Jack Frost killed my digital camera

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Wm Watt, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. Wm Watt

    Wm Watt Guest

    I had it in my pocket to keep it warm but when I took it out and tried
    using shutter delay a couple of times in succession it died, or at
    least the AAA alkaline battery died. Do other people have this
    proble? What is the effective temperature range for digital cameras?
    Thanks.
    Wm Watt, Dec 7, 2007
    #1
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  2. Wm Watt

    Pat Guest

    On Dec 7, 10:02 am, Wm Watt <> wrote:
    > I had it in my pocket to keep it warm but when I took it out and tried
    > using shutter delay a couple of times in succession it died, or at
    > least the AAA alkaline battery died. Do other people have this
    > proble? What is the effective temperature range for digital cameras?
    > Thanks.


    I don't know if such a thing exists for all cameras, all I know is
    what I've done. I've never taken it much below -15F or -20F, but I
    would guess it could go down a few more degrees.
    Pat, Dec 7, 2007
    #2
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  3. Wm Watt <> wrote:
    >I had it in my pocket to keep it warm but when I took it out and tried
    >using shutter delay a couple of times in succession it died, or at
    >least the AAA alkaline battery died. Do other people have this
    >proble? What is the effective temperature range for digital cameras?
    >Thanks.


    The batteries got cold. They are less able to provide
    energy when cold, compared to warm (a fully charged
    battery might be able to give you only a fraction of its
    energy if it is at -40F, and most of its energy if it is
    at +40F).

    If your batteries get cold, the camera stops working
    until either 1) you supply fresh batteries, or 2) warm
    up your cold batteries.

    Different types of batteries lose more faster than
    others.

    The trick is indeed keeping the camera in a warm pocket.
    Note that an outside pocket isn't warm, but an inside
    one is... which might be what bit you batteries.

    --
    Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
    Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
    Floyd L. Davidson, Dec 7, 2007
    #3
  4. Alkaline batteries don't do well in the cold. I believe that lithium
    does better, but not all cameras work well with lithium.

    "Wm Watt" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I had it in my pocket to keep it warm but when I took it out and tried
    > using shutter delay a couple of times in succession it died, or at
    > least the AAA alkaline battery died. Do other people have this
    > proble? What is the effective temperature range for digital cameras?
    > Thanks.



    --
    Joseph Meehan

    Dia 's Muire duit
    Joseph Meehan, Dec 7, 2007
    #4
  5. Wm Watt

    ASAAR Guest

    On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 07:02:48 -0800 (PST), Wm Watt wrote:

    > I had it in my pocket to keep it warm but when I took it out and tried
    > using shutter delay a couple of times in succession it died, or at
    > least the AAA alkaline battery died. Do other people have this
    > proble? What is the effective temperature range for digital cameras?


    What camera is this? Just wondering if it's a typo because not
    many cameras use AAA batteries. Most cameras that use alkalines use
    AA batteries. Not that this really matters . . . :)

    All of the camera manuals I've seen so far have stated the
    operating temperature range but if you don't have yours, it's
    probably not much different than the ones I've seen. Canon's old
    Powershots (S10, S20 from 2000/2001) is 32° to 104° F (0° to 40° C),
    but it shouldn't have a problem in slightly colder weather. It uses
    a NiMH battery pack, though, not alkalines, but this is a typical
    range. Canon's Powershots A610 and A620 and some of Fuji's cameras
    that use AA alkaline batteries all have the same 0° to 40° C
    operating temperature range. If you'll be shooting in much colder
    temperatures, NiMH batteries will be slightly better, but lithium
    AAA and AA batteries should be much, much better. Most cameras
    designed to use alkalines can also use lithium batteries, but a few
    have manufacturer's warnings in the manuals to avoid using them.
    The reason is that in older cameras that use a lot more power than
    newer models, especially if many shots are taken in quick succession
    using the flash, lithium batteries can get too hot for smaller
    cameras that don't have good heat dissipation. Lithium AA and AAA
    batteries can operate down to -40° C (which is also -40° F), which
    is likely to be much colder than you or your cameras will ever see,
    so even if your camera is one of the few that don't recommend the
    use of lithium batteries, it probably won't hurt them if they're
    used outdoors in frigid weather, or indoors if the flash isn't
    heavily used. Lithium batteries are more expensive than alkalines,
    but they have an another advantage in that they last much longer,
    usually providing from 200% to 400% more shots per set.
    ASAAR, Dec 7, 2007
    #5
  6. Wm Watt

    ray Guest

    On Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:02:48 -0800, Wm Watt wrote:

    > I had it in my pocket to keep it warm but when I took it out and tried
    > using shutter delay a couple of times in succession it died, or at
    > least the AAA alkaline battery died. Do other people have this
    > proble? What is the effective temperature range for digital cameras?
    > Thanks.


    A link was published in a recent thread. Try www.batterydata.com and
    scroll about a third of the way down the page for a nice graph.
    ray, Dec 7, 2007
    #6
  7. Wm Watt

    John Turco Guest

    ASAAR wrote:

    <heavily edited for brevity>

    > Lithium batteries are more expensive than alkalines, but they have an
    > another advantage in that they last much longer, usually providing from
    > 200% to 400% more shots per set.



    Hello, ASAAR:

    I wonder whether these lithiums would be useful, in devices other than
    digital cameras? Neither of my cordless mouses - Microsoft "IntelliPoint
    Explorer" and A4 Tech "Office 8K" - has ever given me much more than
    a couple of weeks, on a set of AA cells. (The former can't even take
    rechargeables, in fact.)

    Hence, though I'm able to put Ni-MH batteries in the Office 8K, needing
    to swap them in and out, so often, gets to be a real drag!


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
    John Turco, Dec 11, 2007
    #7
  8. Wm Watt

    ASAAR Guest

    On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:33:52 -0600, John Turco wrote:

    > I wonder whether these lithiums would be useful, in devices other than
    > digital cameras? Neither of my cordless mouses - Microsoft "IntelliPoint
    > Explorer" and A4 Tech "Office 8K" - has ever given me much more than
    > a couple of weeks, on a set of AA cells. (The former can't even take
    > rechargeables, in fact.)


    They'd probably work, but as the mice are low power devices, they
    won't last substantially longer than alkaline batteries. If I
    recall correctly, lithium AAA batteries didn't quite provide double
    the battery life of alkalines used in Palm III PDAs, where alkalines
    generally lasted between 40 and 50 hours per pair.


    > Hence, though I'm able to put Ni-MH batteries in the Office 8K, needing
    > to swap them in and out, so often, gets to be a real drag!


    Here's a "get rich" idea for you to patent - a slow charging dock
    for cordless mice! :)
    ASAAR, Dec 11, 2007
    #8
  9. Wm Watt

    Mephisto Guest

    ASAAR wrote:

    > Here's a "get rich" idea for you to patent - a slow charging dock
    > for cordless mice! :)
    >


    Logitech has that already. At least they did because I had a mouse of
    theirs that had a charging dock. I went back to a corded mouse though
    because they never need charging and are lighter. Nothing worse than a
    mouse or keyboard that needs charging while I am in the middle of a game.
    Mephisto, Dec 11, 2007
    #9
  10. Wm Watt

    Rich Guest

    On Dec 7, 10:02 am, Wm Watt <> wrote:
    > I had it in my pocket to keep it warm but when I took it out and tried
    > using shutter delay a couple of times in succession it died, or at
    > least the AAA alkaline battery died. Do other people have this
    > proble? What is the effective temperature range for digital cameras?
    > Thanks.


    Batteries tend to fail below freezing, their energy drops fast. They
    suggest keeping the battery in your pocket and putting it into the
    camera when you need it. Carry two sets.
    Also, cameras exposed to sub-freezing temps and brought inside
    uncovered can develop condensation on the inside, sometimes right on
    the sensor.
    Rich, Dec 12, 2007
    #10
  11. Wm Watt

    ASAAR Guest

    On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:53:49 GMT, Mephisto wrote:

    >> Here's a "get rich" idea for you to patent - a slow charging dock
    >> for cordless mice! :)

    >
    >
    > Logitech has that already. At least they did because I had a mouse of
    > theirs that had a charging dock. I went back to a corded mouse though
    > because they never need charging and are lighter. Nothing worse than a
    > mouse or keyboard that needs charging while I am in the middle of a game.


    So I see. I was just in Staples yesterday and saw one of them.
    It did appear rather larger than I'd like.
    ASAAR, Dec 13, 2007
    #11
  12. Wm Watt

    ASAAR Guest

    On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:33:52 -0600, John Turco wrote:

    > I wonder whether these lithiums would be useful, in devices other than
    > digital cameras? Neither of my cordless mouses - Microsoft "IntelliPoint
    > Explorer" and A4 Tech "Office 8K" - has ever given me much more than
    > a couple of weeks, on a set of AA cells. (The former can't even take
    > rechargeables, in fact.)
    >
    > Hence, though I'm able to put Ni-MH batteries in the Office 8K, needing
    > to swap them in and out, so often, gets to be a real drag!


    Update - I was in Staples yesterday and saw a slew of 'em from
    Microsoft and Logitech. Some had no battery life figures on the
    box. Others said "up to" 6, 8 or 12 months of use from a set of
    batteries. One Logitech model, the LX7, claimed that its "automatic
    standby mode extends battery life up to 8 months" and added that it
    has an on/off button for even longer battery life. I don't know if
    its batteries will last more than a couple of weeks if it's heavily
    used, but it sounds promising. And helping to keep this discussion
    on topic was this note on the package: "1000dpi precision technology
    is 2.5 times more responsive than standard optical mice. Delivering
    the precision you need while editing digital photos." :)
    ASAAR, Dec 13, 2007
    #12
  13. Wm Watt

    Roger (K8RI) Guest

    On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:37:38 -0800 (PST), Rich <>
    wrote:

    >On Dec 7, 10:02 am, Wm Watt <> wrote:
    >> I had it in my pocket to keep it warm but when I took it out and tried
    >> using shutter delay a couple of times in succession it died, or at
    >> least the AAA alkaline battery died. Do other people have this
    >> proble? What is the effective temperature range for digital cameras?
    >> Thanks.

    >
    >Batteries tend to fail below freezing, their energy drops fast. They
    >suggest keeping the battery in your pocket and putting it into the
    >camera when you need it. Carry two sets.
    >Also, cameras exposed to sub-freezing temps and brought inside
    >uncovered can develop condensation on the inside, sometimes right on
    >the sensor.


    Mine have given no trouble from being left in the car overnight and we
    see temps in the low teens to single digits around here. Sub zero
    used to be common. I don't think it's been that cold up here in at
    least 10 years.

    Roger (K8RI)
    Roger (K8RI), Dec 13, 2007
    #13
  14. Wm Watt

    John Turco Guest

    ASAAR wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:33:52 -0600, John Turco wrote:
    >
    > > I wonder whether these lithiums would be useful, in devices other than
    > > digital cameras? Neither of my cordless mouses - Microsoft "IntelliPoint
    > > Explorer" and A4 Tech "Office 8K" - has ever given me much more than
    > > a couple of weeks, on a set of AA cells. (The former can't even take
    > > rechargeables, in fact.)

    >
    > They'd probably work, but as the mice are low power devices, they
    > won't last substantially longer than alkaline batteries. If I
    > recall correctly, lithium AAA batteries didn't quite provide double
    > the battery life of alkalines used in Palm III PDAs, where alkalines
    > generally lasted between 40 and 50 hours per pair.
    >
    > > Hence, though I'm able to put Ni-MH batteries in the Office 8K, needing
    > > to swap them in and out, so often, gets to be a real drag!

    >
    > Here's a "get rich" idea for you to patent - a slow charging dock
    > for cordless mice! :)



    Hello, ASAAR:

    Been there, done that. <g> Used a "Medion" 5-button, RF (wireless)
    optical mouse, with its own receiver/charger base unit, for about
    a year and a half. Then, suddenly, it began acting goofy and I
    just decided to retire it.

    My next cordless puppy was the IntelliPoint Explorer, which is a
    much better and far more rugged device. Didn't enjoy feeding it
    new alkalines, twice a month, alas.

    Incidentally, I bought the Medion at the local Aldi supermarket.
    I guess a grocery store isn't the best place to find computer
    peripherals, eh? :p


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
    John Turco, Dec 13, 2007
    #14
  15. Wm Watt

    Wm Watt Guest

    Thanks for all the information.
    It's a small keychain camera I was carrying in my pocket for fun.
    Have decided to put it away until spring.
    In my area Lithium batteries look better technically but not
    economically.
    I can get 2 Panasonic Alkkaline AAA batteries at the dollar store
    or 4 Lithium for $16 at the electronics store. Lithium may last
    7 times longer but they would cost me 8 times as much so it's a
    wash.
    I keep a flashlight in the glove box in the car all year 'round and
    replace the
    batteries once a year. Batteries actually last longer in freezing
    temperatures
    when not in use because they drain slower when cold. I keep spare
    batteries in
    the refridgerator for that reason.
    I suspect there is something about the way digital cameras use energy
    that drains batteries, maybe they have to build up a charge quickly on
    a capacitor to take the photo, like on a battery operated flash. The
    single AAA battery only has 1.5 volts which probably isn't enough to
    operate the light gathering device without boosing the voltage with a
    capacitor or some electonics thingy. On this camera as soon as the
    battery voltage drops below 1.5 the camera no longer works. I've
    tested it with a volt meter. So the batteries don't last long even in
    warm temeratures. I do carry the battery separately until I want to
    take a photo, and transfer the camera memory to the computer as soon
    as I get home from my walk. That really prolongs battery life. Also
    not taking moe than 4-5 photos before transferring to the computer.
    The camera's memory capacity is 12 photos.

    Thanks again. The www.batterydata.com website was very interesting.
    Wm Watt, Dec 13, 2007
    #15
  16. Wm Watt

    John Turco Guest

    ASAAR wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 08:33:52 -0600, John Turco wrote:
    >
    > > I wonder whether these lithiums would be useful, in devices other than
    > > digital cameras? Neither of my cordless mouses - Microsoft "IntelliPoint
    > > Explorer" and A4 Tech "Office 8K" - has ever given me much more than
    > > a couple of weeks, on a set of AA cells. (The former can't even take
    > > rechargeables, in fact.)
    > >
    > > Hence, though I'm able to put Ni-MH batteries in the Office 8K, needing
    > > to swap them in and out, so often, gets to be a real drag!

    >
    > Update - I was in Staples yesterday and saw a slew of 'em from
    > Microsoft and Logitech. Some had no battery life figures on the
    > box. Others said "up to" 6, 8 or 12 months of use from a set of
    > batteries. One Logitech model, the LX7, claimed that its "automatic
    > standby mode extends battery life up to 8 months" and added that it
    > has an on/off button for even longer battery life. I don't know if
    > its batteries will last more than a couple of weeks if it's heavily
    > used, but it sounds promising.


    Hello, ASAAR:

    The Office 8K also happens to have an on/off switch, which I often
    use. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to prolong the batteries, to
    any great degree.

    > And helping to keep this discussion on topic was this note on the package:
    > "1000dpi precision technology is 2.5 times more responsive than standard
    > optical mice. Delivering the precision you need while editing digital
    > photos." :)


    It's even more topical than you may realize. You see, an optical
    mouse contains an image sensor, as does a digital camera.

    Except, instead of taking ordinary photographs, it captures and
    processes thousands of "snapshots" per second, of the surface on
    which it's being operated; that enables it to control the cursor's
    on-screen movements.


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
    John Turco, Dec 15, 2007
    #16
  17. Wm Watt

    John Turco Guest

    Wm Watt wrote:
    >
    > Thanks for all the information.
    > It's a small keychain camera I was carrying in my pocket for fun.
    > Have decided to put it away until spring.
    > In my area Lithium batteries look better technically but not
    > economically.


    <heavily edited for brevity>

    Hello,

    I own several keychain digicams, too. They all have one component in
    common: SDRAM.

    That's what computers employ, for their system RAM. Trouble is, SDRAM
    must be continually powered, in order to retain its memory -- which is
    why the little "keycams" are such notorious energy hogs, alas.

    Thus, it's always best to transfer the images to your PC as quickly as
    possible, and also to remove the battery, when the camera isn't in use.

    By the way, my VistaQuest VQ1005 (1.3 megapixel) is unusual, among these
    various keycams. It features an SD slot, besides its own internal SDRAM.

    Therefore, pictures stored on the removable card won't be automatically
    erased, even if the VQ1005's AAA cell dies; it only cost me $19.96 USD,
    at Wal-Mart, in October of 2006.

    Good luck!


    Cordially,
    John Turco <>
    John Turco, Dec 15, 2007
    #17
  18. Wm Watt

    Allen Guest

    John Turco wrote:
    > ASAAR wrote:
    >
    > <heavily edited for brevity>
    >
    >> Lithium batteries are more expensive than alkalines, but they have an
    >> another advantage in that they last much longer, usually providing from
    >> 200% to 400% more shots per set.

    >
    >
    > Hello, ASAAR:
    >
    > I wonder whether these lithiums would be useful, in devices other than
    > digital cameras? Neither of my cordless mouses - Microsoft "IntelliPoint
    > Explorer" and A4 Tech "Office 8K" - has ever given me much more than
    > a couple of weeks, on a set of AA cells. (The former can't even take
    > rechargeables, in fact.)
    >
    > Hence, though I'm able to put Ni-MH batteries in the Office 8K, needing
    > to swap them in and out, so often, gets to be a real drag!
    >
    >
    > Cordially,
    > John Turco <>


    I have a Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0, which came packaged with
    a wireless KB, as I recall was the "4000" set. I use regular alkalines
    and get about 4 months out of a set of two batteries. However, I put a
    set of lithiums in it and they lasted less than the average time for
    alkalines, reason unknown; perhaps it was a set I had removed from some
    other device and failed to discard them. The keyboard batteries last
    more like 8 months. I wonder why you mice go through batteries so fast;
    perhaps the receiver is in a bad location, requiring more power to
    communicate. Note that this is strictly s WAG, but it might be
    worthwhile moving the receiver to see if it helps. Incidentally, this
    subject arose in microsoft.public.windowsxp.general recently and the
    thread showed wildly variable results among posters. You might Google
    that ng and look at that thread (perhaps 2 or 3 weeks ago) for possible
    clues. That is a very, very busy ng, and it might help to search on
    "Allen", as I posted a couple of times though I seldom post anything to
    that ng. Good luck.
    Allen
    Allen, Dec 15, 2007
    #18
  19. Wm Watt

    ASAAR Guest

    On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:15:48 -0600, Allen wrote:

    > I have a Microsoft Wireless Optical Mouse 2.0, which came packaged with
    > a wireless KB, as I recall was the "4000" set. I use regular alkalines
    > and get about 4 months out of a set of two batteries. However, I put a
    > set of lithiums in it and they lasted less than the average time for
    > alkalines, reason unknown; perhaps it was a set I had removed from some
    > other device and failed to discard them.


    Maybe, maybe not. According to data sheets, lithium batteries
    have approximately the same capacity as alkalines when used at very
    low currents, about 3,000 mAh for AA cells. So for devices such as
    mice, smoke detectors, clocks, etc., they won't last appreciably
    longer but will cost far more. It's only when the current
    increases, as in radios, cameras and most anything using a backlit
    LCD screen, for example, that lithiums do much better, since at
    increased current rates their capacities drop only slightly, but
    alkaline mAh ratings will drop substantially below their low current
    capacities, to 1/2, 1/3 or less.


    > I wonder why you mice go through batteries so fast;
    > perhaps the receiver is in a bad location, requiring more power to
    > communicate. Note that this is strictly s WAG, but it might be
    > worthwhile moving the receiver to see if it helps.


    It's a reasonable guess. Although I don't expect DR communications
    (digital rodent) to be very sophisticated because it wouldn't
    necessarily return much for the investment, it would be nice if they
    could use error detection and correction to adjust the transmitting
    power, using just enough to communicate reliably, making adjustments
    over time as necessary. As with my previous "charging cradle) idea,
    this feature may already be in use, but I'm unaware of it.
    ASAAR, Dec 15, 2007
    #19
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