JVC Camcorder

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by tigercat, Jun 13, 2004.

  1. tigercat

    tigercat Guest

    first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today I tried to
    help my father transfer his camcorder video [my nephew's high school
    graduation] onto his computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB cable
    from the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM.
    However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from the
    CAM to the PC.

    i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was wondering if anyone
    might have any ideas as to what we may have missed? there was one other
    cable I didn't try, it had three different colored pins to plug in [i think
    red, white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding color
    sequence on the back of the computer.

    we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't figure out how
    to run or transfer it onto the PC.

    any help appreciated!

    thanks.
     
    tigercat, Jun 13, 2004
    #1
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  2. tigercat

    Paul - xxx Guest

    tigercat posted:
    > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today I tried
    > to help my father transfer his camcorder video [my nephew's high school
    > graduation] onto his computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB cable
    > from the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM.
    > However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from
    > the CAM to the PC.
    >
    > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was wondering if
    > anyone might have any ideas as to what we may have missed? there was one
    > other cable I didn't try, it had three different colored pins to plug in
    > [i think red, white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a
    > corresponding color sequence on the back of the computer.
    >
    > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't figure out
    > how to run or transfer it onto the PC.


    XP usually 'sees' when a new device on a USB port is slotted in. I would
    leave PC running, connect the cable to the cam, then to the PC, then turn
    the camera on and switch it to whichever setting is suitable for file
    transfer which should be noted in your 'quick-start' guide or whatever JVC
    call it. From there an XP Wizard _should_ take over and ask you whatyou
    want to do and where you want to download the movies to .. ;)

    --
    Paul ...

    (8(|) ... Homer Rocks
     
    Paul - xxx, Jun 13, 2004
    #2
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  3. tigercat

    Boomer Guest

    "tigercat" <> wrote:

    > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today
    > I tried to help my father transfer his camcorder video [my
    > nephew's high school graduation] onto his computer [Win XP
    > Home]. We connected one USB cable from the CAM to the PC, and I
    > could see the PC - USB window on the CAM. However, I didn't see
    > or know anyway to play or transfer the video from the CAM to the
    > PC.
    >
    > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was
    > wondering if anyone might have any ideas as to what we may have
    > missed? there was one other cable I didn't try, it had three
    > different colored pins to plug in [i think red, white and
    > yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding color
    > sequence on the back of the computer.
    >
    > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't
    > figure out how to run or transfer it onto the PC.
    >
    > any help appreciated!
    >
    > thanks.


    Hi

    Maybe something here?
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/starting.a
    sp

    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/firststeps
    ..asp

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-
    1&q=transfer+videos+to+computer

    HTH
     
    Boomer, Jun 13, 2004
    #3
  4. tigercat

    tigercat Guest

    thanks paul. actually, i did exactly what you described, and i even
    downloaded the specific JVC CAM USB driver for Win XP Home. i know that CAM
    was set properly cause it showed "USB-PC" in the window. the problem is
    that Win XP never prompted me to do anything. perhaps i didn't wait long
    enough. i don't know. i had the CAM set to Memory instead of video which i
    believe is the correct setting in order to enable USB.

    thanks again!



    "Paul - xxx" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > tigercat posted:
    > > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today I tried
    > > to help my father transfer his camcorder video [my nephew's high school
    > > graduation] onto his computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB cable
    > > from the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM.
    > > However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from
    > > the CAM to the PC.
    > >
    > > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was wondering if
    > > anyone might have any ideas as to what we may have missed? there was

    one
    > > other cable I didn't try, it had three different colored pins to plug in
    > > [i think red, white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a
    > > corresponding color sequence on the back of the computer.
    > >
    > > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't figure out
    > > how to run or transfer it onto the PC.

    >
    > XP usually 'sees' when a new device on a USB port is slotted in. I would
    > leave PC running, connect the cable to the cam, then to the PC, then turn
    > the camera on and switch it to whichever setting is suitable for file
    > transfer which should be noted in your 'quick-start' guide or whatever JVC
    > call it. From there an XP Wizard _should_ take over and ask you whatyou
    > want to do and where you want to download the movies to .. ;)
    >
    > --
    > Paul ...
    >
    > (8(|) ... Homer Rocks
    >
    >
     
    tigercat, Jun 13, 2004
    #4
  5. tigercat

    tigercat Guest

    thanks boomer - you're not a david wells fan by any chance are you?

    anyway, those links do seem instructive and helpful, but someone is also
    suggesting that the PC needs a specific card to be able to run, play, burn
    video from a camcorder to a PC.

    so i'm not sure if the PC should just recognize the USB connection and than
    windows movie maker should prompt me for what to do, or if i need to buy
    some other hardware device for my dad's PC?

    thanks again!

    "Boomer" <> wrote in message
    news:40cc6a0f$0$8473$...
    > "tigercat" <> wrote:
    >
    > > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today
    > > I tried to help my father transfer his camcorder video [my
    > > nephew's high school graduation] onto his computer [Win XP
    > > Home]. We connected one USB cable from the CAM to the PC, and I
    > > could see the PC - USB window on the CAM. However, I didn't see
    > > or know anyway to play or transfer the video from the CAM to the
    > > PC.
    > >
    > > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was
    > > wondering if anyone might have any ideas as to what we may have
    > > missed? there was one other cable I didn't try, it had three
    > > different colored pins to plug in [i think red, white and
    > > yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding color
    > > sequence on the back of the computer.
    > >
    > > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't
    > > figure out how to run or transfer it onto the PC.
    > >
    > > any help appreciated!
    > >
    > > thanks.

    >
    > Hi
    >
    > Maybe something here?
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/starting.a
    > sp
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/firststeps
    > .asp
    >
    > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-
    > 1&q=transfer+videos+to+computer
    >
    > HTH
     
    tigercat, Jun 13, 2004
    #5
  6. tigercat

    Boomer Guest

    "tigercat" <> wrote:

    > thanks boomer - you're not a david wells fan by any chance are
    > you?


    Nope. Old time Yankees fan.
    >
    > anyway, those links do seem instructive and helpful,


    You read all 825,000 of them already? ;o)

    > but someone
    > is also suggesting that the PC needs a specific card to be able
    > to run, play, burn video from a camcorder to a PC.
    >
    > so i'm not sure if the PC should just recognize the USB
    > connection and than windows movie maker should prompt me for
    > what to do, or if i need to buy some other hardware device for
    > my dad's PC?
    >
    > thanks again!
    >
    > "Boomer" <> wrote in message
    > news:40cc6a0f$0$8473$...
    >> "tigercat" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but
    >> > today I tried to help my father transfer his camcorder video
    >> > [my nephew's high school graduation] onto his computer [Win
    >> > XP Home]. We connected one USB cable from the CAM to the PC,
    >> > and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM. However, I
    >> > didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from
    >> > the CAM to the PC.
    >> >
    >> > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was
    >> > wondering if anyone might have any ideas as to what we may
    >> > have missed? there was one other cable I didn't try, it had
    >> > three different colored pins to plug in [i think red, white
    >> > and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding
    >> > color sequence on the back of the computer.
    >> >
    >> > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't
    >> > figure out how to run or transfer it onto the PC.
    >> >
    >> > any help appreciated!
    >> >
    >> > thanks.

    >>
    >> Hi
    >>
    >> Maybe something here?
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/start
    >> ing.a sp
    >>
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/first
    >> steps .asp
    >>
    >> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-
    >> 1&q=transfer+videos+to+computer
    >>
    >> HTH

    >
    >
     
    Boomer, Jun 13, 2004
    #6
  7. tigercat

    Trev Guest

    "tigercat" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > thanks boomer - you're not a david wells fan by any chance are you?
    >
    > anyway, those links do seem instructive and helpful, but someone is also
    > suggesting that the PC needs a specific card to be able to run, play, burn
    > video from a camcorder to a PC.
    >
    > so i'm not sure if the PC should just recognize the USB connection and

    than
    > windows movie maker should prompt me for what to do, or if i need to buy
    > some other hardware device for my dad's PC?
    >
    > thanks again!


    Normally Digital camcorders us Firewire to transfer DV video(allows the pc
    to control the camcorder during download). USB to transfer stills. check the
    manual for your camcorder
     
    Trev, Jun 13, 2004
    #7
  8. tigercat

    tigercat Guest

    thanks trev! you may be onto something there because there's two connection
    types on the CAM: a USB one which i know works to transfer still pics, and
    a DV one which we couldn't find the cable for. thanks again!


    "Trev" <trevbowdenATwireless.pipexDOTnet> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "tigercat" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > thanks boomer - you're not a david wells fan by any chance are you?
    > >
    > > anyway, those links do seem instructive and helpful, but someone is also
    > > suggesting that the PC needs a specific card to be able to run, play,

    burn
    > > video from a camcorder to a PC.
    > >
    > > so i'm not sure if the PC should just recognize the USB connection and

    > than
    > > windows movie maker should prompt me for what to do, or if i need to buy
    > > some other hardware device for my dad's PC?
    > >
    > > thanks again!

    >
    > Normally Digital camcorders us Firewire to transfer DV video(allows the

    pc
    > to control the camcorder during download). USB to transfer stills. check

    the
    > manual for your camcorder
    >
    >
     
    tigercat, Jun 13, 2004
    #8
  9. tigercat

    tigercat Guest

    i'm also a yankees fan, my dad wouldn't allow us to root for any other team
    growing up and even today!

    about the links, i read the MS ones, the other multi link pages were saved
    for gradual reading and education.

    take care and thanks again!




    "Boomer" <> wrote in message
    news:40cc71f2$0$50733$...
    > "tigercat" <> wrote:
    >
    > > thanks boomer - you're not a david wells fan by any chance are
    > > you?

    >
    > Nope. Old time Yankees fan.
    > >
    > > anyway, those links do seem instructive and helpful,

    >
    > You read all 825,000 of them already? ;o)
    >
    > > but someone
    > > is also suggesting that the PC needs a specific card to be able
    > > to run, play, burn video from a camcorder to a PC.
    > >
    > > so i'm not sure if the PC should just recognize the USB
    > > connection and than windows movie maker should prompt me for
    > > what to do, or if i need to buy some other hardware device for
    > > my dad's PC?
    > >
    > > thanks again!
    > >
    > > "Boomer" <> wrote in message
    > > news:40cc6a0f$0$8473$...
    > >> "tigercat" <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but
    > >> > today I tried to help my father transfer his camcorder video
    > >> > [my nephew's high school graduation] onto his computer [Win
    > >> > XP Home]. We connected one USB cable from the CAM to the PC,
    > >> > and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM. However, I
    > >> > didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from
    > >> > the CAM to the PC.
    > >> >
    > >> > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was
    > >> > wondering if anyone might have any ideas as to what we may
    > >> > have missed? there was one other cable I didn't try, it had
    > >> > three different colored pins to plug in [i think red, white
    > >> > and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding
    > >> > color sequence on the back of the computer.
    > >> >
    > >> > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't
    > >> > figure out how to run or transfer it onto the PC.
    > >> >
    > >> > any help appreciated!
    > >> >
    > >> > thanks.
    > >>
    > >> Hi
    > >>
    > >> Maybe something here?
    > >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/start
    > >> ing.a sp
    > >>
    > >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/first
    > >> steps .asp
    > >>
    > >> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-
    > >> 1&q=transfer+videos+to+computer
    > >>
    > >> HTH

    > >
    > >

    >
     
    tigercat, Jun 13, 2004
    #9
  10. tigercat

    Hywel Guest

    In article <>, tigercat says...
    > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today I tried to
    > help my father transfer his camcorder video [my nephew's high school
    > graduation] onto his computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB cable
    > from the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM.
    > However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from the
    > CAM to the PC.
    >
    > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was wondering if anyone
    > might have any ideas as to what we may have missed? there was one other
    > cable I didn't try, it had three different colored pins to plug in [i think
    > red, white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding color
    > sequence on the back of the computer.
    >
    > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't figure out how
    > to run or transfer it onto the PC.


    What software are you using to capture the video from the camera?

    http://www.microsoft.com/moviemaker/ may help.

    --
    Hywel I do not eat quiche
    http://kibo.org.uk/
    http://kibo.org.uk/mfaq.php
     
    Hywel, Jun 13, 2004
    #10
  11. tigercat

    tigercat Guest

    we had windows movie maker and some other software too, but none seemed to
    work.

    thank you.


    "Hywel" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In article <>, tigercat says...
    > > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today I tried

    to
    > > help my father transfer his camcorder video [my nephew's high school
    > > graduation] onto his computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB cable
    > > from the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM.
    > > However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from

    the
    > > CAM to the PC.
    > >
    > > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was wondering if

    anyone
    > > might have any ideas as to what we may have missed? there was one other
    > > cable I didn't try, it had three different colored pins to plug in [i

    think
    > > red, white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding

    color
    > > sequence on the back of the computer.
    > >
    > > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't figure out

    how
    > > to run or transfer it onto the PC.

    >
    > What software are you using to capture the video from the camera?
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/moviemaker/ may help.
    >
    > --
    > Hywel I do not eat quiche
    > http://kibo.org.uk/
    > http://kibo.org.uk/mfaq.php
     
    tigercat, Jun 13, 2004
    #11
  12. tigercat

    Boomer Guest

    "tigercat" <> wrote:

    > i'm also a yankees fan, my dad wouldn't allow us to root for any
    > other team growing up and even today!


    Good father. ;)
    >
    > about the links, i read the MS ones, the other multi link pages
    > were saved for gradual reading and education.
    >
    > take care and thanks again!


    You're welcome. Good luck on your movies. I have to go fix a
    scanner now. :)


    > "Boomer" <> wrote in message
    > news:40cc71f2$0$50733$...
    >> "tigercat" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > thanks boomer - you're not a david wells fan by any chance
    >> > are you?

    >>
    >> Nope. Old time Yankees fan.
    >> >
    >> > anyway, those links do seem instructive and helpful,

    >>
    >> You read all 825,000 of them already? ;o)
    >>
    >> > but someone
    >> > is also suggesting that the PC needs a specific card to be
    >> > able to run, play, burn video from a camcorder to a PC.
    >> >
    >> > so i'm not sure if the PC should just recognize the USB
    >> > connection and than windows movie maker should prompt me for
    >> > what to do, or if i need to buy some other hardware device
    >> > for my dad's PC?
    >> >
    >> > thanks again!
    >> >
    >> > "Boomer" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:40cc6a0f$0$8473$...
    >> >> "tigercat" <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but
    >> >> > today I tried to help my father transfer his camcorder
    >> >> > video [my nephew's high school graduation] onto his
    >> >> > computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB cable from
    >> >> > the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on
    >> >> > the CAM. However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or
    >> >> > transfer the video from the CAM to the PC.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was
    >> >> > wondering if anyone might have any ideas as to what we may
    >> >> > have missed? there was one other cable I didn't try, it
    >> >> > had three different colored pins to plug in [i think red,
    >> >> > white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a
    >> >> > corresponding color sequence on the back of the computer.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we
    >> >> > couldn't figure out how to run or transfer it onto the PC.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > any help appreciated!
    >> >> >
    >> >> > thanks.
    >> >>
    >> >> Hi
    >> >>
    >> >> Maybe something here?
    >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/st
    >> >> art ing.a sp
    >> >>
    >> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/howto/movies/fi
    >> >> rst steps .asp
    >> >>
    >> >> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-
    >> >> 1&q=transfer+videos+to+computer
    >> >>
    >> >> HTH
    >> >
    >> >

    >>

    >
    >
     
    Boomer, Jun 13, 2004
    #12
  13. tigercat

    Hamman Guest

    "tigercat" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today I tried

    to
    > help my father transfer his camcorder video [my nephew's high school
    > graduation] onto his computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB cable
    > from the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM.
    > However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from

    the
    > CAM to the PC.
    >
    > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was wondering if

    anyone
    > might have any ideas as to what we may have missed? there was one other
    > cable I didn't try, it had three different colored pins to plug in [i

    think
    > red, white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding color
    > sequence on the back of the computer.
    >
    > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't figure out

    how
    > to run or transfer it onto the PC.
    >
    > any help appreciated!
    >
    > thanks.
    >
    >
    >

    Providing the camera had a connector labeled 'DV' or '1394' you need to buy
    an Firewire PCI card (about £10 GBP) and a firewire cable (about £5 GBP).
    The USB will be for using the camera as a still capture device, the firewire
    will be for digital video.


    You also need some capture software, i recommend Adobe Preimere Pro, or if
    youre doing it on the cheap, windows movie maker 2.

    hamman
     
    Hamman, Jun 13, 2004
    #13
  14. tigercat

    tigercat Guest

    thank you! i will try this :)


    "Hamman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "tigercat" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today I tried

    > to
    > > help my father transfer his camcorder video [my nephew's high school
    > > graduation] onto his computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB cable
    > > from the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on the CAM.
    > > However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video from

    > the
    > > CAM to the PC.
    > >
    > > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was wondering if

    > anyone
    > > might have any ideas as to what we may have missed? there was one other
    > > cable I didn't try, it had three different colored pins to plug in [i

    > think
    > > red, white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a corresponding

    color
    > > sequence on the back of the computer.
    > >
    > > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't figure out

    > how
    > > to run or transfer it onto the PC.
    > >
    > > any help appreciated!
    > >
    > > thanks.
    > >
    > >
    > >

    > Providing the camera had a connector labeled 'DV' or '1394' you need to

    buy
    > an Firewire PCI card (about £10 GBP) and a firewire cable (about £5 GBP).
    > The USB will be for using the camera as a still capture device, the

    firewire
    > will be for digital video.
    >
    >
    > You also need some capture software, i recommend Adobe Preimere Pro, or if
    > youre doing it on the cheap, windows movie maker 2.
    >
    > hamman
    >
    >
     
    tigercat, Jun 13, 2004
    #14
  15. Dude, you need to open you video capture program, like a MPEG program (like
    Windows Movie Maker). Then, you need to play the video on the cam while
    your program captures it. It takes a really long time. I have a Panasonic
    MiniDV cam and it takes about 15 seconds to transfer every 1 second of
    video. You read that correctly. It takes about 14-15 hours to transfer 1
    hour of video.
    You need to bust out your manual, and any CD-ROMs that came with the cam,
    and make sure you have the video-capture program installed. Then you need
    to learn how to use it in conjunction with the cam.

    Good luck.

    "tigercat" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > thanks paul. actually, i did exactly what you described, and i even
    > downloaded the specific JVC CAM USB driver for Win XP Home. i know that

    CAM
    > was set properly cause it showed "USB-PC" in the window. the problem is
    > that Win XP never prompted me to do anything. perhaps i didn't wait long
    > enough. i don't know. i had the CAM set to Memory instead of video which

    i
    > believe is the correct setting in order to enable USB.
    >
    > thanks again!
    >
    >
    >
    > "Paul - xxx" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > tigercat posted:
    > > > first let me apologize for the lack of specifics here, but today I

    tried
    > > > to help my father transfer his camcorder video [my nephew's high

    school
    > > > graduation] onto his computer [Win XP Home]. We connected one USB

    cable
    > > > from the CAM to the PC, and I could see the PC - USB window on the

    CAM.
    > > > However, I didn't see or know anyway to play or transfer the video

    from
    > > > the CAM to the PC.
    > > >
    > > > i don't recall the model number of the JVC CAM, but was wondering if
    > > > anyone might have any ideas as to what we may have missed? there was

    > one
    > > > other cable I didn't try, it had three different colored pins to plug

    in
    > > > [i think red, white and yellow], but of course, there wasn't a
    > > > corresponding color sequence on the back of the computer.
    > > >
    > > > we were able to run the video on his Sony TV, but we couldn't figure

    out
    > > > how to run or transfer it onto the PC.

    > >
    > > XP usually 'sees' when a new device on a USB port is slotted in. I

    would
    > > leave PC running, connect the cable to the cam, then to the PC, then

    turn
    > > the camera on and switch it to whichever setting is suitable for file
    > > transfer which should be noted in your 'quick-start' guide or whatever

    JVC
    > > call it. From there an XP Wizard _should_ take over and ask you whatyou
    > > want to do and where you want to download the movies to .. ;)
    > >
    > > --
    > > Paul ...
    > >
    > > (8(|) ... Homer Rocks
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    pablo fuentes, Jun 15, 2004
    #15
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