote:
    []
    > A Bayer camera without an AA filter is a color Moiré disaster waiting
    > to happen on every shot. The MF back users were just beginning to
    > figure this out when I stopped following those lists.
    >
    > Sure, the images look just like Foveon images (snap-to-grid
    > pixel-level sharpness), but find some patterns that repeat at the
    > wrong frequency, and you'll be dead in the water. IMHO, the Foveon
    > snap-to-grid pixel-level sharpness itself is bogus, but at least it
    > doesn't do color Moiré.
    > Sheesh. Leica is so off the wall, they have me saying nice things
    > about Foveon. That's impressive.
    >
    > David J. Littleboy
    > Tokyo, Japan


    Of course, it would be OK if the lenses had an MTF cut-off equivalent to
    the AA filter. But being Leica lenses, they don't....

    David
    David J Taylor, Oct 31, 2006
    #18
  19. Scott W wrote:
    []
    > But Paul is suggesting a monochrome FF CCD, which would be pretty neat
    > but also pretty limited in appeal.
    >
    > Scott


    "Which camera do I take today - the monochrome M8M or the colour M8?"

    Leica might sell twice the number of cameras! <G>

    David
    David J Taylor, Oct 31, 2006
    #19
  20. deryck lant wrote:

    > The message <HPt1h.17549$>
    > from "bmoag" <> contains these words:
    >
    > > I would get one tomorrow if I could justify the cost. The sensor technology
    > > is clearly adequate for the Leica mystique.
    > > The reviewer takes great pains to point out that the rangefinder camera
    > > experience is the core value of this camera and you either like it or you
    > > don't.


    He takes great pains to explain that a rangefinder has plus points
    provided you know how to use the equipment.

    > > I wonder if the recent spate of Leica M film clones will make the digital
    > > transition or if they are dead end products?

    >

    you mean they have clones?

    > As an optimist I think that as the cost of digital implementation drops then
    > the major players will make the transition. That great legacy of supreme
    > glass cannot be ignored.
    >


    >From what I gather, the instant gratification of seeing the shot

    -rather than have it developed, has forced early adoption of digital.
    The technology doesn't seem to be ready despite consumers clamouring
    for it.

    regards
    -kamal
    Kamal R. Prasad, Oct 31, 2006
    #20
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