iTunes Music Issues

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by ckozicki@snet.net, Jun 16, 2012.

  1. Guest

    FORGIVE ME FOR YELLING BUT I AM TIRED OF THIS!!!

    Ever since last August, when I installed iTunes and purchased an iPod Touch, the following have been happening:

    -Some songs have, over the last 10 months, suddenly become shortened and cut off suddenly in the middle. The amount remaining varies, from :30sec to 3minutes.

    -Some songs have disappeared entirely since installing iTunes!

    Background: I have folders set up specifically for my iPod - for music, pictures, video, etc. They comprise the "image" for that iPod, if you will. Files are loaded into iTunes from NOWHERE ELSE but those folders, and are then synced to the iPod. Actually, I do "manual management" of my iPod, because of what Syncing has done in the past.

    What happens is that I notice a song playing on my iPod suddenly ends - abrubtly - 1 minute, two minutes, three min, whatever, into the song! I look at the length on the display and sure enough, it's been truncated. I look in iTunes - same thing. I go to the aforementioned folders on my PC, the song is shortened there too. Even on my portable harddrive backup!

    I have posted these problems to various newsgroups and to https://discussions.apple.com/community/ipod (which is sanctioned by Cupertino itself and even THEY can't explain or help with what I'm going through!!)

    Does ANYONE HERE know what the hell is going with my music collection before it is completely compromised or disappears??? Some have suggested that iTunes is performing DRM checkups on stuff I import to it which might be affecting my music. I don't believe it because it's happening to mp3 files ofrecordings I've made in my own HOUSE - not just mp3s I've downloaded.


    ????

    -ChrisCoaster
     
    , Jun 16, 2012
    #1
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  2. - Bobb - Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    FORGIVE ME FOR YELLING BUT I AM TIRED OF THIS!!!

    Ever since last August, when I installed iTunes and purchased an iPod Touch,
    the following have been happening:

    -Some songs have, over the last 10 months, suddenly become shortened and cut
    off suddenly in the middle. The amount remaining varies, from :30sec to
    3minutes.

    -Some songs have disappeared entirely since installing iTunes!

    Background: I have folders set up specifically for my iPod - for music,
    pictures, video, etc. They comprise the "image" for that iPod, if you will.
    Files are loaded into iTunes from NOWHERE ELSE but those folders, and are
    then synced to the iPod. Actually, I do "manual management" of my iPod,
    because of what Syncing has done in the past.

    What happens is that I notice a song playing on my iPod suddenly ends -
    abrubtly - 1 minute, two minutes, three min, whatever, into the song! I
    look at the length on the display and sure enough, it's been truncated. I
    look in iTunes - same thing. I go to the aforementioned folders on my PC,
    the song is shortened there too. Even on my portable harddrive backup!

    I have posted these problems to various newsgroups and to
    https://discussions.apple.com/community/ipod (which is sanctioned by
    Cupertino itself and even THEY can't explain or help with what I'm going
    through!!)

    Does ANYONE HERE know what the hell is going with my music collection before
    it is completely compromised or disappears??? Some have suggested that
    iTunes is performing DRM checkups on stuff I import to it which might be
    affecting my music. I don't believe it because it's happening to mp3 files
    of recordings I've made in my own HOUSE - not just mp3s I've downloaded.

    -ChrisCoaster
    ===========================================
    Lots of questions / confirmations:

    The backups are bad too - on an external drive ???
    Corrupted songs are both downloaded/store-bought as well as your own mp3's ?

    With iPod disconnected are the songs OK on PC ? when viewed from ITunes.
    How about not thru iTunes ? Are the mp3's OK ?
    Hook up the external drive to another pc - ignore iTunes - just open the
    folders - play with WMP - are the files , sizes, mod dates ok ?
    If that second PC has iTunes how are the files on PC #2 ?
    If the external drive files were not 'bad' on PC2, the files pointing to
    them must be bad. The iPod doesn't write to the drive except via PC/ The
    iPod can't truncate the files that were on the hard drive - it's at home,
    right so it's their pointers in iTunes that are bad. ( only going 53 sectors
    from start rather than 72 for example ).

    If the iPod were a disk drive I'd say your disk is failing. Since memory in
    there I'd say the memory is failing - messing the directory structure
    associated with your files.

    Have you wiped/reinstalled the software on the iPod ?
     
    - Bobb -, Jun 16, 2012
    #2
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  3. Guest


    >
    > -ChrisCoaster
    > ===========================================
    > Lots of questions / confirmations:
    >
    > The backups are bad too - on an external drive ???
    > Corrupted songs are both downloaded/store-bought as well as your own mp3's ?
    >
    > With iPod disconnected are the songs OK on PC ? when viewed from ITunes.
    > How about not thru iTunes ? Are the mp3's OK ?
    > Hook up the external drive to another pc - ignore iTunes - just open the
    > folders - play with WMP - are the files , sizes, mod dates ok ?
    > If that second PC has iTunes how are the files on PC #2 ?
    > If the external drive files were not 'bad' on PC2, the files pointing to
    > them must be bad. The iPod doesn't write to the drive except via PC/ The
    > iPod can't truncate the files that were on the hard drive - it's at home,
    > right so it's their pointers in iTunes that are bad. ( only going 53 sectors
    > from start rather than 72 for example ).
    >
    > If the iPod were a disk drive I'd say your disk is failing. Since memory in
    > there I'd say the memory is failing - messing the directory structure
    > associated with your files.
    >
    > Have you wiped/reinstalled the software on the iPod ?

    ____________________________

    Let me explain as best as possible:

    It happens at random, from 1 to 3 songs a month. Either song will be shortened (for example Original length = 4:47, truncated length suddenly 2:30 or even :30sec!) or disappear completely from the iPod, iTunes and the C:/source folder. All of a sudden, "Stairway To Heaven" is only 3min long!

    Played in WMP, Real Player, song is still truncated.

    I have not had the chance/time to test it out on another PC.


    iPod Touch has crashed twice since I owned it - once in April and two weeksago. It has been since restored and otherwise works OK.

    I have over 2,000 songs and may have to back them all up to CDs - somethingI'm not exactly looking fwd to! :)


    -CC
     
    , Jun 16, 2012
    #3
  4. - Bobb - Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...

    >
    > -ChrisCoaster
    > ===========================================
    > Lots of questions / confirmations:
    >
    > The backups are bad too - on an external drive ???
    > Corrupted songs are both downloaded/store-bought as well as your own mp3's
    > ?
    >
    > With iPod disconnected are the songs OK on PC ? when viewed from ITunes.
    > How about not thru iTunes ? Are the mp3's OK ?
    > Hook up the external drive to another pc - ignore iTunes - just open the
    > folders - play with WMP - are the files , sizes, mod dates ok ?
    > If that second PC has iTunes how are the files on PC #2 ?
    > If the external drive files were not 'bad' on PC2, the files pointing to
    > them must be bad. The iPod doesn't write to the drive except via PC/ The
    > iPod can't truncate the files that were on the hard drive - it's at home,
    > right so it's their pointers in iTunes that are bad. ( only going 53
    > sectors
    > from start rather than 72 for example ).
    >
    > If the iPod were a disk drive I'd say your disk is failing. Since memory
    > in
    > there I'd say the memory is failing - messing the directory structure
    > associated with your files.
    >
    > Have you wiped/reinstalled the software on the iPod ?

    ____________________________

    Let me explain as best as possible:

    It happens at random, from 1 to 3 songs a month. Either song will be
    shortened (for example Original length = 4:47, truncated length suddenly
    2:30 or even :30sec!) or disappear completely from the iPod, iTunes and the
    C:/source folder. All of a sudden, "Stairway To Heaven" is only 3min long!

    Played in WMP, Real Player, song is still truncated.

    I have not had the chance/time to test it out on another PC.


    iPod Touch has crashed twice since I owned it - once in April and two weeks
    ago. It has been since restored and otherwise works OK.

    I have over 2,000 songs and may have to back them all up to CDs - something
    I'm not exactly looking fwd to! :)


    -CC
    ============

    1. If c:\source folder is also bad then Itunes must be sync'ing
    Uncheck that box.

    This corruption occurs when offline, right ? So walking down the beach and
    Stairway to Heaven is fine today but tomorrow is 30 seconds long - NOT
    connected to pc in between ?
    ( Just trying to confirm that the iTouch is the source of corruption.)

    If that's the case then the iTouch is bad ( Yeah thanks for the help) and if
    iTouch software was already wiped/restored and problem continues , it's not
    something that you or I are going to 'fix' - there's a hardware failure.

    BUT by not syncing you can leave the 'good music' on the PC and until
    resolved, whenever you get file corruption on the iTouch, delete the bad
    file and copy from PC to iTouch again.

    2. You DID install latest ITunes, Touch software right ?

    Did you see this ?
    http://support.apple.com/kb/index?p...base.search&locale=en_US&q=iTouch corruption

    "Description: A memory corruption issue exists in WebKit's handling of
    numeric character references. Visiting a maliciously crafted website may
    lead to an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code execution.
    This update addresses the issue through improved handling of numeric
    character references."

    OR
    Issues may occur leading to data corruption or data loss if you regularly
    sync Contacts, Calendars, Notes, or bookmarks between multiple computers
    using iTunes and your iOS device.

    several similar updates, depending upon iTouch rev, IOS version etc.

    About the security content of iTunes 10.6
    Impact: A man-in-the-middle attack while browsing the iTunes Store via
    iTunes may lead to an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code
    execution Description: Multiple memory corruption issues existed in WebKit.
    CVE-ID

    http://support.apple.com/kb/index?p...n&src=support_site.kbase.search.searchresults
     
    - Bobb -, Jun 17, 2012
    #4
  5. Guest

    Yes: both iTunes and iOS are the latest. I also have "manually manage" checkmarked in the sync menu under the General Tab for my Touch.

    As far as being "on line" my PC is online whenever I power it up - I have cable internet. The iPod Touch too is always on line - wi fi.

    I could perform a test to see if certain of my songs expire after so many plays or or shorten in length by playing them repeatedly. Again, this is happening to random songs.
     
    , Jun 18, 2012
    #5
  6. Guest

    ADDENDUM to my last reply: The vanishing/shortening of songs occurs regardless of how frequently/infrequently I'm hooked up to iTunes.

    -CC
     
    , Jun 18, 2012
    #6
  7. - Bobb - Guest

    So that would then definitely in the iTouch - not corrupted as a result of
    interaction with PC/ iTunes , right ? So it then has to be the IPod is
    corrupting iTunes/disk backups right ?
    Regardless of the little box for sync being checked or not.
    Need to isolate each - too many variables now.

    Why do normally hook it up to PC , to recharge or to load new songs ???
    Reason I ask - I have IPod and all PC music is on it , so I never NEED to
    hook it up to PC.
    BUT 99% of my music is from my own mp3 library, not iTunes store. I only use
    ITunes a few times per year - after buying CD/DVD, updating my mp3 library
    if I want the album on IPod I use iTunes. The rest of the time I use
    MusicMatch to listen to music on pc.

    If you are normally not changing music , buy a USB car charger/ AC adapter
    and recharge IPod that way. If after a month or two of THAT you have no
    corruption, you've learned something. If that's acceptable, great - the
    source of corruption is PC .

    If that fails ( as it sounds it might/should) then the ITouch itself has a
    problem and you need IPod advice ... are there logs to be viewed to help
    with troubleshooting, might it be a power supply hiccup , a failing memory
    chip, etc. For that I'd find an IPod forum to get advice of those more
    knowledgeable about that.

    Good luck.



    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > ADDENDUM to my last reply: The vanishing/shortening of songs occurs
    > regardless of how frequently/infrequently I'm hooked up to iTunes.
    >
    > -CC
     
    - Bobb -, Jun 18, 2012
    #7
  8. Guest

    On Monday, June 18, 2012 8:48:20 AM UTC-4, - Bobb - wrote:
    > So that would then definitely in the iTouch - not corrupted as a result of
    > interaction with PC/ iTunes , right ? So it then has to be the IPod is
    > corrupting iTunes/disk backups right ?
    > Regardless of the little box for sync being checked or not.
    > Need to isolate each - too many variables now.
    >
    > Why do normally hook it up to PC , to recharge or to load new songs ???
    > Reason I ask - I have IPod and all PC music is on it , so I never NEED to
    > hook it up to PC.
    > BUT 99% of my music is from my own mp3 library, not iTunes store. I only use
    > ITunes a few times per year - after buying CD/DVD, updating my mp3 library
    > if I want the album on IPod I use iTunes. The rest of the time I use
    > MusicMatch to listen to music on pc.
    >
    > If you are normally not changing music , buy a USB car charger/ AC adapter
    > and recharge IPod that way. If after a month or two of THAT you have no
    > corruption, you've learned something. If that's acceptable, great - the
    > source of corruption is PC .
    >
    > If that fails ( as it sounds it might/should) then the ITouch itself has a
    > problem and you need IPod advice ... are there logs to be viewed to help
    > with troubleshooting, might it be a power supply hiccup , a failing memory
    > chip, etc. For that I'd find an IPod forum to get advice of those more
    > knowledgeable about that.
    >
    > Good luck.
    >
    >
    >
    > <net> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > ADDENDUM to my last reply: The vanishing/shortening of songs occurs
    > > regardless of how frequently/infrequently I'm hooked up to iTunes.

    _____________________________________

    Thanks for the suggs, see my inserts below:


    Bobb sez:
    So that would then definitely in the iTouch - not corrupted as a result of
    interaction with PC/ iTunes , right ? So it then has to be the IPod is
    corrupting iTunes/disk backups right ?
    Regardless of the little box for sync being checked or not.
    Need to isolate each - too many variables now.

    Why do normally hook it up to PC , to recharge or to load new songs ???
    Reason I ask - I have IPod and all PC music is on it , so I never NEED to
    hook it up to PC.
    _______________
    ChrisCoaster: I Hook up to PC ONLY when adding/replacing songs, adding photos, vids, etc.
    _________________
    BUT 99% of my music is from my own mp3 library, not iTunes store.
    ____________
    Coaster: Same here. :) Most of my stuff is CD rips, Amazon, home-produced, etc.
    _____________

    I only use
    ITunes a few times per year - after buying CD/DVD, updating my mp3 library
    if I want the album on IPod I use iTunes. The rest of the time I use
    MusicMatch to listen to music on pc.

    If you are normally not changing music , buy a USB car charger/ AC adapter
    and recharge IPod that way. If after a month or two of THAT you have no
    corruption, you've learned something. If that's acceptable, great - the
    source of corruption is PC .
    __________________
    Coaster: http://www.popgadget.net/images/charger-cropped.jpg - I never use my PC to charge anything.
    ___________________
    If that fails ( as it sounds it might/should) then the ITouch itself has a
    problem and you need IPod advice ... are there logs to be viewed to help
    with troubleshooting, might it be a power supply hiccup , a failing memory
    chip, etc. For that I'd find an IPod forum to get advice of those more
    knowledgeable about that.
    ___________________
    This happened also with my Sandisk Sansa View - but not as often! Maybe 1-2x a month.
    ____________________

    Good luck.
     
    , Jun 18, 2012
    #8
  9. - Bobb - Guest

    top-answer:

    If "This happened also with my Sandisk Sansa View - but not as often!
    Maybe 1-2x a month", that was an important thing to discuss up front. You
    say that it's not PC and not hardware, then it must a virus or lunar high
    tide/ planet alignment.
    There's something missing here. I don't understand how:
    IF you don't run iTunes, and the iTouch (which generation?) and NOW the
    Sandisk don't regularly interface with PC : HOW are the songs being erased
    on both ? Also on your external drive at the same time as IPod ???

    Has music EVER been corrupted on PC, HDD and been good on Itouch , Sensa ?
    When corrupt on PC /external drive - what does event log show ?

    If I follow what you're saying, an example of my thought process:
    given:
    1. You restored Itouch to factory
    2. You wiped/reinstalled ITunes
    and files get corrupted on PC , external drive, IPod and Sensa
    and:
    If YOU are in Vegas for a month and 2 songs get corrupted, are you saying
    that if you called home and had a friend take your external drive to his
    house the same 2 songs would be corrupted ?? Or they would be OK under WMP
    on his PC ? I know you haven't tried that, but THAT is the next step - what
    is the first SOURCE of the corruption ? However inconvenient, you need to
    break the connection until it burps - then with no connection of the bad
    device, check the other device and the PC/external drive.

    You need to see the problem and chart when/where it occurs and on which
    device. I don't think you'll find that all devices go bad if unconnected.

    If they do - check to see if your house was built over some ancient burial
    ground.

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Monday, June 18, 2012 8:48:20 AM UTC-4, - Bobb - wrote:
    >> So that would then definitely in the iTouch - not corrupted as a result
    >> of
    >> interaction with PC/ iTunes , right ? So it then has to be the IPod is
    >> corrupting iTunes/disk backups right ?
    >> Regardless of the little box for sync being checked or not.
    >> Need to isolate each - too many variables now.
    >>
    >> Why do normally hook it up to PC , to recharge or to load new songs ???
    >> Reason I ask - I have IPod and all PC music is on it , so I never NEED to
    >> hook it up to PC.
    >> BUT 99% of my music is from my own mp3 library, not iTunes store. I only
    >> use
    >> ITunes a few times per year - after buying CD/DVD, updating my mp3
    >> library
    >> if I want the album on IPod I use iTunes. The rest of the time I use
    >> MusicMatch to listen to music on pc.
    >>
    >> If you are normally not changing music , buy a USB car charger/ AC
    >> adapter
    >> and recharge IPod that way. If after a month or two of THAT you have no
    >> corruption, you've learned something. If that's acceptable, great - the
    >> source of corruption is PC .
    >>
    >> If that fails ( as it sounds it might/should) then the ITouch itself has
    >> a
    >> problem and you need IPod advice ... are there logs to be viewed to help
    >> with troubleshooting, might it be a power supply hiccup , a failing
    >> memory
    >> chip, etc. For that I'd find an IPod forum to get advice of those more
    >> knowledgeable about that.
    >>
    >> Good luck.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> <net> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > ADDENDUM to my last reply: The vanishing/shortening of songs occurs
    >> > regardless of how frequently/infrequently I'm hooked up to iTunes.

    > _____________________________________
    >
    > Thanks for the suggs, see my inserts below:
    >
    >
    > Bobb sez:
    > So that would then definitely in the iTouch - not corrupted as a result of
    > interaction with PC/ iTunes , right ? So it then has to be the IPod is
    > corrupting iTunes/disk backups right ?
    > Regardless of the little box for sync being checked or not.
    > Need to isolate each - too many variables now.
    >
    > Why do normally hook it up to PC , to recharge or to load new songs ???
    > Reason I ask - I have IPod and all PC music is on it , so I never NEED to
    > hook it up to PC.
    > _______________
    > ChrisCoaster: I Hook up to PC ONLY when adding/replacing songs, adding
    > photos, vids, etc.
    > _________________
    > BUT 99% of my music is from my own mp3 library, not iTunes store.
    > ____________
    > Coaster: Same here. :) Most of my stuff is CD rips, Amazon,
    > home-produced, etc.
    > _____________
    >
    > I only use
    > ITunes a few times per year - after buying CD/DVD, updating my mp3 library
    > if I want the album on IPod I use iTunes. The rest of the time I use
    > MusicMatch to listen to music on pc.
    >
    > If you are normally not changing music , buy a USB car charger/ AC
    > adapter
    > and recharge IPod that way. If after a month or two of THAT you have no
    > corruption, you've learned something. If that's acceptable, great - the
    > source of corruption is PC .
    > __________________
    > Coaster: http://www.popgadget.net/images/charger-cropped.jpg - I never
    > use my PC to charge anything.
    > ___________________
    > If that fails ( as it sounds it might/should) then the ITouch itself has a
    > problem and you need IPod advice ... are there logs to be viewed to help
    > with troubleshooting, might it be a power supply hiccup , a failing memory
    > chip, etc. For that I'd find an IPod forum to get advice of those more
    > knowledgeable about that.
    > ___________________
    > This happened also with my Sandisk Sansa View - but not as often! Maybe
    > 1-2x a month.
    > ____________________
    >
    > Good luck.
    >
     
    - Bobb -, Jun 18, 2012
    #9
  10. Guest

    Bobb I know it's been frustrating but thanks for your very good tips so far.

    I just have not had the time to track exactly when this song shortening/disappearance has gone on.

    And I just thought of this(although it might not apply as it has happened to home-produced audio files as well): Is it possible to encode a MP3 or other file to "expire" or become a :30sec preview after a certain length of time or #of plays?

    And as far as dedicated Apple/iPod forums go, they are mostly end users with no more understanding of what's going on than those of us it is happening to! :(
     
    , Jun 19, 2012
    #10
  11. Guest

    On Monday, June 18, 2012 5:09:59 PM UTC-4, - Bobb - wrote:
    > top-answer:
    >
    > If "This happened also with my Sandisk Sansa View - but not as often!
    > Maybe 1-2x a month", that was an important thing to discuss up front. You
    > say that it's not PC and not hardware,

    ____________________
    Sorry, I should have brought up my pre-iPod history! LOL.

    But seriously Bob, I didn't imply that it was or wasn't my PC, or was or wasn't my media players or anything. I don't know what's causing it!

    By the way, I tried replacing the shortened songs by e-mailing them from my wife's laptop(which I almost never use) to my Yahoo! mail acct. Lo and behold, the songs were shortened from there too!

    I went and played the file on her laptop and sure enough, it played out to :50 sec or whatever it was truncated to.

    WEIRD.

    -CC
     
    , Jun 19, 2012
    #11
  12. tony sayer Guest

    In article <>,
    scribeth thus
    >On Monday, June 18, 2012 5:09:59 PM UTC-4, - Bobb - wrote:
    >> top-answer:
    >>
    >> If "This happened also with my Sandisk Sansa View - but not as often!
    >> Maybe 1-2x a month", that was an important thing to discuss up front. You
    >> say that it's not PC and not hardware,

    >____________________
    >Sorry, I should have brought up my pre-iPod history! LOL.
    >
    >But seriously Bob, I didn't imply that it was or wasn't my PC, or was or wasn't
    >my media players or anything. I don't know what's causing it!
    >
    >By the way, I tried replacing the shortened songs by e-mailing them from my
    >wife's laptop(which I almost never use) to my Yahoo! mail acct. Lo and behold,
    >the songs were shortened from there too!
    >
    >I went and played the file on her laptop and sure enough, it played out to :50
    >sec or whatever it was truncated to.
    >
    >WEIRD.
    >
    >-CC


    Mail one to me if you want and I'll take a careful look at it with some
    Audio programmes we've got...


    --
    Tony Sayer
     
    tony sayer, Jun 19, 2012
    #12
  13. Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > On Monday, June 18, 2012 5:09:59 PM UTC-4, - Bobb - wrote:
    >> top-answer:
    >>
    >> If "This happened also with my Sandisk Sansa View - but not as often!
    >> Maybe 1-2x a month", that was an important thing to discuss up front. You
    >> say that it's not PC and not hardware,

    > ____________________
    > Sorry, I should have brought up my pre-iPod history! LOL.
    >
    > But seriously Bob, I didn't imply that it was or wasn't my PC, or was or wasn't my media players or anything. I don't know what's causing it!
    >
    > By the way, I tried replacing the shortened songs by e-mailing them from my wife's laptop(which I almost never use) to my Yahoo! mail acct. Lo and behold, the songs were shortened from there too!
    >
    > I went and played the file on her laptop and sure enough, it played out to :50 sec or whatever it was truncated to.
    >
    > WEIRD.
    >
    > -CC


    If you run the titles of those songs, on a search engine,
    and include the search term "DRM", how are those songs
    normally protected ?

    Are they "watermarked" perhaps ? It's possible to add
    a noise pattern to music, such that a suitably equipped
    DRM-checking piece of audio software, will conclude it
    shouldn't have been ripped. And even if you edit the
    audio, and add some random noise of your own, the
    watermarking scheme is designed to be persistent
    enough to still be detected. They can use a pattern
    which is resilient to added noise, so the file doesn't
    have to be byte-for-byte identical.

    I think if the duration of the shortened tracks, happens
    to match the "preview" time the vendor applies to
    music samples, you've got a well formulated theory
    as to why it might be happening. Now, all you need,
    is to figure out the "under the bonnet" stuff, as
    to how that music might have been protected in the
    first place. Maybe some scheme originally applied,
    happens to match what Apple uses to mark preview
    material. (An accidental DRM collision. Apple using
    the same scheme, as some other music seller like Sony.)

    I don't know anything about watermarking, or how you
    detect it. It's only if there was a stink about it,
    when some content was put out for sale, that it might
    have been discussed, named and shamed.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 19, 2012
    #13
  14. Guest

    On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:33:44 AM UTC-4, Paul wrote:

    >
    > If you run the titles of those songs, on a search engine,
    > and include the search term "DRM", how are those songs
    > normally protected ?
    >
    > Are they "watermarked" perhaps ? It's possible to add
    > a noise pattern to music, such that a suitably equipped
    > DRM-checking piece of audio software, will conclude it
    > shouldn't have been ripped. And even if you edit the
    > audio, and add some random noise of your own, the
    > watermarking scheme is designed to be persistent
    > enough to still be detected. They can use a pattern
    > which is resilient to added noise, so the file doesn't
    > have to be byte-for-byte identical.
    >
    > I think if the duration of the shortened tracks, happens
    > to match the "preview" time the vendor applies to
    > music samples, you've got a well formulated theory
    > as to why it might be happening. Now, all you need,
    > is to figure out the "under the bonnet" stuff, as
    > to how that music might have been protected in the
    > first place. Maybe some scheme originally applied,
    > happens to match what Apple uses to mark preview
    > material. (An accidental DRM collision. Apple using
    > the same scheme, as some other music seller like Sony.)
    >
    > I don't know anything about watermarking, or how you
    > detect it. It's only if there was a stink about it,
    > when some content was put out for sale, that it might
    > have been discussed, named and shamed.
    >
    > Paul

    _______
    Hi Paul!

    Here is link to search results for "billie jean" and "drm" (Michael Jackson).

    https://www.google.com/search?q="sk....,cf.osb&fp=1a9fba34276492c0&biw=1600&bih=729

    I don't know if the link will show but it returned a bunch of files of billie jean containing "DRM" in the title.

    -ChrisCoaster
     
    , Jun 19, 2012
    #14
  15. Paul Guest

    wrote:
    > On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 11:33:44 AM UTC-4, Paul wrote:
    >
    >> If you run the titles of those songs, on a search engine,
    >> and include the search term "DRM", how are those songs
    >> normally protected ?
    >>
    >> Are they "watermarked" perhaps ? It's possible to add
    >> a noise pattern to music, such that a suitably equipped
    >> DRM-checking piece of audio software, will conclude it
    >> shouldn't have been ripped. And even if you edit the
    >> audio, and add some random noise of your own, the
    >> watermarking scheme is designed to be persistent
    >> enough to still be detected. They can use a pattern
    >> which is resilient to added noise, so the file doesn't
    >> have to be byte-for-byte identical.
    >>
    >> I think if the duration of the shortened tracks, happens
    >> to match the "preview" time the vendor applies to
    >> music samples, you've got a well formulated theory
    >> as to why it might be happening. Now, all you need,
    >> is to figure out the "under the bonnet" stuff, as
    >> to how that music might have been protected in the
    >> first place. Maybe some scheme originally applied,
    >> happens to match what Apple uses to mark preview
    >> material. (An accidental DRM collision. Apple using
    >> the same scheme, as some other music seller like Sony.)
    >>
    >> I don't know anything about watermarking, or how you
    >> detect it. It's only if there was a stink about it,
    >> when some content was put out for sale, that it might
    >> have been discussed, named and shamed.
    >>
    >> Paul

    > _______
    > Hi Paul!
    >
    > Here is link to search results for "billie jean" and "drm" (Michael Jackson).
    >
    > https://www.google.com/search?q="sk....,cf.osb&fp=1a9fba34276492c0&biw=1600&bih=729
    >
    > I don't know if the link will show but it returned a bunch of files of billie jean containing "DRM" in the title.
    >
    > -ChrisCoaster
    >


    This is a vague suggestion of how it's done.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_watermark_detection

    What's needed, is a tool that can check for it. (Which is
    different than searching for a tool to remove it, which
    might not work as well.)

    While this thread isn't a match for your problem, you
    can see this topic provides endless fun.

    http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/751985

    I was thinking your observation was a good one, that the
    play time of the damaged tracks, seems to match the
    "Preview" time limit instituted by Apple for material
    previewed on the Apple Store. Then it's a question of
    how the tracks, are being mis-identified as some
    sort of Preview.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Jun 19, 2012
    #15
  16. - Bobb - Guest

    "Paul" <> wrote in message
    news:jrqfi0$l39$...
    > wrote:
    > I was thinking your observation was a good one, that the
    > play time of the damaged tracks, seems to match the
    > "Preview" time limit instituted by Apple for material
    > previewed on the Apple Store. Then it's a question of
    > how the tracks, are being mis-identified as some
    > sort of Preview.
    >
    > Paul


    The issue for me STILL is the external backup, including music that HE
    **recorded** as mp3s. (a few days ago that was reported - right?).
    And things had been fine for a long time previous to this, right ?

    All along the external drive was in a vault while music files were flaky -
    then when hooked up the external drive is ALSO corrupted
    If that IS correct and one device made in China, one in Korea, both are
    flaky and they both connect occasionally to HIS pc. My first SWAG is ... his
    pc/iTunes. That's why I say to isolate it.

    If media/date related, can you CAUSE file corruption on hard drive by
    changing system date - reboot - hook up drive ?

    Plan X: If like my external drives, it's easy enough to pick it up/ bring to
    friend's - copy the music to friends' PC and wait. Next time file corruption
    on iPod, call friend - is that song ok on drive ?
    YES = issue for you ( since disk is ok on his pc and same date)
    NO = file specific issue
    Then - is it store-bought ? or recorded by you ?

    signing off . good luck
     
    - Bobb -, Jun 20, 2012
    #16
  17. Guest

    On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:46:26 AM UTC-4, - Bobb - wrote:

    >
    > The issue for me STILL is the external backup, including music that HE
    > **recorded** as mp3s. (a few days ago that was reported - right?).
    > And things had been fine for a long time previous to this, right ?
    >
    > All along the external drive was in a vault while music files were flaky -
    > then when hooked up the external drive is ALSO corrupted
    > If that IS correct and one device made in China, one in Korea, both are
    > flaky and they both connect occasionally to HIS pc. My first SWAG is ... his
    > pc/iTunes. That's why I say to isolate it.
    >
    > If media/date related, can you CAUSE file corruption on hard drive by
    > changing system date - reboot - hook up drive ?
    >
    > Plan X: If like my external drives, it's easy enough to pick it up/ bring to
    > friend's - copy the music to friends' PC and wait. Next time file corruption
    > on iPod, call friend - is that song ok on drive ?
    > YES = issue for you ( since disk is ok on his pc and same date)
    > NO = file specific issue
    > Then - is it store-bought ? or recorded by you ?
    >
    > signing off . good luck

    ________________

    Just last night:

    I checked a version I remastered of "My Heart Will Go On"(over dynamically-compressed to illustrate what radio does to music) and it was shortened from 4min to 1mi 35sec EVEN IN FOLDERS WHICH DO NOT FEED ITUNES.

    So long & short these songs are just shortening, regardless of where I got them from or self-created, and regardless of how many times they are played.

    Those are the facts.

    -CC
     
    , Jun 27, 2012
    #17
  18. - Bobb - Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:46:26 AM UTC-4, - Bobb - wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> The issue for me STILL is the external backup, including music that HE
    >> **recorded** as mp3s. (a few days ago that was reported - right?).
    >> And things had been fine for a long time previous to this, right ?
    >>
    >> All along the external drive was in a vault while music files were
    >> flaky -
    >> then when hooked up the external drive is ALSO corrupted
    >> If that IS correct and one device made in China, one in Korea, both are
    >> flaky and they both connect occasionally to HIS pc. My first SWAG is ...
    >> his
    >> pc/iTunes. That's why I say to isolate it.
    >>
    >> If media/date related, can you CAUSE file corruption on hard drive by
    >> changing system date - reboot - hook up drive ?
    >>
    >> Plan X: If like my external drives, it's easy enough to pick it up/ bring
    >> to
    >> friend's - copy the music to friends' PC and wait. Next time file
    >> corruption
    >> on iPod, call friend - is that song ok on drive ?
    >> YES = issue for you ( since disk is ok on his pc and same date)
    >> NO = file specific issue
    >> Then - is it store-bought ? or recorded by you ?
    >>
    >> signing off . good luck

    > ________________
    >
    > Just last night:
    >
    > I checked a version I remastered of "My Heart Will Go On"(over
    > dynamically-compressed to illustrate what radio does to music) and it was
    > shortened from 4min to 1mi 35sec EVEN IN FOLDERS WHICH DO NOT FEED ITUNES.
    >
    > So long & short these songs are just shortening, regardless of where I got
    > them from or self-created, and regardless of how many times they are
    > played.
    >
    > Those are the facts.
    >
    > -CC
    >


    Only one copy ? Or are both sources corrupted ?
    On portable player or PC ? Does PC hang ?
    I know I've asked before...
    If PC: Nothing in event log ? Scanned for viruses yet ?
    Do you run a Norton/avast/avg type program ? Check log. Perhaps they have
    been infected ?

    Only mp3's ? If only thing in common is file type, do you only use one
    player ?
    Still need to narrow variables. ( I know I'm picky , but for 25 years I
    worked on computer systems and you NEED to eliminate paths of corruption -
    or you're guessing)
    Check settings on bad file - last modified date ?

    If it were me, I would double-check/ Set protection on music folder to read
    only.
    If so and then I needed to create an action plan, I'd uninstall all music
    playing apps ... itunes, wmp,musicmatch,nero / whatever has a link to the
    file extensions you use.
    Run a good registry scrubbing app ( Ccleaner ?) to flush it all out. Reboot.
    Then reinstall only 'one player'.
    Only pieces are now ' the music files' and 'the player'.
    If something TRIES to modify, AV app/ event log will show.
     
    - Bobb -, Jun 28, 2012
    #18
  19. Guest

    No: Frozen PC or iPod.
    Running Vista SP2, knock on wood!

    Yesterday discovered a song that had been shortened by barely 8sec! So theamount of shortening being done is quite random. By the time I discover it - at someone's house with my iPod Touch attempting to impress them with some rare cover of a Bob Dylan song - I've already got egg on my face when the song suddenly "ends" about 15 sec before the official end! smh!
     
    , Jul 7, 2012
    #19
  20. - Bobb - Guest

    Without connecting the Itouch to the PC, on the backup disk - how is the
    file ?

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    No: Frozen PC or iPod.
    Running Vista SP2, knock on wood!

    Yesterday discovered a song that had been shortened by barely 8sec! So the
    amount of shortening being done is quite random. By the time I discover
    it - at someone's house with my iPod Touch attempting to impress them with
    some rare cover of a Bob Dylan song - I've already got egg on my face when
    the song suddenly "ends" about 15 sec before the official end! smh!
     
    - Bobb -, Jul 7, 2012
    #20
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