It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOothan to Office12

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by thing2, Mar 6, 2006.

  1. thing2

    thing2 Guest

    http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html

    Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and 98?

    I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....

    A friend upgraded from 98Mac to 2004mac after telling me the oOoMac I
    put on was not good enough.....so now I get it in the neck over Ofiice
    2004 crashing and not being like 98Mac.....I cant win.....

    ;]

    I also notice some small white box builders incl oOo for free....lets
    see buy a home PC and use oOo for free or spend hundreds getting MS
    Office.....

    Given MS's hype I wonder what % they will loose with this upgrade
    cycle......ie how many people will actually buy/get it...as opposed to
    staying with old MS office's or getting oOo.....

    regards

    thing
     
    thing2, Mar 6, 2006
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. thing2

    MarkH Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    thing2 <> wrote in news:uhhud3-msu.ln1
    @news.vuw.ac.nz:

    > http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >
    > Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and 98?


    There's an Office 98?

    I don't know of anyone running Office 95, but I have come across plenty of
    customers running Office 97 - and quite happy with it.

    > I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    > claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....


    Better how?

    > Given MS's hype I wonder what % they will loose with this upgrade
    > cycle......ie how many people will actually buy/get it...as opposed to
    > staying with old MS office's or getting oOo.....


    The truth is that to most people oOo is not a consideration. By far the
    greatest rival to the new MS Office will be everyone's existing MS Office.

    For a huge percentage of PC users the features of oOo or Office 97 are more
    than enough for their requirements. Who here can name features on newer
    Office versions that would benefit a fairly average user?

    Of course it could be necessary to use the upgrade to Outlook 98 that MS
    released for free to fix the horrendous bugs in Outlook 97. Then again
    there are many users happy with Outlook Express.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 5-September-05)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Mar 6, 2006
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. thing2

    Peter Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    MarkH wrote:

    > thing2 <> wrote in news:uhhud3-msu.ln1
    > @news.vuw.ac.nz:
    >
    >> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >>
    >> Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and 98?

    >
    > There's an Office 98?


    I think he is referring to the Mac version.

    >
    > I don't know of anyone running Office 95, but I have come across plenty of
    > customers running Office 97 - and quite happy with it.


    Apart from an annoying footnote bug which sometimes throws the footnote to
    the next page. Oo does not have this bug.

    In any case, so what if Oo is '10 years' behind - who needs the bells and
    whistles. In any case who wants to have movies and sound played while
    working with MS proposed 'mprovements'.
     
    Peter, Mar 6, 2006
    #3
  4. In article <>, thing2 <> wrote:
    >http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >
    >Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and 98?
    >
    >I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    >claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....


    I find it ... different. To me OO is more logical ... all the formatting is
    under "format" for example ... you don't have to look elsewhere for 'format
    page'.

    There are things I dislike about both ... but I use little of either's
    capability ... as is the case for most of us I suspect :)


    Bruce

    ----------------------------------------
    I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good
    people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and
    only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

    Lord Vetinari in Guards ! Guards ! - Terry Pratchett

    Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
    (if there were any)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Mar 7, 2006
    #4
  5. thing2

    Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrateto oOo than to Office12

    MarkH wrote:
    > thing2 <> wrote in news:uhhud3-msu.ln1
    > @news.vuw.ac.nz:
    >
    >
    >>http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >>
    >>Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and 98?

    >
    >
    > There's an Office 98?


    Mac Office 98, think there was a PC 98 one but was not common, not sure.

    > I don't know of anyone running Office 95, but I have come across plenty of
    > customers running Office 97 - and quite happy with it.
    >
    >
    >>I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    >>claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....

    >
    >
    > Better how?


    More stable, especially Excel and able to read later Office documents
    without issue.

    >>Given MS's hype I wonder what % they will loose with this upgrade
    >>cycle......ie how many people will actually buy/get it...as opposed to
    >>staying with old MS office's or getting oOo.....

    >
    >
    > The truth is that to most people oOo is not a consideration.


    Probably a true preception, but in reality there is no reason why not.

    By far the
    > greatest rival to the new MS Office will be everyone's existing MS Office.


    Yes and no. By no I mean as the older Offices age people will be forced
    to look at buying a new version, that will cost them lots of $. At
    present I assume Office 2000 can be upgraded to 2004 / 12, but 97?
    probably not so a full retail version...besides which the OS may not
    support it, ie i used to run Office 97 on win2k, will 12 run on win2k?
    probably not...while with oOo you can have your cake and eat it.

    > For a huge percentage of PC users the features of oOo or Office 97 are more
    > than enough for their requirements. Who here can name features on newer
    > Office versions that would benefit a fairly average user?


    I cant think of any, but oOo can open anything so, that is at least one
    advantage, stability is better as well Ive found.

    > Of course it could be necessary to use the upgrade to Outlook 98 that MS
    > released for free to fix the horrendous bugs in Outlook 97. Then again
    > there are many users happy with Outlook Express.


    I would hope most people would not be running an old outlook.....ik.....

    As for Express, swiss cheese comes to mind....

    regards

    Thing
     
    , Mar 7, 2006
    #5
  6. thing2

    David Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrateto oOo than to Office12

    y wrote:
    > MarkH wrote:
    >> thing2 <> wrote in news:uhhud3-msu.ln1
    >> @news.vuw.ac.nz:
    >>
    >>
    >>> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >>>
    >>> Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and 98?

    >>
    >>
    >> There's an Office 98?

    >
    > Mac Office 98, think there was a PC 98 one but was not common, not sure.
    >
    >> I don't know of anyone running Office 95, but I have come across
    >> plenty of customers running Office 97 - and quite happy with it.
    >>
    >>
    >>> I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    >>> claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....

    >>
    >>
    >> Better how?

    >
    > More stable, especially Excel and able to read later Office documents
    > without issue.
    >
    >>> Given MS's hype I wonder what % they will loose with this upgrade
    >>> cycle......ie how many people will actually buy/get it...as opposed
    >>> to staying with old MS office's or getting oOo.....

    >>
    >>
    >> The truth is that to most people oOo is not a consideration.

    >
    > Probably a true preception, but in reality there is no reason why not.
    >
    > By far the
    >> greatest rival to the new MS Office will be everyone's existing MS
    >> Office.

    >
    > Yes and no. By no I mean as the older Offices age people will be forced
    > to look at buying a new version, that will cost them lots of $. At
    > present I assume Office 2000 can be upgraded to 2004 / 12, but 97?
    > probably not so a full retail version...besides which the OS may not
    > support it, ie i used to run Office 97 on win2k, will 12 run on win2k?
    > probably not...while with oOo you can have your cake and eat it.
    >
    >> For a huge percentage of PC users the features of oOo or Office 97 are
    >> more than enough for their requirements. Who here can name features
    >> on newer Office versions that would benefit a fairly average user?

    >
    > I cant think of any, but oOo can open anything so, that is at least one
    > advantage, stability is better as well Ive found.
    >
    >> Of course it could be necessary to use the upgrade to Outlook 98 that
    >> MS released for free to fix the horrendous bugs in Outlook 97. Then
    >> again there are many users happy with Outlook Express.

    >
    > I would hope most people would not be running an old outlook.....ik.....
    >
    > As for Express, swiss cheese comes to mind....
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >


    Just tried oOo, and wasn't so sure about it. Sure, the interface isn't
    as pretty, but I don't mind that. What annoyed me was the general
    sluggishness (Office 2003 is way faster, both to load and to use).
    Certainly a valid alternative to Office, and will surely improve, and I
    would consider using it if I didn't already own Office 2003, but I think
    I'll uninstall it now.

    Speaking of office, does anyone know how to set the default language in
    winword so it sticks? I tried setting it to English NZ many times, and
    pressing "Default", but it still reverts to bastardised US english every
    time I open a new document.
     
    David, Mar 7, 2006
    #6
  7. thing2

    SchoolTech Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrateto oOothan to Office12

    thing2 wrote:
    > http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html


    Probably nonsense, as in, this feature will be optional i.e. the classic
    interface will be available as a configuration option.
     
    SchoolTech, Mar 7, 2006
    #7
  8. Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    >
    > Speaking of office, does anyone know how to set the default language in
    > winword so it sticks? I tried setting it to English NZ many times, and
    > pressing "Default", but it still reverts to bastardised US english every
    > time I open a new document.


    Have you checked your regional and language settings under Control Panel?

    Steve
     
    Stephen Williams, Mar 7, 2006
    #8
  9. thing2

    Chris Hope Guest

    SchoolTech wrote:

    > thing2 wrote:
    >> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html

    >
    > Probably nonsense, as in, this feature will be optional i.e. the
    > classic interface will be available as a configuration option.


    I read a review of MS Office in PC World and they didn't seem to think
    you could revert to the "classic" interface. Interesingly Outlook
    doesn't use the new interface and still uses the old menu driven
    interface.

    --
    Chris Hope | www.electrictoolbox.com | www.linuxcdmall.com
     
    Chris Hope, Mar 7, 2006
    #9
  10. thing2

    EMB Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrateto oOo than to Office12

    thing2 wrote:
    > http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >
    > Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and 98?
    >
    > I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    > claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....


    I've just moved one of my client companies from a mixture of Office
    97/Office 2000 to oOo. Of the 25 users who have migrated I have only
    had complaints from the 2 least computer literate who had rote learnt
    how to drive MS Office rather than actually understanding what they were
    doing.




    --
    EMB
     
    EMB, Mar 7, 2006
    #10
  11. thing2

    David Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrateto oOo than to Office12

    Stephen Williams wrote:
    >> Speaking of office, does anyone know how to set the default language in
    >> winword so it sticks? I tried setting it to English NZ many times, and
    >> pressing "Default", but it still reverts to bastardised US english every
    >> time I open a new document.

    >
    > Have you checked your regional and language settings under Control Panel?
    >
    > Steve
    >
    >


    That did it, thanks. Weird that I should have to poke around in there
    though, after setting timezone, country, language to New Zealand during
    the Windows install.
     
    David, Mar 7, 2006
    #11
  12. thing2

    Alan Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    "thing2" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >
    > Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and
    > 98?
    >
    > I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    > claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....
    >
    > A friend upgraded from 98Mac to 2004mac after telling me the oOoMac
    > I put on was not good enough.....so now I get it in the neck over
    > Ofiice 2004 crashing and not being like 98Mac.....I cant win.....
    >
    > ;]
    >
    > I also notice some small white box builders incl oOo for
    > free....lets see buy a home PC and use oOo for free or spend
    > hundreds getting MS Office.....
    >
    > Given MS's hype I wonder what % they will loose with this upgrade
    > cycle......ie how many people will actually buy/get it...as opposed
    > to staying with old MS office's or getting oOo.....
    >
    > regards
    >
    > thing
    >
    >
    >


    Does anyone know whether OO can understand and run Excel VBA code?

    We are probably mid-level Excel users, so a lot of our spreadsheets
    have some code in them to speed things up and reduce the chance of
    errors (more than just recorded macros).

    I would be interested to see if OO can provide an alternative to
    upgrading from Office 2000 when the time comes, but without support
    for VBA I canont see how we would maintain reasonable productivity
    (without learning a whole new scripting language)?

    Thanks,

    Alan.

    --

    The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
    else associated with me.

    My current valid email address is:



    This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

    It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

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    Alan, Mar 7, 2006
    #12
  13. thing2

    MarkH Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    David <> wrote in
    news:tk9Pf.4484$:

    > Just tried oOo, and wasn't so sure about it. Sure, the interface isn't
    > as pretty, but I don't mind that. What annoyed me was the general
    > sluggishness (Office 2003 is way faster, both to load and to use).
    > Certainly a valid alternative to Office, and will surely improve, and
    > I would consider using it if I didn't already own Office 2003, but I
    > think I'll uninstall it now.


    My experience is the same. oOo seems to be a perfectly good product
    spoiled by very sluggish performance (both the Windows and the Linux
    versions).

    I have used Office 95, 97, 2000, XP and 2003 - all run faster than oOo.

    If the oOo speed can be improved to something similar to MS Office then I
    would have no hesitation in recommending it to others.


    --
    Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
    See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 5-September-05)
    "The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a
    young woman. There was no possible way she could have been mistaken
    for a young man in any language, especially Braille."
    Maskerade
     
    MarkH, Mar 7, 2006
    #13
  14. thing2

    thing2 Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrateto oOo than to Office12

    Alan wrote:
    > "thing2" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >>
    >>Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and
    >>98?
    >>
    >>I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    >>claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....
    >>
    >>A friend upgraded from 98Mac to 2004mac after telling me the oOoMac
    >>I put on was not good enough.....so now I get it in the neck over
    >>Ofiice 2004 crashing and not being like 98Mac.....I cant win.....
    >>
    >>;]
    >>
    >>I also notice some small white box builders incl oOo for
    >>free....lets see buy a home PC and use oOo for free or spend
    >>hundreds getting MS Office.....
    >>
    >>Given MS's hype I wonder what % they will loose with this upgrade
    >>cycle......ie how many people will actually buy/get it...as opposed
    >>to staying with old MS office's or getting oOo.....
    >>
    >>regards
    >>
    >>thing
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    > Does anyone know whether OO can understand and run Excel VBA code?
    >
    > We are probably mid-level Excel users, so a lot of our spreadsheets
    > have some code in them to speed things up and reduce the chance of
    > errors (more than just recorded macros).
    >
    > I would be interested to see if OO can provide an alternative to
    > upgrading from Office 2000 when the time comes, but without support
    > for VBA I canont see how we would maintain reasonable productivity
    > (without learning a whole new scripting language)?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > Alan.
    >


    No VB in oOo.

    Not sure even how long MS will support VB......so you may have to learn
    a new language anyway.

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing2, Mar 7, 2006
    #14
  15. thing2

    thing2 Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrateto oOo than to Office12

    EMB wrote:
    > thing2 wrote:
    >
    >> http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >>
    >> Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97 and 98?
    >>
    >> I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    >> claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....

    >
    >
    > I've just moved one of my client companies from a mixture of Office
    > 97/Office 2000 to oOo. Of the 25 users who have migrated I have only
    > had complaints from the 2 least computer literate who had rote learnt
    > how to drive MS Office rather than actually understanding what they were
    > doing.


    My experience too....the least literate and capable complain the most.
    This also applies to MS Office upgrades so I dont see that there is any
    huge difference myself....

    regards

    Thing
     
    thing2, Mar 7, 2006
    #15
  16. Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 08:33:38 +1300, thing2 wrote:

    > My experience too....the least literate and capable complain the most.


    Aren't those people Micro$oft's target market?


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to Linux,
    and it does all the things that they want."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 7, 2006
    #16
  17. thing2

    Alan Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    "thing2" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Alan wrote:
    >> "thing2" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >>>http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS7262994355.html
    >>>
    >>>Interesting, I wonder how many people are still on Office 95, 97
    >>>and
    >>>98?
    >>>
    >>>I upgraded from 97 to oOo and found it better (dispite MS's recent
    >>>claims that oOo is 10 years behind.....
    >>>
    >>>A friend upgraded from 98Mac to 2004mac after telling me the oOoMac
    >>>I put on was not good enough.....so now I get it in the neck over
    >>>Ofiice 2004 crashing and not being like 98Mac.....I cant win.....
    >>>
    >>>;]
    >>>
    >>>I also notice some small white box builders incl oOo for
    >>>free....lets see buy a home PC and use oOo for free or spend
    >>>hundreds getting MS Office.....
    >>>
    >>>Given MS's hype I wonder what % they will loose with this upgrade
    >>>cycle......ie how many people will actually buy/get it...as opposed
    >>>to staying with old MS office's or getting oOo.....
    >>>
    >>>regards
    >>>
    >>>thing
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Does anyone know whether OO can understand and run Excel VBA code?
    >>
    >> We are probably mid-level Excel users, so a lot of our spreadsheets
    >> have some code in them to speed things up and reduce the chance of
    >> errors (more than just recorded macros).
    >>
    >> I would be interested to see if OO can provide an alternative to
    >> upgrading from Office 2000 when the time comes, but without support
    >> for VBA I canont see how we would maintain reasonable productivity
    >> (without learning a whole new scripting language)?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> Alan.
    >>

    >
    > No VB in oOo.
    >
    > Not sure even how long MS will support VB......so you may have to
    > learn a new language anyway.
    >
    > regards
    >
    > Thing
    >


    My understanding is that it will be fully supported in Office 12 which
    should give us at least five years of being able to use the existing
    VBA we have - after that, who knows what the world will look like!

    We are probably going to stay on Office 9 as ong as we can until
    either MS stop updating for security issues, or we start finding we
    can't open or use files from outside the company, or we are forced to
    upgrade from XP to Vista and find that it isn't able to run Office 9
    (?)

    Does OO have a different scripting language, or does it not support
    automation at this stage?

    Thanks,

    Alan.

    --

    The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
    else associated with me.

    My current valid email address is:



    This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

    It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

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    Alan, Mar 7, 2006
    #17
  18. Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:01:01 +1300, Alan wrote:

    > Does OO have a different scripting language, or does it not support
    > automation at this stage?


    OOo has a scripting language.


    Have A Nice Cup of Tea

    --
    Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to Linux,
    and it does all the things that they want."
     
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, Mar 7, 2006
    #18
  19. Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    In article <dIdPf.43605$>, MarkH <> wrote:
    >David <> wrote in
    >news:tk9Pf.4484$:
    >
    >> Just tried oOo, and wasn't so sure about it. Sure, the interface isn't
    >> as pretty, but I don't mind that. What annoyed me was the general
    >> sluggishness (Office 2003 is way faster, both to load and to use).
    >> Certainly a valid alternative to Office, and will surely improve, and
    >> I would consider using it if I didn't already own Office 2003, but I
    >> think I'll uninstall it now.

    >
    >My experience is the same. oOo seems to be a perfectly good product
    >spoiled by very sluggish performance (both the Windows and the Linux
    >versions).


    I thought that too to start with. I think the "problem" is that it doesn't
    just load the spreadsheet or the word processor ... it loads all of it when
    you start it up. Try New/ <a different kind of document> and watch that open
    in a flash :)

    >I have used Office 95, 97, 2000, XP and 2003 - all run faster than oOo.
    >If the oOo speed can be improved to something similar to MS Office then I
    >would have no hesitation in recommending it to others.


    For the first document I agree ... for subsequent ones, OO is faster by a
    lot ... at least in my situation. :)



    Bruce

    ----------------------------------------
    I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good
    people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and
    only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.

    Lord Vetinari in Guards ! Guards ! - Terry Pratchett

    Caution ===== followups may have been changed to relevant groups
    (if there were any)
     
    Bruce Sinclair, Mar 8, 2006
    #19
  20. thing2

    Alan Guest

    Re: It may be easier and cheaper for MS Office users to migtrate to oOo than to Office12

    "Have A Nice Cup of Tea" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Wed, 08 Mar 2006 12:01:01 +1300, Alan wrote:
    >
    >> Does OO have a different scripting language, or does it not support
    >> automation at this stage?

    >
    > OOo has a scripting language.
    >
    >
    > Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    >
    > --
    > Jono Bacon: "I deal with companies every day that are moving over to
    > Linux,
    > and it does all the things that they want."
    >


    I figured it should. Does it use a standard language of some sort, or
    is it something created specifically for OO?

    Also, just out of interest, why do you abbreviate Open Office to OOo -
    what is the third 'O' for?

    Alan.

    --

    The views expressed are my own, and not those of my employer or anyone
    else associated with me.

    My current valid email address is:



    This is valid as is. It is not munged, or altered at all.

    It will be valid for AT LEAST one month from the date of this post.

    If you are trying to contact me after that time,
    it MAY still be valid, but may also have been
    deactivated due to spam. If so, and you want
    to contact me by email, try searching for a
    more recent post by me to find my current
    email address.

    The following is a (probably!) totally unique
    and meaningless string of characters that you
    can use to find posts by me in a search engine:

    ewygchvboocno43vb674b6nq46tvb
     
    Alan, Mar 8, 2006
    #20
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