Killer blow for x64 compatability...

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Mark Gillespie, Oct 12, 2006.

  1. I had great hopes that x64 would progress from a niche OS, with Vista x64,
    but Microsoft have killed that..

    Why?

    the "Works with Vista" logo..

    There is now much less pressure on hardware manufacturers to produce x64
    drivers, to get the "Certified For Vista" logo, they can now just get it
    working with 32bit Vista, and slap a "Works With Vista" sticker on the box.

    Poor show Microsoft...
    Mark Gillespie, Oct 12, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mark Gillespie

    Zapper Guest

    When did that change? The VERY vocal supporters of MSFT's driver signing
    requirement kept saying that part of theVista logo was x64 drivers...
    Though that would not help any of us who bougth products that are not
    currently being sold. Audigy 2ZS, older video cards, etc.


    "Mark Gillespie" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    >I had great hopes that x64 would progress from a niche OS, with Vista x64,
    >but Microsoft have killed that..
    >
    > Why?
    >
    > the "Works with Vista" logo..
    >
    > There is now much less pressure on hardware manufacturers to produce x64
    > drivers, to get the "Certified For Vista" logo, they can now just get it
    > working with 32bit Vista, and slap a "Works With Vista" sticker on the
    > box.
    >
    > Poor show Microsoft...
    Zapper, Oct 12, 2006
    #2
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  3. Mark Gillespie

    Aaron Kelley Guest

    Yeah, I was also under the impression that x64 support was required for the
    Vista logo program.

    - Aaron

    "Zapper" <losergroups@microsoft..com> wrote in message
    news:edu$...
    > When did that change? The VERY vocal supporters of MSFT's driver signing
    > requirement kept saying that part of theVista logo was x64 drivers...
    > Though that would not help any of us who bougth products that are not
    > currently being sold. Audigy 2ZS, older video cards, etc.
    >
    >
    > "Mark Gillespie" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:...
    >>I had great hopes that x64 would progress from a niche OS, with Vista x64,
    >>but Microsoft have killed that..
    >>
    >> Why?
    >>
    >> the "Works with Vista" logo..
    >>
    >> There is now much less pressure on hardware manufacturers to produce x64
    >> drivers, to get the "Certified For Vista" logo, they can now just get it
    >> working with 32bit Vista, and slap a "Works With Vista" sticker on the
    >> box.
    >>
    >> Poor show Microsoft...

    >
    Aaron Kelley, Oct 13, 2006
    #3
  4. It is. I think it is x86 signing that is not required. Perhaps the OP read
    things backwards.

    "Aaron Kelley" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Yeah, I was also under the impression that x64 support was required for
    > the Vista logo program.
    >
    > - Aaron
    >
    > "Zapper" <losergroups@microsoft..com> wrote in message
    > news:edu$...
    >> When did that change? The VERY vocal supporters of MSFT's driver signing
    >> requirement kept saying that part of theVista logo was x64 drivers...
    >> Though that would not help any of us who bougth products that are not
    >> currently being sold. Audigy 2ZS, older video cards, etc.
    >>
    >>
    >> "Mark Gillespie" <> wrote in message
    >> news:eek:...
    >>>I had great hopes that x64 would progress from a niche OS, with Vista
    >>>x64, but Microsoft have killed that..
    >>>
    >>> Why?
    >>>
    >>> the "Works with Vista" logo..
    >>>
    >>> There is now much less pressure on hardware manufacturers to produce x64
    >>> drivers, to get the "Certified For Vista" logo, they can now just get it
    >>> working with 32bit Vista, and slap a "Works With Vista" sticker on the
    >>> box.
    >>>
    >>> Poor show Microsoft...

    >>

    >
    >
    Colin Barnhorst, Oct 13, 2006
    #4
  5. Mark Gillespie

    Theo Guest

    I think you're right too, Colin. I found the following on MSDN:

    New for Device Installation

    Microsoft Windows Vista requires that a system administrator
    authorize the installation of an unsigned driver package.
    This authorization requires administrator input each time an
    unsigned driver is installed, which adversely affects the
    productivity of developers and testers. To eliminate this
    authorization step, the development process should include
    signing driver packages with a code-signing certificate that
    is created by using Microsoft Authenticode. In addition,
    default kernel-mode code signing policy on x64-based
    versions of Windows Vista requires that kernel-mode drivers
    have a digital signature in order to load. For information
    about how to sign drivers for public release and how to sign
    drivers during development and test, see Driver Signing
    (Windows Vista).


    © 2006 Microsoft Corporation
    Built on August 25, 2006

    at:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._d4835bf6-c5fc-4c17-943d-70f716f006dd.xml.asp

    Perhaps those that started the rumor could clarify their claims.


    Colin Barnhorst wrote:
    > It is. I think it is x86 signing that is not required. Perhaps the OP read
    > things backwards.
    >
    > "Aaron Kelley" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Yeah, I was also under the impression that x64 support was required for
    >> the Vista logo program.
    >>
    >> - Aaron
    >>
    >> "Zapper" <losergroups@microsoft..com> wrote in message
    >> news:edu$...
    >>> When did that change? The VERY vocal supporters of MSFT's driver signing
    >>> requirement kept saying that part of theVista logo was x64 drivers...
    >>> Though that would not help any of us who bougth products that are not
    >>> currently being sold. Audigy 2ZS, older video cards, etc.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "Mark Gillespie" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:eek:...
    >>>> I had great hopes that x64 would progress from a niche OS, with Vista
    >>>> x64, but Microsoft have killed that..
    >>>>
    >>>> Why?
    >>>>
    >>>> the "Works with Vista" logo..
    >>>>
    >>>> There is now much less pressure on hardware manufacturers to produce x64
    >>>> drivers, to get the "Certified For Vista" logo, they can now just get it
    >>>> working with 32bit Vista, and slap a "Works With Vista" sticker on the
    >>>> box.
    >>>>
    >>>> Poor show Microsoft...

    >>

    >
    >
    Theo, Oct 13, 2006
    #5
  6. Mark Gillespie

    Theo Guest

    At:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._a93c0b85-162d-4389-a5ed-ad9109b70c04.xml.asp


    Driver Signatures and PnP Device Installation (Windows Vista)
    [This is preliminary documentation and subject to change.]

    Plug and Play (PnP) device installation on Windows Vista
    uses a digital signature of a driver package catalog file to
    verify the identity of the publisher of the driver package
    and to determine whether the driver package was altered
    after it was published. PnP device installation on Windows
    Vista supports the following types of digital signatures for
    driver packages:

    * Signature types that can be used for drivers that are
    released to the general public.
    o Signatures generated by a Windows signing
    authority for inbox drivers, the Windows Hardware Quality
    Lab (WHQL) Logo Program, and Windows Sustained Engineering
    updates.
    o Signatures that are not generated by a Windows
    signing authority, but that do comply with Windows Vista
    kernel-mode code signing policy and PnP driver signing
    requirements for x64-based versions of Windows Vista. This
    type of signature is generated by using a Software Publisher
    Certificate (SPC) that is obtained from a third-party CA
    that is authorized by Microsoft to issue such certificates.
    o Signatures that are not generated by a Windows
    signing authority, but that do comply with PnP driver
    signing requirements. This type of signature can be used to
    sign kernel-mode drivers on 32-bit versions of Windows
    Vista. This type of signature is generated by using a
    commercial release certificate that is obtained from CA that
    is a member of the Microsoft Root Certificate Program.

    * Signatures for deploying drivers only within
    corporate network environments, which are created by a
    digital certificate that is created and managed by an
    Enterprise CA. For information about creating an Enterprise
    CA, see the "Code Signing Best Practices" white paper on the
    Driver Signing Requirements for Windows Web site and the
    readme selfsign_readme.htm, which is located in the
    bin\selfsign directory of the WDK..
    * Signature types that can be used in-house during the
    development and test of drivers:
    o Signatures generated by the WHQL test signature
    program
    o Signatures generated by a MakeCert test certificate
    o Signatures created by a commercial test
    certificate that is obtained from CA that is a member of the
    Microsoft Root Certificate Program
    o Signatures generated by Enterprise CA test
    certificate

    Windows Vista includes the following features that are
    related to support for signatures that are generated by
    third parties:

    * Administrators can control which driver publishers
    Windows Vista trusts. Windows Vista installs drivers from
    trusted publishers without prompting. It never installs
    drivers from publishers that the administrator has chosen
    not to trust.
    * Driver-signing policy is always set to Warn,
    eliminating the Block and Ignore options that were available
    in earlier versions of Windows. An administrator must always
    authorize the installation of unsigned drivers or a driver
    from publisher that is not yet trusted.
    * All device setup classes are treated equally.
    Certclas.inf does not exist in Windows Vista.

    * When there are several compatible drivers to choose
    from, the ranking algorithm that Windows Vista uses to pick
    the best driver includes drivers with third-party
    signatures. By default, Microsoft signatures take priority
    over third-party signatures, but IT departments can
    configure them to be equivalent.

    Before installing a driver, Windows analyzes the driver’s
    signature. If a signature is present, Windows uses the
    signature to verify the driver package files. Based on the
    results of this analysis, Windows categorizes the driver
    signature, as follows:

    * Signed by a Windows signing authority. These drivers
    are either in-box, signed for release by WHQL, or signed by
    Windows Sustained Engineering.
    * Signed by a trusted publisher. These drivers have
    been signed by a third party, and user has explicitly chosen
    to always trust signed drivers from this publisher.
    * Signed by an untrusted publisher. These drivers have
    been signed by a third party, and the user has explicitly
    chosen to never trust drivers from this publisher.
    * Signed by a publisher of unknown trust. These drivers
    have been signed by a third party, and the user has not
    indicated whether to trust this publisher.
    * Altered. These drivers are signed, but Windows has
    detected that at least one file in the driver package has
    been altered after the package was signed.
    * Unsigned. These drivers are either unsigned or have
    an invalid signature. Valid signatures must be created with
    a certificate that was issued by a trusted CA.

    Before Windows installs a driver on a computer the first
    time, it preinstalls, or stages, the driver in the driver
    store. To preinstall a driver, Windows copies the driver
    package to the driver store and adds a copy of the INF file
    to the system INF directory. Windows subsequently will
    silently install a driver for a matching device by using the
    copy of the driver package in the driver store. User
    interaction is not required when Windows installs a
    preinstalled driver on a device.

    Whether Windows will preinstall a driver package depends on
    the signature category, user credentials, and user
    interaction, as follows:

    * Signed by a Windows signing authority or a trusted
    publisher. Windows silently preinstalls the driver for
    system administrators and standard users (users without
    administrator credentials). Windows does not display user
    dialog boxes.
    * Signed by an untrusted publisher. Windows does not
    preinstall the driver package.
    * Signed by a publisher of unknown trust. Windows
    displays a dialog box to a system administrator that informs
    the administrator that the publisher is not yet trusted. The
    dialog box provides the administrator the option to install
    the driver and the option to always trust the publisher.
    Windows does not display a dialog box to a standard user and
    does not preinstall the driver for the standard user.
    * Altered or unsigned. Windows displays a dialog box
    that appropriately warns a system administrator that the
    signature could not be verified. The dialog box provides the
    administrator the option to install or not to install the
    driver. Windows does not display a dialog box to a standard
    user and does not preinstall the driver for a standard user.


    © 2006 Microsoft Corporation
    Built on August 25, 2006
    Build machine: CAPEBUILD



    Mark Gillespie wrote:
    > I had great hopes that x64 would progress from a niche OS, with Vista
    > x64, but Microsoft have killed that..
    >
    > Why?
    >
    > the "Works with Vista" logo..
    >
    > There is now much less pressure on hardware manufacturers to produce x64
    > drivers, to get the "Certified For Vista" logo, they can now just get it
    > working with 32bit Vista, and slap a "Works With Vista" sticker on the box.
    >
    > Poor show Microsoft...
    Theo, Oct 13, 2006
    #6
  7. Mark Gillespie

    Theo Guest

    You can read more about drivers at:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d..._049c46fa-3f05-486f-81ab-f9a1cf361b9a.xml.asp


    Windows Driver Kit: Device Installation
    Device Installation Overview

    Before reading this section, see Providing a Driver Package
    for an introduction to the concepts and requirements you'll
    need to know concerning device installation.

    Setup works with other system-supplied components and with
    vendor-supplied components to install devices. Setup
    installs devices when the system restarts and at any time
    after a system restart when a user plugs in a Plug and Play
    (PnP) device (or manually installs a non-PnP device).

    In support of PnP, Setup proceeds with device installation
    based on the devices in the system, rather than structuring
    installation around the drivers. For example, rather than
    loading a set of drivers and having those drivers detect the
    devices that they support, Setup determines the devices that
    are present in the system and loads and calls the drivers
    for each device. Drivers such as the ACPI driver and other
    PnP bus drivers help Setup determine which devices are present.

    This section includes:

    Driver Install Frameworks (DIFx)

    Device Installation Components

    Device Installation Files

    Sample Device Installation Files

    Device Installation Types

    System Setup Phases

    Example PnP Device Installation

    How Setup Selects Drivers

    How Setup Uses Digital Signatures

    Driver Signing (Windows Vista)

    Device Installations Requiring a Reboot

    Installing Devices on 64-Bit Systems

    Registry Keys for Drivers

    RunOnce Registry Entries

    Creating Directories for Driver Distribution Media


    © 2006 Microsoft Corporation
    Built on August 25, 2006


    Mark Gillespie wrote:
    > I had great hopes that x64 would progress from a niche OS, with Vista
    > x64, but Microsoft have killed that..
    >
    > Why?
    >
    > the "Works with Vista" logo..
    >
    > There is now much less pressure on hardware manufacturers to produce x64
    > drivers, to get the "Certified For Vista" logo, they can now just get it
    > working with 32bit Vista, and slap a "Works With Vista" sticker on the box.
    >
    > Poor show Microsoft...
    Theo, Oct 13, 2006
    #7
  8. On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 17:25:24 +0100, Colin Barnhorst <colinbarharst
    <@msn.com>> wrote:

    > It is. I think it is x86 signing that is not required. Perhaps the OP
    > read
    > things backwards.
    >


    No there is still the "Certified For Vista" program which requires
    certification and x64 drivers, but there is now a "Works With Vista"
    badge, so manufacturers being lazy will simply use that instead of going
    to both of getting drivers x64 and certified.
    Mark Gillespie, Oct 13, 2006
    #8
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