Leica lens on Panasonic subcompact - any good?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Sammy, Jun 12, 2007.

  1. Sammy

    Sammy Guest

    Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as Nikkor. It
    diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was ok.

    Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses. (I've
    only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long time.)

    http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/leica.html
    http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html

    I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which was
    very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than the
    lenses on similar cameras?
     
    Sammy, Jun 12, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Sammy

    Frank Arthur Guest

    "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    > Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as >
    >Nikkor.


    Please provide EVIDENCE that Nikon ever "rebranded" Nikkormat lenses.
    I think you are full of crap and fabricate as you write.



    > It
    > diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was ok.
    >
    > Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses.
    > (I've
    > only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long time.)
    >
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/leica.html
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html
    >
    > I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which
    > was
    > very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than the
    > lenses on similar cameras?
     
    Frank Arthur, Jun 12, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Sammy

    =\(8\) Guest

    "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    > Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as Nikkor. It
    > diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was ok.
    >
    > Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses. (I've
    > only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long time.)
    >
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/leica.html
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html
    >
    > I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which was
    > very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than the
    > lenses on similar cameras?



    Leica sets the specifications that Panasonic must follow in order to claim
    it is a Leica lens. However, Leica does not make the lens Panasonic does.
    Having owned both a FZ20 and I still own an FZ30 the lenses are very
    impressive. The same is true for the FZ50, however for it the higher
    resolution, small sensor and totally crappy noise reduction makes that
    camera total junk. However, the Leica lenses are fantastic.

    =(8)
     
    =\(8\), Jun 12, 2007
    #3
  4. Sammy

    if Guest

    "=\(8\)" <> wrote:

    > "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    >>
    >> I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which
    >> was very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than
    >> the lenses on similar cameras?

    >
    > Leica sets the specifications that Panasonic must follow in order to
    > claim it is a Leica lens. However, Leica does not make the lens
    > Panasonic does.


    According to the blurb on the box, "Leica DC lenses are manufactured
    using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have
    been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality
    standards". I would have thought the lenses were also designed by Leica,
    though it doesn't actually state this so I don't know for sure.

    I've certainly no complaints about the lens quality, it's just a shame
    they chose to team up with a second-tier sensor manufacturer.
     
    if, Jun 12, 2007
    #4
  5. Sammy

    Yoshi Guest

    You are clueless. There are no "Nikkormat lenses" At the time the
    Nikkormats were produced, Nikon marketed Nikkor lenses for them. The Series
    E lenses marketed as "Nikon" weren't rebranded, and were made to sell with
    the EM and FG series cameras. Don't spread misinformation. If you don't
    know what you are talking about, STFU.

    "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    > Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as Nikkor. It
    > diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was ok.
    >
    > Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses. (I've
    > only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long time.)
    >
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/leica.html
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html
    >
    > I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which was
    > very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than the
    > lenses on similar cameras?
    >


    You are clueless. There are no "Nikkormat lenses" At the time the
    Nikkormats were produced, Nikon marketed Nikkor lenses for them. The Series
    E lenses marketed as "Nikon" weren't rebranded, and were made to sell with
    the EM and FG series cameras. Don't spread misinformation. If you don't
    know what you are talking about, STFU.

    Yoshi
     
    Yoshi, Jun 12, 2007
    #5
  6. Sammy

    Stan Beck Guest

    An interesting note is that some of Leica compact cameras are almost
    identical to Panasonic, because that is what they are, with some minor spec
    changes for Leica. Is it not curious that Panasonic would allow it's
    cameras to be sold with the Leica name on it? ;-)

    It's an OEM partnership.

    --
    The smaller the fine print, the less you will like what it says.

    Stan Beck > From New Orleans to Brandon MS
    To reply, remove 101 from address.
    ***

    "if" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns994DC74FE77BA3D9@212.23.3.119...
    > "=\(8\)" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    >>>
    >>> I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which
    >>> was very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than
    >>> the lenses on similar cameras?

    >>
    >> Leica sets the specifications that Panasonic must follow in order to
    >> claim it is a Leica lens. However, Leica does not make the lens
    >> Panasonic does.

    >
    > According to the blurb on the box, "Leica DC lenses are manufactured
    > using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have
    > been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality
    > standards". I would have thought the lenses were also designed by Leica,
    > though it doesn't actually state this so I don't know for sure.
    >
    > I've certainly no complaints about the lens quality, it's just a shame
    > they chose to team up with a second-tier sensor manufacturer.
     
    Stan Beck, Jun 12, 2007
    #6
  7. Sammy

    Garrot Guest

    On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:44:15 -0500, "Stan Beck"
    <> wrote:

    >An interesting note is that some of Leica compact cameras are almost
    >identical to Panasonic, because that is what they are, with some minor spec
    >changes for Leica. Is it not curious that Panasonic would allow it's
    >cameras to be sold with the Leica name on it? ;-)
    >
    >It's an OEM partnership.


    Interesting. The sales person at the store was giving me the hard sell
    by telling me that the Leica lense on the Panasonics is the best there
    is because Leica make the best lenses. Now I can go back and tell her
    she is FOS as the lense is not even manufactured by Leica.
     
    Garrot, Jun 12, 2007
    #7
  8. Sammy

    =\(8\) Guest

    "if" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns994DC74FE77BA3D9@212.23.3.119...
    > "=\(8\)" <> wrote:
    >
    >> "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    >>>
    >>> I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which
    >>> was very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than
    >>> the lenses on similar cameras?

    >>
    >> Leica sets the specifications that Panasonic must follow in order to
    >> claim it is a Leica lens. However, Leica does not make the lens
    >> Panasonic does.

    >
    > According to the blurb on the box, "Leica DC lenses are manufactured
    > using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have
    > been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality
    > standards". I would have thought the lenses were also designed by Leica,
    > though it doesn't actually state this so I don't know for sure.
    >
    > I've certainly no complaints about the lens quality, it's just a shame
    > they chose to team up with a second-tier sensor manufacturer.



    Panasonic has said that they build the lenses but have to mean Leica's
    standards to use their name. Makes sense Leica wouldn't want their name
    tarnished with crap lenses. They leave that to Kodak.

    =(8)
     
    =\(8\), Jun 12, 2007
    #8
  9. Sammy

    =\(8\) Guest

    "Stan Beck" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > An interesting note is that some of Leica compact cameras are almost
    > identical to Panasonic, because that is what they are, with some minor
    > spec changes for Leica. Is it not curious that Panasonic would allow it's
    > cameras to be sold with the Leica name on it? ;-)
    >
    > It's an OEM partnership.
    >
    > --
    > The smaller the fine print, the less you will like what it says.
    >
    > Stan Beck > From New Orleans to Brandon MS
    > To reply, remove 101 from address.
    > ***
    >
    > "if" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns994DC74FE77BA3D9@212.23.3.119...
    >> "=\(8\)" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    >>>>
    >>>> I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which
    >>>> was very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than
    >>>> the lenses on similar cameras?
    >>>
    >>> Leica sets the specifications that Panasonic must follow in order to
    >>> claim it is a Leica lens. However, Leica does not make the lens
    >>> Panasonic does.

    >>
    >> According to the blurb on the box, "Leica DC lenses are manufactured
    >> using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have
    >> been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality
    >> standards". I would have thought the lenses were also designed by Leica,
    >> though it doesn't actually state this so I don't know for sure.
    >>
    >> I've certainly no complaints about the lens quality, it's just a shame
    >> they chose to team up with a second-tier sensor manufacturer.

    >
    >


    Actually not it is not surprising that Panasonic would do that. Especially
    if they want to use the Leica name which gives them a much more salable
    camera. The Leica name carries a lot of weight in photography circles.

    =(8)
     
    =\(8\), Jun 12, 2007
    #9
  10. Sammy

    =\(8\) Guest

    "Garrot" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:44:15 -0500, "Stan Beck"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>An interesting note is that some of Leica compact cameras are almost
    >>identical to Panasonic, because that is what they are, with some minor
    >>spec
    >>changes for Leica. Is it not curious that Panasonic would allow it's
    >>cameras to be sold with the Leica name on it? ;-)
    >>
    >>It's an OEM partnership.

    >
    > Interesting. The sales person at the store was giving me the hard sell
    > by telling me that the Leica lense on the Panasonics is the best there
    > is because Leica make the best lenses. Now I can go back and tell her
    > she is FOS as the lense is not even manufactured by Leica.



    Actually she isn't full of shit. The Leica lens are among the best made. The
    fact that Leica doesn't actually assemble them for Panasonic has nothing to
    do with it. The fact that in order for Panasonic to use the Leica name the
    lenses have to made to exactly specifications laid out by Leica is what's
    important. Besides if you think that Leica has people sitting around all day
    assembling lenses by hand your the one full of shit. Like everything else
    these days the lenses are made in some Asian or other 3rd world country, but
    to Leica's specifications meeting Leica's standards.

    =(8)
     
    =\(8\), Jun 13, 2007
    #10
  11. Sammy

    notbob Guest

    On 2007-06-12, =(8) <> wrote:

    > camera. The Leica name carries a lot of weight in photography circles.


    How about the camera? Is it made of metal or is just another heap of
    plastic that'll crack the first time it's dropped?

    nb
     
    notbob, Jun 13, 2007
    #11
  12. Sammy

    if Guest

    notbob <> wrote:

    > On 2007-06-12, =(8) <> wrote:
    >
    >> camera. The Leica name carries a lot of weight in photography circles.

    >
    > How about the camera? Is it made of metal or is just another heap of
    > plastic that'll crack the first time it's dropped?


    Mine is metal. It's quite heavy for it's size, the same weight as my old
    Olympus MyuII yet only half the size. However it doesn't look very
    dustproof or waterproof due to all the buttons and little holes, it really
    needs to be kept in a case but they don't supply one in the box, which I
    thought was very cheapskate: my old Olympus came with a leather case even
    though its capsule design means it didn't really need one.
     
    if, Jun 13, 2007
    #12
  13. Sammy

    Rich Guest

    On Jun 12, 1:38 pm, Sammy <> wrote:
    > Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as Nikkor. It
    > diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was ok.
    >
    > Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses. (I've
    > only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long time.)
    >
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/...ic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html
    >
    > I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which was
    > very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than the
    > lenses on similar cameras?



    Those Leica lenses are as "Leica" as the lens in an old Kodak.
    The biggest con in cheap cameras is namedropping German lens design
    companies, that have next to ZERO to do with the lens their name is
    stamped on.
     
    Rich, Jun 13, 2007
    #13
  14. Sammy

    =\(8\) Guest

    "notbob" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 2007-06-12, =(8) <> wrote:
    >
    >> camera. The Leica name carries a lot of weight in photography circles.

    >
    > How about the camera? Is it made of metal or is just another heap of
    > plastic that'll crack the first time it's dropped?
    >
    > nb


    What's the difference between a crack in the plastic and a dent in the
    metal. In the end the result is the same. You case is damaged and the guts
    maybe as well. People that think plastic cased cameras are cheap are just
    idiots. I can you are unaware of it we have plastic now that can stop
    bullets. Besides you drop just about any camera and you have most likely
    trashed it. Of course there are some rare miracles but not many.

    =(8)
     
    =\(8\), Jun 13, 2007
    #14
  15. Sammy

    =\(8\) Guest

    "Rich" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Jun 12, 1:38 pm, Sammy <> wrote:
    >> Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as Nikkor. It
    >> diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was ok.
    >>
    >> Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses. (I've
    >> only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long time.)
    >>
    >> http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/...ic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html
    >>
    >> I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which was
    >> very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than the
    >> lenses on similar cameras?

    >
    >
    > Those Leica lenses are as "Leica" as the lens in an old Kodak.
    > The biggest con in cheap cameras is namedropping German lens design
    > companies, that have next to ZERO to do with the lens their name is
    > stamped on.
    >


    You are so full of it Rich. I submit that any company that allows there
    names to be slapped on another's products and has no say in the quality of
    the products or the quality of the technology said company is responsible
    for is not a company that makes a good product. Leica is simply not going to
    let Panasonic of anyone else simply slap their name on a product unless it
    meets or exceeds their quality and design requirements. To do so is the
    fastest way to trash a company. Those that do are already trash.

    =(8)
     
    =\(8\), Jun 13, 2007
    #15
  16. Sammy wrote:
    > Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as Nikkor. It
    > diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was ok.
    >
    > Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses.
    > (I've only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long time.)
    >
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/leica.html
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html
    >
    > I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which was
    > very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than the
    > lenses on similar cameras?


    Yes, they do appear to be better than their Canon equivalents. We have
    the slightly larger Panasonic FZ5 and FZ20 and have no hesitation in
    recommending them.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jun 13, 2007
    #16
  17. Sammy

    Akiralx Guest

    "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    > Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as Nikkor. It
    > diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was ok.
    >
    > Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses. (I've
    > only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long time.)
    >
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/leica.html
    > http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html
    >
    > I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which was
    > very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than the
    > lenses on similar cameras?


    I have the Panasonic LX2 and FX01, both with Leica lenses. Most reviewers
    seem to find the lenses excellent, though neither camera performs well in
    low light/high ISO.
     
    Akiralx, Jun 13, 2007
    #17
  18. Sammy

    Stan Beck Guest

    Yes, you didn't notice my little " ;-) "

    The Panasonic is a nice little camera - I have one. Not as good as my Nikon
    D200, but not bad. In the deal, Panasonic uses Nikon lenses, and Leica buys
    the case and electronics from Panasonic - both win without having to invest
    millions in new manufacturing.

    --
    The smaller the fine print, the less you will like what it says.

    Stan Beck > From New Orleans to Brandon MS
    To reply, remove 101 from address.
    ***

    "=(8)" <> wrote in message
    news:466f24c5$0$14128$...
    > "Stan Beck" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> An interesting note is that some of Leica compact cameras are almost
    >> identical to Panasonic, because that is what they are, with some minor
    >> spec changes for Leica. Is it not curious that Panasonic would allow
    >> it's cameras to be sold with the Leica name on it? ;-)
    >>
    >> It's an OEM partnership.
    >>
    >> --
    >> The smaller the fine print, the less you will like what it says.
    >>
    >> Stan Beck > From New Orleans to Brandon MS
    >> To reply, remove 101 from address.
    >> ***
    >>
    >> "if" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns994DC74FE77BA3D9@212.23.3.119...
    >>> "=\(8\)" <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    >>>> news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which
    >>>>> was very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than
    >>>>> the lenses on similar cameras?
    >>>>
    >>>> Leica sets the specifications that Panasonic must follow in order to
    >>>> claim it is a Leica lens. However, Leica does not make the lens
    >>>> Panasonic does.
    >>>
    >>> According to the blurb on the box, "Leica DC lenses are manufactured
    >>> using measurement instruments and quality assurance systems that have
    >>> been certified by Leica Camera AG based on the company's quality
    >>> standards". I would have thought the lenses were also designed by Leica,
    >>> though it doesn't actually state this so I don't know for sure.
    >>>
    >>> I've certainly no complaints about the lens quality, it's just a shame
    >>> they chose to team up with a second-tier sensor manufacturer.

    >>
    >>

    >
    > Actually not it is not surprising that Panasonic would do that. Especially
    > if they want to use the Leica name which gives them a much more salable
    > camera. The Leica name carries a lot of weight in photography circles.
    >
    > =(8)
     
    Stan Beck, Jun 13, 2007
    #18
  19. Sammy

    Stan Beck Guest

    Or a crack in the lens - I can't wait for metal lenses.

    --
    The smaller the fine print, the less you will like what it says.

    Stan Beck > From New Orleans to Brandon MS
    To reply, remove 101 from address.
    ***

    "=(8)" <> wrote in message
    news:466f6e19$0$14122$...
    > "notbob" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> On 2007-06-12, =(8) <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> camera. The Leica name carries a lot of weight in photography circles.

    >>
    >> How about the camera? Is it made of metal or is just another heap of
    >> plastic that'll crack the first time it's dropped?
    >>
    >> nb

    >
    > What's the difference between a crack in the plastic and a dent in the
    > metal. In the end the result is the same. You case is damaged and the guts
    > maybe as well. People that think plastic cased cameras are cheap are just
    > idiots. I can you are unaware of it we have plastic now that can stop
    > bullets. Besides you drop just about any camera and you have most likely
    > trashed it. Of course there are some rare miracles but not many.
    >
    > =(8)
     
    Stan Beck, Jun 13, 2007
    #19
  20. Sammy

    Sammy Guest

    On 12 Jun 2007, Frank Arthur <> wrote:

    >
    > "Sammy" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns994DBDA653782451E7A@127.0.0.1...
    >> Many years ago we saw Nikon rebrand Nikkormat lenses as >
    >>Nikkor.

    >
    > Please provide EVIDENCE that Nikon ever "rebranded" Nikkormat
    > lenses. I think you are full of crap and fabricate as you write.
    >
    >
    >
    >> It diluted some of the brand value of Nikon but in the end all was
    >> ok.
    >>
    >> Now some Panasonic subcompact digital cameras have Leica lenses.
    >> (I've only just noticed but maybe they have done it for a long
    >> time.)
    >>
    >> http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/leica.html
    >> http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/fx12_10/index.html
    >>
    >> I can't think Leitz would want to have its name on something which
    >> was very average. Is this baby a Leica lens generally better than
    >> the lenses on similar cameras?

    >
    >


    Frank, by rebrand I mean that Nikon changed the brand bame of their
    entry level cameras and lenses. The old brand name in the 1970s of
    Nikkormat was replaced by the Nikon brand.

    The Nikkormat EL2 became the Nikon FE.

    Check it out.

    Apologies accepted.
     
    Sammy, Jun 13, 2007
    #20
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