Keyloggers?

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by The Nerdy Duo, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. Like the rest of us out here, I spend some time as an IT tech when I
    feel generous or money is tight. Lately, I've been teching for my
    mother in law, and somebody in her office is messing with her CPUs,
    uninstalling programs, deleting system files. I hate installing the
    same software over and over again. This has made a 6 hour reinstall
    into a 3 week ordeal where I have to redo the computer on a daily/
    every other day basis. I have my suspicions, but I need to prove it.
    So, I want a keylogger that I don't have to fork over my green for.
    The more it monitors in this case, the better. Generally, I'm anti-
    monitoring in the workplace, but, I can't think of a better way to
    catch Ms. subversive secretary. Thoughts and ideas appreciated.
     
    The Nerdy Duo, Jun 5, 2007
    #1
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  2. The Nerdy Duo

    Sebastian G. Guest

    The Nerdy Duo wrote:

    > Lately, I've been teching for my
    > mother in law, and somebody in her office is messing with her CPUs,
    > uninstalling programs, deleting system files. I hate installing the
    > same software over and over again. This has made a 6 hour reinstall
    > into a 3 week ordeal where I have to redo the computer on a daily/
    > every other day basis. I have my suspicions, but I need to prove it.



    I also have my suspicions, and the evidence is blatantly obvious: You're
    giving someone administrative rights who shouldn't have any. How else could
    it be that system files are getting deleted?

    > So, I want a keylogger that I don't have to fork over my green for.


    Huh? How should a keylogger provide evidence that you're an incompetent
    administrator? (Other than by the fact that you even draw such conclusions...)

    > The more it monitors in this case, the better. Generally, I'm anti-
    > monitoring in the workplace, but, I can't think of a better way to
    > catch Ms. subversive secretary. Thoughts and ideas appreciated.


    Monitoring without sufficient reason (read: suspicion of criminal activity)
    is strictly illegal.
     
    Sebastian G., Jun 5, 2007
    #2
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  3. On 2007-06-05, The Nerdy Duo <> wrotey all complicatey:
    > Like the rest of us out here, I spend some time as an IT tech when I
    > feel generous or money is tight. Lately, I've been teching for my
    > mother in law, and somebody in her office is messing with her CPUs,
    > uninstalling programs, deleting system files


    What have they done ? Attacked the CPUs with a soldering iron ? Put oily
    fingerprints all over them ? Do you even know what a CPU is, Mr. 'IT' ?


    >. I hate installing the
    > same software over and over again.


    It's called 'Microsoft'. Get used to it.

    >This has made a 6 hour reinstall into a 3 week ordeal where I have to redo
    >the computer on a daily/ every other day basis.


    See above.

    >I have my suspicions, but I need to prove it. So, I want a keylogger that
    >I don't have to fork over my green for. The more it monitors in this case,
    >the better. Generally, I'm anti- monitoring in the workplace, but, I can't
    >think of a better way to catch Ms. subversive secretary. Thoughts and ideas
    >appreciated.


    No forking green necessary. Slip the secretary one and realise that it's
    probably your clueless mother-in-law thinking she has to re-install Windows
    every time she wants to use it. Which is not too far from the truth.

    Regards,

    BH.
     
    Benson Hedges, Jun 5, 2007
    #3
  4. The Nerdy Duo

    }{ Man Guest

    Well, I don't know if this will help you, but if I were you I would try
    to find keylogger, that I need here: 'Keylogger.org - Independent
    testing, rating and review of monitoring software'
    (http://www.keylogger.org), as this is the most informative site about
    keyloggers that I know.... I suppose its comparison table will help you


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    View this thread: http://www.wirelessforums.org/showthread.php?t=22805
    http://www.wirelessforums.org
     
    }{ Man, Jun 6, 2007
    #4
  5. On Jun 5, 5:42 pm, "Sebastian G." <> wrote:
    > The Nerdy Duo wrote:
    > > Lately, I've been teching for my
    > > mother in law, and somebody in her office is messing with her CPUs,
    > > uninstalling programs, deleting system files. I hate installing the
    > > same software over and over again. This has made a 6 hour reinstall
    > > into a 3 week ordeal where I have to redo the computer on a daily/
    > > every other day basis. I have my suspicions, but I need to prove it.

    >
    > I also have my suspicions, and the evidence is blatantly obvious: You're
    > giving someone administrative rights who shouldn't have any. How else could
    > it be that system files are getting deleted?
    >
    > > So, I want a keylogger that I don't have to fork over my green for.

    >
    > Huh? How should a keylogger provide evidence that you're an incompetent
    > administrator? (Other than by the fact that you even draw such conclusions...)
    >
    > > The more it monitors in this case, the better. Generally, I'm anti-
    > > monitoring in the workplace, but, I can't think of a better way to
    > > catch Ms. subversive secretary. Thoughts and ideas appreciated.

    >
    > Monitoring without sufficient reason (read: suspicion of criminal activity)
    > is strictly illegal.


    I did use the wrong word. I wanted something that would do screen
    captures and log the times of deletions.

    As far as the legality goes: In what country? If monitoring in the
    workplace were illegal here, then it wouldn't be done on such a
    widespread basis.

    The secretary only has a user account, but the answer to what is
    really wrong is this: Mom in law decided to share her entire c drive.
    Thanks mom.

    I am indeed an incompetant administrator in the work place. Why?
    Because I do it for free, and don't give it anywhere near my full
    attention, so that somebody who does do this to support themselves
    looks better than what I do, and might look worth the money. So, when
    you're collecting a paycheck for IT, you be glad that the people who
    do it for free suck at it. Or else no one would want to pay you for
    your smarmy attitude. .
     
    The Nerdy Duo, Jun 6, 2007
    #5
  6. The Nerdy Duo

    Sebastian G. Guest

    The Nerdy Duo wrote:


    > I did use the wrong word. I wanted something that would do screen
    > captures



    This is monitoring.

    > and log the times of deletions.



    This is normal C2 auditing. Why don't you use the auditing facilities that
    Windows provides?

    > As far as the legality goes: In what country? If monitoring in the
    > workplace were illegal here, then it wouldn't be done on such a
    > widespread basis.



    Monitoring *generally* is illegal. You may automatically capture and process
    data to a reasonable extend, but anything that goes too far (read: violates
    the privacy of the employees) is strictly illegal. I'd say in US much more
    than in GER.

    > The secretary only has a user account, but the answer to what is
    > really wrong is this: Mom in law decided to share her entire c drive.
    > Thanks mom.



    Maybe I should point it out clearer:
    *YOU* are the one who did something wrong. *You* gave the administrative
    rights so that they could delete system files, share the entire drive with
    write access, and generally **** up the system. Without *you* giving them
    admin rights, none of these problems could have ever occured.

    So instead of trying to diagnose the symptoms, damn fix and secure the
    system such that such things can't happen any more.
     
    Sebastian G., Jun 6, 2007
    #6
  7. The Nerdy Duo

    Moe Trin Guest

    On Tue, 05 Jun 2007, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.computer.security, in article
    <>, The Nerdy Duo wrote:

    >Lately, I've been teching for my mother in law, and somebody in her
    >office is messing with her CPUs, uninstalling programs, deleting system
    >files.


    "messing with her CPUs" means what exactly? As for deleting system
    files, shoot the 1d10t who has given "adistrator" rights to everyone
    because they don't know how to install the software correctly such that
    elevated privilege is not needed. Then get someone who has some knowledge
    of operating systems to set the computer correctly.

    >I hate installing the same software over and over again. This has made a
    >6 hour reinstall into a 3 week ordeal where I have to redo the computer
    >on a daily/ every other day basis.


    Make sure that the "data" and operating system/applications are on
    separate drives (D: for data, C: for crap), and then do an image backup
    of the Crap: drive so that a restore takes just minutes. You'll need to
    create a new image every time there is a new security update, but I
    suspect security updates are being ignored as well.

    >I have my suspicions, but I need to prove it. So, I want a keylogger
    >that I don't have to fork over my green for.


    I guess you're that clueless admin - and don't recognize that when you
    gave everyone admin rights, they can easily discover and either disable
    or remove your pathetic attempt at installing a keylogger. Go spend some
    money and get a person with IT skills to set the computer up correctly.
    Installing software really does take more than inserting the CD and
    clicking "OK" to every message that pops up.

    >The more it monitors in this case, the better. Generally, I'm anti-
    >monitoring in the workplace, but, I can't think of a better way to
    >catch Ms. subversive secretary. Thoughts and ideas appreciated.


    Has the company published WRITTEN policy statements regarding use and
    mis-use of the computer? If not, you d4mn well better consult the
    company legal advisors before you try this stunt. Your posting address
    says New York, and there are both state and federal laws that apply.

    Old guy
     
    Moe Trin, Jun 6, 2007
    #7
  8. The Nerdy Duo

    Autumn Guest

    On Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:19:11 GMT, Benson Hedges <>
    wrote:

    >On 2007-06-05, The Nerdy Duo <> wrotey all complicatey:
    >> Like the rest of us out here, I spend some time as an IT tech when I
    >> feel generous or money is tight. Lately, I've been teching for my
    >> mother in law, and somebody in her office is messing with her CPUs,
    >> uninstalling programs, deleting system files

    >
    >What have they done ? Attacked the CPUs with a soldering iron ? Put oily
    >fingerprints all over them ? Do you even know what a CPU is, Mr. 'IT' ?
    >
    >
    >>. I hate installing the
    >> same software over and over again.

    >
    >It's called 'Microsoft'. Get used to it.
    >
    >>This has made a 6 hour reinstall into a 3 week ordeal where I have to redo
    >>the computer on a daily/ every other day basis.

    >
    >See above.
    >
    >>I have my suspicions, but I need to prove it. So, I want a keylogger that
    >>I don't have to fork over my green for. The more it monitors in this case,
    >>the better. Generally, I'm anti- monitoring in the workplace, but, I can't
    >>think of a better way to catch Ms. subversive secretary. Thoughts and ideas
    >>appreciated.

    >
    >No forking green necessary. Slip the secretary one and realise that it's
    >probably your clueless mother-in-law thinking she has to re-install Windows
    >every time she wants to use it. Which is not too far from the truth.
    >
    >Regards,
    >
    >BH.


    Gee Ward, you were a little hard on The Beaver yesterday, weren't you?
     
    Autumn, Jun 6, 2007
    #8
  9. The Nerdy Duo

    Rick Merrill Guest

    The Nerdy Duo wrote:
    > Like the rest of us out here, I spend some time as an IT tech when I
    > feel generous or money is tight. Lately, I've been teching for my
    > mother in law, and somebody in her office is messing with her CPUs,
    > uninstalling programs, deleting system files. I hate installing the
    > same software over and over again. This has made a 6 hour reinstall
    > into a 3 week ordeal where I have to redo the computer on a daily/
    > every other day basis. I have my suspicions, but I need to prove it.
    > So, I want a keylogger that I don't have to fork over my green for.
    > The more it monitors in this case, the better. Generally, I'm anti-
    > monitoring in the workplace, but, I can't think of a better way to
    > catch Ms. subversive secretary. Thoughts and ideas appreciated.
    >


    can't you just delete the uninstall package or "unwise.exe" or whatever?
     
    Rick Merrill, Jun 6, 2007
    #9
  10. The Nerdy Duo <> (07-06-06 13:27:12):

    > I am indeed an incompetant administrator in the work place. Why?
    > Because I do it for free, and don't give it anywhere near my full
    > attention, so that somebody who does do this to support themselves
    > looks better than what I do, and might look worth the money. So, when
    > you're collecting a paycheck for IT, you be glad that the people who
    > do it for free suck at it. Or else no one would want to pay you for
    > your smarmy attitude. .


    And as you see, incompetent or wrong administration always leads to
    problems, whether you're getting paid or not. Do it properly and save
    yourself a lot of time.


    Regards,
    Ertugrul Söylemez.


    --
    Security is the one concept, which makes things in your life stay as
    they are. Otto is a man, who is afraid of changes in his life; so
    naturally he does not employ security.
     
    Ertugrul Soeylemez, Jun 6, 2007
    #10
  11. "The Nerdy Duo" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Jun 5, 5:42 pm, "Sebastian G." <> wrote:
    >> The Nerdy Duo wrote:
    >> > Lately, I've been teching for my
    >> > mother in law, and somebody in her office is messing with her CPUs,
    >> > uninstalling programs, deleting system files. I hate installing the
    >> > same software over and over again. This has made a 6 hour reinstall
    >> > into a 3 week ordeal where I have to redo the computer on a daily/
    >> > every other day basis. I have my suspicions, but I need to prove it.

    >>
    >> I also have my suspicions, and the evidence is blatantly obvious: You're
    >> giving someone administrative rights who shouldn't have any. How else
    >> could
    >> it be that system files are getting deleted?
    >>
    >> > So, I want a keylogger that I don't have to fork over my green for.

    >>
    >> Huh? How should a keylogger provide evidence that you're an incompetent
    >> administrator? (Other than by the fact that you even draw such
    >> conclusions...)
    >>
    >> > The more it monitors in this case, the better. Generally, I'm anti-
    >> > monitoring in the workplace, but, I can't think of a better way to
    >> > catch Ms. subversive secretary. Thoughts and ideas appreciated.

    >>
    >> Monitoring without sufficient reason (read: suspicion of criminal
    >> activity)
    >> is strictly illegal.

    >
    > I did use the wrong word. I wanted something that would do screen
    > captures and log the times of deletions.
    >
    > As far as the legality goes: In what country? If monitoring in the
    > workplace were illegal here, then it wouldn't be done on such a
    > widespread basis.
    >
    > The secretary only has a user account, but the answer to what is
    > really wrong is this: Mom in law decided to share her entire c drive.
    > Thanks mom.
    >
    > I am indeed an incompetant administrator in the work place. Why?
    > Because I do it for free, and don't give it anywhere near my full
    > attention, so that somebody who does do this to support themselves
    > looks better than what I do, and might look worth the money. So, when
    > you're collecting a paycheck for IT, you be glad that the people who
    > do it for free suck at it. Or else no one would want to pay you for
    > your smarmy attitude. .
    >

    If the company owns the computer, it is not illegal for it to monitor use of
    it's asset. It does need to have a published policy that lets people know
    that monitoring can take place. If you own the computer, you can run any
    legal software on it that you want. You don't have to publish a policy.
    Someone gets in to your box, and you monitor their use you are not violating
    any law anywhere. It would be like telling someone that they cant use
    Lojack to locate their vehicle when an unauthorized person has stolen it.
     
    Richard Johnson, Jun 7, 2007
    #11
  12. The Nerdy Duo

    nemo_outis Guest

    "Richard Johnson" <> wrote in
    news::


    > If the company owns the computer, it is not illegal for it to monitor
    > use of it's asset. It does need to have a published policy that lets
    > people know that monitoring can take place. If you own the computer,
    > you can run any legal software on it that you want. You don't have to
    > publish a policy. Someone gets in to your box, and you monitor their
    > use you are not violating any law anywhere. It would be like telling
    > someone that they cant use Lojack to locate their vehicle when an
    > unauthorized person has stolen it.



    It's not that you are utterly wrong, it's that you are so provincial!

    Whether monotoring is legal or not, and under what conditions, is dependent
    on the JURISDICTION! The US is not the whole world. Not yet, anyway.

    Regards,
     
    nemo_outis, Jun 8, 2007
    #12
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