Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to optout?

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by Doc, Nov 14, 2009.

  1. Doc

    Doc Guest

    I keep getting these e-mail "newsletters" that are linked to a forum I
    joined. Couldn't care less about the contents, when I asked how to
    unsubscribe from them the response I got was there's no way to, they
    send it to everybody. Is this legal? The emails themselves are mildly
    annoying but I'm even more po'd about their "policy".
     
    Doc, Nov 14, 2009
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Doc

    Mike Easter Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an optionto opt out?

    posted to 24hshd only

    Doc wrote:
    > I keep getting these e-mail "newsletters" that are linked to a forum I
    > joined. Couldn't care less about the contents, when I asked how to
    > unsubscribe from them the response I got was there's no way to, they
    > send it to everybody. Is this legal? The emails themselves are mildly
    > annoying but I'm even more po'd about their "policy".


    You didn't provide a link to the forum in question, but if part of the
    'deal' (you made with them) is that you agree that if you are allowed to
    be a member of that forum then you are also agreeing to receive their
    newsletters, then the newsletters aren't spam (unsolicited bulk) and
    can't be notified (reported) as such.

    There is *NO* legal issue here whatsoever.

    Among your choices are the option to configure your mailuser agent to
    put those newsletters somewhere that you don't have to see them.

    Some newsletters and emagazines with advertising have deals with
    advertisers based on their circulation, just like deadtree magazines do.
    The newsletter/emag sells ads based on a verifiable circulation which
    could be verified by the membership of the forum which you find has an
    obligatory newsletter.

    The whole deal makes perfectly good sense to me.

    I have subscribed to newsletter/emags in the past which had paid
    advertisements. I have visited their advertiser webpages to see how much
    they charged the advertisers and the promotion for the ads was based on
    their e-circulation.



    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Nov 14, 2009
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Doc

    Aardvark Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an optionto optout?

    On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:24:19 -0600, Gordon Burditt wrote:

    >>I keep getting these e-mail "newsletters" that are linked to a forum I
    >>joined. Couldn't care less about the contents, when I asked how to
    >>unsubscribe from them the response I got was there's no way to, they
    >>send it to everybody. Is this legal? The emails themselves are mildly
    >>annoying but I'm even more po'd about their "policy".

    >
    > They could have made accepting the emails a condition of joining the
    > forum. (Did they?) In that case, you can decide whether it's annoying
    > enough to make you want to unsubscribe from the forum.
    >
    > Another possibility is that you can keep complaining until they
    > unsubscribe you from the newsletter (and possibly the forum also). Do
    > this only if you're sure you never want to rejoin the forum.


    Did you make up the OP question yourself or did someone else make it? Was
    there actually an OP and you wrote everything yourself then put 'Re:' in
    the subject line to make it look like you're answering a question posted
    by someone nameless?

    There's no attribution line. If that's the case then you're plagiarising
    someone else's words and passing them off as your own.



    --
    Elmo McElroy: If I wanted cuisine, I'd have gone to Paris
    Felix DeSouza: You can still go to France. It's full of pricks. They hate
    Yanks too. Do you fancy a bite, or what?
    Elmo Mc Elroy: Yeah, all right.
     
    Aardvark, Nov 14, 2009
    #3
  4. Doc

    Bert Hyman Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    In news:
    (Gordon Burditt) wrote:

    > Another possibility is that you can keep complaining until they
    > unsubscribe you from the newsletter (and possibly the forum also).


    Possibly more effective is to report the spam via
    http://www.spamcop.net/.

    --
    Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN
     
    Bert Hyman, Nov 14, 2009
    #4
  5. Doc

    Mike Easter Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an optionto opt out?

    Bert Hyman wrote:

    > Possibly more effective is to report the spam via
    > http://www.spamcop.net/.


    If you break spamcop's rules, spamcop will cancel your spamcop reporter
    account.

    "Do not use SpamCop to report anything except spam."

    Solicited mail is not spam. 'Subscription' problems or policies are not
    spam.

    If the OP signed up and agreed to take the mail, then when the
    newsletter's admin gets the spamcop report/notification, the notified
    will complain to spamcop about the reporter...

    <SC>
    False spam reports are not tolerated.

    Users who file false reports will be banned from the SpamCop service
    and/or fined. However, in order to take action, we must see proof of
    wrongdoing.

    Please use the link(s) included in the report in question to dispute it.
    </SC>


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Nov 14, 2009
    #5
  6. Doc

    Doc Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option toopt out?

    On Nov 13, 7:24 pm, (Gordon Burditt) wrote:
    > >I keep getting these e-mail "newsletters" that are linked to a forum I
    > >joined. Couldn't care less about the contents, when I asked how to
    > >unsubscribe from them the response I got was there's no way to, they
    > >send it to everybody. Is this legal? The emails themselves are mildly
    > >annoying but I'm even more po'd about their "policy".

    >
    > They could have made accepting the emails a condition of joining
    > the forum.  (Did they?)  




    While it's possible they snuck it by me, I always say NO to anything
    like that.
     
    Doc, Nov 14, 2009
    #6
  7. Doc

    Doc Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option toopt out?

    On Nov 13, 7:54 pm, Deadrat <> wrote:

    > What law do you imagine they're breaking?



    Not being an attorney let alone one versed in internet issues, I
    couldn't say, though it seems somewhere I've gotten the impression
    someone can't keep e-mailing you if you tell them to cease. My
    impression is virtually every site I've ever encountered has some kind
    of opt out - "click here to unsubscribe" or the like.
     
    Doc, Nov 14, 2009
    #7
  8. Doc

    Mike Easter Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Doc wrote:

    > While it's possible they snuck it by me, I always say NO to anything
    > like that.


    Is there any good reason for you to keep the link to this webforum a
    secret?



    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Nov 14, 2009
    #8
  9. Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Aardvark wrote:

    > Did you make up the OP question yourself or did someone else make it?
    > Was there actually an OP and you wrote everything yourself then put
    > 'Re:' in the subject line to make it look like you're answering a
    > question posted by someone nameless?


    The original post is via Google Groups from a person signing as "Doc."
    You got GG blocked? <g>

    [cross-post to misc.legal trimmed]
    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Nov 14, 2009
    #9
  10. Doc

    chuckcar Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Doc <> wrote in
    news::

    > I keep getting these e-mail "newsletters" that are linked to a forum I
    > joined. Couldn't care less about the contents, when I asked how to
    > unsubscribe from them the response I got was there's no way to, they
    > send it to everybody. Is this legal? The emails themselves are mildly
    > annoying but I'm even more po'd about their "policy".
    >

    So filter them out and have each of their messages automatically resent
    back to them. Twice. Or more if you're adventurous.

    You like spam? I got your spam right here!

    And yes that is *exactly* what spam is.

    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Nov 14, 2009
    #10
  11. Doc

    Mike Easter Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Aardvark wrote:
    > Gordon Burditt wrote:


    > There's no attribution line.


    It is the GB personas 'policy' to not include/create any attribution
    lines whatsoever, regardless of the level or layers of quotes/citations
    he makes which need attribution. He has been called on the problem
    numerous times without the advice of others having any influence on his
    observing proper netiquette and practices.

    The only way you are going to stop the problem of seeing GB's messages
    fail to attribute is to kf him.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Nov 14, 2009
    #11
  12. Doc

    chuckcar Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Evan Platt <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 04:08:19 +0000 (UTC), chuckcar <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>And yes that is *exactly* what spam is.

    >
    > Ummm, no, it's not. Other people have grasped the concept and provided
    > a more reasonable answer. You completely failed.


    Wrong. Other people heard the word and misused it after it was correctly
    defined by people who knew what they were talking about. Just like my
    favorite misused word: multitask.

    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Nov 14, 2009
    #12
  13. Doc

    Doc Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option toopt out?

    On Nov 13, 9:37 pm, Deadrat <> wrote:

    > Well, think about it for a moment.  Do you suppose that email is a form of
    > speech?  The analogy to a public statement isn't exact, but would you want
    > the government indicting someone for sending (nonthreatening, nonharassing
    > and merely annoying) email?



    It becomes harassing when you don't want to receive it. If you're not
    aware, spammers have been sent to jail.
     
    Doc, Nov 14, 2009
    #13
  14. Doc

    Doc Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option toopt out?

    On Nov 13, 9:46 pm, "Mike Easter" <> wrote:
    > Doc wrote:
    > > While it's possible they snuck it by me, I always say NO to anything
    > > like that.

    >
    > Is there any good reason for you to keep the link to this webforum a
    > secret?



    http://www.thefacebookforum.net/forum.htm
     
    Doc, Nov 14, 2009
    #14
  15. Doc

    Aardvark Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an optionto opt out?

    On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:25:32 -0800, Mike Easter wrote:

    > Aardvark wrote:
    >> Gordon Burditt wrote:

    >
    >> There's no attribution line.

    >
    > It is the GB personas 'policy' to not include/create any attribution
    > lines whatsoever, regardless of the level or layers of quotes/citations
    > he makes which need attribution. He has been called on the problem
    > numerous times without the advice of others having any influence on his
    > observing proper netiquette and practices.
    >


    Has he ever offered an explanation for this behaviour, to your knowledge?

    > The only way you are going to stop the problem of seeing GB's messages
    > fail to attribute is to kf him.


    Nah. I can't recall ever having seen the nym before and so it'll probably
    be a long time before I see it again, so wasting time editing my kill
    file, no matter how quick a process it wouldbe, is pretty pointless.

    Thanks for the info, anyway.



    --
    Elmo McElroy: If I wanted cuisine, I'd have gone to Paris
    Felix DeSouza: You can still go to France. It's full of pricks. They hate
    Yanks too. Do you fancy a bite, or what?
    Elmo Mc Elroy: Yeah, all right.
     
    Aardvark, Nov 14, 2009
    #15
  16. Doc

    Mike Easter Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    posted to 24hshd only

    Aardvark wrote:
    > Mike Easter wrote:
    >> Aardvark wrote:
    >>> Gordon Burditt wrote:

    >>
    >>> There's no attribution line.

    >>
    >> It is the GB personas 'policy' to not include/create any attribution
    >> lines whatsoever, regardless of the level or layers of

    quotes/citations
    >> he makes which need attribution.


    > Has he ever offered an explanation for this behaviour, to your
    > knowledge?


    What you see here is about as lengthy as I've seen searching GG on a
    combo of his name and the attribution term.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Nov 14, 2009
    #16
  17. Doc

    Mike Easter Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Doc wrote:
    > "Mike Easter"
    >> Doc wrote:
    >>> While it's possible they snuck it by me, I always say NO to anything
    >>> like that.

    >>
    >> Is there any good reason for you to keep the link to this webforum a
    >> secret?

    >
    >
    > http://www.thefacebookforum.net/forum.htm


    I've looked over the registration policies. There is no place that you
    agree to accept being on any mailing list. That makes any newsletters
    mailed to the registrants for the forum spam and reportable as such.
    You do not have to unsub from some mailing list which you did not sub
    and you can report such mailing list mail as spam.

    http://www.mail-abuse.com/spam_def.html Definition of Spam - the
    recipient has not verifiably granted deliberate, explicit, and
    still-revocable permission for it to be sent;
    http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html Guidelines for
    proper mailing list management


    It is a big disadvantage to a mailing list server to have its mail
    reported as spam and risk being placed on an important blocklist such as
    spamcop's or others. Being blocklisted can result in the members of the
    list not receiving the mailing list mail which makes everyone who wants
    the newsletters and everyone who wants them to be receiving the
    newsletters very unhappy. The mailing list admins do not want their
    mail reported as spam.

    If you were a reg'd spamcop reporter, you could be reporting this
    mailing list as spam along with your other spam. The spamcop process is
    *not* designed to remove your address from a mailing list, but instead
    is designed to notify the sender and the sender's providers for
    mailserver and website that they have been reported as sourcing spam,
    but to /not/give them the reporter's address. The spamcop process also
    maintains a very dynamic blocklist of senders of spam, which numerous
    mail server spam filter administrators and personal spam filter users
    use to block/filter spam.



    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Nov 14, 2009
    #17
  18. Doc

    Mike Easter Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Doc wrote:

    > http://www.thefacebookforum.net/forum.htm


    Here's an item snipped from that forum relating to this issue

    <tfbf>
    http://snipr.com/t8e2n Why do I keep getting these Pet Society
    mails? -- You get them because it's our newsletter. In the Future
    you'll be able to subscribe or not, but at the moment you cannot. -- Are
    you saying you're going to keep sending them in perpetuity whether I
    want to get them or not? -- Yes, they're being sent to all the members
    at the moment. But during the next 2 weeks we'll create a group that
    will only receive that newsletter. We're sorry for the inconveniences
    this has caused.
    </tfbf>


    If you want to cut them some slack for abominable mailing list
    management, that's up to you. Personally, if it were me, I would
    consider that lack of respect for the address of a forum registrant to
    be so unacceptable, that as a spamcop reporter, I would report their
    newsletters, and they could be concerned about how to get off a
    blocklist they got on by being stupid and unfeeling and disrespectful.


    --
    Mike Easter
     
    Mike Easter, Nov 14, 2009
    #18
  19. Doc

    chuckcar Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Evan Platt <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:11:46 +0000 (UTC), chuckcar <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>Wrong. Other people heard the word and misused it after it was correctly
    >>defined by people who knew what they were talking about. Just like my
    >>favorite misused word: multitask.

    >
    > The OP likely agreed to receive the e-mails when he signed up for the
    > forum. Buried in the pages of agreements he said "I agree" to.
    >
    > By definition not bulk, and not unsolicited, and therefore not spam.
    >

    You *really* are a complete idiot aren't you? I was referring to *his*
    proposed emails being sent.


    --
    (setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
     
    chuckcar, Nov 14, 2009
    #19
  20. Doc

    XS11E Guest

    Re: Legal for a web forum to send newsletter w/o giving an option to opt out?

    Doc <> wrote:

    > I keep getting these e-mail "newsletters" that are linked to a
    > forum I joined. Couldn't care less about the contents, when I
    > asked how to unsubscribe from them the response I got was there's
    > no way to, they send it to everybody. Is this legal? The emails
    > themselves are mildly annoying but I'm even more po'd about their
    > "policy".


    Just un-join the forum if you don't want the newsletters.



    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
     
    XS11E, Nov 15, 2009
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. frank cameron

    send to option

    frank cameron, Jan 11, 2005, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    565
    frank cameron
    Jan 11, 2005
  2. spoonieP
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    502
    spoonieP
    Feb 19, 2004
  3. lcorrigan
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,307
    lcorrigan
    Sep 27, 2006
  4. PT
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    321
  5. Giuen
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,018
    Giuen
    Sep 12, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page