IT CERTIFICATION

Discussion in 'MCSD' started by Christopher B. Crosby, Sep 10, 2003.

  1. When you become IT Certified in one or more areas, are
    you able to get a job with that certificate with out
    having 2 or more years of college experience? Or, do you
    need 2 or more years of college to get a job when you get
    IT certified?

    I am new to this and don't have all the facts but would
    like to learn more about this process.


    Christopher B. Crosby
     
    Christopher B. Crosby, Sep 10, 2003
    #1
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  2. Christopher B. Crosby

    emg Guest

    Well, never say never . . . . I can only speak to probabilities. There are
    always people who manage to get jobs where others fail.

    First, as to the value of certification. . . Most certs are from a specific
    vendor (MS, Cisco, Sun) and only have value to companies that are looking to
    fill positions that use that specific technology. Employers do not consider
    them "portable" to other technologies. Also, many employers have either
    given me blank stares or were openly derisive of certs so in those cases,
    the certification had no value whatsoever. Some companies do value the
    certification but usually experience is wanted as well. In a poor job
    market, where there are plenty of experienced candidates looking for work, a
    candidate with a cert and no experience will never win over a candidate with
    experience but no cert. (Unless he's the boss's nephew!)

    Second, as to the requirement for college . . . There's not a single answer
    to your question. There are many dimensions to consider. One is the size of
    the company. Most larger companies will not consider candidates without at
    least a 4-year bachelor's degree - - with or without certification. Smaller
    companies are sometimes less strict about this. And again, the state of the
    job market factors in. If there are plenty of candidates available with
    degrees, then not having one is a real disadvantage.

    I am not trying to discourage you - - you really have to get out there and
    start searching to learn the market conditions in your local area. It
    doesn't really matter if there are no jobs in California when you are
    job-hunting in Indiana.

    Best of Luck.



    "Christopher B. Crosby" <> wrote in message
    news:01b001c377bb$403c7700$...
    > When you become IT Certified in one or more areas, are
    > you able to get a job with that certificate with out
    > having 2 or more years of college experience? Or, do you
    > need 2 or more years of college to get a job when you get
    > IT certified?
    >
    > I am new to this and don't have all the facts but would
    > like to learn more about this process.
    >
    >
    > Christopher B. Crosby
     
    emg, Sep 10, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Agreed.

    One additional point - even if you get the job without the degree, you will
    hit a glass ceiling at some point in growing within the company.
    Those with the degree get to be Director of IT/VP of Technology.

    At a certain point, certifications do not matter any more; the college
    degree is what matters.

    Good luck to you.
    Davin Mickelson, MCSD.NET, MCSA, No college degree and feeling the sting
    after seven years in IT


    "emg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Well, never say never . . . . I can only speak to probabilities. There

    are
    > always people who manage to get jobs where others fail.
    >
    > First, as to the value of certification. . . Most certs are from a

    specific
    > vendor (MS, Cisco, Sun) and only have value to companies that are looking

    to
    > fill positions that use that specific technology. Employers do not

    consider
    > them "portable" to other technologies. Also, many employers have either
    > given me blank stares or were openly derisive of certs so in those cases,
    > the certification had no value whatsoever. Some companies do value the
    > certification but usually experience is wanted as well. In a poor job
    > market, where there are plenty of experienced candidates looking for work,

    a
    > candidate with a cert and no experience will never win over a candidate

    with
    > experience but no cert. (Unless he's the boss's nephew!)
    >
    > Second, as to the requirement for college . . . There's not a single

    answer
    > to your question. There are many dimensions to consider. One is the size

    of
    > the company. Most larger companies will not consider candidates without

    at
    > least a 4-year bachelor's degree - - with or without certification.

    Smaller
    > companies are sometimes less strict about this. And again, the state of

    the
    > job market factors in. If there are plenty of candidates available with
    > degrees, then not having one is a real disadvantage.
    >
    > I am not trying to discourage you - - you really have to get out there and
    > start searching to learn the market conditions in your local area. It
    > doesn't really matter if there are no jobs in California when you are
    > job-hunting in Indiana.
    >
    > Best of Luck.
    >
    >
    >
    > "Christopher B. Crosby" <> wrote in message
    > news:01b001c377bb$403c7700$...
    > > When you become IT Certified in one or more areas, are
    > > you able to get a job with that certificate with out
    > > having 2 or more years of college experience? Or, do you
    > > need 2 or more years of college to get a job when you get
    > > IT certified?
    > >
    > > I am new to this and don't have all the facts but would
    > > like to learn more about this process.
    > >
    > >
    > > Christopher B. Crosby

    >
    >
     
    Davin Mickelson, Sep 10, 2003
    #3
  4. Christopher B. Crosby

    Simon Guest

    > One additional point - even if you get the job without the degree, you
    > will
    > hit a glass ceiling at some point in growing within the company.
    > Those with the degree get to be Director of IT/VP of Technology.



    Not necessary. My wife, who has no degree, is director of IT business
    solutions within the company she has worked at for the past sixteen
    years. She sits on the board and the company's IT budget is about
    20(ish) million GBP.

    Any company worth their salt, promote people from within who have proved
    their ability, loyalty & commitment.

    Degrees are only important in order to gain entry into a profession.
    After that companies, when hiring, look at the experience and benefits a
    person can bring with them. This is the same in IT as well as other
    industries.

    Maybe it's somewhat different in the USA?

    Davin Mickelson wrote:

    > Agreed.
    >
    > One additional point - even if you get the job without the degree, you will
    > hit a glass ceiling at some point in growing within the company.
    > Those with the degree get to be Director of IT/VP of Technology.
    >
    > At a certain point, certifications do not matter any more; the college
    > degree is what matters.
    >
    > Good luck to you.
    > Davin Mickelson, MCSD.NET, MCSA, No college degree and feeling the sting
    > after seven years in IT
    >
    >
    > "emg" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    >>Well, never say never . . . . I can only speak to probabilities. There

    >
    > are
    >
    >>always people who manage to get jobs where others fail.
    >>
    >>First, as to the value of certification. . . Most certs are from a

    >
    > specific
    >
    >>vendor (MS, Cisco, Sun) and only have value to companies that are looking

    >
    > to
    >
    >>fill positions that use that specific technology. Employers do not

    >
    > consider
    >
    >>them "portable" to other technologies. Also, many employers have either
    >>given me blank stares or were openly derisive of certs so in those cases,
    >>the certification had no value whatsoever. Some companies do value the
    >>certification but usually experience is wanted as well. In a poor job
    >>market, where there are plenty of experienced candidates looking for work,

    >
    > a
    >
    >>candidate with a cert and no experience will never win over a candidate

    >
    > with
    >
    >>experience but no cert. (Unless he's the boss's nephew!)
    >>
    >>Second, as to the requirement for college . . . There's not a single

    >
    > answer
    >
    >>to your question. There are many dimensions to consider. One is the size

    >
    > of
    >
    >>the company. Most larger companies will not consider candidates without

    >
    > at
    >
    >>least a 4-year bachelor's degree - - with or without certification.

    >
    > Smaller
    >
    >>companies are sometimes less strict about this. And again, the state of

    >
    > the
    >
    >>job market factors in. If there are plenty of candidates available with
    >>degrees, then not having one is a real disadvantage.
    >>
    >>I am not trying to discourage you - - you really have to get out there and
    >>start searching to learn the market conditions in your local area. It
    >>doesn't really matter if there are no jobs in California when you are
    >>job-hunting in Indiana.
    >>
    >>Best of Luck.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>"Christopher B. Crosby" <> wrote in message
    >>news:01b001c377bb$403c7700$...
    >>
    >>>When you become IT Certified in one or more areas, are
    >>>you able to get a job with that certificate with out
    >>>having 2 or more years of college experience? Or, do you
    >>>need 2 or more years of college to get a job when you get
    >>>IT certified?
    >>>
    >>>I am new to this and don't have all the facts but would
    >>>like to learn more about this process.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Christopher B. Crosby

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     
    Simon, Sep 10, 2003
    #4
  5. Simon, it sounds like you have a lucky wife who has worked quite hard to get
    where she is at. Let's hope she never has to leave that company.

    It also appears that you are a lucky man, too.

    Thanks for your feedback.
    Davin Mickelson

    "Simon" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > One additional point - even if you get the job without the degree, you
    > > will
    > > hit a glass ceiling at some point in growing within the company.
    > > Those with the degree get to be Director of IT/VP of Technology.

    >
    >
    > Not necessary. My wife, who has no degree, is director of IT business
    > solutions within the company she has worked at for the past sixteen
    > years. She sits on the board and the company's IT budget is about
    > 20(ish) million GBP.
    >
    > Any company worth their salt, promote people from within who have proved
    > their ability, loyalty & commitment.
    >
    > Degrees are only important in order to gain entry into a profession.
    > After that companies, when hiring, look at the experience and benefits a
    > person can bring with them. This is the same in IT as well as other
    > industries.
    >
    > Maybe it's somewhat different in the USA?
    >
    > Davin Mickelson wrote:
    >
    > > Agreed.
    > >
    > > One additional point - even if you get the job without the degree, you

    will
    > > hit a glass ceiling at some point in growing within the company.
    > > Those with the degree get to be Director of IT/VP of Technology.
    > >
    > > At a certain point, certifications do not matter any more; the college
    > > degree is what matters.
    > >
    > > Good luck to you.
    > > Davin Mickelson, MCSD.NET, MCSA, No college degree and feeling the sting
    > > after seven years in IT
    > >
    > >
    > > "emg" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > >
    > >>Well, never say never . . . . I can only speak to probabilities. There

    > >
    > > are
    > >
    > >>always people who manage to get jobs where others fail.
    > >>
    > >>First, as to the value of certification. . . Most certs are from a

    > >
    > > specific
    > >
    > >>vendor (MS, Cisco, Sun) and only have value to companies that are

    looking
    > >
    > > to
    > >
    > >>fill positions that use that specific technology. Employers do not

    > >
    > > consider
    > >
    > >>them "portable" to other technologies. Also, many employers have either
    > >>given me blank stares or were openly derisive of certs so in those

    cases,
    > >>the certification had no value whatsoever. Some companies do value the
    > >>certification but usually experience is wanted as well. In a poor job
    > >>market, where there are plenty of experienced candidates looking for

    work,
    > >
    > > a
    > >
    > >>candidate with a cert and no experience will never win over a candidate

    > >
    > > with
    > >
    > >>experience but no cert. (Unless he's the boss's nephew!)
    > >>
    > >>Second, as to the requirement for college . . . There's not a single

    > >
    > > answer
    > >
    > >>to your question. There are many dimensions to consider. One is the

    size
    > >
    > > of
    > >
    > >>the company. Most larger companies will not consider candidates without

    > >
    > > at
    > >
    > >>least a 4-year bachelor's degree - - with or without certification.

    > >
    > > Smaller
    > >
    > >>companies are sometimes less strict about this. And again, the state of

    > >
    > > the
    > >
    > >>job market factors in. If there are plenty of candidates available with
    > >>degrees, then not having one is a real disadvantage.
    > >>
    > >>I am not trying to discourage you - - you really have to get out there

    and
    > >>start searching to learn the market conditions in your local area. It
    > >>doesn't really matter if there are no jobs in California when you are
    > >>job-hunting in Indiana.
    > >>
    > >>Best of Luck.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>"Christopher B. Crosby" <> wrote in message
    > >>news:01b001c377bb$403c7700$...
    > >>
    > >>>When you become IT Certified in one or more areas, are
    > >>>you able to get a job with that certificate with out
    > >>>having 2 or more years of college experience? Or, do you
    > >>>need 2 or more years of college to get a job when you get
    > >>>IT certified?
    > >>>
    > >>>I am new to this and don't have all the facts but would
    > >>>like to learn more about this process.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> Christopher B. Crosby
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >

    >
     
    Davin Mickelson, Sep 11, 2003
    #5
  6. Christopher B. Crosby

    Roy Lawson Guest

    You need a college education (at least 4yr if you want to
    be an engineer/programmer. 2 years for technician).
    There is no two ways about it. Sure some old-timers might
    have been able to work things out without one, but
    employers expect more now.

    A degree in CS or IS won't give you much in terms of
    product specific training. That is where vendor training
    and IT certification comes in. The degree will give you a
    more broad understanding of the technology and enable you
    to understand the bigger picture.

    It is all about balance. Get the degree. Get a job.
    Work on certifications. Gain experience, make yourself
    valuable to the company, learn everything you can, and
    provide for your family. Anyone who would suggest you not
    get a degree is steering you in the wrong direction.

    I know, I tried myself to fight the uphill battle without
    a degree. I am glad that I decided to go back to college
    and get one.

    -Roy Lawson


    >-----Original Message-----
    >When you become IT Certified in one or more areas, are
    >you able to get a job with that certificate with out
    >having 2 or more years of college experience? Or, do you
    >need 2 or more years of college to get a job when you get
    >IT certified?
    >
    >I am new to this and don't have all the facts but would
    >like to learn more about this process.
    >
    >
    > Christopher B. Crosby
    >.
    >
     
    Roy Lawson, Sep 25, 2003
    #6
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