Kiwi high school issues shot heard around the open source world

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. Albany Senior High School is ignoring a deal worked out between the
    National Party government and Microsoft and claims it is saving a
    bundle.

    In their presentation they noted that when the school moves to new
    quarters later this year its server rack, designed to hold 48 servers,
    will instead need only four. The system also took less time to build
    than a Microsoft system would have, the school said.

    One thing that makes this a political story, down under, is that under
    the nation’s contract with Microsoft the software giant still gets paid
    for Albany’s Microsoft software even though it’s not being used.

    <http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5690>
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 25, 2010
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Gib Bogle Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > Albany Senior High School is ignoring a deal worked out between the
    > National Party government and Microsoft and claims it is saving a
    > bundle.
    >
    > In their presentation they noted that when the school moves to new
    > quarters later this year its server rack, designed to hold 48 servers,
    > will instead need only four. The system also took less time to build
    > than a Microsoft system would have, the school said.
    >
    > One thing that makes this a political story, down under, is that under
    > the nation’s contract with Microsoft the software giant still gets paid
    > for Albany’s Microsoft software even though it’s not being used.
    >
    > <http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5690>


    That "48 servers" sounds a bit ridiculous.
     
    Gib Bogle, Jan 26, 2010
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    AD. Guest

    On Jan 26, 1:09 pm, Gib Bogle <> wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > >     Albany Senior High School is ignoring a deal worked out between the
    > >     National Party government and Microsoft and claims it is saving a
    > >     bundle.

    >
    > >     In their presentation they noted that when the school moves to new
    > >     quarters later this year its server rack, designed to hold 48 servers,
    > >     will instead need only four. The system also took less time to build
    > >     than a Microsoft system would have, the school said.

    >
    > >     One thing that makes this a political story, down under, is that under
    > >     the nation’s contract with Microsoft the software giant still gets paid
    > >     for Albany’s Microsoft software even though it’s not being used.

    >
    > > <http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5690>

    >
    > That "48 servers" sounds a bit ridiculous.


    [the number of servers you actually need] usually bears little
    relation to [the number of servers your rack can hold].

    Not exactly the best example of good writing. They didn't need 48
    servers with either solution, so I have no idea why the fact that
    their rack could potentially hold 48 servers was considered relevant
    to the story.

    --
    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Jan 26, 2010
    #3
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:09:46 +1300, Gib Bogle wrote:

    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> Albany Senior High School is ignoring a deal worked out between the
    >> National Party government and Microsoft and claims it is saving a
    >> bundle.
    >>
    >> In their presentation they noted that when the school moves to new
    >> quarters later this year its server rack, designed to hold 48
    >> servers, will instead need only four. The system also took less
    >> time to build than a Microsoft system would have, the school said.
    >>
    >> One thing that makes this a political story, down under, is that
    >> under the nation’s contract with Microsoft the software giant still
    >> gets paid for Albany’s Microsoft software even though it’s not
    >> being used.
    >>
    >> <http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5690>

    >
    > That "48 servers" sounds a bit ridiculous.


    Actually, I thought that the school's server room was designed to hold 4 racks, each capable of holding
    48 servers.

    Presumably that would be 48 1U high servers per rack. Nothing ridiculous about those details -
    especially if you're talking about Microsoft infrastructure in comparison with *nix or Netware
    infrastructure.


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 26, 2010
    #4
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    peterwn Guest

    On Jan 26, 1:10 pm, "geoff" <> wrote:
    > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:


    >
    > Maybe that should read "4 to 8 servers" Lazzo.  Surely you should have
    > picked up on that piece of journalistic ineptitude, or did it so suit your
    > agenda that you overlooked  a basic bit of brain-parsing of the info ?
    >


    The server room (servers, PABX, Fibre optic modems etc) was sized up
    by the architects (presumably taking appropriate engineering advice)
    on the basis of practical needs for similar schools. It would have
    been sized to allow for later building development and for more
    intensive adoption of technology. The main point being made was that
    far fewer servers were required compared with a Microsoft solution and
    so the server room would appear to be unusually bare for a facility of
    that sort. There is vestiges of Microsoft, some Ministry mandated
    administration systems (eg pupil records) works only on Windows and
    one teacher objected to having Ubantu on his school issued laptop and
    the school let him have Windows.

    The Microsoft schools software contract is a negotiated lump sum to
    cover the state (including integrated AFAIK) school system. It has the
    advantage for schools that there are not going to be pesky software
    audits and for Microsoft that the incentive to walk is far less as
    there is no software licence savings at school level. Taking an
    impartial view, a lump sum approach does make operational sense even
    though it imposes a barrier to competition.

    There is a cost saving at pupil level - they do not need to shell out
    for Office software, even at 'educational' price. They can boot up
    with Ubantu (available from schoo)l and away they go.

    Look out for Microsoft lobbying the US government (with appropriate
    campaign contributions) to include Microsoft friendly (and Open Source
    unfriendly) terms in the forthcoming Free Trade Agreement.
     
    peterwn, Jan 26, 2010
    #5
  6. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Mary Hanna Guest

    On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:24:27 -0800 (PST), "AD." <> wrote:

    >On Jan 26, 1:09 pm, Gib Bogle <> wrote:
    >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >> >     Albany Senior High School is ignoring a deal worked out between the
    >> >     National Party government and Microsoft and claims it is saving a
    >> >     bundle.

    >>
    >> >     In their presentation they noted that when the school moves to new
    >> >     quarters later this year its server rack, designed to hold 48 servers,
    >> >     will instead need only four. The system also took less time to build
    >> >     than a Microsoft system would have, the school said.

    >>
    >> >     One thing that makes this a political story, down under, is that under
    >> >     the nation’s contract with Microsoft the software giant still gets paid
    >> >     for Albany’s Microsoft software even though it’s not being used.

    >>
    >> > <http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5690>

    >>
    >> That "48 servers" sounds a bit ridiculous.

    >
    >[the number of servers you actually need] usually bears little
    >relation to [the number of servers your rack can hold].
    >
    >Not exactly the best example of good writing. They didn't need 48
    >servers with either solution, so I have no idea why the fact that
    >their rack could potentially hold 48 servers was considered relevant
    >to the story.




    Yes Lunacy Lunix Bull Shit
     
    Mary Hanna, Jan 26, 2010
    #6
  7. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Mary Hanna Guest

    On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:22:43 +1300, "geoff" <> wrote:

    >AD. wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Not exactly the best example of good writing. They didn't need 48
    >> servers with either solution, so I have no idea why the fact that
    >> their rack could potentially hold 48 servers was considered relevant
    >> to the story.

    >
    >Not to mention a rather large rack....
    >
    >geoff
    >




    And how will these School kids get a Job when they don't have a Clue about MS
    office, it also seems that Open Office is now a dead duck and will no longer
    be supported.
     
    Mary Hanna, Jan 26, 2010
    #7
  8. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:16:39 -0800, peterwn wrote:

    > There is
    > vestiges of Microsoft, some Ministry mandated administration systems (eg
    > pupil records) works only on Windows and one teacher objected to having
    > Ubantu on his school issued laptop and the school let him have Windows.


    LOL. Was the teacher not able to cope with learning something new eh? ;)


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 26, 2010
    #8
  9. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:25:19 +1300, geoff wrote:

    > I think you'll find that the same number of servers would do a petty
    > much identical job. And I cannot imagine any more that 4 (or 8 at a
    > stretch) servers for a school of that size, and then only separate
    > servers to isolate the different functions phyically as a policy
    > decison, not necessarily technical..


    It is good technical design practise to separate databases from applications.

    That means there will be at least 4 servers - database, application, file&print, and email.

    And then there will be the virtual Windoze box sitting somewhere for the proprietary Winders-only
    education dept programs.


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 26, 2010
    #9
  10. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:12:36 +1300, Mary Hanna wrote:

    > And how will these School kids get a Job when they don't have a Clue
    > about MS office


    Easy - so long as they can read and write, and type a letter, and use a spreadsheet, etc. They don't
    specifically need to know MS Office in order to get a good job.


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 26, 2010
    #10
  11. In message <>, Sweetpea wrote:

    > It is good technical design practise to separate databases from
    > applications.


    Only under Dimdows.

    > That means there will be at least 4 servers - database, application,
    > file&print, and email.


    Linux servers regularly fulfil all these roles simultaneously and more.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 26, 2010
    #11
  12. In message <>, Sweetpea wrote:

    > On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:12:36 +1300, Mary Hanna wrote:
    >
    >> And how will these School kids get a Job when they don't have a Clue
    >> about MS office


    Which version? Supposing somebody learned Office 2007--would that prepare
    them for a business world which was still clinging to Office 2003
    <http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2010/01/12/office_2007_migration_problems/>?
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 26, 2010
    #12
  13. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Sweetpea Guest

    On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:06:27 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    >> That means there will be at least 4 servers - database, application,
    >> file&print, and email.

    >
    > Linux servers regularly fulfil all these roles simultaneously and more.


    They shouldn't, and don't for all enterprise applications that I am aware of - even the ones with
    databases hosted on Linux and on Oracle 9, 10, & 11g.


    --
    "Filtering the Internet is like trying to boil the ocean"
     
    Sweetpea, Jan 26, 2010
    #13
  14. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Sweetpea wrote:
    >
    >> It is good technical design practise to separate databases from
    >> applications.

    >
    > Only under Dimdows.
    >

    Even on Linux.
    >
    >> That means there will be at least 4 servers - database,
    >> application, file&print, and email.

    >
    > Linux servers regularly fulfil all these roles simultaneously and
    > more.
    >

    Not in any decent design they don't.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jan 26, 2010
    #14
  15. In message <hjlak2$l9a$>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

    > In their presentation they noted that when the school moves to new
    > quarters later this year its server rack, designed to hold 48 servers,
    > will instead need only four. The system also took less time to build
    > than a Microsoft system would have, the school said.
    >
    > <http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5690>


    “... has slashed its server requirements by a factor of almost 50 ...â€
    <http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/tech/F33740EE2AE033E4CC2576B60077FB5B>
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 26, 2010
    #15
  16. In message <>, Sweetpea wrote:

    > On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:06:27 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >
    >>> That means there will be at least 4 servers - database, application,
    >>> file&print, and email.

    >>
    >> Linux servers regularly fulfil all these roles simultaneously and more.

    >
    > They shouldn't ...


    Small outfits can’t afford to buy a new server for every new function.

    And for the ones that do—guess what they’re doing nowadays? That’s right—
    jumping on the virtualization bandwagon, consolidating all that
    proliferation of servers down to just a few.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 26, 2010
    #16
  17. <http://cio.co.nz/cio.nsf/news/5F2023B9281FC8A8CC2576B60077370E>:

    While Koha was paid to make those changes, the resulting code will be
    freely available to all New Zealand schools -- an approach Brennan
    contrasted with Windows software, where modifications are typically
    charged separately for each school.

    How’s that for a gravy train for Windows consultants?

    And just to clarify the server-reduction issue:

    In 2010, Albany SHS will move into new purpose-built premises, which
    include a dedicated server room. Brennan noted that the architects
    designed the space based on standard New Zealand school requirements,
    including four racks each capable of holding 48 servers for its main
    systems. The main infrastructure only requires four servers, suggesting
    an almost 50-fold saving on hardware requirements.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Jan 26, 2010
    #17
  18. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Enkidu Guest

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    > In message <>, Sweetpea wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:06:27 +1300, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
    >>
    >>>> That means there will be at least 4 servers - database,
    >>>> application, file&print, and email.
    >>> Linux servers regularly fulfil all these roles simultaneously and
    >>> more.

    >> They shouldn't ...

    >
    > Small outfits can’t afford to buy a new server for every new
    > function.
    >
    > And for the ones that do—guess what they’re doing nowadays? That’s
    > right— jumping on the virtualization bandwagon, consolidating all
    > that proliferation of servers down to just a few.
    >

    You don't virtualize database servers if you know what you are doing.

    Cheers,

    Cliff

    --

    The Internet is interesting in that although the nicknames may change,
    the same old personalities show through.
     
    Enkidu, Jan 26, 2010
    #18
  19. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Simon Guest

    On Jan 26, 4:50 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:

    > “... has slashed its server requirements by a factor of almost 50 ...”
    > <http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/tech/F33740EE2AE033E4CC2576B60077...>


    You need to think about the relationship between cause and effect.
    These types of projects provide an ideal opportunity to consolidate
    services.
     
    Simon, Jan 26, 2010
    #19
  20. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Simon Guest

    On Jan 26, 4:06 pm, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <l...@geek-
    central.gen.new_zealand> wrote:
    > In message <>, Sweetpea wrote:
    >
    > > It is good technical design practise to separate databases from
    > > applications.

    >
    > Only under Dimdows.
    >
    > > That means there will be at least 4 servers - database, application,
    > > file&print, and email.

    >
    > Linux servers regularly fulfil all these roles simultaneously and more.


    So does SBS for small businesses. What's your point?
     
    Simon, Jan 26, 2010
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. voodoo

    Anyone heard of a new virus going around?

    voodoo, Sep 20, 2003, in forum: Computer Support
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    437
    Vivian from Pentecost Lane
    Sep 20, 2003
  2. Replies:
    4
    Views:
    1,148
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=F4g=EAr?=
    Aug 13, 2007
  3. Bret

    Open source banned from school

    Bret, Jul 8, 2005, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    194
    Views:
    2,772
    Bling-Bling
    Jul 18, 2005
  4. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Open-Source Good, Closed-Source Bad

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 16, 2005, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    513
    Gordon
    Oct 16, 2005
  5. Lawrence D'Oliveiro

    Warrington School Goes Open-Source

    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Oct 14, 2008, in forum: NZ Computing
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    352
    impossible
    Oct 17, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page