jeez I am getting sick of this XP nonsense

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Peter, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. Peter

    Peter Guest

    Was happily playing on the net last night when the firewall suddenly
    told me that 'simple file transfer protocol' was trying to connect out
    to some IP starting on 66.nnn.nnn.nnn
    Of course I disallowed this, and was wondering quietly if this was
    svchost, and what it thought it was doing, when I got a funny lookin'
    system requester telling me my system was going to shut down and I had
    30 seconds to save my work.
    This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    power switch on the UPS.
    XP would no longer boot. something like nvata(xxx).sys missing or
    damaged, doing a repair install didn't fix it.

    <sigh>
    boot from cd to command shell

    c:
    fdisk /mbr (hoping this would disrupt any bootblock virus?)
    deltree windows

    reboot from CD, new install of XP.

    Install sygate firewall,
    install Norton AV
    install Mozilla Firebird 0.7
    install Proxomitron (last version)
    go online, do portscans, upgrade and run virus defs and scan

    no results that indicate foul play.

    go away and do other things.
    come back to reconnect to the net and immediately after connecting I see
    a yellow letter-envelope icon flash up three or four times in the
    systray. What is this thing? Can't catch it tho'.

    W.T.F.

    more scans, looks good. Neither Symantec nor Sygate can break in, find
    an open port, find a trojan, find my smtp server nor anything else
    beyond my IP and that I am running firebird browser.

    disconnect, go away, do other things.

    try to reconnect to net: Ihug Ultra RAS has lost its password. This is
    getting very very worrying! That's how that whole stupid business
    started with my old install of XP: lan connections dropping off, RAS
    passwords mysteriously lost ...

    Does this odd behaviour ring a bell with anybody?

    cheers, and TIA -Peter
     
    Peter, Dec 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. Peter

    Eljayb Guest

    >come back to reconnect to the net and immediately after connecting I see
    >a yellow letter-envelope icon flash up three or four times in the
    >s.ystray. What is this thing? Can't catch it tho'.


    Usually an indication that Norton is checking your incoming mail.
    --
    Regards

    Eljayb
     
    Eljayb, Dec 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. Peter wrote:
    > This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    > power switch on the UPS.


    Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.

    Cheers,
    Nicholas Sherlock
     
    Nicholas Sherlock, Dec 22, 2003
    #3
  4. Peter

    T.N.O. Guest

    Nicholas Sherlock wrote:
    >>This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    >>power switch on the UPS.


    > Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.


    heh, you wrote what I thought.
     
    T.N.O., Dec 22, 2003
    #4
  5. Peter

    Rider Guest

    "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    news:bs7f0o$k59$...
    > Peter wrote:
    > > This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    > > power switch on the UPS.

    >
    > Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    >


    And then blame XP LMAO
     
    Rider, Dec 22, 2003
    #5
  6. "Rider" <> wrote in message
    news:bs7gq6$lap$...
    >
    > "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    > news:bs7f0o$k59$...
    >> Peter wrote:
    >> > This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    >> > power switch on the UPS.

    >>
    >> Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    >>

    >
    > And then blame XP LMAO



    XP has a transacted file system called NTFS

    Generally your files won't get corrupted by a power outage
     
    Nathan Mercer, Dec 22, 2003
    #6
  7. Peter

    AD. Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:41:22 +1300, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > XP has a transacted file system called NTFS
    >
    > Generally your files won't get corrupted by a power outage


    Do OEMs (eg IBM, Dell etc) come with NTFS out of the box yet?

    It's been a year or two since I've dealt with OEM machines so this may be
    out of date, but having to convert FAT32 to NTFS was something that should
    be done by default IMO.

    Is it true that a converted filesystem still has the wasteful FAT cluster
    sizes?

    Cheers
    Anton
     
    AD., Dec 22, 2003
    #7
  8. Peter

    T.N.O. Guest

    AD. wrote:

    >>XP has a transacted file system called NTFS
    >>Generally your files won't get corrupted by a power outage


    heh, "generally" a police chase wont get you killed...

    > Is it true that a converted filesystem still has the wasteful FAT cluster
    > sizes?


    they seem to, last time I did it, it was deathly slow... format and
    reinstall, with TFS by default, and all is fast again.
     
    T.N.O., Dec 22, 2003
    #8
  9. Peter

    Rider Guest

    "Nathan Mercer" <nathan@4757979!!!SPAMSUCKS****mcs.co.nz> wrote in message
    news:vNHFb.37330$...
    >
    > "Rider" <> wrote in message
    > news:bs7gq6$lap$...
    > >
    > > "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    > > news:bs7f0o$k59$...
    > >> Peter wrote:
    > >> > This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    > >> > power switch on the UPS.
    > >>
    > >> Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    > >>

    > >
    > > And then blame XP LMAO

    >
    >
    > XP has a transacted file system called NTFS
    >
    > Generally your files won't get corrupted by a power outage
    >
    >


    Then it doesnt work properly as I've had a few machines that have had
    corrupted files due to power outages.
     
    Rider, Dec 22, 2003
    #9
  10. Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > XP has a transacted file system called NTFS
    >
    > Generally your files won't get corrupted by a power outage



    Yeah, would be nice if they provided some tools to recover them however.

    Many times I have had partitions revert to the type of "Raw" and I have had to
    run something like file scavanger over them to recover all the files. Once I
    have the important stuff off I then let nortons have a shot at it, and its
    usually sucessfull when it just corrects the partition table.
     
    Richard Malcolm-Smith, Dec 22, 2003
    #10
  11. Peter

    Peter Guest

    In article <bs7f0o$k59$>,
    says...
    > Peter wrote:
    > > This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    > > power switch on the UPS.

    >
    > Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Nicholas Sherlock
    >


    Way to corrupt any open data files you may have at the time, sure.

    Way to corrupt files that are just sitting on your hdd? I don't think
    so, mate. Driver files don't customarily get written to by the os during
    normal usage.

    -P.
     
    Peter, Dec 22, 2003
    #11
  12. Peter

    Peter Guest

    In article <bs7gq6$lap$>,
    says...
    >
    > "Nicholas Sherlock" <> wrote in message
    > news:bs7f0o$k59$...
    > > Peter wrote:
    > > > This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    > > > power switch on the UPS.

    > >
    > > Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    > >

    >
    > And then blame XP LMAO


    Actually, I am not blaming XP for what is going on as such.

    Albeit, I guess I could blame XP for losing my RAS passwords which has
    happened 4-5 times now, and for having such wonderful trojan
    vulnerabilities which never were exploited/exploitable to the same
    extent on Win98.

    It's just the way everything is skewed and crooked at the moment that is
    really pissing me off.

    -P.
     
    Peter, Dec 22, 2003
    #12
  13. Peter wrote:
    > Way to corrupt any open data files you may have at the time, sure.
    >
    > Way to corrupt files that are just sitting on your hdd? I don't think
    > so, mate. Driver files don't customarily get written to by the os during
    > normal usage.


    But the file system structure is written to.

    When I have had it happen and the partition still shows as being there, all it
    takes is going into the recovery console and running chkdsk /p quite often,
    otherwise copy the affected file onto the harddrive from another windows
    installation and see how that goes (after checking the drive for errors first)

    Its when the drive shows as a big empty partition you have problems.
     
    Richard Malcolm-Smith, Dec 22, 2003
    #13
  14. Peter

    Bok Guest

    >> XP has a transacted file system called NTFS
    >>
    >> Generally your files won't get corrupted by a power outage

    >
    > Then it doesnt work properly as I've had a few machines that have had
    > corrupted files due to power outages.


    NTFS journalling (and recovery) is designed to protect file system
    meta-data. It does not protect the contents of user files. In fact, since
    NTFS jounraling employs a lazy commit algorithm (for performance reasons),
    it also can only return meta-data to a consistent state; it doesn't
    guarantee Durability of meta-data transactions.
     
    Bok, Dec 22, 2003
    #14
  15. Peter

    Bok Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 12:16:57 +1300, Bok wrote:

    > NTFS journalling (and recovery) is designed to protect file system
    > meta-data. It does not protect the contents of user files. In fact, since
    > NTFS jounraling employs a lazy commit algorithm (for performance reasons),
    > it also can only return meta-data to a consistent state; it doesn't
    > guarantee Durability of meta-data transactions.


    I should add the above is true of most journaling file systems;
    applications can take steps to protect their own data. Most commercial
    DBMSs for example journal transactions made to the database and ACID
    compliant DBMSs can ensure consistency and durablity of database
    transactions.
     
    Bok, Dec 22, 2003
    #15
  16. Peter

    Bok Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:41:22 +1300, Nathan Mercer wrote:

    > XP has a transacted file system called NTFS
    > Generally your files won't get corrupted by a power outage


    "Generally" isn't good enough Nathan.

    NTFS journalling&recovery can only recover file system meta-data to a
    consistent state. Even that can be subverted by write-back caching in disk
    controllers that don't have a power protected cache. [In Windoze XP and
    win2k (SP3+) NTFS journal writes to SCSI devices have the FUA bit set,
    which if it is observed by the disk subsystem will force cache write
    through]
     
    Bok, Dec 23, 2003
    #16
  17. Peter

    GraB Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:01:17 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    <> wrote:

    >Peter wrote:
    >> This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    >> power switch on the UPS.

    >
    >Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Nicholas Sherlock
    >

    Is this an XP vulnerability? There have been many times where I have
    done the same with 98SE, sometimes after a freeze, without getting
    corrupted files.
     
    GraB, Dec 23, 2003
    #17
  18. Peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:56:23 +1300, GraB <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:01:17 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>Peter wrote:
    >>> This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    >>> power switch on the UPS.

    >>
    >>Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    >>

    >Is this an XP vulnerability? There have been many times where I have
    >done the same with 98SE, sometimes after a freeze, without getting
    >corrupted files.
    >

    Well, you've been extremely lucky. 98SE is much better than 95 (and I
    think 98). I once had to rebuild a system for a lady who just switched
    her computer off every night. She got away with it for *months*. Then
    suddenly, *blooooeui*!!!

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Christmas comes but once a year, thank the gods. I don't think
    that I could cope with twice.
     
    Enkidu, Dec 23, 2003
    #18
  19. Peter

    GraB Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:10:53 +1300, Enkidu <>
    wrote:

    >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:56:23 +1300, GraB <> wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:01:17 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    >><> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Peter wrote:
    >>>> This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    >>>> power switch on the UPS.
    >>>
    >>>Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    >>>

    >>Is this an XP vulnerability? There have been many times where I have
    >>done the same with 98SE, sometimes after a freeze, without getting
    >>corrupted files.
    >>

    >Well, you've been extremely lucky. 98SE is much better than 95 (and I
    >think 98). I once had to rebuild a system for a lady who just switched
    >her computer off every night. She got away with it for *months*. Then
    >suddenly, *blooooeui*!!!
    >


    Off course, Nortons Disk Doctor always runs when restarting the
    computer after such a close down. That fixes things like wrong file
    space, lost clusters (which I always delete), etc.
     
    GraB, Dec 23, 2003
    #19
  20. Peter

    Enkidu Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:44:39 +1300, GraB <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:10:53 +1300, Enkidu <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 15:56:23 +1300, GraB <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:01:17 +1300, "Nicholas Sherlock"
    >>><> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Peter wrote:
    >>>>> This looked suspiciously like virus like activity to me and I hit the
    >>>>> power switch on the UPS.
    >>>>
    >>>>Wow, congratulations. Way to corrupt your files.
    >>>>
    >>>Is this an XP vulnerability? There have been many times where I have
    >>>done the same with 98SE, sometimes after a freeze, without getting
    >>>corrupted files.
    >>>

    >>Well, you've been extremely lucky. 98SE is much better than 95 (and I
    >>think 98). I once had to rebuild a system for a lady who just switched
    >>her computer off every night. She got away with it for *months*. Then
    >>suddenly, *blooooeui*!!!

    >
    >Off course, Nortons Disk Doctor always runs when restarting the
    >computer after such a close down. That fixes things like wrong file
    >space, lost clusters (which I always delete), etc.
    >

    That's slightly different though from the average user who doesn't
    know what NDD is. For an average user XP is much more likely to
    survive an accidental power down.

    Cheers,

    Cliff
    --

    Christmas comes but once a year, thank the gods. I don't think
    that I could cope with twice.
     
    Enkidu, Dec 23, 2003
    #20
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