Learning C++ needs Assembly Language too?

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Kantoterong Alex, Jun 5, 2004.

  1. is there a need in Assembly lang. when you do in low level
    instruction in C++?
    Kantoterong Alex, Jun 5, 2004
    #1
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  2. >is there a need in Assembly lang. when you do in low level
    >instruction in C++?


    Depends on what you are doing.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 5, 2004
    #2
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  3. Kantoterong Alex

    Guest Guest

    Assembly level programming is a niche skill useful for developing device
    drivers, operating systems, and embedded systems. Within the next few years,
    the same will be said for C++.

    "Kantoterong Alex" <> wrote in message
    news:18b0b01c44b33$926b5720$...
    > is there a need in Assembly lang. when you do in low level
    > instruction in C++?
    Guest, Jun 5, 2004
    #3
  4. >Within the next few years,
    >the same will be said for C++.


    They said similar statements about cobol fifteen years ago.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 5, 2004
    #4
  5. And the 350 Mill tax package for Aus ATO is done in
    Scroll Down to see the answer









    COBOL
    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > >Within the next few years,
    > >the same will be said for C++.

    >
    > They said similar statements about cobol fifteen years ago.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Disillusioned_01, Jun 6, 2004
    #5
  6. I mean Australian Tax Office...
    To Americans tht would be another country...
    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > >Within the next few years,
    > >the same will be said for C++.

    >
    > They said similar statements about cobol fifteen years ago.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Disillusioned_01, Jun 6, 2004
    #6
  7. >I mean Australian Tax Office...
    >To Americans tht would be another country...


    You mean there are other countries other than the USA!!!

    lol!

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 6, 2004
    #7
  8. If it's not broken, don't try and fix it......

    On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:08:35 +1000, "Disillusioned_01" <>
    wrote:

    >And the 350 Mill tax package for Aus ATO is done in
    >Scroll Down to see the answer
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >COBOL
    >"The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    >news:eek:...
    >> >Within the next few years,
    >> >the same will be said for C++.

    >>
    >> They said similar statements about cobol fifteen years ago.
    >>
    >> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

    >



    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 6, 2004
    #8
  9. sorry I mean to say new Tax handling system for ATO is done in COBOL...
    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > If it's not broken, don't try and fix it......
    >
    > On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 10:08:35 +1000, "Disillusioned_01" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >And the 350 Mill tax package for Aus ATO is done in
    > >Scroll Down to see the answer
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >COBOL
    > >"The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    > >news:eek:...
    > >> >Within the next few years,
    > >> >the same will be said for C++.
    > >>
    > >> They said similar statements about cobol fifteen years ago.
    > >>
    > >> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

    > >

    >
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Disillusioned_01, Jun 6, 2004
    #9
  10. >sorry I mean to say new Tax handling system for ATO is done in COBOL...

    The choice of programming language, is a process constraint and should
    NOT deflect from the overall process of solving the business problem.
    Naturally, as a process constraint, this may have an impact on some of
    the non-functional requirements of the system, hence the importance of
    thorough systems analysis to identify such conflicts.

    Many new systems are still implemented in Cobol or other procedural
    languages. Typically the process constraints and/or non-functional
    requirements which dictated the choice of Cobol, would be based on
    decisions, such as cost, the availability of in-house expertise,
    cooperation with existing systems (external or internal), delivery
    timescale, etc, etc, etc.

    Any company which makes the choice of development tools based on what
    is the latest buzz word and puts this ahead of the business needs,
    deserves the poor quality 'solution' which is often the outcome.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 6, 2004
    #10
  11. In way you are right ,Business solutons Don't really care about cutting
    edge Tech.....
    I thought you would se the writing on the walls on this case ...

    Real argument is ATO want to implement sytem in cobol and later offshore
    the cobol work(Code cutting) There by retaining only the design work in AU
    and cutting cost.
    This doen't warrant a logical explanation you read in text book
    it is just cost cutting ....

    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >sorry I mean to say new Tax handling system for ATO is done in COBOL...

    >
    > The choice of programming language, is a process constraint and should
    > NOT deflect from the overall process of solving the business problem.
    > Naturally, as a process constraint, this may have an impact on some of
    > the non-functional requirements of the system, hence the importance of
    > thorough systems analysis to identify such conflicts.
    >
    > Many new systems are still implemented in Cobol or other procedural
    > languages. Typically the process constraints and/or non-functional
    > requirements which dictated the choice of Cobol, would be based on
    > decisions, such as cost, the availability of in-house expertise,
    > cooperation with existing systems (external or internal), delivery
    > timescale, etc, etc, etc.
    >
    > Any company which makes the choice of development tools based on what
    > is the latest buzz word and puts this ahead of the business needs,
    > deserves the poor quality 'solution' which is often the outcome.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Disillusioned_01, Jun 7, 2004
    #11
  12. Kantoterong Alex

    Moe Guest

    It seems like people often forget that the choice of
    language, in and unto itself, says little or nothing about
    whether any technology is current or not.

    A Computer languages, after all, is merely a lexical
    standard, not a technology.

    http://www.adtools.com/info/whitepaper/net.html

    >-----Original Message-----
    >And the 350 Mill tax package for Aus ATO is done in
    >Scroll Down to see the answer
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >COBOL
    >"The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in

    message
    >news:eek:...
    >> >Within the next few years,
    >> >the same will be said for C++.

    >>
    >> They said similar statements about cobol fifteen years

    ago.
    >>
    >> Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

    >
    >
    >.
    >
    Moe, Jun 7, 2004
    #12
  13. Kantoterong Alex

    Guest Guest

    And their prediction was correct ...

    And their prediction was correct. COBOL is now a niche programming language.
    In fact, it always was to begin with designed primarily for batch style
    business processing.

    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    > >Within the next few years,
    > >the same will be said for C++.

    >
    > They said similar statements about cobol fifteen years ago.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Guest, Jun 7, 2004
    #13
  14. Kantoterong Alex

    Guest Guest

    350 million dollars?

    350 million dollars? That is an ...exceptional project. A guess the
    taxpayers wish they had used an object oriented language and RAD design
    tool.

    "Disillusioned_01" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > And the 350 Mill tax package for Aus ATO is done in
    > Scroll Down to see the answer
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > COBOL
    > "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    > news:eek:...
    > > >Within the next few years,
    > > >the same will be said for C++.

    > >
    > > They said similar statements about cobol fifteen years ago.
    > >
    > > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3

    >
    >
    Guest, Jun 7, 2004
    #14
  15. >In way you are right ,Business solutons Don't really care about cutting
    >edge Tech.....


    Nor should they, software only exists to solve business problems.

    >I thought you would se the writing on the walls on this case ...


    I can't read.

    > Real argument is ATO want to implement sytem in cobol and later offshore
    >the cobol work(Code cutting) There by retaining only the design work in AU
    >and cutting cost.


    Even for coding in Cobol, the costs in terms of money and resources
    would be very small. The real cost, as always, are elsewhere.

    >This doen't warrant a logical explanation you read in text book
    >it is just cost cutting ....


    Everything is about getting the best value for money. However with IT,
    few companies have any ides how to get the best value out of IT. There
    are plenty of texts books which explain how to do this, but it
    requires total commitment for all sides of the business. However, it
    should not take too long before the benefits start to show through.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 7, 2004
    #15
  16. Re: 350 million dollars?

    >350 million dollars? That is an ...exceptional project. A guess the
    >taxpayers wish they had used an object oriented language and RAD design
    >tool.


    ...... Unless it would have cost 450 million.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 7, 2004
    #16
  17. Re: And their prediction was correct ...

    >And their prediction was correct. COBOL is now a niche programming language.
    >In fact, it always was to begin with designed primarily for batch style
    >business processing.


    ....and has evolved (still makes me laugh!).

    And has been available in OO flavor for many years, far more years
    than the dummies flagship, vb has been.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 7, 2004
    #17
  18. "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >In way you are right ,Business solutons Don't really care about cutting
    > >edge Tech.....

    >
    > Nor should they, software only exists to solve business problems.
    >
    > >I thought you would se the writing on the walls on this case ...

    >
    > I can't read.
    >
    > > Real argument is ATO want to implement sytem in cobol and later

    offshore
    > >the cobol work(Code cutting) There by retaining only the design work in

    AU
    > >and cutting cost.

    >
    > Even for coding in Cobol, the costs in terms of money and resources
    > would be very small. The real cost, as always, are elsewhere.


    No ... Average cost of development team may be upto 40%
    of a project . Youe view is too much simplisic in this case
    >
    > >This doen't warrant a logical explanation you read in text book
    > >it is just cost cutting ....

    >
    > Everything is about getting the best value for money. However with IT,
    > few companies have any ides how to get the best value out of IT. There
    > are plenty of texts books which explain how to do this, but it
    > requires total commitment for all sides of the business. However, it
    > should not take too long before the benefits start to show through.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Disillusioned_01, Jun 8, 2004
    #18
  19. >No ... Average cost of development team may be upto 40%
    >of a project . Youe view is too much simplisic in this case


    So, given your figure above - requirements analysis, conceptional &
    logical design, physical & implementation design, deployment
    (including deployment planning & testing), link testing, integration
    testing, system testing/planning, operations acceptance
    testing/planning; not to mention team selection, project management
    (often absorbed in the overall cost), risk analysis (normal part of
    PM). quality assurance (again often absorbed), external costs (such as
    building costs, insurance, etc, etc), required training for key
    personnel , hardware/software costs (licenses etc) should count for
    60% while 'coding' accounts for 40%, I think my view is hardly
    simplistic.

    Implementation (i.e. coding) should account for no more than 15%
    (ideally less than 10% these days) of the over project costs.

    You have simply highlighted why so many IT solutions fail to deliver
    cost affective solutions to the business.

    Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere, Jun 8, 2004
    #19
  20. I don't have any more strength to argue :) May be last 10 years I have
    worked in bad IT projects...(Including the one first introduced mobile
    technology to Aus)
    "The Poster Formerly Known as Kline Sphere" <.> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >No ... Average cost of development team may be upto 40%
    > >of a project . Youe view is too much simplisic in this case

    >
    > So, given your figure above - requirements analysis, conceptional &
    > logical design, physical & implementation design, deployment
    > (including deployment planning & testing), link testing, integration
    > testing, system testing/planning, operations acceptance
    > testing/planning; not to mention team selection, project management
    > (often absorbed in the overall cost), risk analysis (normal part of
    > PM). quality assurance (again often absorbed), external costs (such as
    > building costs, insurance, etc, etc), required training for key
    > personnel , hardware/software costs (licenses etc) should count for
    > 60% while 'coding' accounts for 40%, I think my view is hardly
    > simplistic.
    >
    > Implementation (i.e. coding) should account for no more than 15%
    > (ideally less than 10% these days) of the over project costs.
    >
    > You have simply highlighted why so many IT solutions fail to deliver
    > cost affective solutions to the business.
    >
    > Kline Sphere (Chalk) MCNGP #3
    Disillusioned_01, Jun 8, 2004
    #20
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