LCD TVs--disappointed

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by The Man Behind The Curtain, Jul 4, 2005.

  1. I went down to a retailer today armed with a DVD to check out the
    picture quality of the Sharp AQUOS LC-45GD6U 45" LCD TV, which I
    understand to be the top-rated LCD TV out there (not that there are that
    many). I had looked at this and other sets previously, but they were
    always playing their own high-def demo footage and I wanted to know how
    it would look playing an ordinary DVD.

    I was shocked. It looked awful! The DVD was a recent that had a very
    good picture, but when the camera panned there was constant "chatter" or
    flickering of heavily textured or patterned objects. Motion had a
    chatter to it, too. It was not smooth.

    The salesman first tried to blame the DVD player, but after hooking up a
    high end one the problems were all still there. Then we went to a
    plasma (50 inch Pioneer) and watched the same scenes. They looked
    *much* better. Chatter or flicker was largely reduced and there was
    more "depth" to the picture. This surprised me because the plasma set
    was cheaper (not by much) and I thought LCD was supposed to be the cat's
    meow, better than plasma. True to a salesman's form, first he tried
    talking up the LCD until he saw I was liking the plasma more, then he
    subtly (or maybe he thought it was subtle) began praising the plasma more.

    I'm puzzled now--not sure what to do. They say LCDs are the future, but
    I think the technology needs a few more years for refinement, based on
    what I saw. The plasma, meanwhile, despite a slightly larger picture,
    looked better. It still had flaws, but I could more readily live with them.

    Anyway, was just wondering if anyone else here had a similar reaction to
    seeing the two, and also how true the salesman's claim was that the DVD
    player will very much influence the quality of the picture. I thought
    that past a point a DVD player was a DVD player, but he claimed the chip
    inside affects flat panel picture drastically. Since I can't exactly
    try every DVD player out there till I find "the best," I wonder now how
    to go about choosing a DVD unit, what to look for in the description to
    tell me this machine is "all that." He told me the better ones are,
    obviously, more expensive, but just a high price alone doesn't convince
    me. I've paid lots for junk before.

    Ye Gods, this is complicated... They should teach a course in home
    theater selection and setup at the local community college.



    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
     
    The Man Behind The Curtain, Jul 4, 2005
    #1
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  2. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Java Jive Guest

    Wasn't impressed by that one either, but my Panasonic LCD TVs are fine.

    Who said the Sharp was the top-rated?

    "The Man Behind The Curtain" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I went down to a retailer today armed with a DVD to check out the
    > picture quality of the Sharp AQUOS LC-45GD6U 45" LCD TV, which I
    > understand to be the top-rated LCD TV out there
     
    Java Jive, Jul 4, 2005
    #2
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  3. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Kingkeld Guest

    It's really pretty simple. Go with the one you like the most,
    regardless of brand .
     
    Kingkeld, Jul 4, 2005
    #3
  4. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Bob Guest

    On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 07:34:25 GMT, The Man Behind The Curtain
    <> wrote:

    >I'm puzzled now--not sure what to do.


    Do more research. It does not surprise me that Sharp is crap.

    Dell is marketing LCD TVs.

    Does Viewsonic have anything to offer?

    Maybe you need to wait a while.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The possession of arms is the distinction
    between a free man and a slave."
    -- Andrew Fletcher, Discourse on Government (1695)
     
    Bob, Jul 4, 2005
    #4
  5. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Bob Guest

    On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:20:15 +0100, "Java Jive" <> wrote:

    >Wasn't impressed by that one either, but my Panasonic LCD TVs are fine.


    Panasonic is very high quality no matter what they make, as long as it
    isn't Best Buy discount crap.

    >Who said the Sharp was the top-rated?


    Sharp.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The ultimate result of shielding men from the
    effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
    -- Herbert Spencer
     
    Bob, Jul 4, 2005
    #5
  6. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Bob Guest

    On 4 Jul 2005 05:48:34 -0700, "Kingkeld" <>
    wrote:

    >It's really pretty simple. Go with the one you like the most,
    >regardless of brand .


    I disagree with that approach. It always pays to do the research. That
    way you keep the product longer.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The ultimate result of shielding men from the
    effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
    -- Herbert Spencer
     
    Bob, Jul 4, 2005
    #6
  7. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Bill Turner Guest

    The Man Behind The Curtain wrote:

    > They say LCDs are the future, but I think the technology needs a few
    > more years for refinement, based on what I saw. The plasma,
    > meanwhile, despite a slightly larger picture, looked better. It
    > still had flaws, but I could more readily live with them.

    _________________________________________________

    I had the opposite experience at the local Circuit City. I spent about
    an hour looking very carefully at everything on display and for me, the
    42" Panasonic LCD beat everything, both in picture quality and price.

    This is probably quite subjective. What is annoying flicker to one
    person may not even be observable to another. Go with what looks good
    to you.

    --
    BT
     
    Bill Turner, Jul 4, 2005
    #7
  8. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Poof Guest

    In article <>,
    The Man Behind The Curtain <> wrote:

    > I went down to a retailer today armed with a DVD to check out the
    > picture quality of the Sharp AQUOS LC-45GD6U 45" LCD TV, which I
    > understand to be the top-rated LCD TV out there (not that there are that
    > many). I had looked at this and other sets previously, but they were
    > always playing their own high-def demo footage and I wanted to know how
    > it would look playing an ordinary DVD.


    A lot of store display TV aren't calibrated correctly for the best
    picture, which might be partially affecting the quality.
     
    Poof, Jul 4, 2005
    #8
  9. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Bob Guest

    On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 15:33:38 GMT, Poof <> wrote:

    >A lot of store display TV aren't calibrated correctly for the best
    >picture, which might be partially affecting the quality.


    All TVs in a store have their color set far too high. Consumers think
    that the more color there is, the better the TV. Yet the best picture
    comes from low color intensity.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The ultimate result of shielding men from the
    effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
    -- Herbert Spencer
     
    Bob, Jul 4, 2005
    #9
  10. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Lookingglass Guest

    "The Man Behind The Curtain" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > (snip)
    > I was shocked. It looked awful! The DVD was a recent that had a very
    > good picture, but when the camera panned there was constant "chatter" or
    > flickering of heavily textured or patterned objects. Motion had a chatter
    > to it, too. It was not smooth.
    >
    > John
    >


    I've had my Sharp Aquos for a year now and I am very happy with it's
    performance. When I weighed all the "particulars" of an LCD to a CRT and
    Plasma, the Aquos was the one I chose... all my 100s of DVDs look great on
    this set... and the HD programming I view on it is stunning.

    A happy Aquos customer................................

    peace...............dave www.Shemakhan.com
     
    Lookingglass, Jul 4, 2005
    #10
  11. The Man Behind The Curtain

    S. Cargo Guest

    On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 07:34:25 GMT, The Man Behind The Curtain
    <> wrote:

    >I went down to a retailer today armed with a DVD to check out the
    >picture quality of the Sharp AQUOS LC-45GD6U 45" LCD TV, which I
    >understand to be the top-rated LCD TV out there (not that there are that
    >many). I had looked at this and other sets previously, but they were
    >always playing their own high-def demo footage and I wanted to know how
    >it would look playing an ordinary DVD.
    >
    >I was shocked. It looked awful! The DVD was a recent that had a very
    >good picture, but when the camera panned there was constant "chatter" or
    >flickering of heavily textured or patterned objects. Motion had a
    >chatter to it, too. It was not smooth.
    >
    >The salesman first tried to blame the DVD player, but after hooking up a
    >high end one the problems were all still there. Then we went to a
    >plasma (50 inch Pioneer) and watched the same scenes. They looked
    >*much* better. Chatter or flicker was largely reduced and there was
    >more "depth" to the picture. This surprised me because the plasma set
    >was cheaper (not by much) and I thought LCD was supposed to be the cat's
    >meow, better than plasma. True to a salesman's form, first he tried
    >talking up the LCD until he saw I was liking the plasma more, then he
    >subtly (or maybe he thought it was subtle) began praising the plasma more.
    >
    >I'm puzzled now--not sure what to do. They say LCDs are the future, but
    >I think the technology needs a few more years for refinement, based on
    >what I saw. The plasma, meanwhile, despite a slightly larger picture,
    >looked better. It still had flaws, but I could more readily live with them.
    >
    >Anyway, was just wondering if anyone else here had a similar reaction to
    >seeing the two, and also how true the salesman's claim was that the DVD
    >player will very much influence the quality of the picture. I thought
    >that past a point a DVD player was a DVD player, but he claimed the chip
    >inside affects flat panel picture drastically. Since I can't exactly
    >try every DVD player out there till I find "the best," I wonder now how
    >to go about choosing a DVD unit, what to look for in the description to
    >tell me this machine is "all that." He told me the better ones are,
    >obviously, more expensive, but just a high price alone doesn't convince
    >me. I've paid lots for junk before.
    >
    >Ye Gods, this is complicated... They should teach a course in home
    >theater selection and setup at the local community college.
    >
    >
    >
    >John



    Hi, John,

    For very detailed information on DVD players go to Secrets of Home
    Theater and High Fidelity at
    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/dvd-benchmark-part-1-video-9-2000.html.
    Many of the ratings will probably surprise you.

    I agree with you about the LCD TVs. They can't keep up with fast
    panning (at least the models that I viewed when I was TV hunting),
    which is especially annoying in action movies. Check out some front
    projection DLP TVs, or if you have the room, CRT front projectors. Go
    to http://www.curtpalme.com/ for a reputable used FP CRT dealer (and
    he has an excellent FAQ). You get a much more movie-like experince
    from the large screen (my screen is 4x8 feet), and they cost the same
    or much less than plasma screens.

    No one will agree on what is best, but you can get some very lively
    and often knowledgable discussion from http://www.avsforum.com/.

    Best of luck in your search for a new TV. Research, research,
    research... :)
     
    S. Cargo, Jul 4, 2005
    #11
  12. Java Jive wrote:
    > Wasn't impressed by that one either, but my Panasonic LCD TVs are fine.
    >
    > Who said the Sharp was the top-rated?


    Various web sites that evaluate plasma and DVD TVs claim Sharp is the
    best so far. I know that may be taken with a grain of salt, but what
    else do I have to go on? I can't try every TV in person. Most stores
    just have their TVs hooked up to canned hi-def loops of animals in the
    jungle and so on. It took them half an hour in the store to rig up a
    DVD player so I could watch my movie.




    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
     
    The Man Behind The Curtain, Jul 4, 2005
    #12
  13. Bill Turner wrote:
    > The Man Behind The Curtain wrote:
    >
    >
    >>They say LCDs are the future, but I think the technology needs a few
    >>more years for refinement, based on what I saw. The plasma,
    >>meanwhile, despite a slightly larger picture, looked better. It
    >>still had flaws, but I could more readily live with them.

    >
    > _________________________________________________
    >
    > I had the opposite experience at the local Circuit City. I spent about
    > an hour looking very carefully at everything on display and for me, the
    > 42" Panasonic LCD beat everything, both in picture quality and price.
    >
    > This is probably quite subjective. What is annoying flicker to one
    > person may not even be observable to another.


    Oh, it was not unobservable. It was EXTREMELY observable. If you can't
    see this, you need to go back to a 19" TV with rabbit ears, which ours,
    no kidding, played movies better than this LCD TV. Obviously the
    picture is smaller, but at least there weren't gigantic flicker lines
    and shimmer every time the camera panned.




    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
     
    The Man Behind The Curtain, Jul 4, 2005
    #13
  14. Poof wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > The Man Behind The Curtain <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I went down to a retailer today armed with a DVD to check out the
    >>picture quality of the Sharp AQUOS LC-45GD6U 45" LCD TV, which I
    >>understand to be the top-rated LCD TV out there (not that there are that
    >>many). I had looked at this and other sets previously, but they were
    >>always playing their own high-def demo footage and I wanted to know how
    >>it would look playing an ordinary DVD.

    >
    >
    > A lot of store display TV aren't calibrated correctly for the best
    > picture, which might be partially affecting the quality.


    We did about 20 mins of recalibrating, first the salesman, then me
    taking a crack at it. Nothing made it go away. We also tried several
    different DVD players, from the $89 special to high end ($899). All
    looked the same, as least as far as the shimmering went.



    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
     
    The Man Behind The Curtain, Jul 4, 2005
    #14
  15. Lookingglass wrote:

    > A happy Aquos customer................................


    Well, I'm not doubting they look great to you. The salesmen all
    couldn't understand my complaining and thought the set looked great too.
    Didn't impress me, though. For six grand it has to be better than that.

    I think it's very promising technology and in about four years may be
    consumer-ready. I don't think it is yet.

    Then again, I didn't buy a CD player till 1990, because I thought,
    despite all the raves in the audio magazines at the time about how CDs
    were "perfect sound," "completely realistic," that CD sound quality
    sucked. Later they got the bugs out, but I still won't buy a disc from
    the 80s unless it's been remastered, and even then you have to be
    careful. And now, guess what? The audiophiles are starting to agree
    with me: "Oh, digital sound was harsh and unnatural at first." They're
    remastering old DDDs with analog! Sony recently rereleased Glenn
    Gould's 1982 Bach Goldburg Variatons, one of the first CDs ever, with
    the analog tapes instead of those "perfect" digital ones, because
    they've now decided the analog sounded more natural. --Which is exactly
    what I was saying 25 years ago and being laughed at.



    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
     
    The Man Behind The Curtain, Jul 4, 2005
    #15
  16. The Man Behind The Curtain wrote:

    > Oh, it was not unobservable. It was EXTREMELY observable. If you can't
    > see this, you need to go back to a 19" TV with rabbit ears, which ours,
    > no kidding, played movies better than this LCD TV. Obviously the
    > picture is smaller, but at least there weren't gigantic flicker lines
    > and shimmer every time the camera panned.


    Oh, by the way, when I say "you" I mean the generic you, not YOU
    personally.... :)



    John

    --


    Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
     
    The Man Behind The Curtain, Jul 4, 2005
    #16
  17. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Bob Guest

    On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 17:58:25 GMT, The Man Behind The Curtain
    <> wrote:

    >but what else do I have to go on?


    You go on the overall reputation of the manufacturer in the general
    area you are interested.

    For example, Panasonic is Matsushita, one of the largest Japanese
    conglomerates, certainly much larger than Sharp. Panasonic invented
    VHS and perfected it. Even in the broadcast arena, where quality had
    to be the most important matter, VHS was Panasonic (component video
    was Sony, hands down).

    Sharp has the reputation of selling low-end consumer goods that tend
    to fall apart. Their microwaves were junk. Panasonic makes quality
    products that last a long time.

    OK, now that we have sized up the manufacturers, you can draw your own
    conclusions.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The ultimate result of shielding men from the
    effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
    -- Herbert Spencer
     
    Bob, Jul 4, 2005
    #17
  18. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Tarkus Guest

    On 7/4/2005 11:15:51 AM, Bob wrote:

    > Panasonic invented VHS and perfected it.


    JVC says hi.
    --
    "It's BTO. They're Canada's answer to ELP. Their big hit was TCB."

    Now playing: "Steely Dan - Reeling In The Years"
     
    Tarkus, Jul 4, 2005
    #18
  19. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Bob Guest

    On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:33:27 -0700, Tarkus <> wrote:

    >> Panasonic invented VHS and perfected it.


    >JVC says hi.


    More low end junk.


    --

    Map of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
    http://home.houston.rr.com/rkba/vrwc.html

    "The ultimate result of shielding men from the
    effects of folly is to fill the world with fools."
    -- Herbert Spencer
     
    Bob, Jul 4, 2005
    #19
  20. The Man Behind The Curtain

    Java Jive Guest

    Mmmm! Well, like you said, you can't try them *all* out for yourself.

    Although it's OT for the group, there's been quite frequent discussion on
    LCDs in uk.tech.digital-tv, and I've noticed a tendency for replies to
    posts like yours requesting info to be unhelpful for various reasons:
    1) There are some who seem to belong to anti-LCD secret society, who
    always post that LCDs are all crap and that CRT is the only technology to go
    for.
    2) There are some who take the diametrically opposite view.
    3) There are quite a few that just say that the particular type and make
    of TV they spent their money on is the best.

    FWIW, my view is to do what you started to do, only more so ...

    My advice on buying TVs always is: Take some DVDs (*1) around the stores
    and ask to see them played on the most promising looking sets. This will
    give
    direct comparisons both between those in the shop and with the current set
    at home, then make a decision on what the eyes (and the wallet) say.

    *1 Hire some if necessary - I suggest a good mix of 3 - 5 including at
    least:
    1) To check colour balance, one natural history and one sitcom or reality
    show (for human flesh tones indoors);
    2) For interlacing and movement, some action shots such as the latest
    blockbuster that takes the fancy, and some *interlaced* sport action.
    3) Any thing else commonly watched at home.
    4) As this seems to come up regularly with at least some makes of LCDs,
    something containing dimly lit scenes for judging contrast ratio, say
    "Stephen Hawking's Universe" or the opening of "All The President's Men".

    Also turn the set onto BBC News 24 or Sky News for how it shows poor quality
    material such as newsclips. This will show up much more clearly on
    expensive sets such as LCDs, and, although it's strictly the material's
    fault rather than the TV's, if you can't stand its output, that constitutes
    a valid reason not buy that set.

    "The Man Behind The Curtain" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Java Jive wrote:
    > > Wasn't impressed by that one either, but my Panasonic LCD TVs are fine.
    > >
    > > Who said the Sharp was the top-rated?

    >
    > Various web sites that evaluate plasma and DVD TVs claim Sharp is the
    > best so far. I know that may be taken with a grain of salt, but what
    > else do I have to go on? I can't try every TV in person. Most stores
    > just have their TVs hooked up to canned hi-def loops of animals in the
    > jungle and so on. It took them half an hour in the store to rig up a
    > DVD player so I could watch my movie.
     
    Java Jive, Jul 4, 2005
    #20
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